The joke
The joke makes itself
(George W. Bush)
Who makes up the bread in this Bush sandwich? Tell us in the Comments
Picture by: dunno source Caption by: Nick via Our LOL Builder
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Ok, so once again they recycled a joke that is older than the average Kindergärtner. *Sigh* And I do seem to recall that the image is photoshopped.
Come on people. There are a lot funnier, and certainly a lot more relevant things to make LOLz about.
yes, but sadly this is still more funny than 90% of “LOLs” making it to the front page lately.
I made a LOL about GW that’s not mean or snarky, but THIS old, reused tired one gets here, and mine never even goes up for voting. I has a sad. Look at it and tell me what you guys think, please!
{http://cheezburger.com/View.aspx?aid=2802034432}
Could have been worse…could have been another EWAdams “LOL”. And I used the term “LOL” very loosely there.
Not bad.
I think I saw that picture with the caption “Anatomy FAIL.”
sorry, i dont even get your lol.
Everyone has their hand over their hearts, and he’s got his over his stomach XD
I thought it was funny.
yeah, it took me a minute or two of serious thinking (which is an unusual practice on this site) to get it
You can’t complain about the LOLs that show up here, unless you all go to vote massively against them.
We do.
Everyone proceed.
I never vote anymore, and I still complain…
But those funnier and more relevant things are more and more dealing with the Chosen One, but the Powers That Be of PK aren’t going to tarnish his image by posting that sort of stuff, so we’re stuck with stale jokes of Dubya.
SILENCE! I KEEL YOU
Well, *grumble grumble* they do seem to be censoring stuff people submit, you know. Grrr.
I thought what they did to your LOL was pretty lame actually. It was mean, but it was FUNNY.
I was more referring to the “Chosen one” troll remark.
You mean now the comments are going to be censored too?
No, but the troll comments, no matter what the political leaning, are going to be made fun of.
I think we should be able to say whatever we want in here, to balance out the extreme bias in the lols that get to the front page, but that’s just me…
The idea is to discourage, not censor the kind of knucklehead bashing that serves no actual point.
Justa, I want to give you a big Man hug. CMERE YOU!
MAX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *tacklehugsnugglesqueezeslobberlove*
They’re already filtered. You can’t say “v1codin” for some weird reason. Or fvck. But you can say “assclown”. Heh.
And you can say dicksniffer!
Piss?
Hmm. Cocksucker?
Lol…unsurprisingly, motherfvcker is also caught by the filter. And finally, and without further ado:
TITS!
Should they ever censor tits then I don’t want to be a PK regular anymore!
V I C O D I N
As in, I NEED V I C O D I N
I just ROOOOOOFL’ed!
That doesn’t say much about you. Actually, it says worlds about you.
me too… if it’s old and/or photoshopped, I never saw it before.
If I haven’t seen it, it’s new to me.
The guy on the left is the former Swedish prime minister Göran Persson… not sure on the other one though.
The fat guy is the ex prime minister of Sweden, Göran Persson.
Not sure if this one is real though.
Soooo- The Dems get their rear ends spanked red in the recent election, so we get a bombardment of Bush-Cheney-Palin LOL’s ????
SILENCE! I KEEL YOU!
Spanked? I wouldn’t go that far. NY-23 ring any bells? That weird guy with the personality of wallpaper paste (Howard?) was HEAVILY endorsed by the right (Palin, Beck, Hannity et al) yet he lost, and that was after forcing the moderate republican out of the race! The playing field is still heavily blue. You’re listening to Faux News and CHUGGING that kool-ade. Ease up on it, or you’ll need a 12 step program!
That woman was no moderate republican.
Corzine. The governor was John Corzine, not Anybody Cornin. Sorry, don’t know where my head is.
An independent almost beat a Democrat without the backing of the Republican party. And that was after the RINO (Republican in name only) dropped out and endorsed the Democrat (showing her true colors). Funny, liberals want to point to NY-23 to prove that the country is still behind a liberal agenda, but want to play down the other races in which conservatives swept the state, like Virginia where all the seats went to Republicans. Keep in mind that Obama won Virginia with a 53% majority a year ago.
For the record, I’m neither a Republican nor a Democrat, but even I can see that the nation is regretting putting so many Democrats in office. Having any party that wants to push through legislation without any bipartisanship is worrisome and deserves a reaction like the one that happened Tuesday.
“liberals want to point to NY-23 to prove that the country is still behind a liberal agenda,”
Actually, the liberal pundits I’ve been reading point to NY-23 as evidence that, even in a district that hasn’t voted in a Democrat since the civil war, the Republicans can’t win if the right wing nuts decide to split from the more moderate wing of the Republican party. Personally, I’d be much obliged if you didn’t tell Sarah Palin or Mike Huckabee; the more they do to split the conservative base, the happier I’ll be.
But the problem is that the government is compromised. High councils of the President are working with the terrorists and the situation will escalate unless we get a hold on that CIP device!
Huckabee and Palin pretty much carry the banner for the hard line right wing of the Republican party. You’re right, they won’t be the voices to pull everyone together, because they alienate anyone that doesn’t fall in line with their Evangelical Christian Zionist view of conservatism.
I’m not sorry you don’t recognize a small government, anti tax, pro gun rights legislator as being a Republican, just because she is also pro-marriage equality and against forced pregnancy. The more we can do to keep your party split, the more you will get to ride the “Democratic Election Roller Coaster” that I’ve watched the last twenty years. Maybe we can lure some of the less lunatic of your party away into a responsible conservative party. Here’s hoping!
LMAO: Today, Limbaugh is blaming the loss in NY-23 on Newt Gingrich.
“Forced pregnancy?” Is that what people are calling abortion (the induced expulsion of a human fetus) these days? “Forced pregnancy” sounds more like rape. OH! I see what you’re doing there! You’re trying to make it sound like it’s okay for women to kill their babies by insinuating that they must have all been raped – therefore the murder of an innocent child is “okay.” Nice try. Better luck next time.
“Forced pregnancy?” Is that what people are calling abortion (the induced expulsion of a human fetus) these days?
Erm, no. We call that abortion. Forced pregnancy would imply that one DIDN’T have an abortion, and carried the child to term. Better luck next time.
I don’t want to get into this with you, but it’s a very loaded term with some pretty significant connotations, so you should probably expect to pick fights with it. I’m just saying.
I wasn’t picking a fight, I was explaining the inconsistency in his statement. What did I say that was incendiary?
It’s using the term “forced pregnancy” — in my observation, tends to be something of a loaded term for placing restrictions on abortion.
You’ve missed the LOL factor in all this. Forced pregnancy means you DON’T get to have an abortion. I was pointing out that the OP was saying “Forced pregnancy is abortionz!!” See the funneh now?
Oh, no, hon, I got that. It actually was kind of a funny misunderstanding.
LMAO I totally didn’t see that the first time around! Good catch!
Thank The Flying Spaghetti Monster YOU got it! Diss thinks I was trying to start another abortion argument! I was just laughing at the frother, I swear! LOL
Aw, I didn’t think you were trying to, I just thought you might have inadvertently set one off.
If I have to watch every little thing I type, and worry about someone getting all butthurt, this place will be NO fun what-so-ever. Nope, I’m not going to stop pointing out stupidity. Nope nope nope.
I’ve found people that WANT to get butthurt WILL, no matter what you say. So I say give them some preparation H and hope to god they know NOT to take it orally.
I’m with you here Ivan (etc).
“Forced pregnancy” to me immediately meant the exact opposite: that you’re made to carry a pregnancy through whether you want to or not. Which to me is more repugnant than almost anything else I can think of at the moment. It is sexual slavery at its absolute worst.
Include me in on that view too.
Same here. I keep thinking about “A Handmaid’s Tale”.
Oooo…really good story, but really creepy.
Ditto Zeli’s remarks, and if using the term ‘forced pregnancy’ upsets the anti-abortionists, it’s only because they refuse to acknowledge that that IS the inevitable outcome of their stated desire to ban abortion.
I second that. Screw the minority and get those laws we need passed.
But you said you WERE a man for the minority. Oh, I see. Only the minority that supports what you want in life.
No I’m not. I am a man -for- the majority. The minority are the extremely wealthy. I am against them. I guess since they both end in “ority” you got confused. Its understandible… i mean… considering its you.
I am a man for the sorority. I am also against them whenever possible. Real close against them.
giggidy!
Consider how you dance around words, no wonder you didn’t understand what I said. If you lie out of both sides of your mouth anymore, you will make a good politician.
It’s pretty easy to tell when you don’t have an honest answer. You default to insults.
So its my fault you don’t know what you are talking about? I think everyone on this page knows my feelings on the majority and the minority. You were just looking for a quick way to put in an insult, and you failed.
No, you were talking out of both sides of your mouth. You earlier stated how much you were for the minority, then later state how you are for the majority.
got a link for me? I challenge your claim. Otherwise, i stand that you are a fool.
Go back and read it for yourself. Just in the same day. Never mind the last few weeks. And no, I don’t have a clue how to generate a link to your individual comments. Nor would I care. No matter what name calling you resort to, or how much you declare how great you are, I’m not impressed. Nor am I the only one.
Quote it then. I’ll believe you if you are honest. Just copy and past. Piece of cake. Please. I would love to see that sentence. But since its not there, you can’t. So…. you suck.
Hint, go back a page, where everyone was sick of your ideals about crime….
Keep flinging the childish insults. They show everyone who you are.
See, the cut and paste thing, it can be faked. As little as I know about HTML, I know that.
Its still not there man. -This- is the lol i was talking about the criminal justice system. Its not there. And who is the multitude you keep talking about? All these people with you? Can’t you get all that army of silent followers to help you find just one little quote? Looks like you have painted yourself back into a corner and have no way out. Ask yourself this though. If I had called you on something that you demand you didn’t say, do you think i would hesitate to hit control F on each lol till I found it? Just to show you how full of sh*t you are? Oh you know I would. And I would revel in my sweet victory. But since you won’t be able to find one, I suppose the agony of defeat will have to suffice for you.
You mean the agony of your whining? Not at all. And there were several people telling you about it on the crime issues. Go back over 300+ comments and look. But of course you wont. You simply want to gloat. Falsely at that.
Oh, and the silent people? They aren’t so silent. Just not so outspoken where you can read it.
So, go ahead. Fling the baseless insults. Whine some more. Then whine again. Continue to whine.
Ignore your earlier comments, try to hide behind looking for an exact quote that you may or may not be able to discredit. Your sentiment and what you said about the minority is here.
I am not whining. I am laughing. Laughing at you, because you got caught by me, and it must be killing you. I am also not gloating, just laughing. And if you will just admit you made a mistake in saying I said that, I will be glad to let it go. Everyone makes mistakes, even me. But not on the majority versus the minority. And from here you look pretty alone. Just back peddling as hard as you can. Just quit trying to get that one last insult in, and let it go.
Not to interrupt the pissing contest, but out of curiosity I did do a ctrl-f search for “minority” and this is the only page it’s even used on recently, and only in this particular conversation, starting with VNV saying “screw the minority” here. So….I’m stumped. Fvck it, I’m going to go cook dinner.
Really, you have been the one slinging insults all day. Laugh at yourself. You WERE going on about the minority, and how you defend them.
And no one else wants to deal with the usual whine storm you start anytime someone doesn’t bow to your propaganda. EVERY single time. And it IS talked about in places. Even here in this lol today.
Go ahead. Call me some more names. Make false boats about how wonderful you are. Stroke you ego. We know you need it.
Thanks for looking diss. You had better believe I checked to make sure I hadn’t accidentally put anything about a minority before I started egging justa on. It is sort of a pissing contest, but I have so enjoyed watching him try to maintain his stance.
@justa
Maybe this one will be easier. Go find a quote of some kind where I say how wonderful I am, or even that I am personally any better than anyone else. That ain’t there either.
Don’t be so blue panda bear. I’m sure you get me good tomorrow just because of how much a heckled you about your misfire tonight.
Not at all. Tomorrow is another day. And I don’t think I ever stated “WORD FOR WORD QUOTE” as you seem to be looking for. And there is no way I can find all the quotes from today. I don’t have that much time to read all the posts you made today.
By the way. Thanks. Now I know how to do a search on the page. Problem is, you have to remember EXACTLY the proper spelling, or more than a word. And I am too busy an old fart to mess with this thing all day. As it is, I need to spend time with my kids before bed.
Well…. since I do love what I write, and I love reading what I write, I went back and pulled together all of my worthwhile statements of the day. Read them. You may just thank me some day.
“The Rich Get Richer and the Poor Get Prison”
“Got to steal to eat. Got to eat to live.”
“the amount of money you have changes your ability to do whatever you want, even when it comes to committing crimes”
“Be the voice for those who can’t be heard!”
“I am blaming the structure of our entire society.”
“The cycle of poverty is real.”
“School Funding Bases on Property Tax Fail.”
“Fu(k land I’m on a Boat motherfu(ker!”
“the only true justice is divine justice”
“I think instead of prison or capital punishment that these individuals should be treated as patients”
“A culture that does nothing but emphasize material gains is bad”
“I blame society and want to protect the victims”
“we punish them for having the same obsession with materialism as the rest of us”
“systems at work that are seemingly beyond our control that are hurting millions of people”
“I have no take over the world plans”
“the people I like -are- the vast majority of people on earth”
“And because I said I want to help poor people I am bragging?”
“I am a wage slave”
“all certain groups of people do is blame those in poverty for being in poverty”
“Sometimes they did fail the murderer”
“I think everyone has to make a choice”
“We could blame the universe if we want to”
Odd. I heard what you wrote in Rush Limbaugh’s voice. Change the politics, and you 2 are birds of a feather.
I prefer the term “popular tribune”.
Er, in danger of looking just a WEE bit pompous there, VNV..
I will say this: If Rush ever said “F*ck land I’m on a boat motherf*cker!” I might just start to like him a teensy weensy bit.
VNV if you can find me on ICHC.
Having any party that wants to push through legislation without any bipartisanship is worrisome”
What’s been ‘pushed through’? If the Dems were willing to push things through, we would have had a health care reform bill months ago.
And Hoffman was an independent only on the ballot. (Guess that makes him an IINO.) He is a Republican and was stumped for by all the current Republican bib names — Palin, Huckabee, all of them.
And for the record, I never watch Fox News (and I hate MSNBC as well), and I heard nothing but speculation yesterday about what the election results mean for Democrats and the White House. Everyone was reporting on it, not just Fox News.
How do you know Fox wasn’t reporting on it, when you never watch Fox?
Because Ivan just told him it did.
Read carefully. I didn’t say Fox News wasn’t reporting on it. Quite the opposite.
Ivan implied that only Fox News was reporting on it, and I corrected him…everyone was (that I heard). CNN and NPR namely.
I implied no such thing. I said that the OP was drinking Fox Kool-ade. Correct THIS *grabs crotch*
You are SUCH a wonderful Atheist! So open minded, loving, compassionate. So tolerant of other’s point of view.
Just like you, christian!
Really? You mean how I put up with your insults to my faith at every chance you get? It’s one thing to disagree, another to bash the way you do.
Knock it off, you two. Either avoid one another, or act like adults.
And don’t give me a “he started it by insulting me.” Just STOP IT. Be the bigger person (whichever one of you) and STOP IT.
^^^^ …Yeah. What she said. Except I’d add VNV’s interactions with JAC to the list. We can argue points and we can disagree without resorting to ad hominem and namecalling.
If we were all in a room together instead of on the internet I’d sarcastically suggest that the three of you just whip ‘em out and measure. Sheesh.
At least I’d like to think we can.
If we were in a room together instead of on the internet I’d be handing out a lot of donkey punches to remind people they’re acting like little bitches.
Will you be supervising the measuring? And will there be pictures?
Eat me, fu(kweasel. And stop following me around. You weren’t even in the conversation, then you had to throw out an insult that had nothing to do with the conversation. You’re getting all stalker-y and creepy now.
Uh, dude. You popped up about 30 minutes ago attacking me on the page before this one. Then came here with the insults. I basically repeated YOUR words, as an example of how you treat others.
Eat me, fu(kweasel.
JAC and Ivan… act like the adults i know you both are. you’re not going to get along on this one. just walk away from it. quit pissing each other off.
Do you eat with that mouth?
fu(kweasel… lol.. i’ll have to remember that
It’s copyrighted, so you’ll have to pay me royalties. Standard is a pitcher of Stoli & lemonade, but any alcoholic beverage is ok. But stick to the top shelf stuff.
justa is about a Christian as the Devil himself. You are wasting your time. He is one of those “christians” that can say he is a christian for arguments sake, and then act completely different with the way he behaves. You best bet is to just ignore him, or he will find a way to troll you and add insults to whatever you may be talking about under the veil of “not picking”. Waste of time really.
I think you’ll find that JAC is a principled man, meaning that he acts in accordance with his belief system, not that he agrees with mine or yours. He’s too prickly on the subject of Christianity, but other than that, a decent conservative.
And I disagree with just about everything he believes in.
THIS ^^^^^^ Except for the last line, but I think we all knew that, lol.
I disagree with your disagreeing with Mark’s last line froo!
Well, not that I am picking on him, but his principles suck. Just being honest.
A LOT of people think the same about yours. Your point?
Oh. My point was that you, as a person, an internet entity, or just as a monkey that has somehow managed to use sign language to type on PK, suck. Thats all.
There goes your kool aid. Again.
More taste less filling. Doesn’t make you suck less, however. Maybe if you shared some of your hateraid with me?
You are such a sweet heart.
I know.
Thank you. Even for what we don’t agree on.
Strewth! Just when we’ve got a relatively troll-free day the regulars are stomping all over each other.
That’s how it goes. JAC loves to rabble-rouse. If you don’t agree with him, he’ll be all over YOU too.
Actually, I’m enjoying the mental image of JAC dressed like Errol Flynn, sword-fighting VNV and Eric(etc) on the left, on the right, leaping up on a table, swinging from the overhead candelabra-thing, landing on the staircase and being attacked from behind by random, rapier-wielding PK-ers.
But that just might be my general Errol Flynn fantasy kicking in…
Oh yes Ivan, like you never speak up. You love to make it out like I’m a rabble rouser, when you are just as opinionated as I am.
*blink blink* Washington’s a swing state? Wish I’d known. Maybe I would’ve actually thought my vote counted then.
They’re very liberal in the hundred miles or so around Seattle, and very conservative everywhere else. Fiscally, the conservatives have been running the initiative process for the last twenty years; this was the first time, in my memory anyway, that Washington defeated a proposition that limited taxes.
Ok, I’ll grant you that they were very gungho for initiatives for the past decade or so. But the very liberal population in the greater Puget Sound area makes up about 60% of the populace of the state, so when it comes to national issues, it’s very rarely considered “swing” from what I’ve seen from the national news. Maybe I’m wrong, though. That’s probable, even. =-D
When dealing with the electoral college and the districts though, I’m sure it evens out to a “swing”
Max, I would swing with you and Jane…
Nope, we do it all the time. We got burned on the one that limited the yearly car tabs fee, and we’ve been defeating them ever since. There’s a guy named Tim Eyman who is behind most of them, and we have learned to our sorrow that anything he backs we need to defeat, and we do.
Funny how that happens everytime in here. Obama and his policies are failing, I think that’s pretty funny myself! Bye bye left wing socialism! Glad we didn’t get a chance to know ya!
What is failing exactly?
Yeah, I’m waiting for the same answer. So come on, libby. What is failing? Answer, or you will henceforth be labeled a troll.
i thought she already was…
*pst* you forgot the “/snark”.
Dude, did I really need it? LOL
Erm…hmm…I see your point.
I feel his point.. and I need a band aid… I cut myself.
Darn.. the Errol Flynn fantasy again.. feeling the point of his slashing rapier….
*sigh*
Economy actually is not getting better. The American dollar is crashing to the point OPEC is thinking of using the Euro to gauge Oil Prices. If that happens our gas prices will sky rocket to about $5 a gallon. That’ll REALLY help our economy. I love that “job loss rates are slowing”, however there are still job losses, when unemployment is at about 10% and still losing jobs, the economy is not getting better. The world view of America has not gotten “better”. France thinks we’re pussies on IRan, Iran is pursuing a second nuclear facility, N. Korea is testing more long range missles, the Israelis are scared that America won’t support them, IRaq is getting worse, same with Afghanastan. Obama couldn’t even get past the first round of cuts for the Olympics. No the rest of world doesn’t see us as “better” just weaker.
Let’s not forget about pushing a Health Care plan that has less than 50% support. Obama’s approval rating dropped from 76% down to 50%. Look at what happened in VA and NJ.
And us losing the Olympics had nothing to do with Obama, his administration. It did have to do with the bribery and lies surrounding the Salt Lake City Olympics and the pretty bad Atlanta Olympics. It certainly didn’t help our bid having Richard Daley as mayor, a corrupt s.o.b. (and EVERYBODY knows it) who wanted the Olympics here because he’s run out of pockets in to which he can stick his fingers. And finally, the IOC has been at war with the USOC recently: the USOC decided that they had every right to start up an Olympic cable channel without getting permission from the IOC. So, if you want to blame anybody for the loss of the bid, blame the USOC, who believe that they’re above the rules set by the IOC and can do pretty much WETFTW.
Are you SERIOUSLY using the Olympics as a measuring stick for Presidential approval? Because if so any credibility you MIGHT have had would be shot imo. Btw, I don’t know how far NYC made it, but, ah, Bush ‘lost’ and Olympics too.
Can we get them to filter out people who use any of the -isms (socialism, fascism, etc) without knowing what they mean?
And don’t know about you all, but my mutual fund was in the toliet about a year and a half ago and now looks pretty dang good again! So what’s failing for YOU?
Same with my pension scheme. Thing is, the share price recovery may just be temporary, so I’ve heard. Anyway if Obama could solve the economy in just a year he’d be up for a sainthood as well as a Nobel prize.
For real, I loved how my 401K has doubled since APRIL when I was eligible to enroll in it. Everyone at the company told me I was stupid for putting into it so early when everything was in the dumps, and now I just sit back and smile.
This is what I was like when the economy tanked on my 401K. Now it’s all better
)http://cheezburger.com/View.aspx?aid=1828197632(
I’m new, but let me hazard a wild guess — not an American? Or a transplant? We have pension PLANS; scheme is very similar to scam here (in meaning).
“Here” of course meaning US; is there another ‘here’? /sarcasm
Yay! Let’s try right wing socialism.
Because libbytroll forgot how well THAT worked before. Yay, Hitler!! /snark
Three posts into this thread and my eyes glazed over…
Still up to her old tricks, but hasn’t monica lewinski let herself go?
*snerk*
*snort* Now THAT would have been a real ROFLOL caption.
If I had a nickel every time I saw this picture on here….
You could buy the site and start posting FUNNY, RELEVANT, and INTERESTING LOLz.
Hi everyone,
since I (unluckily) live in Italy I can tell you the guy on the right is our ex prime minister, Romano Prodi (the guy who won 2 times against Berlusconi). Just wanted to add that you should consider yourself lucky to live in a country where you can mock your politicians… Here no one dares to do that (maybe ‘cos most of the time the politicians fail so hard there isn’t even the possibility to make jokes).
But the trains run on time! Ok, ok. Sorry for that.
Thanks for the nice comment. Something a lot of people don’t appreciate.
Thanks for the appreciation
I’ve “been” on the Interwebs for 11 years but this was my first comment ever! Maybe I’m too lazy (like a typical Italian, always laying in the sun, drinking coffee and wearing big dark shades!).
It sounds like Italians DO know how to live!
damn, I’m moving to italy.
Your comment above has been noted and one of my people will be round to discuss it with you shortly.
Its not like mocking them does any good. And frankly, its really sad that we have mostly politicians that do little more than provide us with lols, jokes, and SNL skits. The time of being proud of our leadership is over. I will researve judgement for Obama until his first term is over, but I have a feeling like when he leaves in 4 to 8 years, our country will still be filled with materialistic wage slaves, and little else. But heres to hoping!
Good point! However, there’s one thing I think works in USA and not in Italy: justice. As I fear you already know, our good ol’ (he’s 72!!!) prime minister tried to modify our Constitution by forging a law that would allow him and 3 other people (the President and the two chiefs of the Parliament) to be exempted from any kind of judgment. Casually, he has many proceedings pending. How can you make jokes about that? It just makes me sad.
I’d need to know more about the details of the proposed law.
In the USA, you can’t bring suit against the incumbent president, but there is a legal process whereby he can be forced to stand down if you have a strong suit against him.
Believe me (i’m from Italy too) and Val Berlusconi should be in jail from long time… and how Val told you he did a lot of stupid things, but he wont let the TV stations show them, to bad that most of Italians don’t care about what happens around them (not all) as long as nothing bad happens to them(as single person). Anyways the picture looks like it’s made in photo shop!
And about the law:
“The Lodo Alfano (roughly “Alfano Law”), named after Berlusconi’s Minister of Justice Angelino Alfano, was a law, valid between 2008 and 2009, granting immunity from prosecution to the four highest political offices in Italy (the President of the Republic, the two Speakers of the Houses of Parliament and the Prime Minister). It was widely criticized as a copy of the Lodo Schifani, declared unconstitutional in 2004, and aims mostly at stopping trials involving Silvio Berlusconi. The Lodo Alfano was declared unconstitutional by the Italian Constitutional Court in October 2009.”
Ok, that’s fair then. As I say, I was questioning the lack of detail over what he was trying to do. The point of the US idea is not to protect the incumbent from prosecution, but to protect the probity of the post, and prevent it being filled by someone who defending a law suit rather than governing the nation.
Justice? Here? I think you are mistaken. Our justice system is screwed. There is an interesting book by Jeffrey Reiman called The Rich Get Richer and the Poor Get Prison: Ideology, Class, and Criminal Justice. I recommend checking it out. It basically makes the pretty compelling argument that our justice system is designed to put poor people in prison while white collar crimes in America, which cost way more money and lives, are virtually ignored. And lets nor forget that Bush lied to all of us to go to war under false pretenses and was never brought to any kind of justice. The worst he got was a few lol’s. So… justice may not be working in Italy, but it certainly isn’t working here.
Actually, I don’t think this is true. Bernie Madoff is in prison. Even Martha Stewart went to prison a while back. Mind you, it was nice prison.
The Enron people went to prison. Inside traders often go to prison.
That is a very small percentage of punishment vs white collar crime being comitted. You are talking about 20 people when there are hundreds of people comitting thousands of crimes.
Arguably, that’s influenced in part by public opinion — the average guy on the street is far more concerned about imprisoning somebody who’s criminal activities have a more immediate and obvious effect on his person, property, or general well-being (burglars, muggers, car thieves, rapists, murderers) than some guy who did something illegal on paper with money that he doesn’t understand or see how it ultimately effects him. The laws, drafted and approved by Mr. Average-guy’s elected representatives, reflect this to some extent.
I would agree, however, that the criminal judicial system is a freakin’ mess.
The average guy on the street has been lied to for some time. Our society wants you to be afraid of the black mugger. Not the white guy speculating your retirement away. Ironically, I believe that the black mugger was a victim of the system before you were a victim of him. If that same white guy speculating your retirement hadn’t have shut down his factory to move overseas, that mugger might still have a job, and taking you watch may not be the thing keeping him fed.
Got to steal to eat. Got to eat to live. Otherwise we get along.
To some extent; but I still think the key is that people are more concerned about less abstract and more immediate issues. The difference between “Mr X committed an insider trading crime which may eventually in some way effect your 401K” is easier for people to ignore than “Mr X just broke your car window and ignition switch and drove off in your car; enjoy walking home!” It’s the same way people (in general) will get more worked up over the fact that their neighbor hasn’t mowed his lawn in a month than over a multinational corporation clearcutting in the rainforest…
Also, as regards your victim of the system theory, when I get sent over to represent somebody at their presentence interview I’m very often amazed at their utter lack of any redeeming characteristics or evidence that they’ve EVER made any effort in life — we’re talking here about the guys who start getting in trouble as juveniles (usually starting with assault and vandalism, moving up to drug/gun crimes or robberies) and who have either never held a real job or their work record is like: “Well, I got a job at Captain D’s, I was there for 3 months, but I got fired for not showing up to work…”
Now, here’s the puzzler — a lot of times, these guys will have siblings raised by the same parents, in the same environment, who graduated from high school, got jobs, got married, and didn’t become criminals — what do you see as the difference?
Ok. Sorry for the delay. I got bombarded by responses and this one got lost. I would say that statistically speaking, that’s the exception and not the rule. As far as specific cases it could be anything. Personal mental problems, family problems, trill seeking, peer pressure, or societal impact could have affected them in different ways. I think each family in that situation has a story, and only by looking at a case by case example could we really know what might have caused it. I bet sometimes the criminal is just that, a criminal. But sometimes, there may be more at work than we know.
I think a criminal is never “just a criminal”. Heck it even depends on the century, or even decade, you live in. Something can be considered a crime a some point in time, and years later noone could even understand that it once was one. Morals change, society changes etc. A criminal can just as well be someone who doesn’t fit into the “norm” imposed on him.
I think I was arguing that point earlier.
Yup Keith, that’s how my nation (Australia) was born.
Sydney* was a place to send those evil abhorrent folk who..(gasp).. stole bread to feed their family when they weren’t allowed to work (eg women, paupers, etc), fought off a sexual affront from one of their “betters” .. or committed one of any number of “crimes” in which these days they’d be seen as the victim, not the perpetrator. The soldiers who policed it all operated on a loose system of rum, favours and bribery.
The whole colony was forged from people who didn’t fit the norm. And I think we turned out okay in the end, didn’t we?
(* sorry Tasmanians and all who were omitted for reasons of brevity)
@Zeli – “And I think we turned out okay in the end, didn’t we?”
Massive understatement! I think you turned out pretty damn fantastic! Aussies are some of my favorite people on the planet and have one of the most beautiful countries.
How about a wish or two or three?
That doesn’t wash bearing in mind the vast numbers incarcerated for minor drug related offenses. They aren’t there for public safety.
How is that not for public safety?
This isn’t Talledaga Nights. There not all walking around being NICE drug dealers. Most of the time the cops want to get them for something else but the DA’s want the guaranteed conviction so they get them on another drug charge.
I don’t have statistics to hand, but I’d be willing to bet that a LARGE percentage of your drug boys in federal custody aren’t actually in on drug charges at all, but on a 922(g) (felon in possession of a firearm). Not terribly relevant, but it’s something a lot of people aren’t aware of and kinda interesting. One thing is for sure — close to all of these guys getting busted for drugs (and I’m not talking about the kids getting a misdemeanor possession rap, I’m talking about the guys who are dealing) are armed, and about as likely to give up carrying as the most hardcore NRA member.
That -is- very interesting diss. However, I have to say that protecting ones self, especially in certain professions, like drug dealing, often requires a firearm. Its not like they have insurance or security cameras.
Well, yeah, that’s pretty much what they say when they get caught…there’s a certain level of amazement that anyone would actually expect them to leave the house unarmed.
If i was driving a car with 20k worth of cocaine in the trunkl I would be strapped. And that is no joke.
The legal system does everything it can to keep people out of prison whether rich or poor. The only crime you are going to go straight to prison for is rape or murder or maybe drugs if you have a whole trunk full. Most people get every opportunity to stay out of prison and they screw it up. They are given probation to keep them out of prison and then THEY violate their probation conditions and go to prison.
Let’s say you are poor and you get arrested for battery. Let’s say you were trying to stop a bar fight and got arrested anyway. You get probation. You have to pay -loads- of fines as well as a sum every month. What happens if you can’t afford to pay it? You go back to jail. What happens if you have to finish your probation in jail. When you get out, you have no money, if you were renting, you have no apartment and you also have no belongings because the apartment probably threw them away. Now that you have nothing, is your potential of crime increased or decreased?
Now on the other hand. Let’s say you are wealthy. You start the bar fight. You get assault. You pay for a good lawyer. You get it lowered to misdemeanor battery. You pay all your fees and probation up front. Now all you have to do is behave for a year.
This is fair?
Two people should be able to fight as long as they aren’t bothering you. Learn to mind your own business.
That liberal right?
I think you missed the point, which was the amount of money you have changes your ability to do whatever you want, even when it comes to committing crimes. The deck is stacked against a huge portion of society. And in America, we like it like that. Or should I say, many like it that way.
The smiley face indicated a joke bro.
I know. We’re cool. I wasn’t sassing you.
We have public defenders for cases like that and it’s absolutely free o charge.
Ever had a public defender? They are literally in the business of convincing people to plea bargin, which means admitting guilt. Not a very good system at all.
Well that’s exactly how socialism works, now if you want a really good lawyer you have to pay for his/her efforts. Either you pay or the government pays, what other options are there?
(I switched back to my personal laptop, thus the change of icon)
VNV….one problem with your argument — most of the public defender’s defendants are dead-to-rights guilty. I help out on some appointed federal criminal defense work, and 99% of these guys are just….well, they’re very, very guilty. Hell, they’ll admit it! So beyond working to ensure that in the process of arresting and convicting the person their constitutional rights are protected, what exactly would you suggest the public defenders DO? The defendant gets less prison time for a plea than if he goes to trial, so it’s generally in their best interest.
I think he what he may be arguing is that if you have money AND are guilty, you have a better chance of getting off.
I never said they weren’t guilty. But I know they are often overburded with cases because people can’t afford lawyers, so they are not going to put the effort for the really try to help that person. They are going to do the simplest thing and get on with the next case. However, they rich person is going to get his rich lawyer, and you better believe, if there is a loophole someplace, they guys is going to be paid, and have an office full of staff to help him find it.
@ n00bs: Oh, well, yeah, no argument there….
But VNV, how can the government be expected to pay for lawyers to find loopholes for criminals? That just doesn’t seem right. I don’t even think it’s right that criminals can pay for lawyers to find loopholes but I don’t see a way around that.
@VNV: There’s some truth that a person who can afford to pay for a private criminal defense lawyer will get a more in-depth exploration of any possible defense, but I don’t really see a good solution to that. The ideal (as I see it) would be for the rich defendant NOT to be able to weasel out….which requires better prosecution tactics.
And remember, the prosecutors going up against these public defenders are pretty much in the same boat as far as funding and amount of time they can spend on a case.
In my experience, when a public or appointed defender actually gets a client that’s being screwed over by the system rather than just being Extremely Guilty and Probably Guilty of a Lot of Crap He Never Got Charged With, it’s such a novelty and relief to them that they tend to really run with it, though.
That’s offensive, I treat each case with the same effort, pulic defender or client paid, and I know a lot of lawyers who do the same.
Btw, I also know public defenders that put a lot of effort into their cases.
Btw, loopholes are there to be exploited, there’s a simple way to avoid that, as soon as you see one, modify the law accordingly.
Oh, and just in general?
I get sick of people saying a defendant got off on a “loophole” or a “technicality” — generally what people are referring to in those cases are things like an unconstitutional warrantless search or something similar — I, for one, don’t consider the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution to be a “technicality” or a “loophole”. Every defense attorney that’s fighting, say, a search of a defendant’s vehicle incident to arrest is also protecting YOUR right to be secure from illegal search in YOUR vehicle. It’s an important part of the checks and balances present in our legal system and MOST of us don’t appreciate it fully. [/soapbox]
Sorry… I get a little excited over the Constitution.
I am sorry if I offend any lawyers out there. And you may be the exception to the rule. Good for you. Personally, the fact that you can get online and reasonably argue politics puts you ahead of most of the bums I have encountered. So cheers to you! Be the voice for those who can’t be heard!
Not sure who you talked to there?
any lawyers who were offended.
@VNV: Not offended, really — it’s an interesting topic to me although only a very small part of what I do during the day. Always glad to discuss it. I really am interested in your theory on the question I posted above, as it’s something that’s puzzled me for a while now.
hehe!
Sorry, that was the wrong fvcking link. Try that one.
Got the link. Don’t know what the difference is. I don’t believe in fate however, but to start with, your premise wasn’t exactly correct, coz siblings don’t get raised exactly the same way by their parents, and they never grow up in “exactly” the same environment, neither do they have the same innate intelligence or capacities etc.
@KHFP: True enough; it amazes me in general how you can look at ANY family and all the kids came out different — mine included, they are all 4 very different from each other in many ways! — but none of my kids (*knocks wood*) are out robbing dollar stores. None of them ever DID, even when we were deadass poor, and I don’t think they would — BUT, these guys’ parents probably didn’t think their kids would either. Seriously, I’ll get a family history from a guy and it’ll be like: “Well, my dad’s worked at Coca Cola as a truck driver for 20 years, and my mom’s an assistant at a dentist’s office. My oldest brother is a mechanic at Goodyear, my next brother is in the Army, my sister is a hairstylist, my next brother is in prison for armed robbery, my other sister’s a kindergarten teacher, and then there’s me…” It just kinda blows my mind.
Now of course there’s also families where you look at them and go, “yeah, you really never had a chance…” but they don’t puzzle me like these do.
@diss
see what you mean. It’s difficult to say what exactly makes that difference. But then again, the robbery he’s doing time for might just have been an accident, a single moment in his life, where he took the wrong decision, without being a bad to the bone guy.
As long as they agree to fight each other, and it’s not a case of one of them loses their temper and attacks the other, why not?
And no that wasn’t a joke response.
Yes, rich people can afford to pay their fines and pay for good attorneys. What they don’t know, is that the attorneys they get in a case like you gave will only get them the same deal, or slightly better, the public defender got the poor guy for free. Yes, he has to pay fines and fees, but they will work with you on that and won’t revoke you just for being behind on payments if you are showing an effort to pay and following all the other rules.
Where having money really helps is in cases like OJ, Michael Jackson, and Roman Polansi. If they weren’t rich and famous they would probably all have been in prison long ago.
The fact that the rich and famous are sometimes able to buy their way out of prison doesn’t mean that the system is broken for poor people. The poor people are getting punished for crimes they committed. If they can’t afford the fines and legal fees they should probably just not break the law so they can avoid the system completely.
As far as white collar crimes, they used to be pretty lenient. With all of the scandals that have come out since Enron there is no more leniency for white collar criminals. They are now looking to make an example of white collar criminals which is why Bernie got more time than a murderer or a rapist.
I am blaming more than the justice system. I am blaming the structure of our entire society. They are both pretty much fu(ked in my opinion.
Now VNV, I’m a big fan and not knocking you here…..
BUT
I work in the court system (here in Aust) and I’ve found that it’s either the very rich or the very poor who stand the best chance in court. The rich because they can afford good lawyers, the poor because they’re either on Legal Aid or ALS (our indigenous people’s legal aid). Those of us who fall in between are the ones who can’t get top representation and we’re more likely to either plead guilty to avoid the trouble or go for the cheapest over the best counsel.
Hence, it seems to me (as a sort of biased observer) that it’s only the uber-riche or the poor who”"get away with it.
Taking responsibility for one’s own actions?
HERESY!!!11!!
Who is taking responsibility? The guy oppressed for generations? or the oppressor?
Past happenings should never predict the future.
If you blame someone’s grandparents circumstances for them being poor, then
The rich kid who loses his family fortune should get it all back,
AND we both know you don’t want that.
Past happenings are what make the future. The cycle of poverty is real. If your parents were poor then you lived in a poor neighborhood, which means you went to a poor school. If you finished it, you have poor credentials that get you a poor job, which means you live in a ppor neighborhood. Now, there are success stories, but they are in no way representative of the multitude.
If a rich kid loses his family fortune, then there is a cause of it. We would have to examine what that cause is. But he was born rich, which means he had infinitely more opportunities than anyone else.
One’s own past happenings, but not through generations.
Poor is a state of mind, look at what happens to the poor who suddenly come into a windfall of cash, like the lottery. Within 10 years they are poor again. Change the state of mind, change the level of wealth.
How often does that happen? This windfall of money theory? I think its so minor compared to the number of our population that they would not be a good example and definately an exception.
@ Noobs, just how often does a lottery win result in a sum of money that will allow you to spend like you are rich and live off the interest rather than the capital? Don’t get me wrong, I’m not suggesting that that a lottery win can’t be a substantial sum to anyone barring a multi-billionaire, but that most lottery wins aren’t enough to allow more than a middle-class lifestyle without a secondary income source or spending capital.
Disagreed. Euromillions lottery is at least 20 million dollars, going up to over 200 million, with those sums you live easily off the interest.
My point is that most times the money isn’t even invested but spent on cars, boats, clothes, parties etc. Most people aren’t taught how to use money to their advantage, the same way people who are multi-billionaires do it. They know how to use the money, and they believe they are worth it. That is something that can be taught to people, even if they never become a multi-billionaire most people can learn to be well off and never want for anything.
God forbid that person buy a new car. Its beyond their McDonald’s job means and therefore they don’t deserve it. Neither is a real house. And a boat? Fu(k that! No one that’s not on TV deserves a boat!
It’s not that they don’t deserve it, it’s thinking about how best to spend the money if you have a limited amount. You can make more money with money, so should you spend it on a depreciating asset where you lose money or invest? What do you think a rich person would do? Probably invest then use the profits to buy a boat.
But what poor school would teach a student that? They would have been much better off in a wealthy private school for that information.
Government school fail.
School Funding Bases on Property Tax Fail.
We don’t all NEED new cars, and NEW houses.
Priorities fail.
Right. Only the wealthy need them. Point recognition fail.
*tries to resist*
*tries to resist*
*fails*
“I’m on a boat, motherfvcker! Take a look at me!”
I would, of course, be willing to compromise and just be on a JetSki.
I do love that video.
“Fu(k land I’m on a Boat motherfu(ker!”
Lol…me too.
guest – that really ain’t true at all. well, judging from the state perhaps it is, such as in Hawai’i where there is a catch-and-release program so people pretty much go to jail and come right back out but down in Florida, good ‘ol country attitude down there, you smoke weed, you’re in for a week, you sell meth, say good by for 5 years… you shoot someone on your lawn.. it’s legal. weirdness.
Bastard shouldn’t have been on my lawn. I’m all for the castle doctrine
lol, i am, too, if it gets me a moat. filled with piranhas (with frickin lasers on their heads)
ok, not really.. i’m afraid of water. and fish. and lasers. and rocks. and castles.
*chases wallfly around with a guppy*
The rich may go to prison, but the poor end up there disproportionately often. Prosecutors are more likely to prosecute a poor teen/young adult, than a rich one, and seen harsher penalties against them. The rich often get off with a warning, maybe probation and get the lowest penalty possible. They’re more likely to receive plea deals, etc. Yes, the criminal justice system favors the rich.
victory…where does justice work? what is the best system? I am honestly asking your opinion.
I wish I could give you a good answer. Since I believe that the state itself was created to ensure the “haves” have and the “have nots” don’t try to do anything about it, then any justice system put into place by any government is inherently corrupt.
When I think of justice I think of the following song lyric:
“Always thought that I would stand
Before the faceless name of Justice
Like some law unto myself
Like a child of God again.”
Perhaps the only true justice is divine justice. Otherwise, I think that all societies use “justice” to punish those who are unable or who do not fit into that societies own “norms”. I further think that if the society addressed the causes of the problems that eventually lead to crimes, then we would not need nearly as much justice, because the world itself would simply be more just. Otherwise, we are punishing victims.
For the record, I do think there are people with serious mental illnesses that lead to murder, rape, incest, and any other crime that there is no room in any society. However, I think instead of prison or capital punishment that these individuals should be treated as patients, and then given the treatment and rehabilitation they need. Not everyone is beyond saving. For those who are not, I still think a well run asylum would be better than just tossing them into prison to forget. Ill people are still people.
I don’t understand what you’re saying.
You start out by saying it’s the states fault, and that “norms” are what cause crimes.
Then you tell us that certain things are inherently wrong, but only for people with mental illnesses.
As far as being patients, of course that has been tried. The reason they always end up corrupt is that THERE ARE people who simply cannot or will not be helped. (Doesn’t make it right, but sometimes you have to separate people)
Norms set standards. Anyone that falls outside of those standards is a deviant, and many times criminal. Let’s take seat belts for instance. In many states it’s illegal to not wear one. I personally don’t think it’s a state’s business to “protect me from myself”, but you still get a ticket for driving without one. Same with drugs. What a person does in his own home is his own business. It’s society’s norms that make outsiders criminal.
There are also many types of crimes that come out of societies oppression of different groups. Theft, arson, grand theft auto, robbery. Some violent and some not. Many of those crimes, who the typical person is most afraid of, are crimes done out of need, whether real or perceived.
The above crimes can be curbed by stopping the causes that lead to crimes. Some crimes, like murder and so forth, may or may not be caused by society’s norms or the oppressive power of the state. It’s those people that need to be removed from the population. And yes, separate them by all means, but they should still be treated like sick people, and not animals.
Considering that most cars that are stolen are just driven around for a few days and dumped somewhere, what need is this filling? Thrills? Immediate transportation? A vehicle that can’t be traced back to you in which to commit a crime?
(Why, yes, I have had my car stolen more than once. Grrrr. One time they caught the little bastards driving it, and STILL ended up deciding not to prosecute. Pissed me off, I can tell you, especially since that’s the time that when I went to impound to get it I had to pick up somebody’s stanky nasty underwear out of the back. Bleah.)
Seriously yes; most cars are stolen either to provide free transportation somewhere or for the thrills of a high-speed ride.
A high speed ride that person has been raised to want, but then put a position where there is no way they are ever going to get it. Once again, not condoning the action, but I understand the why.
It was a ten year old Camry station wagon with an oil leak.
They didn’t put oil in it, either, and it fvcked my engine up worse.
Being raised to want things is good, it’s when it turns to stealing that it becomes bad.
Being raised to want -some- things is good. A culture that does nothing but emphasize material gains is bad, and it encourages crime.
Being raised to want things encourages hard work and effort to acheive those things. I don’t know why or how it turns to stealing, there are always those who are looking for short cuts I guess. If they think they will get away with something they will do it. That goes for rich OR poor.
Yeah, but in a country where hard work in no way guarantees your ability to get the things you are raised to want, crime is encouraged. When a poor person takes a short cut they are a criminal. When I business man takes a short cut they are pursuing innovative business. Because in our country, the only thing that matters is the dollar.
You see, that’s where we differ, I do believe hard work and perserverance almost always guarantees you success. Scores of immigrants who came to this country with nothing and now live well with children in college prove it.
Yeah. I guess that is where we differ. The frontier is no more, and those days that you think are still around have long gone. And for some, they were never here. But I guess we have now boiled it down to our own ideological views of the world, so there is no longer a need to discuss it. I blame society and want to protect the victims. You see society as the victim and blame the poor. It’s cool. I personally think its ludicrous, but to each their own.
No not quite accurate. I don’t blame the poor, I believe in empowering the poor and they have the same potential as anyone to succeed and be happy.
Well then perhaps we are somewhat in agreement afterall. I too, believe in empowering the poor. Good man n00bs. There may be hope for us yet.
“You see, that’s where we differ, I do believe hard work and perserverance almost always guarantees you success.”
BWAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!! *gasps for breath* HAHAHAHAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!!!! *passes out*
I missed ya Rando!
While I’d agree with Rando that they’re certainly no guarantee of success, I’d also counter that laziness and apathy will almost always guarantee you failure.
Weeeeeeeell, for the most part I think you’re right. But it depends on the priorities of who you are working for. I spent a good part of my morning doing the job of a lazy coworker who showed up a half hour late, then proceeded to avoid helping any of his coworkers out because he got all butthurt that he was actually expected to know some things for an important audit we were having today. This guy makes more money than I do, and our pushover boss lets him get away with this stuff constantly. What do I get for going above and beyond my job duties? Recognition? More money? Promotion? Nope, the store manager still hates me. So my reward today was getting yelled at by a few customers.
Working in retail can completely destroy your faith believing in hard work.
No one in this country, where we already have massive social programs, should have to commit a crime out of basic need. No one should be starving when we provide food stamps, public housing, etc.
Every lived off food stamps or lived in public housing? Ever lived there and then compared yourself to what you see on TV? In America, we teach that if you don’t have money or fame then you are not successful. I am not saying its right to steal. I am just saying I understand why people do it. And then we punish them for having the same obsession with materialism as the rest of us. If you can’t get it legally, and it’s what makes you a good person, then you get it illegally.
It’s not meant to be a comfortable living but is meant to keep people from starving and freezing is all. It should be a jumping off point into the world of work and pay checks. And yes people should be punished for stealing when they are given food and housing for free.
Yes, when I was a single parent in law school and my ex finally completely fell apart and stopped paying ANY child support and ended up homeless. I wasn’t thrilled about it, but I figured I’d paid taxes before, I’d pay taxes again, and it was the time I was supposed to get some back for all that. It sucks bigtime being poor, even for a few years.
And, yes, I was also working, as plenty of people on food stamps are….but I could only work part time due to regulations at my school on student employment.
Wow, with 4 kids? I admire you! But you knew you were going to be poor for a time and could deal with it because you had a goal. Some people just aren’t will to sacrifice because they can’t see two weeks ahead, they just have to have everything right now.
VNV you’re looking at it wrong, they’re not getting arrested and punished for stealing, they’re getting arrested and punished for doing it badly (and therefore getting caught).
That is very true. You are only in trouble if you get caught.
That’s actually not a bad point — it’s a bit of a generalization, but the vast majority of the criminals that I have to deal with are, to put it bluntly, fvcking stupid. Not uneducated, or ignorant, or crazy, but just plain dumb — something that’s very often apparent from both the ways their crimes were carried out and the ways in which they were caught.
I’ve very often wondered if there’s a lot of smarter criminals running around out there who have enough sense not to get caught. (Tip of the day: if you are driving a stolen vehicle without a license or seatbelt, while both drinking and smoking pot, with an illegal gun under the seat, it is generally inadvisable to ask a highway patrolman for directions when you become lost.)
Thats a good tip of the day. I will note that in my personal log for future reference.
Believe it or not, it’s a true story.
*headdeskheaddeskheaddesk*
Hehehehehehehe. Great story. IMMD.
@VNV:
“Norms set standards. Anyone that falls outside of those standards is a deviant, and many times criminal. Let’s take seat belts for instance. In many states it’s illegal to not wear one. I personally don’t think it’s a state’s business to “protect me from myself”, but you still get a ticket for driving without one. Same with drugs. What a person does in his own home is his own business. It’s society’s norms that make outsiders criminal.”
That last sentence is pretty much the *definition* of “norms”. Societies can only function when most people play by “the rules”. No rules (no norms) means anarchy which pretty much turns into rule by whomever is strong and violent enough to seize power. Societal norms are what make civil society possible.
I’m just libertarian enough to sympathize with the notion that society (or the state) should not be in the business of protecting you from yourself. However, in my mind this only makes sense when you are willing to bear the *full* consequences of your own actions. Want to drive around without a seatbelt? Fine. But don’t expect the rest of society to pay your medical bills, provide an ambulance to get you to the hospital, pay you disability, support your orphaned children, etc., etc., etc.
Look everyone. I think we may have gotten off topic here. I was just saying that our justice system is corrupt and there are many, many extremely complicated causes and effects for that. I am certainly not letting criminals off the hook, and I am not blaming lawyers. I am just saying that there are systems at work that are seemingly beyond our control that are hurting millions of people. These things need to be looked into, and then there should be attempts to remedy them.
You’re giving crimminals the “out” of an excuse for bad behavior. Being able to blame it on your upbringing, your background, or whether your ancestors were slaves at some point is an excuse.
yep
A very valid and important excuse.
Only in a very weak mind. And sorry, I’m not picking on you. Just being honest.
Look, i inderstand that some of you may not agree with me. And thats fine. You can sit at home and think about how right you are. I will sit at home and think about how right I am. Makes little difference to me.
But “WE” don’t have have world take over plans.
Snarf!
I have no take over the world plans. I have stop the false leaders and help the multitude plans. Don’t worry, I will let you stay a wage slave.
Funny, I am not a slave now. You must really have the poop list already made out. Just like the usual Marxist Dictator.
Yeah you are man. You were born a wage slave. You will die a wage slave. And society as a whole will move on without you. Not picking on you. Just being honest.
You could not be more wrong if you declared yourself creator of the heavens and earth.
Keep telling yourself that.
I don’t have to. I don’t subscribe to your kool aid of the month plan.
No. You prefer Hateraid. And thats cool. Still a wage slave. Just pretend whatever you want. Just make sure you get those billos paid, or you will be homeless and starving.
OMG, that’s so funny. As you are the one filled with hate towards the vast majority of humans on this earth.
Actually, the people I like -are- the vast majority of people on earth. Remember, I am on the side of the poor. So… wrong again. Take another swig of that hateraid and try again. I know you got it in you. All you know is bile.
More cop outs. Everyone must conform to you…. And that “let me brag to everyone how great a human I am, since I stand up for the poor” doesn’t suit you well. Or anyone, for what it’s worth.
You ignore personal responsibility as only a means to your goal. In other words, people like you are enablers.
Now you aren’t even making any sense. Do you even read what I write? Or even think about what you write? Its like you have preplanned nonsense to say no matter what was written next. You said I hated the world’s population. You are retardedly backwards so I corrected you. And now its a cop out? And because I said I want to help poor people I am bragging? In all your Christian sermons….. did ya ever… I dunno… listen? Sadly, I didn’t think so.
Come on VNV! You’re calling him a mindless slave and you STILL complain about how mean he is?
No matter what he’s doing you’re doing it just as bad.
So suck it up both of you.
I never said he was mindless. I said he was a wage slave. Just like you are a wage slave. Just like I am a wage slave. Doesn’t make either of us mindless. Now I did say he sucks. I stand by that.
Sorry, you don’t get to label me a slave. Just because it suits your mindset. And yes, I read your propaganda. And like most of the people on here, laugh at it.
You redirect any legit questions to your plans, and go off on a rant. Because you say it, it’s valid. Not.
Eh, I’m with VNV. We’re wage slaves. And they do everything they can to make sure our self confidence never rises to the point where we can make something of ourselves. My current job kills all my job searches these days because I don’t think there’s actually any jobs out there that I’m actually qualified for. Why? Because my bosses like to remind me (and my coworkers) that we’re the lowest of the low, no matter how well we do.
You don’t have to believe them, Rando.
VNV you’re only a wage slave if you chose to believe you are. Anyway, I would like to know what your alternative is to working? My guess is you have some romanticized notion of going back to some sort of agrarian society and everyone live in communes and we all take care of each other. Like those old tribal days? Am I right?
Well, I take “wage slave” to indicate that we’re subsistent on having employment with a regular check, as opposed to either having enough money that we don’t have to work, or working for ourselves in a family business or farm, or as an artist or independent professional.
Is that not what everyone else infers from the term?
Why not believe them, n00bs? The only way to NOT be a wage slave is to own your own business, and I freely admit I don’t have the business savvy to do that. They’ve got us. Because like you said, what’s the alternative to working?
And I don’t think VNV said there really was an alternative to it. He’s a wage slave too. That’s an unfortunate part of life. There’s nothing wrong with working. We all have to work. Even in our ebil communism that we want to force on the world everyone needs to work or the system falls apart.
Yeah, diss, that’s pretty much how I saw it.
Oh, and another thing, n00bs, you can only take so much rejection before it affects you. You’re right, though, I shouldn’t believe them. But that’s another story for another time.
Well, since we all have to work and make money, even the work-for-yourself crowd could be considered a wage slave, and I know VNV does not approve of the independently wealthy. So, I am assuming he means having to work to make money to be able to live. If you go back far enough people didn’t have to work they just went outside and picked berries, right? /sarcasm. I’m just trying to figure out the alternative to “wage slave”. I would sign up right now! I mean as long as I can have technology and hot water, and a car… and…
The only alternative to wage slave in modern society is to be self-sufficient, like Little House on the Prairie or something. LOL It’s just how things are. What are you gonna do? *shrugs*
Yea, I don’t think they had technology, or indoor plumbing for that matter.
Why not do the whole economic democracy thing? Workers own and run their working places, thereby they can themselves determine whether profits should be invested, be used to raise wages or cut working hours and so on. Could be quite cool methinks, would also mean we get a population thats more involved and active in issues.
I disagree. It’s a cop-out and used as a blanket “ok” for any type of bad behavior. You might as well get off for saying “the devil made me do it.”
Using your past as an excuse demeans your own intelligence and ability to make your own choices. It takes away personal responsibility, and makes everyone else responsible for you stealing a car or murdering an old lady for her lunch money.
We’re not talking about pulling yourself up by your bootstraps to get a better job. We’re talking wrong vs. right, crime vs. non-crime. They aren’t comparable.
I don’t think any of the people we are talking about would try to make their past an excuse, but if you are foolish enough to pretend that the past hasn’t had a horrible impact on many of this countries citizens and the present situations they are in directly affecting thier thought processes and actions then you are insane.
Have you ever read the comments on the local newspaper website? All certain groups of people do IS make excuses for crime.
And all certain groups of people do is blame those in poverty for being in poverty. So… what?
But you just said they don’t use it as an excuse. You dance all over the floor there mister.
I have never heard of anyone being arrested and blaming their extended histories. So I am not sure what you are talking about. The people “making excuses” are usually people on the outside objectively looking in.
Sorry, I see and hear it all the time. Charlotte NC is ruled by that “Where did WE fail this murderer” mentality.
Sometimes they did fail the murderer.
And you can’t discount the Right Reverends Jesse and Al coming in and blaming EVERYTHING on THe Man keeping their people down and making them commit crimes….
You are messed up in the head. No matter what society does, those people make choices. But I know, that doesn’t fit your agenda.
And here I was thinking you are messed up in the head. Oh well. Guess you can wander off now.
Wander off huh? Meaning you don’t have an honest answer. That and I don’t fit your personal agenda to reform the world. YES YOU CAN’T!
No. We were just at a nu-uh yes-huh match, and there is no reason to continue. Sometimes it just boils down to personal opinion where no amount of “proof” will matter. Hell, at least I stated my source immediately. And here you pop in like that little bitch dog from Looney Tunes trying to suck up to anyone with actual arguing skills who is against me. At least froo was able to articulate the points he/she/it/they were going for. You just sound like someone desperate for attention.
So you want the link to the Charlotte NC news papers? Come on, I know you are oppressed by the man, but even you can find a local news website.
Another cop out, but then again, i expected it.
is cop out your new word for the day? “Will you do this? I know you wouldn’t! Cop out!” You are a sad, strange little man.
Yeah, funny. I’m not the only one who notices your style of duck and run. Not at all.
You never answer a question, but instead redirect to your propaganda.
If you think that’s a good excuse for bad behavior, then you are insane.
Look, nature vs. nurture is complicated, and near and dear to me. The fact is that certain genetic and biological factors do play a part in your decisions, and that will always be the case. But the fact remains that a person makes the choice to commit a crime, and is responsible for the consequences of that crime, regardless of his upbringing. You’re trying to give people an out.
I think everyone has to make a choice. And I think those choices are based on the situation. I think our society has engineered certain situations where crime does appaer to be the best answer. And no matter what is near and dear to you, you cannot ingore that.
You’re greatly overinflating the number of times that happens. Sometimes people are just bad people, and it has nothing to do with their socioeconomic circumstances. I’d be willing to wager a lot of money that most criminals (especially violent once) fall under that particular umbrella.
And you are underinflating it. Look at that! Ideological difference found! So.. time to move on to a new thread!
VNV you’ve been pretty great to have around lately, but you are really dodging points today.
Justa doesn’t handle your outs very well I’ll give you that, but you just keep switching a few words in Froo’s and Justa’s arguments and calling them yours.
I don’t ask for nor require anyone’s approval to speak my mind. And the reason we stopped responding to one another because, as I have stated before, we got down to core ideological differences. It’s like yes and no. Or up and down. Yes, they are opposites, and therefore why there would be no point and continuing. And to my knowledge, none of my points are even remotely close to either of theirs.
idealogical point of views aside, VNV, i think the majority of behavioral analysists side with froo on these matters.
however, if you wanna get all deep into it you could argue it has nothing to do with nature vs nurture but a more complex theory that mixes both chaos theory and consequentialism which, in one extreme could be used to point out that humans are nothing more than reactive creatures, their reactions dependent on the stimuli that is the long series of actions and reactions all the way back to the beginning of time. if you look at it like that then they did what they did because the couldn’t do it any other way. if you want to blame anyone blame the universe.
Sure. We could blame the universe if we want to. Whatever works.
just as much a waste of time as arguing about to equally irrefutable theories. it’s like trying to argue whether or not there’s free will or fate. find a scape goat, get a beer and be done with it.
Wallfly, I’ll get the grill ready for that goat. We’ll be barbecuing it, right? To go with the beer?
oh hell ya! it’s goat roastin’ time! can you get goat medium rare or is it like chicken and goes from deadly to cooked with no in between?
Hit and run tactics again?
Here’s the original image: http://gfx.aftonbladet-cdn.se/multimedia/archive/00151/NYHETER-03s20-mj-bi_151884w.jpg
Meh. I prefer the amended one.
This is not an LOL, however i am so tainted with firefighters kittens and being preached at that i will actually not complain.
I smiled (tho i have seen this before)
As I live in Sweden, I can tell you that the fat guy behind Buh is our ex-prime minister Göran Persso who was a very bad leader for the country. So it’s Göran Persson from Sweden, George W. Bush from the U.S. and Romani Prido from Italy.
THE FLAG IS BELGIAN!!!!11!!
are you sure it’s not german?
THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!!!!!!
It’s actually Romano Prodi, and I really hope this is photoshopped, for us Italians
DD
Well I guess the jokes had better make themselves because no one else seems to be making them!
I’ll agree. As much as I enjoy making fun of GWB, this one is pretty lolame.
Carl Rove must have been steaming once he saw Bush undoing his anti-France campaign by becoming the lucky Pierre. Zing…
If it was Obama, he’d be the one on his knees for Soros or some Arab terrorist or what’s his name from the New Black Panthers. Bill Ayers would be there too at the back of the train. (and there’d be no need to photoshop it)
I’d like to borrow from JAC and say:
SILENCE! I KEEL YOU!
And you not funneh. You stoopid.
SILENCE! I KEEEL YOU!
What’s funny about this is on ROFLrazzi some care trolls were bitching up a storm about an Achmed LOL. “ZOMG JEFF DUNHAM IZ SO RACIEST!!!”
And if i hear this “SILENCE! I KEEEL YOU” thing in here one more time, I’ll do some keeling of my own.
(WTF *is* the “SILENCE! I KEEEL YOU” thing anyway???? In the words of the immortal Ultravox, “It means nothing to me. It means nothing to meeeeeeee oh Vienna”)
Look up Achmed the Terrorist
SILENCE I KEEEEEL YOU!!!
your name is not clever nor witty and your remarks do only to justify that you’re of the farthest extreme of the political spectrum and more than likely are required to wear a white hood for your extra curricular activities.
also, you’re a dumbass.
Pssst, just use the standard reply.
“more than likely are required to wear a white hood for your extra curricular activities”
For some reason I couldn’t stop laughing when I read that, Fly. I imagined a softball field with white-hooded friends of this troll. Thank you!
SILENCE! I KEEEL YOU!
What???? Keel, as in yachts?
port wine on starboard, avast! shiver me tibers and blow me down, ya varmint! let ‘em have both barrels, charge!! remember the alamo! the FLAG IS BELGIAN!!!111!!!!111
Arrrr….SILENCE! I KEELHAUL YOU!
This is what it’s in reference too.
the man behind him is Göran Persson, Swedens Prime minister
As I mentioned above, Persson is the ex-prime minister of weden. The current one since 2006 is Fredrik Reinfeldt, also current president of the European Council.
I don’t think he’s going to find what he’s looking for…
yay photoshop!
I don’t care if it’s photoshopped. It made me vomit in my mouth.
Where else are you going to vomit?
Lol! Funniest comment of the day!
I once vomited on a policeman’s foot. For which I have been eternally embarrassed.
I can only say I was 15, I’d drunk way too much Blackberry Nip and, in my defence, he DID ask me to stand up quickly.
Love how this started as another G.W. LOL and worked it’s way down to a socio-economic debate about class structure.
BTW i’m new here and out of the loop, whats with all the anti-”EWAdams”-ism?
Stick around, you will see why. Alternatively look at the so-called lol recently called ‘Political Parties’ and the comments on that one…he’s responsible for an unending stream of unfunny lols that make it onto the front page and it pisses everyone off.
This is what happens when sock puppets vote. We can vote for the funny LOLs,but the people who create the unfunny LOLs have a hundred sock puppets to vote for them.
Oh how quaint! And here I was thinking that the term “sock puppet” (meaning “someone who agrees with someone I disagree with and therefore not worth any dignity of their own nor right to their own opinion”) was sooo last year.
Having been accused of being a sock at least once – totally erroneously I may add – I rather take offence at the slinging about of such words in a perjorative sense.
Actually, we here in PK define “sock” as someones alias. In other words, someone want’s to be seen as in the majority, or wants some support for their trollish statement, so they create different characters, and use those characters to agree with themselves. We call those aliases “socks”.
Thanks for explaining that,Ivan. The guy completely missed the point of my post. No one can deny that a lot of really funny LOLs never make it to main page and a lot of sucky ones are up as soon as they’re posted. It’s not always a sock puppet either,friends will always vote for friends no matter how lame the LOL.
so glad he’s not in office anymore.
I so wish he was still in office.
Well I made it. It took me two hours to plough through the comments on this pic. It’s been so long, I can’t even remember what the LOLwas (and I’m not going to spoil the surprise by scrolling back up to check, lest I be sadly disappointed).
Congratulations, folk. I stayed awake for most of the threads, only skimming over the most insular of USA-centric posts.
This doesn’t usually happen here. It must be Friday.
Zxxxzz
::twisted::
Oh look, two idiots behaving like idiots. Who the guy on the right is i don’t know. He’s probably some kind of idiot aswell.
PHOTOSHOP.
Please try again. Your layering on the man behind bush is way off. Either an noob or someone with no patience to do it right.
invisible monika
Hey, did you guys know that the guy on the left is the former prime minister of Sweden and the guy on the right is Romano Prodi, former prime minister of Italy?
What a way to start my Saturday, two of my pet hate politicians in the same lol-pic. Former Swedish prime minister Göran Persson is one of few now living politicians that make me sick by the bare sight of him. I feel that way about Georgi-boy too.
Mmhm, that fat guy to the left would be Göran Persson, Sweden’s former prime minister. He’s gross.
omg! that guy standing behind george bush is the former prime minister of sweden! (i’m from sweden!)
Guy on left is Sweden’s former prime minister, Göran Persson.
Guy on the left is former prime minister Göran Persson
haha, the fat one is a former swedish prime minister.
I’ve never been this ashamed of Göran, so happy xD
The fat cat, grinning his teeth off, would be Göran Persson, former social-democratic prime minister of Sweden.