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If he DOES drink a beer, the Christian Right will say he’s a son of Satan.
If he DOESN’T drink a beer, the Cuckoo Right will say he’s a Muslim.
If you’re damned either way, you might as well enjoy it.
(Barack Obama)
Picture by: dunno source Caption by: EWAdams via Advanced Lol Builder
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In before flame war
hey that rhymed!
ANSI art is a computer artform that was widely used at one time on BBSes. It is similar to ASCII art, but constructed from a larger set of 256 letters, numbers, and symbols — all codes found in IBM code page 437, often referred to as extended ASCII and used in MS-DOS environments. ANSI art also contains special ANSI escape sequences that color text with the 16 foreground and 8 background colours offered by ANSI.SYS, an MS-DOS device driver loosely based upon the ANSI X3.64 standard for text terminals. Some ANSI artists take advantage of the cursor control sequences within ANSI X3.64 in order to create animations, commonly referred to as ANSImations. ANSI art and text files which incorporate ANSI codes carry the de facto .ANS file extension.
Contents
[hide]
* 1 See also
* 2 References
* 3 External links
ANSI art is considerably more flexible than ASCII art, because the particular character set it uses contains symbols intended for drawing, such as a wide variety of box-drawing characters and block characters that dither the foreground and background color. It also adds accented characters and math symbols that often find creative use among ANSI artists.
The popularity of ANSI art encouraged the creation of a powerful shareware package called TheDraw coded by Ian E. Davis in 1986. Not only did it considerably simplify the process of making an ANSI art screen from scratch, but it also included a variety of “fonts”, large letters constructed from box and block characters, and transition animations such as dissolve and clock. No new versions of TheDraw emerged after version 4.63 in 1993, but in later years a number of other ANSI editors appeared, some of which are still maintained today.
The decline of both BBSes and DOS users has made it difficult for many users to even view ANSI animations. As a consequence, this form of art is no longer practiced to the degree it once was.
The popular game creation system (GCS) ZZT used ANSI graphics exclusively. A later GCS based on the same concept, MegaZeux, allowed users to modify the extended ASCII character set as well.
Trade Wars 2002, a multiplayer BBS game that remains popular 20 years after its release in 1986, used ANSI graphics to depict ships, planets, and important locations, and included cutscenes and even a cinema with ANSI animations. Many of these ANSI graphics were created by Drew Markham, who went on to form Xatrix/Gray Matter Interactive and develop Redneck Rampage and Return to Castle Wolfenstein, among other titles.
Dwarf Fortress is another game, first released in 2002, leveraging ANSI graphics. While taking advantage of OpenGL for speed, Dwarf Fortress’ default graphics is exclusively ANSI code page 437 characters.
And, in keeping with the pic, have a vitual beer on me for that!
Oooh, nice relevance JAC. That took some thinking!
I’m still fanning the smoke out the front door of my house.
I always admire the ordinal post rule when it applies cleverly!
Quit your bitching. No one is reporting on all the things he has done that would have gotten Bush blasted by the media, such as freezing out a news channel, snubbing the Dali Lama, and snubbing European nations to come home and do something very important: play golf.
Actually, ya.. they are. Apparently you don’t watch the news. I heard all about the freezing of the Fox news and the criticism around it and I don’t even live in the states. Don’t you remember when he hit the fly and got animal cruelty criticism or when he ate the French mustard instead of the American and people said he wasn’t patriotic? He’s being so closely watched, everything he says and does is judged by the media. He’s human, people!!!!
The conservative armchair republican right only thinks I think he’s god because FOX tells them to think that.
In actuality, I assume that Obama’s crap smells like poo and I don’t expect him to walk on water.
Now, if he could help our rivers’ water quality, that’d be nice.
But for now, let’s have a Beer. Beer is good.
I’m not exactly a conservative, and certainly NOT a republican, yet I remember the fawning over him. OMG, he’s going to fill my gas tank and pay my mortgage. Ect, ect, ect….. legs….tingling……..
Yeah…I’m gonna need a cite for that gas tank/mortgage statement…and I’m gonna need you to come in on saturday…that’d be great…
I’m not googling it, but I remember seeing that woman on the news too. You know how after a tornado they always find the most redneck person they can.
Well………………… the news picked some of the worst of Obama’s fanbase.
Huh? Sorry, but I’ve seen much scarier Obama supporters person than I ever saw on the news.
That’s not really fair since there are going to be loony supporters of either side of the aisle. I remember plenty of loonies who supported McCain/Palin in ‘08, and there were a fair number of crazies for Obama too. Now, you’ll have to excuse some of the fawning. So many of us were so absolutely thrilled to have a Democrat back in the Oval Office after 8 years of GWB that maybe some of us went overboard. I’m sure in 20 years or so when the Republicans get control back, they’ll feel the same way.
Rando, there are crazies, but this was not just a case of crazies, but rather MOBS of people that were ape. Though I will admit there was a certain amount of that same hero worship with Sara Palin. (Whom I don’t like)
“MOBS of people that were ape”
Take your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!
But I washed them with foamy soap. *pouts*
Okay, fine, I’ll even allow for the possibility of mobs of ape people. But that’s far from the norm for Obama supporters. Most of us are regular people like you and me…well, like me at least. You’re definitely not an Obama supporter. LOL
And you know what, after the initial high of electing him wore off, most of those crazies and ape people went back to being sane. Yeah, there’s still some people that practically worship him, but they’re few and far between.
I agree, there is a case of buyers remorse going on. BUT YOU WERE WARNED! J/K
Now Obama, he still seems to think he is. Or at least comes across that way to me in his speeches.
It’s not a case of buyers remorse by any means. The new has worn off is all. I’m still proud of him, and still believe in his leadership.
So you are the One.
one among many – btw did you hear that the economy is turning around? following his plan… seems like things are starting to work themselves out despite the stubborn resistance of the right side of congress
Correlation does not equal causation.
Shhhhh, Dhoti! If they keep talking like this they’ll eventually have to admit that Carter sucked balls and Reagan dragged us away from the abyss into one of the greatest rises in prosperity during a long stretch of peace.
Snort-laugh-giggle-
Ohh, Froo, you slay me with that razor edge wit!
Giggle, laugh-
Reagan… dragged from the abyss… I’ve missed your humor these last months!
(How goes the child, btw? Hope you’re doing well!)
Here’s your site.
This is actually the one he was referring to. The last one is a joke.
Epic citation win!
Actually, this is a spoof of the original.
Ok, the second one didn’t show up till AFTER I wrote my comment. Weird?
You aren’t going crazy. We posted them at the same time.
I’ve always been crazy. It’s kept me from going insane.
Ok, she never said he was going to put gas in her car or pay her mortgage. She was referring to the economy getting better. She was excited about the first black president. Turn it back on yourself, and you’re watching the first white president, you’d be flipping out too. I dig how you guys LOVE to twist things. That’s the Hannity way, you know!
I’ve never watched Hannity. Thank you. Nor was it the only quote, just the one found for this video. Please read the below quotes before spouting off. There was an narcissistic air about him the entire election. Still is, if you listen to him.
And no, I wouldn’t get all wishy washy about the first white president, as I could care less about a man’s skin color. But rather his integrity, and what he stands for.
Considering how long African Americans have been held down in this country, the first black president must have been a seriously big deal to them. I thought it was pretty awesome, and I’m not even black.
But not worth the hero worshiping that went on. And blacks were/are not the only people held down in America, or the world, for all that matters.
And when we elect a hispanic president, I full expect hispanics to go all hero worship over it too. White males have had a complete lock on running the show since this country’s beginning. I don’t see a problem with going a little nuts over Obama.
Wait til a woman wins. The babes will be partying in the streets, panties flying everywhere. I, for one, cannot WAIT.
I have no problem with a little nuts. But the sacrificing Rams on the alter are a bit overboard.
Dude, the Rams have lost 16 straight games. PLEASE for the love of God, sacrifice them!!!!
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA! You have a point. Throw in Jake Delhome and you might have a deal.
When a woman wins…? Oh BOY would I be excited! I remember how excited I was the year Clinton won, just because I saw a photo of the new Congress, and there was more than 3 suits which weren’t grey, blue or black. There was WOMEN in Congress. LOTS of them!!! They looked like ME!! OMG Ponies!!!!
For real, except for the ponies part.
I give her the benefit of the doubt. She said she never had to WORRY about paying for her gas or mortgage, she never said she didn’t have to pay or that Obama would pay for her. The title on the video is misleading.
Dude with the freeze frame that chick has MASSIVE cleavage!! Can I get a whoo-whoo for cleavage!!
Yeppers… it’s kinda amazing how quickly the recent past gets shoved in the memory hole.
Well I fawned all over him and I’m not ashamed! I volunteered for his campaign, got the magnet on my car and the Obama Chia Pet for my kitchen.
And guess what! I still fawn over him, it’s nice having a president who isn’t an embarrassment (in my opinion, so if you disagree, zip it!). And my nipples still get a little hard when I see him on TV. So there!@!!!!!!!111elevenone
If only Colin Powell could have made women do this.
Colin Powell DID have this reaction and probably would have been the first black President, if he had considered running for the office. Colin Powell, however, pretty much knew what would happen (and he’s since had his entire military career dismissed by conservatives who labeled him a traitor when he let his feelings be known about the horrific way he was used in the effort to invade Iraq) and he said very plainly that he could not put his family through the ugliness and name calling that would result if a black man got elected. He was correct. The most recent election has truly brought out the worst in this country… The mean spirited bigotry and hate filled demonstrations that were supposed to have died out 40 years ago are rearing their ugly selves again…
Are you sure about that? I’ve heard far too many people declare that a vote against Obama must come from some deep-rooted racism, but I don’t recall having been invited to any “Vote for Whitey” rallies.
If I were the suspicious sort, I’d say that racism was being used as a weapon to silence legitimate critics.
Just repeating what Colin Powell gave as one of the reasons he would never run and making an observation about the fact that many of the protesters are carrying signs with unquestionably racist sentiments. Plus, I live in the south currently, where people aren’t afraid to use the ‘n’ word when they believe they are in the company of people who agree with their feelings (based upon the color of their skin… i.e., I have light skin, so I get to hear all the ‘jokes’ going around… Just yesterday, a neighbor stopped me at my mailbox to ask me if I had heard why the Obama quarter was being recalled….
A lot of people got labeled as racist for simply having one of those Chia Pets.
Against bushy people?
*must get mind out of gutter*
Ha ha really? Against sprouts? I don’t think sprouts are considered a race. Those people are stupid;.
I got the idea they were complaining about the sprouts being his hair, inferring that people were making fun of African hair.
So…does that mean that when people buy the regular Chia pet, they’re making fun of sheep’s wool? I know I am. I hate sheep, the bastards!!!
I never said it was intelligent, but rather that a certain crowd pitched a fit, saw everything as racist, called the Justice Brothers to the rescue.
I’m just fcuking with you JAC
My wife will get jealous!
I don’t fawn over him as much as I did around election time, but he still has my support.
You are herby invited to my place to watch his speeches any time you like.
Mmmmm….nipples *Homer drool*
Can I come watch TV with you?
Beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy (I forgot who said that but it’s still true :p)
Benjamin Franklin.
BEN FRANKLIN RULES!!!! we should clone him
Little-known fact: Ben Franklin invented brown-bagging.
OK, maybe not invented. But I’ve read a short article of his in support of it.
If they aren’t reporting it, how do you know about it?
Secondary sources as you might find online? I’m not necessarily saying he’s right, though the mass media has been remarkably gentle with him, but these days we have other sources then the good ole’ boob tube.
Thankfully, since most of the boob tube channels are in the tank with the current administration.
That’s why I don’t watch TeeVee.
It’s generally for people who don’t want to think for themselves.
Besides, Television killed the radio star.
in my mind…and in my car.
We’ve come to far.
Oooooh, the radio star?
actually, video killed the radio star and the song means that television killed the story programs on radio like The Shadow, Jack Benny, Gunsmoke etc. (Just your useless trivia fun fact for the day)
An article about how the mass media is giving Obama the kid glove treatment over the things he does.
hmm the same news channel that refused to show his speech? well bad news but you can’t have it both ways so when they start being an objective news organisation then I’m sure they’ll be welcomed back. And why would he want to meet with an exiled religious leader who stirs up unrest and political dissent that is not supported by the majority of his own people? And before you start shouting “Free Tibet”, Tibet was already freed in the 1950’s from the British.
Dude, get your facts straight… Fox News carried the speech. What actually happened was that the Fox network didn’t interrupt prime time programming for it… and rightly so. The major networks should do a round-robin on these things; no point in having presidential blather on more than one channel at a time.
Dude, get YOUR facts straight. Historically, the president’s speech ALWAYS preempts prime time TV. The fact that faux news didn’t was truly an insult towards the white house. Tit-for-tat. Faux news needs a slapdown, because they think they run this country.
Fox News ran the coverage. Fox News =/= Fox Network any more than MSNBC = NBC the network station.
And I agree. Considering the amount of time this particular president has spent on TV, I think we all need a break.
What?! You’re gonna diss the Dali Lama!? Someone take this guys liberal leftie card away please.
Didn’t you die while eating a ham sandwich?
Sorry, that was to Cas, not n00bs.
mama cass had 2 s’s in her last name.
?????
!!!!!!
,,,,,,
^^^^^^
Wow, so the right will treat Obama exactly the same way the left treated Bush for eight years? Amazing!
It’s called “politics.” If your precious savior can’t take the heat, perhaps he should get out of the kitchen.
Oh, so because other people did it that makes it alright? You’re supposed to learn what not to do from history, not repeat it. Critique his political decisions, there’s no problem with that, but don’t mock him like you’re in middle school saying “well the last guy got teased so that totally makes it ok”.
You are supposed to say, yes, you’re right we do that too. Sorry.
No no, the left encourages free-thinking, unlike the right and their sheep mentality. Carry on.
I’m glad that Michael Moore and Al Gore and thousands of other Hollywood types tell you want to say and then you repeat it as free-thinking.
No, he’s right. On the left, you can think and say anything you want — as long as it’s pro-abortion, anti-climate change, pro-single payer, and pro-gay marriage, of course.
To be fair, conservatives have the same right to free thinking, as long as you’re in favor of forced pregnancies, restricted access to birth control, tax cuts for the wealthy, corporate welfare, increased deficit spending (well, until nine months ago, anyway), increased budget for military contractors, and unrestricted access to all firearms. Oh, and it helps if you believe that “God hates fags”.
Those people are not real baptists. Seriously they were kicked out years ago. Real Christians will not “hate” a “fag.” They just won’t tell them they agree with what they are doing. There is a difference, and if one can’t see that then that person is the real close minded one.
I’m a Christian, left wing, libertarian nut and I hate fags.
Cigarettes are bad, mmkay?
I freely admit the Westboro Baptist Church are a bunch of freaks. However, their obsession with homosexuality is reflected in mainstream American Christianity, and it seems weird to me. I was subjected to rants against homosexualism when I was growing up attending the Assembly of God church, starting about age six. I would never have thought about it, otherwise. THEY INTRODUCED
(weird keyboard problem)
ME TO HOMOSEXUALITY! I personally won’t be able to take Christians seriously until they leave the gays alone, endorse birth control as a legitimate part of modern life, and show as much concern for the foetus after it’s born as they do before it’s born.
Dude I may get slammed for this later but I’m baptist. We don’t give a rip about birth control, as long as you’re married We do believe in caring for children, and I’ve heard sermons on caring for women who’ve had abortion even though we don’t agree with her decision. And seriously i don’t know a single church that “campaigns” against gays. I’ve listened to sermons about how they are welcome at my church.
If all one focuses on is the perceived “hate” that some spew then that person will have entirely missed the point of God’s love.
I’ll slam you later for being a baptist.
So if the couple is not yet married, birth control is wrong?
That seems illogical.
Of course abstinence is preferred, but step into reality for just a moment.
Are children permitted to be educated about birth control before it becomes in issue, or is that only allowed when it’s too late?
Nothing wrong with being Baptist, or any other sect of christianity, as long as you recognize it as your personal choice and quit trying to make the rest of the country live by your rules.
By caring for children, I specifically mean that all children receive food and medical care, regardless of how messed up their parents are, not just supporting family values.
As for your last last paragraph, you say very well what I always thought when I was attending church.
I didn’t say anything about that. Just that we all aren’t sitting there pretending birth control doesn’t exist. I’m all for the education of birth control. I have other problems with the way sex is portrayed in this country, but no problem with actual education. The last thing we need is more people.
Portland: So it’s ok for the liberal mainstream to make people live by their rules? I actually find the liberal push to “moralize” America more hardcore than the Christian right. Abortion is legal, most people in the country are Pro Civil Union (why it has to be called Marriage is beyond me), Crosses being removed from “public land”, Global Warming “reform”, etc. etc. etc. Besides the Gay Marriage ban (b/c most people want to call it a Civil Union) name ONE law enacted due to Christian Right “moralism”?
Here’s one [link].
I wish I had time to give your response the time it deserves, ILPB. Here’s a short answer:
Crosses from public land: Stars of David have been forbidden from the same display, so why allow the cross?
Global Warming: I understand you believe the science is a product of a vast international conspiracy, though I’m not sure who you think is funding it or what it’s supposed to accomplish. Honestly, climate change deniers remind me of a character from Doctor Strangelove.
Civil Unions: Civil unions do not have all the same benefits that marriage does, firstly. Second, why should the state be involved in anything other than civil unions? Replace the word marriage with the phrase civil union in all legal code, and let the churches worry about marriage. Problem solved.
Apparently PM believes the Oklahoma legislature is under the direct control of Jesus Christ. (The sad thing is, that’s probably precisely what he thinks about all of those evil red staters.)
Funny, ILPB, how instead of giving you the answer you “deserve”, he gives you no answer at all. (Other than blindly asserting his own moral superiority, of course.)
Ok, I’m game.
So it’s ok for the liberal mainstream to make people live by their rules?
How is the “liberal mainstream” (whatever THAT is) making anyone live by these so-called rules?
I actually find the liberal push to “moralize” America more hardcore than the Christian right.
WHAT? Can you please pull your head out of your ass long enough to explain how that’s happening? No, I’m being serious here!
Abortion is legal,
Yes, yes it is. And when was the last forced abortion you had? Last time I checked, it’s not mandatory, although in cases of extreme stupidity, I can see a point…
most people in the country are Pro Civil Union (why it has to be called Marriage is beyond me),
Because a Civil Union DOES NOT equate to Marriage. Equality, look it up. Do you understand the concept of “what’s good for the goose is good for the gander”. Yeah, I didn’t think so.
Crosses being removed from “public land”,
Mark covered that. Nuff said.
Global Warming “reform”,
Oh, let me guess, you’re one of those nut-jobs that think Armageddon is right around the corner, why should we worry about raping our planet when we’re all (well, us god fearin’ folk, anyway) goin’ up to see Jeebus soon anyway? Selfish, that’s what you are. Greedy, selfish and blind
etc. etc. etc. Besides the Gay Marriage ban (b/c most people want to call it a Civil Union) name ONE law enacted due to Christian Right “moralism”?
I’m going to research that one. I’m pretty sure I can come up with a few or 10. BRB
Just thought of one; you can’t buy alcohol on sunday, in some places you can buy it after a certain time of the day. TOTALLY religion based.
*makes a note to blast ay dios mio later for being a baptist*
My close friend is a four-square Christian, and I remember as a teen she and her church protested against abortions and homosexuality, standing on street corners with big signs with words like “abomination” scrawled on them.
Here’s a list of churches who are publicly campaigning agaist homosexuality:
{http://www.icwseminary.org/evil_abomination.htm}
Ivan:
I believe I listed some of those ways the liberals are making Americans live by their rules. So I don’t know why your asking me to tell you. Abortion, higher taxes for the “rich”, global warming reform, so there.
Head out of ass: Health Care reform about to be pushed on a population that majority doesn’t want it. You should pay higher taxes if you make more money. If you disagree with me you’re “racist”, “sexist”, “anti-semite” etc…
Once again Abortion is legal, that’s pushing the morality it’s alright to kill an unborn child on people. And I’m Pro Choice.
Actually a few states proposed a Civil Union with the SAME benefits as a marriage, and the gay community balked at it. Why must it be called a marriage?
I’m sorry how about me clarify, ALL RELIGIOUS symbols off public land. And yes the ACLU did try and sue Arlington Cemetery, no joke.
Actually I’m not religious. So IVan your stereotype (Obviously not the old cool IVan, but a new prick Ivan) is completely wrong, and I’m pretty sure most liberals on here that know me will tell you, I ain’t religious. So no Armegedon is not around the corner, however when people with an agenda (ie wind turbine company, solar panel company, etc) are funded to study Global Warming their findings are skewed. Like asking McD’s to do a health study of Fast Food. There is a natural cycle of warming due to our proximity to the sun. It tends to happen every 10,000 years or so. Lest us forget about the Mini-Ice Age prior to fossil fuel usage. But hey let’s just automatically believe people with an agenda.
Once again let me clarify, find me a recently enacted law that had religious basis? Since it’s today’s religious right pushing it’s will and morals on us poor unsuspecting citizens.
And Ivan you might want to try and not be a total wanker next time.
Dude, I used to love Four Square! Best playground game ever!
“Once again let me clarify, find me a recently enacted law that had religious basis? Since it’s today’s religious right pushing it’s will and morals on us poor unsuspecting citizens.”
I think the main morals pushing is not primarily done in enactment of new laws, but the interpretation of those who are already there, more.
Also @ ILPB
You don’t find the Oklahoma attempt to publish the private medical information of all women seeking abortions to have a religious backing?
You are close to right on this subject, though. Do any of you forced pregnancy supporters out there think it’s weird that in the six years the Republican party held control of congress, the presidency, and the supreme court (yeah, I know we can argue whether the SC is really controlled by any party) no one attempted to put a stop to abortions? Does that make anyone besides me think that maybe the Republicans regard the issue more as a way to raise money and rally the base than an actual issue they’d like to solve?
Hmm, my post with a link got eaten:
ILPB, you got taken on that “ACLU Sues Arlington” meme. The Military Officers Association of America does a pretty good job of debunking that one:
[http://www.moaablogs.org/battleofthebilge/2009/07/aclu_military_headstones_crosses/]
PM, your keen intellect never fails to amaze me. Of *course*, the *only* reason that the Republicans didn’t unilaterally act on the most divisive issue in American politics, about which they’re so internally conflicted that their next presidential candidate was pro-choice, and force through legislation that likely wouldn’t have left the Congress and would surely have been struck down by the Supreme court, is because they secretly *love* abortion! And BIPA and other acts they *did* pass are nothing but a smokescreen! Why didn’t I see it before?
This really opens up the topic list. The Democrats must secretly love Guantanamo, because it’s been nearly a year and it’s still open; you could fit the whole camp into the back of a C-130, right? No excuse! And they must secretly be against universal health care, too, because otherwise, why wouldn’t they have picked a bill and passed it already? They must also love the Patriot Act and extraordinary rendition…and don’t forget the war in Iraq…
Seriously, do you ever listen to yourself? Even by the already low standards of party hacks, you sound like a dolt.
(I know, you didn’t even read this far, because you can’t wrap you brain around the idea of a pro-choice Republican. It’s a crazy concept, I know, especially in the world you live in, where people can be excommunicated for not believing strongly *enough* in whatever the mandatory belief of the minute is.)
“I know, you didn’t even read this far, because you can’t wrap you brain around the idea of a pro-choice Republican.”
I’d say it’s the Republicans that can’t stand that. Check out all the money the hard-line conservatives are spending to defeat their insufficiently conservative nominee in NY-23, Dede Scozzafava. I’m quite happy to see Republicans adopt the circular firing squad tactics that Democrats have been using to keep themselves out of power the last 20 years or so!
And you accuse me of going off on tangents…
Much as I hate to admit it, we’ve got one locally, although whether it’s enforceable is on appeal right now.
Here’s a local news story about it. It’s a rule “regulating” strip clubs (which the club owners argue, rightfully, I think, is intended to put them out of business) basically holding that “New restrictions would eliminate alcohol in adult establishments, all workers in such businesses would be required to get licenses, and performers would have to stay at 6 feet from customers and each other.
I think the reason this was successful is that sexually-oriented businesses is one of the areas where the far right (“They’re SINFUL!”) and the far left (“They’re EXPLOITIVE!”) come together, at the expense of all those in the middle.
I’ve never been to a strip club. Not likely to go to one anytime soon. I still think this is way wrong.
Dude. They’re coming here next week. My brother is going to the counter rally. I wish I could go, but I gotta work that day.
You and your straw man seem to be having a lovely time together; words can’t express my joy that you two decided to stop by. Sadly, your personal intolerance and bigotry aren’t the topic of discussion — though laying out your repugnant world-view so clearly doesn’t exactly hurt my point.
Kettle, meet pot.
*snerk*
-smokes pot, makes tea in kettle-
Um, pass that dutchie to the Left hand side, yo!
Oh, and a little milk and sugar in my tea, please
Even when I decide to be generous and give you the benefit of the doubt, all you do is respond with hate. Honestly, why do I even bother?
Yes, why? Poor Dhoti, hates getting called on his hypocrisy.
I’m sorry you react so negatively to someone *gasp!* disagreeing with you. Or are you simply unclear on what “hypocrisy” means?
You weren’t disagreeing with me. And you weren’t really disagreeing. You were calling someone on their (as you perceive it) bigotry and intolerance, when you seem to be pretty intolerant yourself.
No, I wasn’t; you were disagreeing with me. It’s a subtle distinction, but an important one, and it explains why you give PM, but not me, a pass for what you think to be the exact same behavior.
Please support your claim of intolerance — again, other than simply disagreeing with you. Interesting that you overlook PM’s use of the incendiary and radicalized term “forced pregnancy”, though.
I didn’t disagree with you, I called you a hypocrite. You ARE thick, aren’t you?
Oh, and making abortion illegal IS forced pregnancy. You snarky tool.
No, rape with conception is forced pregnancy.
Right — I’m a hypocrite because you disagree with me, but PM’s not a hypocrite for (what you allege is) the exact same behavior because you agree with him. Do you understand now?
Take your partisan propaganda elsewhere.
I understand that you are a hypocrite, but you can’t see it. Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt.
Yet you can’t explain why, or produce even scant evidence; instead, you just snark and scowl. I’d think that, if I were behaving so egregiously, you’d have no trouble explaining why.
Which, of course, leads me to believe that it’s all in your head. And you’re not exactly bolstering your own case…
If the left encourages so much free-thinking then why don’t they listen to the right?
I lean to the conservative side and am always open to new ideas from either Democrats or Republicans.
1) Because the right has exactly one thoughtful and intelligent spokesperson (George Will), at least that I’ve been able to identify, and he only publishes once a week.
2) It’s hard to give credit to a philosophy that *says* they want a smaller, balanced budget, but actually increase spending, decrease taxes, and run up the national debt whenever they’re in power. (I prefer a Tax and Spend Liberal to a Borrow and Spend Conservative, if those are my only choices)
3) Too many of the notions the right espouses either ignore scientific evidence, or label it as evil because it contradicts their religious beliefs. As Stephen Colbert put it, “It’s a well known fact that reality has a liberal bias!”
That being said, I *do* read George Will’s columns when they’re in our paper. I disagree with much of what he says, but he is a powerfully intelligent man and brings a respectful and educated tone to any argument.
Because (At least where I live… Your experience may vary. No warranty implied. Void where prohibited) they often sound like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M40D8GFkiNc
“$10.00 an haur, that’s good munny!” LMAO
“Ever’ dummy knows Hawai-uh ain’t part o’ thu YOU-nited states!”
That is one FUNNY dumb-ass!
That seems to be the Left’s point of view.
You had me until your last sentence. Yeah, the left snarled and snapped over Bush for eight years. Yeah, it’s just politics, and it ain’t for sissies.
But then you blew it my throwing up that “precious savior” messiah shit. Only the bitter, unhappy, whiny right uses that.
Not to be confused with Bitter Troll, who finds both the right and the left extra tasty.
Out of curiosity, who on the left has ever referred to Obama as a savior? Certainly most on the left view him as a huge improvement over Dubya– as did a majority of voting Americans– but that’s hardly the same as viewing him as some sort of holy messiah. Is this just a “Big Lie” by the right wing? Or are there actually a large number of liberals who literally view Obama as a savior, and I just missed it somehow?
Not a rhetorical question, btw, I’d actually like somebody on the right to answer this.
“”No one saw him coming, and Christians believe God comes at us from strange angles and places we don’t expect, like Jesus being born in a manger.”
–Lawrence Carter
“Many even see in Obama a messiah-like figure, a great soul, and some affectionately call him Mahatma Obama.”
– Dinesh Sharma
“We just like to say his name. We are considering taking it as a mantra.”
– Chicago] Sun-Times
“A Lightworker — An Attuned Being with Powerful Luminosity and High-Vibration Integrity who will actually help usher in a New Way of Being”
– Mark Morford
“What Barack Obama has accomplished is the single most extraordinary event that has occurred in the 232 years of the nation’s political history”
– Jesse Jackson, Jr.
“This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal.”
– Barack Obama
“Does it not feel as if some special hand is guiding Obama on his journey, I mean, as he has said, the utter improbability of it all?”
– Daily Kos
“He communicates God-like energy…”
– Steve Davis (Charleston, SC)
“Not just an ordinary human being but indeed an Advanced Soul”
– Commentator @ Chicago Sun Times
“I’ll do whatever he says to do. I’ll collect paper cups off the ground to make his pathway clear.”
– Halle Berry
“A quantum leap in American consciousness”
– Deepak Chopra
“He is not operating on the same plane as ordinary politicians. . . . the agent of transformation in an age of revolution, as a figure uniquely qualified to open the door to the 21st century.”
– Gary Hart
“Barack Obama is our collective representation of our purest hopes, our highest visions and our deepest knowings . . . He’s our product out of the all-knowing quantum field of intelligence.”
– Eve Konstantine
“This is bigger than Kennedy. . . . This is the New Testament.” | “I felt this thrill going up my leg. I mean, I don’t have that too often. No, seriously. It’s a dramatic event.”
– Chris Matthews
“[Obama is ] creative imagination which coupled with brilliance equals wisdom . . . [He is] the man for this time.”
– Toni Morrison
“Obama’s finest speeches do not excite. They do not inform. They don’t even really inspire. They elevate. . . . He is not the Word made flesh, but the triumph of word over flesh . . . Obama is, at his best, able to call us back to our highest selves.”
– Ezra Klein
“Obama has the capacity to summon heroic forces from the spiritual depths of ordinary citizens and to unleash therefrom a symphonic chorus of unique creative acts whose common purpose is to tame the soul and alleviate the great challenges facing mankind.”
– Gerald Campbell
“We’re here to evolve to a higher plane . . . he is an evolved leader . . . [he] has an ear for eloquence and a Tongue dipped in the Unvarnished Truth.”
– Oprah Winfrey
“I would characterize the Senate race as being a race where Obama was, let’s say, blessed and highly favored. That’s not routine. There’s something else going on. I think that Obama, his election to the Senate, was divinely ordered. . . . I know that that was God’s plan.”
– Bill Rush
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
None of these are ‘right’ by any standard.
I’m impressed!
They’re all false. Rush dubbed EVERY one of those quotes. It’a right wing conspiracy. It’s the capitalistic pigs who want to keep their own insurance and not have to pay for everyone elses. It’s those pesky people who want a plan in Afghanastan while our troops are dying. It’s those hate filled mongols who don’t want terrorists released from Gitmo in our own backyards. STOP harassing Obama, he’s only human and trying to do the best his ego will allow. You know be tougher on Fox News (media, 1st Amendment) rather than the Iranian government (two nuclear facilities and offering to sell to the highest bidder. GREAT!!). Ignores or ridicules law abiding citizens protesting his actions, while shaking hands warmly with a leader who wishes America will fail. Yes Obama is good for our country.
I was inspired by your quotes, and went and made a LOL just for it.
)http://cheezburger.com/View.aspx?aid=2773406976(
I have this sudden premonition of a crapstorm of about 3K comments being left on this one. About half of them are people yelling “Shopped!”
Other than that: LMAO!!!!!!!
Yep. Hand drawn, yes, shopped, no. Not by me, just saying. I simply found it funny.
It certainly amused me.
Haha. I lol’d.
Lol! There’s one that will never see the light of day!
Because it’s actually funny!
What a shame.
Hilarious!
Great compilation!
@trivia buff:
tl;dr version: Your list is plagiarized, and only a few of the quotes you listed actually do anything to make your point.
Full Version:
trivia buff, I was about to tell you that you’d really done your homework, but then I realized that you’d plagiarized your list from obamamessiah.blogspot.com. So I guess it’d be more accurate to say that somebody else has really done your homework. In any event, your list of quotes doesn’t really prove what you seem to think it proves.
First, many of the quotes do not state, or even imply, that Obama is a messiah. Rather, they simply state that God has guided Obama, and/or that Obama has a role to play in God’s divine plan. (A claim that has been made on behalf of hundreds of American politicians on both sides of the aisle, and which has never before been equated with claims of messiah-hood.) Lawrence Carter, for instance, certainly seems to believe that God had a hand in Obama’s election, but he doesn’t claim to view Obama as a figure on the level of Jesus, or even the level of Moses or David or Elijah or Paul. Ditto for Bill Rush– he views Obama as part of a divine plan, but not on the level of Jesus, the prophets, or the patriarchs. The Daily Kos quote, while religious in nature, does not claim that Obama is a messiah– in fact, strictly speaking it doesn’t even claim that God is helping Obama at all. Gerald Campbell doesn’t claim that Obama is a messiah, merely that he can inspire people spiritually. And Ezra Klein’s quote specifically denies that Obama is a messianic figure. “The Word made Flesh” is how the Gospel of John refers to Jesus, and Klein’s specifically states that Obama, while somebody capable of bringing out the best in people, is *not* the Word made Flesh– and therefore not the messiah.
Second, many of the quotes you list don’t have any spiritual or religious content at all. The comment in the Chicago Sun-Times about taking his name as a mantra was clearly meant to be humorous, not religious. Halle Berry expressed no spiritual sentiments, only a willingness to help out in Obama’s election campaign. (Her statement was made prior to the election.) Hart’s statement is also devoid of spiritual or religious sentiment; he states only that Obama will bring change to America. (McCain said the same thing about himself, and nobody accused him of claiming to be the messiah!) Deepak Chopra certainly regards Obama’s election as a step forward for America, but it isn’t clear if he means a step forward spiritually, or just culturally. Toni Morrison also says nothing about Obama being the messiah, unless merely having intelligent, creative, and relevant ideas is synonymous with messiah-hood. Chris Matthew’s statement does refer to the New Testament, but it’s clearly a metaphor, along the lines of the phrase “biblical proportions”. Such phrases are not religious statements; they’re just ways of emphasizing a point. Jesse Jackson’s quote has no religious or spiritual undertones, despite the fact that Jackson is a man of the cloth. All Jackson says here is that Obama’s election is the most significant event in the history of the United States. (And while I disagree, you have to admin that it’s pretty damn remarkable that a black man could be elected President in a country that once viewed black people as property, and in which many citizens still view black people as inferior. Mind you, I’m not sure if this means that Americans are progressing towards greater tolerance for their fellow man, or just that Bush screwed the pooch so badly that Americans were desperate to elect the least Bush-like candidate possible.) Oh, and what about Obama’s statement that “this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal”? He’s not talking about miracle working or spiritual transformation. He’s talking about reversing the damage done by reckless pollution during the last century– a very earthly, practical concern!
I’ll give you a few of the quotes– Mark Morford, for instance, refers to Obama as a “Lightworker”, which is a New Age term for a person (who may be an lowly human being or a God-like alien entity) whose purpose for existing is to bring enlightment to others. Yeah, that sounds pretty spiritual to me. Steve Davis and Eva Konstantine also seems to believe that Obama has messiah-like qualities. Oprah’s quote might also be spiritual, if she’s using “higher plane” in the literal New Age sense and not just as a metaphor for leading a wise and moral life. (I’m not sure this is the case, but I’m feeling kinda bad for you at this point, so I’ll give you this one.) So that’s four people who literally believe that Obama is the messiah. Four people, out of nineteen quotes. Four people, out of 69.5 million Americans who cast their ballot for Obama.
Now, here’s a homework assignment for you. Take all of those quotes and change them to refer to George W. Bush. Would you be pissed and consider them inappropriate in a way that exalts a mortal man to something higher than what he is? If so (and be honest), then your rationalizations of what the quotes “actually mean” is false.
Those quotes might not call Obama the messiah in a literal or direct sense, but the implication that he’s better than the average bear is clearly there.
May I? Let’s assume, for argument’s sake, that the quotes are real and not taken out of context, that they truly represent the speaker’s intent. Several of them are innocuous, but several of them could be seen as that kind of exaltation you are talking about. I, a voter for and supporter of our president, would not consider such words appropriate. Democracy demands that the people neither demonize nor deify their elected leaders. I think the previous administration was about as bad a government as has ever been seen in this country, with a legacy that will require many years to fix, and I loathe the people in Congress who rolled over for them time and time again, and I think the Supreme Court and other courts have been severely marred by the appointments made by that administration, but I never called George W. Bush a Nazi, nor did I call Cheney the embodiment of all that is evil, etc. There were those who did, which was overly simplistic. BUT, let us also keep in mind that there were many supporters of the Bush administration who thought that God’s hand had been the force that brought him to office and kept him there in 2004. For instance, listen to William Lane Craig’s reflections on the 2004 election. That is just as bad as what those quotes appear to be saying about Obama. If democracy is to thrive, it should not be bound up in messianic verbiage, nor should it be burdened with the language being tossed around by Glen Beck and the “teabaggers.” They may say what they want, as is their right, but they do NOT contribute to intelligent and informed discussion.
But guess what else? I, like so many others, *want* my government to be filled with people who are not “average bears.” There were those who liked George W. Bush because of his “just folks” appeal, and the same applies to Sarah Palin, but when I look to my government I want to see people who are my intellectual betters. I think President Obama is that, and is such for most Americans, for which I am glad. Yeah, now you’ll denigrate the president’s intelligence, and thus mine, I know, I know, but please recognize that I’m trying to engage with you rationally.
In other words, you don’t want to be governed, you want to be ruled. Fair enough — that’s your right, even though I find it baffling — but don’t assume the rest of us share your lack of independence.
we were more “ruled” under bush than any presidency before.
It’s not about politics, it’s about elitism.
Whenever I pick someone for a job — whether it’s one of my employees or one of my elected officials — I want someone who’s going to do a better job than I would. (Otherwise, why not just do it myself?) But that doesn’t make them intrinsically *better* than me, or in a higher social class, or any crap like that.
Just look at what Clamboy says — “my intellectual betters”. He’s doesn’t want people who are good at their jobs, he wants “better” people whose feet he can sit at. He’s afraid of making his own decisions, having his own opinions; he wants to have his “betters” make the tough choices for him.
It’s weak and it’s pathetic.
i didn’t find it weak or pathetic at all – i’m surprised by your own admition you hire people who could do the job better (and i would as well – not only do you get a better product or service but you personally grow as a professional by picking up new techniques or methods from those you hire).
what obama is doing (that is who we’re talking about, correct?) is very similar to that and it makes me feel all the more confident that he does listen to his advisors instead of making gut decisions.
he’s running the country not a super market, he should be pragmatic, he should take his time and weigh the options. it’s not weak, it’s not pathetic. but, just how i view it though (and those who brought up most of the elitist crap were on the right, those who actually were of the elitist, top-end of the income range and attitude).
No, actually, it’s not about Obama at all. (That’s why I said “it’s not about politics” — I meant it. Really, I did.)
“[M]y intellectual betters” — that’s the phrase clamboy used. Not “people smarter than me”, but “betters”. In other words, it’s no longer a government “by the people”, it’s a benevolent lordship.
It’s not about Obama, or Bush, or any of the specific people in charge, really — it’s about the attitude that being in government makes them intrinsically better than us.
ah, i see, sorry, read your post too quickly (long story, but it involved multiple cups of coffee and a red bull).
anyway, when you put it like that, then yah, i totally get where you’re coming from. i think it’s more about semantics as either phrase can mean the same thing, depending on how you take it. but at least i understand what you were getting at for the most part, think you make a good point especially given the context in which he states it the phrase could be taken simply as “people smarter than me” or as you put it.
So, Dhoti, when your care breaks down and you have to take it to a mechanic, do you take it to a mechanic with a lot of knowledge and experience repairing cars? Or do you take it to someone who knows no more about cars than you?
When you purchase medicine, do you buy medicine developed by doctors and chemists with years of training and experience in the fields of chemistry and biology and pharmacology? Or do you buy medicine developed by people who are no more knowledgeable about these topics than you are?
If you needed to have a tumor removed from your brain, would you want an expert neurosurgeon, or a regular Joe who didn’t know anything about the brain other than what he learned in high school?
Who do you think should be developing the weapons, armor, and tools being used by our armed forces? Do you want them developed by engineers with specialized training in chemistry, physics, ballistics, and military science? Or somebody whose knowledge of military science is limited to a couple of half-remembered History Channel shows? And how about the soldiers themselves? If you yourself were a soldier, who would you want in the trenches with you? A group of expertly trained warriors, or a bunch of good ol’ boys who’ve been a few bar brawls and own a shotgun or two?
You get the point. In every other aspect of your life, when you’re faced with a problem that you yourself cannot fix, you look to experts. When you need information you don’t have, you consult somebody smarter than you. When you need a task performed and you don’t have the skill to do it, you get somebody with more skill than you. That’s not weakness or dependency; that’s the price we pay for not being cavemen. On the whole, I think it’s a worthwhile tradeoff. If you don’t, fine. Go be a caveman. You could start by not using the Internet– which was, after all, designed by people smarter than you.
Even for a sock puppet, you’re not that bright. (But holy crap, what a wall of text. 1000 words, 0 content.)
I’ll quote myself, since you’re obviously incapable of even the slightest bit of reading comprehension:
> But that doesn’t make them intrinsically *better* than me, or in a higher social class, or any crap like that.
Read. Think. THEN speak. Got it?
@Dhoti:
Let me get this straight: You really think that a mere 1,000 words (actually only 339) constitutes an incomprehensible “wall of text”? If your reading ability is actually that poor, fine, I won’t make fun of you. But in that case, perhaps you should avoid insulting other people’s reading comprehension. People in glass houses, judge not lest you be judged, and all that.
In any event, your whole argument lies on a blatant misinterpretation of Clamboy’s words. The mere fact that Clamboy refers to people as his “intellectual betters” does *not* imply that he wishes to be dominated, or to have all personal responsibility taken out of his hands. It only means that Clamboy wants important decisions to be made by people who are, you know, actually qualified to make them. That’s not “weak and pathetic”, that’s just the sensible thing to do, as you yourself conceded in your response to wallfly.
But hey, Clamboy likes Obama and you don’t, so naturally you had to prove to the world that Clamboy is “weak and pathetic”. That’s why you started your response to Clamboy with the phrase “In other words.” You *had* to use “other words” to make Clamboy look weak, because Clamboy’s *own* words did nothing of the sort. So you decided to distort his words by claiming that the phrase “intellectual betters” is really a synonym for “person worthy of dominating me and making all my decisions for me so that I don’t have to.” And that may well be the case in whatever crazy moon language you speak, but it’s certainly not the case in ordinary English. To put it simply, in deference to you, your argument is a strawman.
Now I’m confused. I was pretty sure you’re a sock of clamboy’s; you two have roughly the same level of grammatical sophistication and rambling, and you seem to be making some awfully informed assumptions about his mental state. But after reading this, I’m starting to think that you might be a different person, albeit one who’s extremely literal and not too prone to deep thought.
Um, Dhoti, do you know how I was able to make those “awfully informed assumptions about [Clamboy's] mental state?” Because I READ HIS FRIGGIN’ POST!!! That’s how dialogue is supposed to work– you read the person’s words, extract the intended meaning from those words, and respond to them. If you tried doing that, instead of superimposing your own twisted meaning on other people’s statements, you wouldn’t be so confused, and you might actually be able to contribute something to the discussion.
But you don’t want a discussion — you want an echo chamber. A discussion would require you to stay civil and considered and actually explain and defend your point of view. You’d much rather use sock puppets, spout whiny blather, and write off anything you disagree with as “twisted”.
But other than that, congratulations on adding to the discussion, my poly/cotton blend friend!
Once again, Dhoti, you are superimposing your own meaning onto other people’s words. For one thing, at no point did I claim to want an echo chamber. That’s your own belief, and it has no basis in reality, as a moment’s thought would reveal. (Think about it– if I really wanted an echo chamber, why would I be attempting to converse with you in the first place?)
For another, you say I should “explain and defend [my] point of view”– yet you ignore the fact that I did precisely that in my previous posts. In my first post to you, I said, “In every other aspect of your life, when you’re faced with a problem that you yourself cannot fix, you look to experts.[...] That’s not weakness or dependency; that’s the price we pay for not being cavemen.” There’s the explanation. Where’s the defense? Right above that paragraph. Look at those rhetorical questions again. Each of them gives an example of how a reasonable person could seek out somebody with superior knowledge and skill (mechanic, doctor, etc.) and use their services, *without* becoming “weak and pathetic” in the process. You’d know that already, if you’d actually bothered to read that “wall of text.” (Which we grown-ups call *paragraphs*.)
As for staying “civil and considered”, my original post to you, and the posts I’ve made to others on this page, were indeed civil and considered. The reason you don’t think so is that you think it’s rude to disagree with you. Granted, I’m not being civil *now, but you lost the right to be treated politely when you started throwing out insults and accusations.
Hi, Dhoti!
Was I talking to you? No.
Did you address what I said in my post? No.
Did you take two words from my post and completely misrepresent them? Yes!
But what the hell, here we go: the phrase “intellectual betters” is synonymous with “smarter than oneself.” It is NOT synonymous with “better than oneself.” What I said was the equivalent of, “I prefer Sherlock Holmes over Barney Fife when it comes to crime solving, even if the latter might be more fun to go fishing with.” See, now you’ve learned something!
Similarly, let’s talk about this “elitism” thingy you throw about down below. Go find the book, “The Age of American Unreason” by Susan Jacobi, and this next part is important: read it. You will find an excellent dissection of that idea. She does better than I could, as she is my literary better.
And really, Dhoti, what the hell would I need a sock puppet for when addressing your pissy little rants?
I’m so sorry to have violated your right to privacy (by which I mean your right to not recognize that anyone disagrees with you) on a public forum.
Why sock? Why indeed. Twice the off-topic personal attacks, I guess.
Dhoti, that is one of the funniest things I have ever read.
@froofrou: Would I be pissed if these quotes had been directed at Dubya and not Obama? Certainly not. I’d definitely think they were exaggerations at best, and simply incorrect at worst. (Even the right would never describe Dubya’s election as the point in human history where environmental concerns became paramount, for instance.) But I wouldn’t be angry. More importantly, I wouldn’t equates these statements with proclamations of messiah-hood. (With the exception of the four quotes I pointed out previously.)
Don’t get me wrong. I’m an atheist, and as an atheist I think that right-wing fundamentalism, mainstream Christianity, and New Age spirituality are all equally wrong. I don’t think Obama is a “Lightworker”, and I don’t think God had anything to do with his election. Ditto for George W. Bush. But as a group, the left isn’t being any more worshipful or reverant towards Obama than the right was towards Dubya. And it’s disingenuous for the right to pretend otherwise.
If this “lol” has any legitimacy, it’s disappointing that people don’t read their Bibles. Jesus was accused of being a glutton because he consumed food and wine.
Would that be the normal Bible or the rewritten, conservative friendly version?
Now, now, lets not get into a debate on the Bible. Everyone knows that it’s been rewritten God only knows how many times. Whoever is translating it tends to put their own spin on it. So unless you’re fluent in Ancient Hebrew, Ancient Greek, and whatever other languages it was originally written in, you’re always going to be reading someone else’s interpretation of it.
eehm, get your facts straight! Jesus wrote the Bible, and he certainly didn’t use different languages.
No, God wrote the Bible, nimrod. YOU get your facts straight. And he did use different languages, Ancient Hebrew and Ancient Arimaic, because his human children don’t understand “god-speak”. If you’re going to be contrary &/or sarcastic at least get the party-line info right.
God had to write the Bible, or at least the first part of it. Because if he tried to just come down here and tell everyone, then their heads would asplode and get brain matter on Alan Rickman’s shirt.
Nope, Jesus wrote it, between the two last suppers. Get your facts straight!
I would just like to give a personal disclaimer at the moment: I’m Catholic so you should know that I rarely read the Bible. I have it read to me twice a year- on Christmas and Easter.
troll bible best one of them all, troll jesus comes down from his cross, raises army of zombies and kicks ass with flame thrower.
let he who is with out sin, kick the first ass
And where would I find a copy of this version of the Bible?
Mel Gibson’s house perhaps.
Along with a portal to Hell. No, wait, that’s just a 24/7 screening of Passion of the Christ. My bad.
24/7 screen of Passion of the Christ = hell.
That’s true enough.
is it a religous movie. or a snuff flick
Whatever it is, it’s garbage. Or at least, that’s what I’ve heard. I refuse to see it.
I saw it. It’s a religious snuff flick.
You have to say the 3 sacred words before you can get that bible: Klaatuu Verrata ***cough****
Why can’t it just be a simple “Nii”? They always have to be complicated.
NICTO!!! ITS NICTO!!!!
crap its the army of darkness…-grabs his bitter axe-
Which army of darkness? There are several.
the one with people as skinny as kira knightly
*trembles* I think I’m going to go hide now.
dont worry, bitter troll will throw food at them, they scream and run away
bitter troll has one, come over to bitter troll’s place and he will show you
*smirk* I’d be willing to bet that’s not all you’d try to show me… or anyone else who showed up at your place.
no no no no no…bitter troll picky…anyways this just troll bible stories..the story of troll noah’s ark. in the end they all looked in the ark and melted or exploded cept the guy Dr jones
Doesn’t Dr. Jones always have some chick with him? Did she melt too?
No the director quit humping her so she lost her job.
no her eaten by lions…who thought it was good idea to put all the meat eaters and all the plant eaters in one boat togther ?
Well, I got bored so…
bitter troll was saveing throw away indy girlfriend for eating later!
I’m sorry. I can get you a new one. I’m sure there will be another movie out soon.
indy in a walker!
be good mina, bitter troll will read you more
I’m always good, except when I’m bad.
bitte troll approves
Who is “bitte troll”? I’m glad he approves though.
-bites- thats who!
You keep that up and you’re going to earn a spanking mister.
-blush-
My life is now complete. I made bitter troll blush.
you can now die all happy?-hides axe behind him-
And “Dogma” FTW!!
head is so hard to get out of your trousers
Too many smarta$$ responses going through my mind at the moment. I can’t pick just one. Darn it!
hehehhehehehe
Try club soda, I heard that works.
ick its cold, mina rub it for bitter troll?
Of course. You know I’m nothing if not helpful.
rub faster….ya….call me Uncle Fry
But, Jesus spoke every language, including Elfish! Or is it Elvish? Whatever, he’s Jesus and he friggin’ knows EVERYTHING!
it’s elvish.
Thank you! I had a brain fart!
Elvin
or Elvis…cause Elvis is the king..the one true king
Who’s the smuck?
its me bitter troll
Does it make me a hopeless geek that I learned the Elvish alphabet and use it to write secret notes to my husband?
Yes, but that’s still really cool.
Dang! That’s one way to keep secrets from the kids…and later motivate them to read LOTR!
i attempted to do that and learned about half of the alphabet… but i was going to pass notes to one of my gay friends who had learned it to pass notes to his ex-bf.
That’s not beer, it’s Bud Light.
^full of win
Yes, TOTAL WIN!
*sigh* I like Bud Light. It’s a great watching-the-game beer. And it’s better than that piss water Miller Lite. OMG that stuff is undrinkable.
Client: “This beer tastes like piss”
Bartender: “It’s ’cause we pisss in it!”
*hangs head in shame*
I like Bud Light…. but then again, I’m a girl.
I like Bud Light when I am drinking lots of beer in a night for the drunkness of it and need room in my belly to get more in. But for dinner I like a wheat beer or ale. Something more hoppy. One is for power hour, one is for taste.
VNV, don’t you know that Bud empitimizes what’s wrong with American capitalism, hell they sold out to the Dutch.
BUT ITS A BELGIAM FLAG!!!1!!!
*grumbles* The entire city of St. Louis is still pretty bitter about that.
but then again, I’m a girl.
no excuse! i have female bits and pieces but i am a MAJOR beer snob. and bud light is only acceptable for things like beer pong or flippy cup. for actually drinking… blech.
yes!! beer pong and flippy cup! awesome!
i used to be awesome at flippy cup. i ALWAYS sucked at beer pong though.
Your female bits are awesome too.
well, duh…
But what do you do on Tuesdays?
You mean…ORALday?
I was once sitting at the next table to an American in a restaurant in Glasgow (we were attending the same event). He asked the waitress what beers they had and was told “Budweiser or Miller”. His reply was along the lines of “I was hoping for something that wasn’t American”. She said “Sorry Sir, I meant the Czeck Budweiser” and he ordered one. When she left I leant across and said “You mean you wanted a beer, not yellow fizzy water” and he replied “Yep”. Oh and I ordered Budweiser too.
More on the event – 5 day event with 5_000 attendees, and we drank a brewery, yes a brewery, dry!
“You mean you wanted a beer, not yellow fizzy water”
that’s exactly what i’m talking about. i think the last time i VOLUNTARILY drank bud or something along those lines was my sophomore year of college (when i wasn’t yet legal… shhhhh!). obviously if i’m at someone’s house and that’s all they’ve got i won’t be a pissy bitch about it but i will definitely wish that they had better taste in beer.
Any suggestions for an Midwest American?
depends on what you like… are you more a stout or ale type? IPA? doubles? quadruples? i’ve got a ton of suggestions.
my favorite seasonal right now is dogfish head punkin ale but the brewery is OUT. they released kegs a few days before 10/1 and they were out by mid last week. a decent “knock off” of this is blue moon’s seasonal called harvest moon. you should be able to find that at any decent distributor in the midwest.
if you like ales, try to find thirsty dog raspberry ale. a bit tangy but quite smooth.
stouts: samuel smith organic oatmeal stout can not be beat.
or if you want high ABV with good taste and black as the dead of night you can go with catherine the great or try to find great lakes brewing blackout stout.
Writing this down…..
I’m a big Wheat Beer fan. Monkey Wheat and Land Shark are amazing, but I am writing that down to look for them.
bell’s brewery out of kalamazoo (i think) michigan makes a really good wheat beer. their oberon is spot on too, usually needs a slice of orange to highlight the underlying citrus tones though.
I loves me some wheat beer too.
Blue Moon is good, but my favorite so far is Boulevard Unfiltered Wheat. That’s mighty tasty beer.
If you can find it Atwater block vanilla java porter. 9 bucks for a 6 pack but oh so good
rogue mocha porter is good.
breckenridge makes an excellent vanilla porter… best on tap, bottled tastes a little bitter.
youngs double chocolate stout is always a good standby.
and if i really wanted to get into it, there’s an excellent german beer (name is escaping me at the moment) that is sour and bitter and not good on it’s own, but it’s meant to be paired with a raspberry syrup (similar to grenadine, but raspberry) and then it is a-freaking-mazing.
Leinenkugels!
I’m not a fan of the girly varieties like Honey/Berry Weiss, but the Sunset Wheat is delicious. They also have great seasonal beers like Big Butt.
At any rate, it’s a darn good beer brewed here in Wisconsin. There are better beers about, but I like to support local business.
leinie is superb. i will definitely second that.
their “christmas” beer (fireside nut brown) is stupendous.
*snerks*
You said nut.
yes i did. i said tit a ways down the page too… i’m on a roll (or i’ve got a one track mind?).
You may want to snatch that up quickly.
*giggles to herself*
PENIS!
i figure if we’re going to be naming bits and pieces i might as well start the penis game…
Are we going to be dicking around with this all afternoon, then?
Figured I’d get in early before it gets too hard.
diss – i figure we can do this for a while until some useless twat comes in. then we can all gang up on their ass.
Diss, it’s a good idea to get your licks in while you can.
I’m glad you gave it your breast shot.
I just take you guys tounge in cheek.
Let’s see how many puns we can fit in before the cock crows.
I can’t drink Bud, it gives me a horrible headache. In fact, after being introduced to beer from other countries I can’t even drink American beer.
As a lifelong St. Louisan, you guys are killing me here. Seriously, Anheuser-Busch pretty much props up the entire local economy. If they go, St. Louis would end up about the size of Toadsuck, Arkansas.
American beer is like making love in a canoe: it’s fu(king close to water.
Monty Python FTW!!! I love the Aussie Philosophers!
My dog is named after bud light since he likes it so much.
I second this comment win!
And to whoever think christians don’t drink beer, Jesus turned water into wine as his first Miracle. Anyone who thinks alcohol is evil purely because it’s alcohol doesn’t read the Bible very often.
I’m a christian and I LOVE trying different types of beers. I am making it a goal to try as many beers as possible in life. I have no problem if Obama drinks a beer, being president is hard.
I do have a problem if it’s a Bud Light. If you can travel all over the world, at least get the good stuff.
in 7 1/2 months this year i tried over 100 different types. i love my local bar and their world tour. i’m probably close to 150 now. i slowed down once i finished the 100… my liver is thanking me.
They just don’t believe in OVER indulging, because it makes you stupid and weak.
No, they really don’t believe in drinking.at.all. We had an ‘Oktoberfest’ here to raise money for the homeless shelter and the soup-kitchen (we only have one of each in the county), but the area churches (we have 96 of those) boycotted the event because there was a beer tent at the festival.
I’m part of many churches. I have yet to be told drinking is wrong from any of them. Did you say you were from Utah?
North Carolina.
Per State (ahem, church) law. No alcohol may be purchased on Sunday and beer/wine may only be purchased after 12:00…
I don’t think the homeless shelter, battered women’s shelter and soup kitchen were planning on busing their clients in to purchase beer. It was one of 82 different booths (food, crafts, games, etc.) at the festival.
I bet it might have something to do with the fact that many homeless people have problems with alcoholism as it is the reason many of them are homeless. Most Christian churches are not against reasonable drinking.
Got ahead of myself. This reply was actually meant for you.
Depends on the church, kid. And the breed of Christian, which is another matter entirely.
List some, then.
Catholics. Body of Christ = wine.
(pssst. Wine=Blood, bread=body)
D’oh!! Thanks. I was having a brain reboot moment.
*headdesk*
NP, just figured I’d help you out a bit. Been known to have a brain cramp or two myself. Seems I know what I meant to say, but typed something different….
PSST only after the blessing by the Priest.
And it just ins’t Catholics, there are quite a few Protestants that believe that as well. While others believe it is the symbol for Christ’s blood and body.
HMMMMM cannibalism, GOTTA LOVE IT!
There’s generally three camps:
Moderationists (which, apparently, are the only ones with access to the internet today) that think that drinking moderately is okay. These include Catholics and such.
Abstentionists that believe drinking at all is inherently sinful and just unwise, but are okay with wine for blood and saying that people drank because water sucked back in the day. These include Baptists and generally a lot of evangelicals.
Then there’s Prohibitionists which just don’t want you to have fun, and was pretty sure Jesus or people that drank his blood didn’t have fun either. Their usually just angrier versions of Abstentionists… like Southern Baptists. And yes, I’ve been in a Southern Baptist church that only had grape juice for communion.
And just because your church doesn’t follow the main fold of your Class-o-Christ doesn’t mean anything; that largely is influenced by your church’s own leader and his views.
And yes, I’ve been in a Southern Baptist church that only had grape juice for communion.
this might not have been because of their beliefs. in the united methodist church they only use grape juice because it is an “open table” and they don’t want to exclude pregnant women, recovering alcoholics, etc. the church you were at may have following this ideology.
No, they were not. They disallowed using wine in communion entirely. Only grape juice.
yeah, that’s what i said.
UM church doesn’t even allow wine to enter church buildings. but it’s not because they’re anti-alcohol, it’s because they want to be all inclusive.
In response to the_original_shortright above (since the site decided I’m not allowed to nest up there anymore)
My bad on that misread. I couldn’t smack myself in time to not press Add Comment, and couldn’t respond to myself to call myself out and explain adequately. Here is what I should have said:
This church had no intents to be all-inclusive in regards to communion; many members were actually disallowed from acting part for various reasons. They were, in fact, staunchly anti-alcohol to the point that they stared down their noses and gossiped about pastors in other churches who dared to have a cake with some liquor soaked in it. They frequently picketed and complained whenever someone in the local government talked about letting alcohol being slightly less restrictive. They did fall flat to the people not of their church that drank freely because that’s the only thing to do during a weekend there.
hmm, people like that lead boring lives. when you’re so busy bitching at what everyone else is doing, you’re guaranteed to be a boring lame ass.
Well, yeah. Their favorite thing to do was wake up early Sunday morning to put on some fancy clothes to a place where they compare fancy clothes and trade gossip. Followed by going out for Chinese.
mmmm chinese food. yum.
Did someone say Chinese food? *drools* Haven’t had that in forever!
i had thai food last week and i had sushi for lunch today… haven’t had chinese in a long while though. might be forced to do that this weekend.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
Please continue drinking the fine Anheuser-Busch products, please. My local economy depends on it. O_O
I just hit their website. Rolling rock is decent. And I like most of the…imports. Problem is, sulfites make me wheeze, so I stick to microbrew/things with dates these days.
Lite beer, lite President…. yeah kinda fits.
Do you EVER have anything constructive to say?
I thought it was funny. And could have been used on GW too.
Well, when you put it that way, you’re right. I’ll allow it. *stops doing the force choke hold on DRH*
Besides Obamam is light. At least compared to Taft, then again everyone’s light compared to Taft.
Constructive? Supposed to be a humor site and that was funny! Why can’t we see captions like that?
First, I voted for the guy, but I have to tell you, I have seen more beer being drank by Obama then every other president I can remember combined. Secret Muslim or no, he may need some AA after all these photo ops.
Psh, I drink three beers a day and it has never been a problem for me.
There are actually some studies that say having 2 alcoholic beverages a day is actually good for you. However, three means you have problems. Maybe you just didn’t know.
I am kidding, btw. Nothing wrong with having a few beers.
well, only if those “alcoholic beverages” are (red?) wine, specifically. If memory serves, a few *beers* a week is better than no drinks.
My sister was told by her dr to drink a dark beer a night to help her breast feed her son. She wasn’t making enough milk, and apparently that helped.
That’s the first I heard of it. Very interesting. Guinness is supposedly good for you because it’s very high in iron and stuff.
Plus it tastes good.. I love Guinness, but only at room temp. It tastes horrible cold.
The man inherited a war and a recession, I say he’s entitled to a brewski…
But that’s just me.
Heres to ending the war and the recession! Cheers!
…whenever…. either of those things actually happen….
Since they definitely haven’t happened yet. Because it’s not as easy as everyone thinks it is.
typical american president
Oh yeah. Articulated, well spoken, intelligent, black, and liberal. Typical America…… hey wait a second! He’s not typical at all!
*golf claps*
Well played.
However he is also worhtless, so yeah typical American President. That and he hasn’t accomplished anything, refuses to listen to the people, had borke almost every campaign promise so far, WOW Obama is the seterotypical President. So I guess he is doing a “good” job at being President.
PS he’s not really that articulate unless he has a teleprompter.
Readership we can’t believe in!
)http://cheezburger.com/View.aspx?aid=2779957248(
In Soviet Russia, typical American president is…well, still Barack Obama.
*claps* Well done.
Wow… Now I remember why I don’t go on pundit kitchen. Painfully stupid captions
And yet you’re here now. Making a comment about one.
Obviously, Reliena doesn’t understand the concept of irony.
Kinda wondering if you do…
I’ll keep this to myself now…
Oh, it’s you again. I was hoping you’d have drowned in your own shit since you spew so much of it.
He’s a son of satan, not because he enjoys a beer now and then, but because he legitimatizes the murder of the unborn as the right to choose.
I guess I must be satin too. Kill that fetus! Kill it! And use it to cure me some cancer!
Kill it!!
You’re satin? Are you lace as well? ‘Cos that would be kinda creepy.
VNV: I see you more as a leather person.
That made me LOL.
Murder – the unlawful and pre-meditated killing of one viable human being by another.
Since abortion is neither unlawful, nor the killing of a viable human being…
I’ve been waiting for the right chance to use this joke!
How do you get 10 babies in a bucket? With a blender.
How do you get them out? Doritos.
Babyritas all around! Woot!
i love you ivan… but no, and i mean no more dead baby jokes, or mutilated baby jokes, or any other baby jokes. we love rando too and that’s super touchy with him. k? can we snuggle now?
I’m with you on that one, Shortright.
Crap. I wasn’t thinking about Rando when I typed it. I’m sorry brother!
Come snuggle me, shorty my little kumquat. I feel like a shítheel now.
*giggles*
you said kum again——-quat.
*snuggles ivan*
here, rest your head on my bosoms… that should help.
*goes into a coma*
*low, menacing growl*
I DID apologize. Right away, too! *whimper*
Which is I why I did a low, menacing growl. I let you live. Next time you might not be so lucky. *puts wood chipper away*
hey now! no threatening my ivan… i will track you down. i know what general geographic region of your city that you live in. *scowls menacingly*
So one cuddles after the dead baby joke?!? I need to go back to sex ed.
*takes out a note pad and pen*
no no… i cuddle with ivan after being mean to him.
And I appreciate it. *sniffle*
Obviously your mother though differently. And where does it say ‘viable’? And who decides who is ‘viable’ and who is not? Why, if one kills a pregnant woman, can they be charged with ‘murder’ of the baby?? Shall we kill Stephen Hawking? Oh, yeah, he’s a genius – we can only kill stupid cripples …
Sheesh.
Is he not viable?
Without his respirator? Yeah, he would be non-viable if the battery died…
Thus proving that there’s many grown-up people who are actually not viable (without the appropriate machines to keep them alive). That makes me believe that viability should not necessary be the main factor in deciding if abortions should be legal or not, because by that analogy you could also say that the “abortion” (meaning switching off the machine) of non-viable grown-ups could be made legal.
It is – or at least you can kill them by starvation or dehydration – as in the case of Terry Schiavo
A fetus IS viable as long as no one rips it out from it’s mother’s womb.
*low, menacing growl…again* I think you need to reconsider how you phrased that. If something has gone wrong, sometimes ending the pregnancy or delivering the baby are the only options. Don’t judge people without knowing what they are going through.
I’m not judging anyone. That is not my point, a fetus is viable inside the mother where it’s supposed to be. I understand there are cases like rape and incest or the life of the mother at risk that make ripping it out necessary. Let’s not make believe that that’s not what is happening. You aren’t removing an abnormal growth.
n00bs, you need to go google the following terms: hydatidiform mole, placenta previa, anencephaly and gastroschisis. Then you can come back and have an intelligent conversation.
Those are not part of a normal pregnancy.
“Normal” gets interesting connotations when dealing with medicine. Work in the medical field, and you will find out that ‘normal’ is a blessing. There is a lot of nasty sh!t that happens to ‘perfectly normal’ people and their families. More that you are aware, probably because you are young and still relatively naive.
I’m 52 years old and I worked in the medical field in college. I used to draw blood from newborns, heel sticks. I still cringe thinking about it. Anyway, I’ve stated this in here before, I have nothing against abortion in the case of a womans health, rape or incest, what I object to is it being used as a form of birth control to make up for carelessness and irresponsibility.
So it’s strictly a matter of moral grounds for the abortion?
Carelessness, I agree. I don’t like the idea that some people can be casual about it. I do know a few women who have had abortions…and they agonized about the decision, which I believe is more typical.
But there is the fact that contraceptives are not 100% effective, which needs to be factored into the whole thing. Some women can and do raise an ‘oops baby’ with love. Some women realize that it just isn’t possible for them, for one reason or another.
There is always adoption in those cases. There are many couples looking for newbornsl so many they end up going to foreign countries, which isn’t a bad thing it just shows the demand is there.
Yes there is adoption–one of the most generous decisions which a woman can make.
However, pregnancy is not entirely benign. It is a strain on the heart, kidneys, pelvic structures and immune system. And there are increased risks of infection (as in the flu causing pneumonia), fistula, diabetes, stroke, and also of breast cancer becoming more aggressive. I do not judge a woman who decides not to continue a pregnancy, even if I would not make that choice.
That’s why I say we need exceptions for the health of the mother, most definitely. But for healthy young women who have had multiple abortions in the past, should we continue to allow it, if they are healthy and capable of giving birth? If we don’t allow an abortion and it is well known fact that they will have to carry to term an unwanted pregnancy, how might that change their behavior?
The multiple abortion gals will probably NOT change their behavior. A classmate of mine was forced by her parents to have the child at 16, taking off a semester from HS. She got pregnant again anyway…
I think that someone needs to create a form of gonad-lock, for both young men and young women. It can’t be removed until they have passed both maturity and mental stability tests. Might have prevented ‘balloon boy!’
lol! Gonad lock! I like it.
Those are interesting reading but they are not part of a normal pregnancy, which is what I was talking about.
No matter what your point is, your wording is fully loaded and is chock full of negative connotations for something that’s very often completely necessary.
Sorry Rando, I’ll try and use less loaded wording from now on. But it is a very negative subject matter.
viking gal you forgot myoptic (sp) pregnacy.
Myopia? I’m not sure what you are referring to…
Maybe ILPB meant ‘ectopic’? (In the fallopian tubes.)
I had early onset preeclampsia.
Ouch. My wife had preeclampsia with both of her first two pregnancies. That is dangerous stuff.
That’s why we only have one! Figured we couldn’t possibly be that lucky twice. He was only 1#15.5oz.
I’m guessing you spent a pretty abysmal amount of time in the hospital. My wife did. She held out until 33 weeks with my first daughter. That was the second pregnancy. In the first pregnancy it didn’t start until way later fortunately. With the 3rd pregnancy we were really really worried about it. Fortunately, that didn’t happen again. Unfortunately, something else did. :-\
Actually, no. Absolutely fine at 28 weeks; two days later in the hospital. Delivered at 30 weeks.
Now, the NICU, totally different story. 10.5 weeks. Note — always have girls. They do way better.
So glad for your first two; so sad for your third. What really sucks is the awful things people say. I actually had someone tell me that she ‘wouldn’t leave her baby in the hospital.’ I know you might not believe this, but I was actually speechless.
Mabsba, you sound like my first pregnancy. I had a perfect pregnancy up until the Saturday before my daughter was born. That’s when my BP shot up to dangerous levels and I went into pre-term labor. I didn’t know it, though, and didn’t go to the hospital until that Wednesday night. My daughter was born at 33 weeks and stayed in the NICU for 12 days (we got VERY lucky).
And to the woman who told you she’d never “leave her baby in the hospital”, tell her to kindly take a long walk off a short pier into shark-infested waters. You know as well as I do that having to leave your child is probably one of the hardest things you can do, aside from having to see them lay there hooked up to tubes and wires and not being able to hold them. So that lady can kindly go die.
Thanks, very kind of you. It really is something that you have to experience to truly understand. (“It’s a premie thing; you wouldn’t understand.”
).
We (the NICU moms) actually had a contest for the stupidest thing we’d heard each week.
Your child must be older than mine (16) or you had a very out of touch NICU, because our NICU strongly encouraged holding your premie kangeroo style on your bare chest (upper chest, down, boys). Your heartbeat and breathing helps them regulate theirs.
Mine is actually 17 months old, lol. She was hooked up to a feeding tube, heartrate monitor, several IVs, and a bunch of other wires, and it wasn’t possible to pick her up without dislodging stuff. We were able to hold her after three days, so it wasn’t too bad. The worst part was the IV in the head
Yeah that’s it. Sorry not really up to all medical speak. But how many men know about that thing, that aren’t Drs.
That’s OK, knowing the concepts is more to the point.
Hey, absolutely not being critical; just hoping to be hlepful. The medical jargon sticks better when you’re raised by a medical practitioner, I think.
May I growl along with you? We were fortunate enough that we did not have to, as noobs so elegantly puts it, ‘rip out’ our much awaited baby, but as you so sadly know, that was luick — good for us, bad for you.
For those who tell you to suck it up, whack them on the head for me.
The “rip it out” response was in response to someone in here who said a fetus was nothing but a “growth” or something of that nature. Just tit for tat. *sigh* Yes, I said “tit”!!
Come back when you can ask questions in something like English or LOLspeek, huh. You know, one of the languages that I actually speak. And leave the straw men at home when you do.
My mother is pro-choice, dingbat.
My mother was even adopted and is pro-choice.
Viability, huh? Since you asked: Viability is generally considered to be at minimum around 23-24 weeks during pregnancy. After that you’re viable. If you’re born before that, you’re gonna die. Period. Next question.
Rando: Do you think a fetus before 23-24 weeks is a parasyte? To me it’s a human. It always will be a human. I think that people probably need to live through the lose of a pregnacy and realize where some animosity comes from. When you are trying and hoping and wishing that life will come to you and your spouse, while other people are destroying what’s growing inside of them as a form of birth control there is a bitterness. And yes I’m Pro-choice and adopted as well.
I also know that there are times abortion is necessary. Incest, rape, life of the mother, life of the child (ie some children don’t form lungs that can function outside the womb and die a slow painful death.
ILPB… lemme clue you in on something.
rando and his wife lost their daughter a little over 6 months ago. she was VERY preemie, i think like around the 23-24 week range (i don’t remember all the details). trying to argue with him saying that he doesn’t understand and making it seem like he thinks babies are parasites is NOT going to win you any friends, especially with rando.
he has lived through the loss and is living through it every day. your comment is a bit of a slap in the face and i really hope that you feel like shit about it now knowing his background.
No I don’t feel like shit. I’m sorry for his loss, but in my wife and I lost two children to miscarriage. His comment about nothing is viable before 23 weeks to me is wrong. To me the children were viable as soon as conception.
So now that you know my history perhaps you might want to change your tone.
Isn’t “viable” and “viability” the term used to say “able to survive outside the mother”? I get a feeling you are reacting to some other definition of the word, which given the nature of the discussion, probably is not the intended one?
There is the medical term viable, legal term viable, and personal interpretation of viable. I don’t think the medical definition should be used in terms of legal terms, b/c then it makes a child younger than 23 weeks a parasyte, which I find highly offensive. It’s a child from conception.
The viability makes a hell of a difference when it comes to how you handle any form of needed ending of pregnancy though, I’d think.
I can appreciate where you’re coming from, but in this context, “viable” has a very specific, clinical meaning. Using it properly doesn’t have any moral connotations, or imply that you don’t consider the embryo or fetus to not be a child.
(A good college friend of mine just delivered at 23 weeks and lost her son. I know you’re not trying to be insensitive, but if I heard you speaking that way in person, I’d deck you.)
mark this on your calendar folks…
dhoti, i completely agree with you.
Stopped clock, right twice a day, etc.
Once again, I hate clinical terms. Also he didn’t say clinically. He just said viable in reaciton to Noob.
You know, when I was discussing gestational age in my definition of viability, it should’ve been pretty fvcking obvious where I was going with that. When you have a loss that’s just a few weeks shy of viability, that’s the only definition you think of. I didn’t even know there were other definitions of it.
I can see where you’re coming from. I know when the subject comes up, I often come out swinging. But at the very least, you could’ve ASKED before cutting me down.
no, i won’t be changing my tone. before 23/24 weeks the fetus is NOT viable. it can NOT survive AT ALL. it isn’t a parasite, it’s just not viable. it’s a fetus or embryo or whatever other term is used to describe it at that stage of development… but it can not survive.
and while it’s sad that you and your wife had those miscarriages you made yourself out to be a complete and total asshole by putting words into rando’s mouth that he never said. any sympathy people may have had for your loss went right out the window because you attacked someone who has MANY times here stated his loss.
also, this might be insensitive (not too worried about it though)… but did you HOLD your miscarried children? i saw the photos of rando and his wife holding their daughter during the 2 hours she was alive. it was heartbreaking. it was a horrible situation but she had no chance to survive. she was not viable. rando knows this, which is why he was so adamant about viability… he knows it first hand.
you’re considering conception to be akin to viability which is wrong in any number of ways that people more scientific than i will certainly point out to you.
Original: Rando was using a clinical term. I don’t like the coldness that clinical terms bring.
I didn’t attack Rando, I attacked his saying that a child is not viable before 23 weeks. He didn’t say clinically he just said viable. And no I wasn’t being an asshole b/c I didn’t know of Rando’s loss (take a look been gone for quite a few months and haven’t been on most posts dealing with abortion), but I still would have asked the question due to the lack of adjective “clinical”. You can say I should have assumed that, but when you assume you make an ass out of u and me.
No unfortunately I never got the chance to hold my child. I never got a chance to feel his or her heart beat next to mine and tell him/ her in person how much I love him or her. I was robbed of that. Just b/c I didn’t get to hold my child, doesn’t mean my pain was any less.
Clinically I know about viablity too. The pregnancies wouldn’t have been lost if the child was “viable” to gorw to full term. I hate clinical terms in that way, to me it seems more cold. Rando is not a cold person at all.
Once again: Clinically yes viability at conception is wrong, but emotionally viability is akin to that fact there was life, which makes it viable. So get off your high horse of: “My clinical definition is correct and trumps your emotional definition”. Who’s being more of an asshole now, me or you? You’re attacking someone who has lost too, and reacting to his feelings b/c of such loss. Especially someone who did not know of Rando’s loss.
oh, i know i’m an ass. just letting you know that you are too.
and it was fvcking obvious rando meant clinically viable. there’s no reason to bring emotionally viable into a discussion where no one was talking in terms of emotion…
lemme rephrase… there would have been no reason for rando to start talking about “emotional viability” when everyone else was talking about “clinical viability”. i get that it’s an emotional topic… i wasn’t trying to say that emotions should be checked at the door. just that it was clear what everyone was talking about and you seemed to be the only one who didn’t get the memo.
Well I’ll talk to my administrative assistant about not getting the memo.
Seriously though, words have certain clicks in people, and to try and belittle their feelings of such words really makes you lower than that person. You took cheap shots at me b/c you were trying to defend your friend, but by doing so you invalidated their pain to a point. Trying to make someone feel like shit for the sake of making them feel like shit is really just horrible.
When Ivan made his joke, he knew of Rando’s pain, and from the posts y’all had asked him not to make that joke before, however he gets a minor slap. You went out of your way to be an ass to me. You could have simply just said, Rando had a loss, I believe your response is inappropriate, however you really just went straight to witch mode. Why didn’t you with Ivan?
i didn’t with ivan because i knew that ivan meant nothing by it. he posted what he thought was funny. he hasn’t done that sort of thing before so there was no reason to jump in his shit and freak out on him. the main reason i came down harshly at all on ivan was that there was a poster here who went by the name “Dead Baby Jokes” for a few weeks and he posted the most repulsive jokes about dead babies for weeks on end. and he followed rando around knowing what it was doing to him.
when DBJ first come out a bunch of regulars chipped in our “favorite” dead baby jokes. everyone’s heard them. some are kinda funny. but after we saw what happened with rando and how it affected him we swore off dead baby jokes as tasteless and hurtful to another regular.
my response to ivan was nipping in the bud any chance of those sort of jokes coming back.
i wasn’t an all out ass to you until you tried to rationalize yourself. at first i was explaining rando’s situation to you and saying that putting words in his mouth (you saying he thought fetus’ were parasites before the viable stage) wasn’t going to win you any friends. when you started rationalizing and picking fights i got bitchy. it happens. notice, danbala and dhoti BOTH thought you were being an ass. they’re about as polar opposite of posters here as you can get.
when you’ve got BOTH sides against you in a discussion, you’ve done something wrong. i’m just enough of an ass to not state it nicely. i don’t care what you (or most other people here) think of me. you have no idea who i am or anything like that so why should i have to mince words?
I also didn’t jump all over Ivan because I could tell he felt bad about it. Ivan and I are good friends on here, and I know he wouldn’t make those jokes just to cut me down. Also the last time the DBJ’s popped up I reacted very emotionally during a rather rough time dealing with this, and I almost wrote off a number of good people for making (no offense guys) a stupid mistake. I gave him a little shit for it as a reminder of my low tolerance for such jokes, but like shortright said, I knew he didn’t mean to be an ass (that time
).
Tbh, I didn’t so much think ILPB was being an ass, but I thought he was barking up the wrong tree.
Danabla I don’t bark I howl!!!
And since I’m the subject of this, let me chime in. I wasn’t around during the DBJ incident(s?) so I never knew about it. And then, I had forgotten about Randos baby. So I posted a stupid joke. Shortright reminded me about Rando, and I immediately apologized.
YOU on the other hand, seem determined to be a douche.
Here’s a definition of viable as related to babies: Capable of living outside the uterus. Used of a fetus or newborn.
I’m sorry for your losses, but I was talking specifically about the clinical definition of viability. You can’t apply your perception to a clinical term and assume shit about me. In fact, your definition of viable has nothing to do with the word “viable.” If you wanted to say they were babies, I’m cool with that. If you wanted to say their lives have value, I’m totally cool with that too. And FTR, my daughter was born at 20 weeks…3 weeks shy of viability, and not a miscarriage but a live birth. No, she wasn’t viable. No, there wasn’t anything we could do for her. Yes, we had to sit there and watch her die. How wonderful of you to judge me without knowing anything about me.
Why don’t they just say “viable outside the womb”? Wouldn’t that be much clearer? Because the dictionary definition of viable is: the ability to live and succeed. If a fetus remains inside womb it is capable of living and succeeding. That’s the point I was trying to make. Sorry for the complete dust up in here and I had NO idea about all the personal life experiences. I have them too I just don’t feel comfortable sharing them.
One dictionary definition of viable is:
“(of a fetus) having reached such a stage of development as to be capable of living, under normal conditions, outside the uterus.”
(Which seems a bit wrong too – mostly viability in regards to pregnancies and prenatal kids is survival outside the uterus, even if the conditions aren’t normal. :p)
My guess is that is probably a very recent definition of the word, probably come into existance by shortening of the phrase “viable outside the womb”. But yes, I saw that one too.
I agree that it would be better for clarity if the longer phrase was used.
The context should be pretty obvious.
To some people, and especially the people that were in here yesterday (the “growth” people), it was not. I felt it was worth pointing out.
Fair enough. Like I’ve said a couple times, I haven’t liked the way a lot of things have been said on here from either side of the issue. *shrug*
Do I think a WHAT is a WHAT? Shortright already said a lot about it, but NO, I don’t think it’s a parasite. Viability for a fetus is 23 weeks. I don’t know why the fvck you thought I meant anything else. If you read any of my posts later in this thread, you would see the conflict I feel over the abortion topic for the very reasons you describe. How wonderfully insensitive and stupid of you to assume that I thought babies were parasites and that I don’t know how that pain feels. I feel that pain every day of my life.
glad i could fight the fight for you while you were at work.
Rando: Written before you saw my apology, but I wasn’t judging you. Actually most of what I wrote was to the people who try and use abortion as a from of birth control. Also I did not know of your loss or else I wouldn’t have written what I wrote.
Once again sorry. Trust me I do feel bad, and part of my pig headed defensive pride of original trying to say I should feel like shit, made me more assholish.
Apology accepted. It’s a touchy topic for sure.
Understood. I think touchy on both sides. However bottom line is I think we’re in such agreement. Two father’s that love their children. Though I’m not religious I know that you are, so God bless you and your family.
**Slides Rando his favorite beer**
Actually Obama supported/supports partial birth abortions which actually are the killing of a viable human being.
In Texas, if you kill someone who is pregnant you will be charged with two murders.
He also supports leaving live babies that are a result of a failed abortion to die.
And how many weeks are these babies left to die, may I ask?
How many weeks OLD are these babies is what I meant.
That shouldn’t matter.
If they’re under 23 weeks, they’re not gonna live anyway, that’s my point.
That’s a lie. He supports putting them in a Cuisinart and force-feeding them to starving supermodels. Get your facts straight.
in ohio too… but i think the baby has to be a certain number of weeks before it’s considered it’s own murder.
Partial-birth abortions actually don’t EXIST. Seriously, they were made up by the forced-birther lot to give something else to accuse women of.
What does exist is an intact D&X, where the fetus is killed, then taken out in parts, and is ONLY EVER DONE IN RARE MEDICAL CONDITIONS WHERE THE WOMAN’S LIFE IS AT RISK.
Remember, if you ban all late-term abortions you are condemning women to death. Which means you can’t be pro-life and do that.
That sounds lovely. Anyway, you very much can be against late-term abortions with the exception of the case where a womans life is in danger. That means real danger, no not to her mental health or the fact that she may be depressed if she gives birth. There is always adoption if she doesn’t want the child.
Can you find a single example of a late-term abortion where the woman’s life wasn’t in real danger? Just one.
“In 2008, there were 192 abortions involving fetuses who were more than 22 weeks old and who were deemed viable.
Of those, literally none were aborted to save the life of the mother.”
The article goes on to say that they were aborted to save the mother emotional and metal distress. Then it goes on to some legal mumbo jumbo that says it was probably legal.
Let’s see a link to that article.
I happen to know of one done in 2008 that was done to save the life of the mother (someone I know personally – the fetus had developed a growth and the size of the growth was accelerating), so I’m going to have to call BS on that “study”.
That’s a total red herring and bullsh!t anyway.
The life and health of the mother may be a good reason to remove a fetus from the mother’s body, but how does that justify killing it without giving it the opportunity to survive?
About 20 to 35 percent of babies born at 23 weeks of pregnancy survive, while about 50 to 70 percent of babies born at 24 to 25 weeks, and more than 90 percent born at 26 to 27 weeks, survive. Stat from March of Dimes, here.
*puts his liberal card on the line*
I don’t support abortion if the baby is viable and can be saved. I think if the baby can be saved then there is no reason to not save the child.
*puts his liberal card on the line*
when the hell did you steal that back from me?! you sneaky bastard…
I got a new one. Reported the first one stolen. I wouldn’t try to use the old one if I were you.
you baaaaaaastard. i’m gonna have to start paying full price at the movies and starbucks. dammit.
Don’t forget Trader Joes and Whole Foods.
*hugs*
Yes — I know it’s chancy at the preemie stage, but I think they should at least GET the chance.
Sadly, even at the point of viability the chances aren’t great. You already posted the statistics. And that’s just survival. That doesn’t include quality of life.
True that. Too many people don’t know, or don’t care about that little detail.
I know a couple who had a child that had 0% chance to live. They gave birth, the doctor didn’t even take measurements, just cleaned up the child a bit wrapped it in a towel and then handed to child to the couple. 10 minutes later the child was dead. Abortion never entered their mind for the fact that they wanted the child to know what it is like to be held and loved prior to dying. I don’t know if I could have their strength.
Strength has nothing to do with it. You do it out of love. You do it because you know it’s the right thing. But I can guarantee you that there isn’t anything strong about it. Emotional strength is a myth when this happens to you. In fact, the worst thing anyone can say to someone suffering through this is “be strong.” And that child had the perfect life, as short as it was. For his/her 10 minute life (and say him/her, saying “it” is horribly insensitive, btw), he/she knew nothing but the love of his/her parents. That’s all my daughter knew for the 2 hours she lived. The intense amount of love her mother and father have for her, and I hope she can still feel it now in heaven.
I’m sure she does. I’m sorry for your lose. I’m sorry about “it” but the child actually had no gender (didn’t form from the waist down). Meant no disrespect there, should have said child vice it.
And I’m sorry, but I think it is strength. You are strong with love, b/c there are some couples out there who would not or could not deal with that loss (hence some late term abortions). I just state it would be the hardest thing in my life to deal with.
I understand what you mean, but the last thing I’ve felt the last 8 months is strong.
You still wake up in the morning. From some of your posts you still fill joy for others, and smile. You seem to be there for your wife. You still hold your faith. To me definition of strong.
I’m going to have to agree with ILPB here Rando — you and your wife are incredibly strong just to be keeping going. This might sound goofy since I don’t really know you guys in real life, but I do pray for your family. *hugs*
Clueless – you are UTTERLY clueless.
Do you realize that these ‘at risk’ mothers are usually IN LABOR when these ‘fetuses’ are killed? The child’s head is born, then they stab forceps into the base of the brain to kill it. And I got that info from a DOCTOR WHO ACTUALLY PERFORMS THE PROCEDURE!
If a woman can survive the abortion, she can survive a C section – and adopt the child out.
Do you even realize what you have admitted by saying THEY WERE KILLED!!!! You can’t kill something that was not alive.
Ok, I call BS on that one. Prove it, you insensitive fu(kweasel.
Maybe you’d like a parasite stuck in your abdomen, but where I come from you’re able to get medical care for liver damage, so I don’t see why you can’t get similar care for other problems that come from a night of drinking too much.
I see your point, but I find a real problem with thinking of a life (whether you think of it at that moment or in the future) as a simple little mistake, like throwing up after leaving the bar.
It’s a gray area for me if there are real complications from the pregnancy, but sometimes you just need to grow up and take responsibility. Maybe have a couple beers instead of getting wasted and leaving with somebody.
A tape worm is a life, too. Your point is?
So your entire argument is
tape worm = baby
Why do you ask me what my point is?
As far as I’m concerned, tape worm would indeed = baby. I don’t want the baby, so it’s nothing more than a biological organism stealing nutrients away from me. I have no reason to think of it as my son or daughter, especially during a time where it hasn’t even developed to the point to classify as a sentient being.
Based on what you’ve posted here, I have my doubts that you’re fully sentient yourself, and I’m sure that you’re a net loss for society. Does that mean that I’m allowed to shoot you?
Well, seeing as I’m not capable of consciousness, perception, or thought, then I guess so. Yes, you are allowed to shoot me.
They are sentient. I have watched videos of babies being aborted and pulling away from the sharp instruments they are being stabbed with.
People who think like you are the reason many people are turning away from the abortion movement. For a while it was gaining momentum because all the pro-abortion people would talk about is the rape and incest victims or the deformed babies that were being spared by abortion. When that is the topic it is easier to fall for that line even though they only make up a very small portion of the abortions that are performed.
I don’t have any sympathy for someone who chooses to go out and get drunk and have a one night stand and oops, get pregnant. Maybe if you didn’t want to have a baby you shouldn’t have let a complete stranger impregnate you to begin with. Maybe if you aren’t ready to have a baby you shouldn’t be having sex yet, and especially not with a stranger you just met at a bar. It’s science, the seed and the egg get together and form a baby. Amazing. It’s science that is so simple you can even understand it when you are drunk.
If you aren’t ready for a baby, just quit being such a whore.
*waits for a wannabe feminist to say that personal responsibility is a medieval chauvinistic tool of male oppression*
PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY IS A MEDIEVAL FEMINISTIC TOOL OF MATRIARCHAL OPPRESSION!
I’ll be sure to print out your tirade and hand it over to the nearest whore. There aren’t any brothels here, so I’ll have to comb the streets. Because I want her to know that she doesn’t have your sympathy. I’m sure it’s a big concern for her.
Cite sources for your first statement. The time period seems to be around 8-12 weeks where they can obtain sentience.
By the way, this might come as a surprise to you, but your actions and faculties are, in fact, inhibited when you’re drunk. How does this condom work? Did I take a pill today? Do I even remember that night? How do I know I wasn’t raped? Gee, I dreamed I was in a really crazy porno last night and…
Guest, there ARE people who end up with unintended pregnancies that aren’t “whores”.
However, I’d say that if you’re mature enough to be having sex, you should be mature enough to deal with the natural consequences and mature enough to deal with birth control.
Also, if you aren’t ready for a baby, there’s plenty of people who would be happy to have one but can’t. Adoption is a good solution.
Really? I wasn’t aware the orphanages had a lack of babies. Especially black babies. Those get adopted quick, right?
(By the way, I never foresee myself in the situation to have an unintended pregnancy, drunk or not, but if I did, I really wouldn’t want to spend a good portion of a year just to throw my unwanted bundle into an orphanage and run.)
Don’t be an idiot. There are lots and lots of people who can’t have people that are trying to adopt.
Actually, healthy babies of any race are pretty much in demand, it’s the kids who have extensive special needs or who need an adoptive family at an older age that they have such a hard time placing.
Some states still discriminate against white families adopting black or even mixed-race babies, though, which is in my opinion something that needs to be changed.
In other words, the only way something has value is if it’s potentially useful to you, personally.
I can’t *wait* to hear your views on Social Security and Medicare.
I hear something completely different than you guys, then. But it might just be my state, as you suggest Diss. They have a lot of children that aren’t adopted, and non-white babies are the least adopted. But the way I’ve heard it, it was mostly because of pure supply/demand. The black ones just don’t get adopted.
I just checked my states DHS search engine for kids adoptable through the state. The youngest is 10. I don’t think we have any babies languishing in orphanages…
You know what? This is probably the first abortion discussion where I’m pretty sure that both sides are complete retards between guest calling all women who unintentionally get pregnant whores to Classicist calling babies tapeworms, I’m pretty sure this is the slimiest discussion of this topic I’ve ever seen. I’m horrified by what I’m reading here on both sides. All of the extremists here have done absolutely NOTHING to further their views, and are an embarrassment to those who share said views. Fvcking pathetic.
agreed.
You could be right, but still there have been some good and valid points made.
Which have been almost completely obliterated by the slime and crap.
Thank you, HelOn. Most of what I’ve heard is snarky propagandist bullshit from both sides. I didn’t need to hear about guest watching videos about babies being aborted (who the fvck would watch something like that anyway? OMG). I also didn’t need to hear Classicist calling babies tapeworms. And you, n00bs, have suffered from the same lack of tact while using some of the same melodramatic crap that guest uses. This is a horrible conversation. I have barely seen any good or valid points, and definitely not from you, guest, Classicist, or a couple other people that really do sound pro-abortion instead of pro-choice (parasite??? seriously??????). You are all a detriment to your cause.
Oh, and thank you too, shortright. I didn’t forget you.
Rando, you were correct in your observation of this “discussion”. You pointed out all the reasons why I could not join in; it was all too awful/detrimental/sickening to either side and to my personal beliefs. Oh, and thank YOU for speaking up.
*golf claps, Rando*
Well said, friend!
I honestly just wasn’t in the mood for a non-slime discussion yesterday. Usually I’d be a little more civil, but I didn’t really care at the moment as I really just in a bit of a trolling mood.
Not apologizing for it. The abortion “debate” is one of the most pointless in my opinion. I honestly don’t see it as being anything BUT a trolling topic.
I’ll have to go with “guest” on this one, coz he’s right!
i’d just change “whore” into “loose-booty-gal”
Classicist, that we can agree on. It does tend to be a VERY pointless argument.
Don’t have intercourse.
Ah, shit, i’m awaiting moderation for saying f.uck.
And if you’re raped? The answer is not “use protection”, because no means of contraception is 100% effective. One of my nephews is proof of that, since he was conceived despite my cousin being on the Pill, and her BF using a condom.
…or they both lied to you.
Rape and incest account for less than 1% of the abortions in the U.S.
Antibiotics while on the pill count for babies. The doctors tend to forget to tell their patients about that little fact. Ooops?
my SIL was born 17 years after her next biological sibling. mom had her tubes tied, dad had been snipped and mom was on the pill for hormone stuff. and yet my SIL will be 30 in january.
shit happens.
unless you’re not fu(king, you’re running the risk of getting pregnant. simple enough.
… or they all lied to you.
her mom is too nuts to lie… literally. bipolar and a bit schizophrenic. sad, really.
…so maybe she told you a lie without knowing it!
She’s kin to my exwife?
your ex wife have family in the phoenix area?
I think they are only kin in the mental problems area.
You know, I don’t know these people, and I know all sterilization procedures have a risk of failure, but it seems like the odds of BOTH of them failing would be infinitesimal. In other words, my first impulse is to think her dad’s probably not her dad.
… or her mom’s not her mom?
… or she isn’t herself?
What’s more, the odds of that birth meeting with a similarly unlikey birth story by paws4thot on the same LOL are even more infinitesimal. In other words, my first impulse is to think some people lied to others.
Momma’s baby, Daddy’s maybe.
seeing as how they went through a spectacularly messy divorce several years after my SIL was born they did the testing. dad was in fact dad and he got custody.
Sterilizations are not 100%. Only 99.999% effective. Someone has to be that 0.001% person!
Using abortions as birth control is what I object to. Rape cases are somewhere below 10%.
exactly. i don’t like abortion. at all. but i understand there are certain RARE circumstances where it is appropriate (rape, incest, serious health risk to the mother, etc). but when i graduated high school with a girl who had already had 3 abortions it was disgusting. use a condom. get on the pill. use the depo shot. there are SO many ways to avoid that situation and so many people don’t care and just use abortion as birth control. it’s sick.
You just don’t believe in a womens rights is all that is.
*sarcasm*
I just get tired of being told that.
me too. which is why i usually don’t state my views on abortion around people i actually know in person… i live in super-liberal-ville and i get looked at like i’ve got a 3rd eye if i say things like that.
I feel your pain.
bitter troll will feel other parts of you
if ya have a pressing urge, use a dildo for ***sakes.
Right. And what about when the boyfriend has a pressing urge–should she ’service’ him? Or maybe do something mutually pleasurable? And what about his responsibility to the situation? He could be wearing a condom, after all!
He could wank after all. I never said males had no responsibility in this.
I think most of us females would appreciate that inclusion. The argument tends to all be framed in what the woman could/should/must do, leaving the source of the sperm out of the discussion. And yet if the guy was not part of the situation…well…she’d be a lesbian, and it wouldn’t need to be discussed at all!
I knew girls like that in college too. How many abortions can you have? Just be responsible and use something already or stop having intercourse. There are other options folks…
Well yes, a good portion of these kids are stupid or irresponsible. The guy says he doesn’t want to wear a condom, and the girl goes on with it, which is unhealthy anyway unless they both have regular STD tests. Or the girl accidentally forgot one of the days of that week to take her pill (many types require you to have it 7 days straight and any skipping can make it fail) and instead of saying “no” says “well…the chances are slim, right?”.
But must WE suffer THEIR stupid progeny?
they’d need no std tests if they weren’t fuc.king around like the bunnies and hares.
Or shared needles, right?
why would they share needles?
Please keep your religious beliefs out of people’s bedrooms. It’s none of your business.
Problem is, they’re fu.cking around everywhere, by far not only in the bedrooms. And it’s not my religious beliefs, i’m not religious.
If they’re on your lawn, I suggest turning the hose on them.
Spray them with a bottle of water. That should make them stop.
Maybe we can spray them with liter fluid and throw out a match?
In noobs’ neighborhood, pets come in three varieties: Spayed, neutered, or extra-crispy.
i’m not sure what keith’s beliefs actually are… but i’m pretty sure this comment is just him being weird. he tends to do that.
no, it’s not me being weird either. (not weirder than usual). It’s just my opinion. And since I have the right to express my opinion, i chose to do so in people’s bedrooms, hehe.
“Weird” is not the term I would use.
I agree “wise” would be more appropriate.
There are plenty of people who don’t screw around for reasons that aren’t religious. It’s called responsibility and it doesn’t have to be for religious reasons.
One such reason is “I don’t want to have an abortion.”
Quote from HelOnWheels:”Please keep your religious beliefs out of people’s bedrooms. It’s none of your business.”
Tell that to the gays who shove their lifestyle choices in my face…
For that matter, when my tax dollars pay for their abortional birth control or their welfare babies, if becomes my business. An if Obama get his universal health care in – it wil be the Government’s business – wait and see.
Dear Trivial,
Like you don’t shove your hetero lifestyle choices in people’s face? Please, don’t fvckin lie.
And why would gays need abortional birth control? Really, do you know anything about the how being gay works??
Virgins do catch STD’s from their first partner. So, watch the judgment a bit…
Virgins can also catch STDs from a toilet seat, handshake, kissing, neighborhood pets……………..
Wrong, if the first partner wasn’t fuc.king around like the hares and bunnies, virgins wouldn’t catch std’s from their first partner. I was right in my judgment.
Yes b/c you are who you choose to be with. Wow Keith you are a judgemental little fairy aintcha?
yes, and my breath smells of petunias!
And of course those virgins’ partners NEVER lie about previous experience, right?
/snark
I’m married and got an abortion because hey, my birth control must have failed.
I never want kids but I get a little tired of people telling me that I *must* have one or else just forgo sex for the rest of my life…
Well that’s what sex is for. If you don’t want one, use masturbation if you can’t live without *arousal*, that’s what it’s for.
“Masturbation is cheap, clean, convenient, and free of any possibility of wrong-doing–and you don’t have to go home in the cold. But it’s lonely.”
She can still masturbate and then have a chat with her husband.
So the guy doesn’t get off but he STILL has to cuddle?
The guy own’s a 5 grand electrosex machine, don’t pity him!
Now you’re just being contrary.
Contrary of what?
To Lazarus Long!
To biggus dickus?
Do you find this wisible?
I’m inclined to agree that you shouldn’t have children. You sound like you’d be a nightmare of a parent, and it’s good that you know your limitations.
You’ll find that although it’s a bit of a pain in the abdominal area, tubal ligation (while also not 100% in all cases) is quite effective.
Here’s a question I’ve had for years. Why will no doctor perform a tubal ligation or vasectomy unless the person has at least two biological children?
We have 1 child (who is 23 years old) and have yet to find a doctor willing to do either a tubal or vasectomy. Insurance won’t cover it, unless you have two children, so I’m sure that’s part of it… but what’s the deal? Why risk forcing couples who want no, or no more, children to have abortions instead of performing sterilizations?
Just curious. And I’ve never heard a satisfactory reason given.
You shouldn’t have a problem with this. My husband got a vasectomy when our one child was MUCH younger than yours. And our insurance paid. (Presbyterian, btw, in case you want to try shopping around.) They only asked if we were sure that we didn’t want any more kids.
It will be easier to get a vasectomy than a tubal ligation since vasectomies are usually reversible. Try shopping around, if you haven’t. Definitely avoid Catholic (or even some other denomiations) hospitals, etc.
Maybe it’s where you live? Hey, if your kid is 23, you (your wife? — don’t know which one you are!) should be old enough that your primary doctor will refer one of your for sterilization based on maternal age.
Good luck … because you are absolutely in the right!
Yeah, shop around.
Also–point out to your insurance representative that a vasectomy costs a lot less to THEM than another pregnancy-plus-pediatric care would. That ought to catch their attention!
We have military insurance. They won’t bend the rules. At all. Oh well, my wife is already starting to have hot flashes, so maybe it won’t be an issue much longer
I have to admit I had NO idea about that! Seems pretty bogus to me…never came up for me as I’d had more than 2 kids when I wanted to get my tubal but I would’ve been pissed if they’d questioned the validity of it as a covered procedure. What part of “it will probably save them money” does the insurance company NOT understand?
Umm…be careful what you assume. Stray eggs can appear quite late in life.
I would just go ahead and pay out of pocket — it’s not that expensive (at least for guys). I know Planned Parenthood does everything sliding scale if money is an issue. Actually, most places that offer reproductive services do — despite what some people think, their goal is to NOT have any unwanted pregnancies.
Sorry that your insurance is stupid.
Wow, that’s seriously messed up. Funny story: Last fall I scheduled a vasectomy for December. My wife got pregnant in October. How’s that for irony?
Better than her getting pregnant in January.
I had a good friend who’s wife got pregnant after her tubal ligation! (A one in a million chance… something about an egg surviving in the bottom part of the tube after the procedure). The poignant part is that the baby had Downs Syndrome. Sweet kid, but a lot to handle at that stage in their lives, when they had been thinking that their family was complete…
What? Your child is 23, and you’re still having sex???
LOL! I know! Who would guess?
My child isn’t born yet, and I already quit sex.
Legal definition and type of rape varies. Some states do include that if the woman has had any alcohol before intercourse, she can press charges for alcohol facilitated rape. Ergo, my scenario of drunk one night applies.
Cite. 10% of what? Reasons for abortion?
Yes, a very small portion of abortions are due to rape or incest. Most are for convenience.
Rapists must be really nice where you’re from. They usually don’t give girls the option of protection over here.
*winces* This conversation has taken an unfortunate turn.
Tell ya what. The moment that unborn fetus gets the right to vote, and drink a beer and serve in the military, I will protect it’s right to choose. Until then, the only person who should have the right to choose what happens to it is the one who is giving up a portion of THEIR life just to keep it around.
For all intensive purposes, up until the time when a baby comes out, they are PARASITES. Even after they are for a short while. Granted, they eventually form a fully fledged human being, but up until then, they are just vaguely human shaped parasites infesting their mothers. What about the rights of ring worms? What right do you have to kill them? Or fleas? What about those ticks? You murdering fool!
too bad your mother didn’t feel that way.
*slaps the sh!t out of Tseran*
It’s “For all intents and purposes.” Fvck, but I hate that.
Oh, and everything else you said, while a human fetus is wholly dependent on the mother’s body and therefore may meet the definition of “parasitic”, it’s not invasive but part of a normal bodily process. I’m very sorry it happened to your mom, though.
See, you think you’re trying to sound all cool and edgy, but really it just makes you sound like an ass fungus.
Wow, diss, that was intensive!
<blockquote]…it’s not invasive…
Months of sickness is not invasive?
Nor is the resulting tears in parts women do not want to have tears?
And the hormone imbalances surrounding the whole shebang?
Are you SuperWoman or something?
D’oh! Tag fail.
whoaa shite, blame it on Eve, she shouldn’t have listened to that snake.
Who puts the knowledge of good and evil in an apple, anyway? Queen Grimhilde?
It’s a necessary part of life for each of us. Not invasive doesn’t mean it’s necessarily pleasant; it means it’s a far different situation than having a tapeworm.
No! Duh. Wonder Woman.
Are you 12?
Nah, I thought about putting “Wonder Woman”, but “SuperWoman” (despite that she is actually “Supergirl”) felt more appropriate.
But unless you want that baby, I honestly don’t see how it’s that different. Whether its more normal and the body has mechanisms for that purpose or not, if it’s not wanted what then? Yes, it’s a fetus, and reproduction is necessary for the continuation of a race. But our race has progressed socially to the point that we don’t really need that much more addition to population. You have to add psychological and societal evolution on top of the biological, and those first two are much faster. So, to a point of view that can be taken, we can now think of properties to reproduction as superfluous since there’s so much population and birthing anyway. So people can be sterilized, they can use contraceptive, or, as the final option (before actually throwing the baby off the cliff or abandoning them) they can abort. And there are definitely people who think of those fetuses as just really terrible “mistakes”.
Look, I’m practical enough to realize that there are, in fact, circumstances in which an abortion is the logical option (in my opinion, fairly limited circumstances) but in my view, once it’s conceived and attached it’s a human life with value.
Rape, incest, serious maternal or fetal health problems, ok. “But I was going to go on vacation this summer!”, not so much ok by me.
The whole thing does, strangely enough, boil down to pure opinion. If a woman feels that she would rather not get an abortion, that’s absolutely her choice. However, wouldn’t it be better for those girls to go to a proper clinic than to shove up a wire themselves and scrape, which they will do if they don’t have other options? Or try to have the baby alone and then dump it in the dumpster?…
…(Behind the school on prom night)
Which is why although I wouldn’t choose it for myself and I’d be very sad if one of my daughters did, I grudgingly think elective abortions should be legal through about 10 weeks.
That’s why Classic’s line of thinking is so dangerous — it takes that sentiment of grudging acceptance and perverts it into something unrecognizable. Based on what he’s said, I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that he would be in favor of bringing immense cultural, societal, educational, and perhaps even economic pressures to bear to effectively force women to abort.
Classicist is where some pro-life people get the idea that pro-choice people are pro-abortion.
Sadly, I think there’s a specific, but substantial, group that are — geezers who went to grad school in the 70s, were indoctrinated with “population bomb” nonsense, and came out absolutely convinced that the world needs as few poor and black and brown people as possible. I realize that sounds incendiary, but I’m not just saying it to get people fired up; I really think that’s a core belief that motivates their actions. Sadly, a lot of these folks are in high-level government positions. (Yet another entry for my “the world will be a better place when the baby boomers are gone” file.)
I’ll give Classicist the benefit of the doubt and assume he’s not a geezer. Whether or not he sees himself as pro-abortion, not only does he seem to think that human life is only valuable if it’s “wanted” (and I don’t just mean the unborn), he doesn’t seem like he’s above forcing those views on the rest of us. That sort of selfish, casual dismissal of the intrinsic value of human life is something that I hope humanists of all stripes — indeed, most of society — can roundly reject.
I hate abortion. Absolutely fvcking hate it. But it does need to be legal. I can still hate it and support it being legal.
To be completely serious for a moment, I honestly don’t understand that disconnect. If I hate something that much, I want to see it ended. (Maybe the difference is that the things I hate that much are not only morally wrong to me, but also gravely harmful to others, and that puts it over my non-interference line.)
Maybe think of it like war.
Because sometimes it is necessary. The mother’s wellbeing is still a very real threat in many pregnancies. I don’t think it’s fair to make a mother keep a baby in the cases of rape and incest. Don’t think I take my stance on this subject lightly, because I definitely don’t.
Believe me, I don’t think you came to your opinion lightly — that’s why I want to find out more about what you think.
I meant to exclude those cases in my question, but I guess I forgot to put that in there. I don’t have a problem with allowing it for legitimate medical reasons, but I don’t like basing an entire policy on rape and incest, because my understanding is that they make up a very small fraction of the total. (I just did a quick search and found numbers for rape specifically between .35% and 1%; I can appreciate how difficult these figures must be to compute, but that sounds like the right ballpark to me. You might disagree.) In the end, though, any of these kinds of corner-case conditions can be written into the law, and I’d wager that most pro-lifers would support it.
So, let me limit my question to what I believe are the substantial majority of abortions, when it’s used as a form of early-term birth control. How does that affect your answer?
I was certainly glad that abortion was legal when my pregnancy became life-threatening…meant that only my husband and my doctor made that decision. (BTW, modern medicine rocks…he’s now 16.) And am still glad that it’s legal since my chances of dying in another pregnancy are about 80%. I have no intention of risking the life of the mother of the child I already chose to bring into this world. (Plus the hubby would be peeved about the lack of wife.)
I also know that over 25% of women who choose abortions were against abortion before they got pregnant, so I don’t take all these protestations from anti-abortionists too seriously. Come back when you’ve carried an unwanted baby to term; then we’ll chat. (Not pulling that # out of thin air — my mom ran a clinic for 8 years and that is the actual # from their abortion referrals.)
Also not saying you all would abandon your beliefs; it’s just very easy when you’re not tested. A bit like people who boast about staying clean in rehab.
Honestly? It sickens me. I hate abortion with all my heart. But, and you’re gonna get me for toeing the party line here, it’s up to women, not me. In a perfect world, there would be no abortions because there would be no unwanted pregnancies. It sounds trite, but I really don’t believe in being able to legislate what a woman can do with her body. I firmly believe that a baby of viable age should be saved if at all possible. I also think that if we outlawed all but the life threatening abortions that we would go back to back alley abortions. If someone doesn’t want to be pregnant, she will find a way to not be pregnant, legally or otherwise.
So, like I said before, I don’t like it, but I begrudgingly think it should stay legal because the alternatives are worse to me. The old “necessary evil” bit.
Are you arguing that, because abortion may be occasionally medically necessary, it should be kept available as a method of early-term birth control when it’s not medically necessary? That’s the connection I’m missing.
It seems a bit like you’re arguing that chemotherapy drugs should be available over the counter because you may desperately need them if you ever get cancer.
I realize my post was probably a little all over the place. I didn’t really organize my thoughts before typing them. It should be kept legal in non-medically necessary situations because women should be able to control what is going on with their bodies. I do have to separate my own personal morals from the subject to believe in this, though. Ultimately, I think that a woman’s right to do with her body as she pleases (including what’s inside it) outweighs my own personal views on the matter. I don’t know if that clears it up any, but that’s about the best I can do. I’ll admit to being rather conflicted on the subject due to my own experience, which we all know about.
Rando, my reply was to mabsba — I was posting from my phone on my way home, and that makes it tough to keep up with the conversation.
Thanks, in any event — I really do appreciate your candor.
@Dhoti:
I really had two points: first, if you start legislating rules for abortion, then YOU and everyone else who votes gets to be in on that decision … what right do you have to tell my doctor what to do?
Second, seriously, come back when you’ve faced the problem.
Regardless, the majority of abortions are not done as a primary form of birth control. And the overwhelming majority of people who choose abortions do not do so lightly. And this is not a ‘belief,; this is a fact. (Mom hated what then was called ‘problem pregnancy’ counseling — it was the hardest thing to do. But it HAD to be done.)
And, sorry, but, yes, I do toe the party line: as a woman, I will protest any law that says I have to bear a child because my birth control fails.
Mabsba, first, you’re missing the point of a medical exemption, which specifically allows doctors to do things that otherwise might be illegal. Happens all the time.
And second, this whole “your opinion doesn’t count” nonsense is just that — nonsense. Don’t you dare tell me that I don’t have a right to an opinion just because I don’t share your sex organs, your socioeconomic status, your background, or whatever it is you’re getting at.
Your distinction of “primary” birth control is irrelevant and disingenous. Sex, like anything else in life, has associated risks; it’s your responsibility, and your partner’s responsibility, as adults to make an informed decision on those risks going in. Why is birth control special? Why is a woman who uses any form of birth control entitled to 100% effectiveness? That’s not how anything else works in life. (And to be clear, I’m not talking about your specific situation, since a pregnancy for you would be life-threatening. I’m talking about the general case.)
To Rando: I agree mostly about the necesary evil, however I do think Father’s rights need to be addressed more. I don’t think it’s fair for a father to force woman to full term, however I also don’t think it’s fair for a mother to hold the child over a father (and sadly some women do do that in this world).
ILPB: That can be a bit of a no-win situation where the parents aren’t in tune on what they want to do.
Dhoti,
But of course, for men birth control is ALWAYS 100% effective because they can’t get pregnant. So they don’t risk being evicted or losing their jobs or their lives if the birth control fails (a woman here was beaten to death when her abusive partner found out she was pregnant). So total sexual freedom for them! You go, guys!
As for medical necessity, thanks very much, but I am not interested in you or any legislature deciding what determines medical necessity for me. That’s why I pay a doctor. Sorry I can’t remember the case, but just last year a judge ruled that an 11-year-old could not have an abortion because her mother did not consent — guess who the father of her child was? Her own father. Consider not even the emotional trauma or the genetic risks, but the very real physical risks of that child giving birth. (Fortunately the judge was over ruled.)
Mabsba, let me see if I understand you — because some dirtball can knock a woman up, skip town, and dodge child support, the law must give you the ability to effectively act the same way? What other laws can be treated the same way — would I be allowed to cash bad checks, too? I don’t see how this “least common denominator” approach is compatible with society at all, frankly.
I still think you’re missing the point of a medical exemption. (And to get back to my earlier point, why are you supporting your argument with such bizarre and infrequent examples? Again, I don’t see how an insane case of incest has any bearing on whether abortion should be available as birth control to women who aren’t the victims of incest.)
Let me try to be really clear: someone has to define medical exemption. The incest case I cited, where abortion would be considered a medical necessity by most doctors, is a perfect example of someone (the judge) with no medical training having the legal power to deny that medical exemption.
Re your first paragraph: I deny that it’s ‘acting effectively the same way.’ But that’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it.
What you didn’t respond to is how incredibly convenient it is that your choice gives men total sexual freedom and women none. You are saying that a woman cannot ever have sex with her legal husband unless she is willing to be forced to bear an accidental pregnancy to term. What a sucky world for women. (And their husbands!)
If the dirtball successfully skips town, then as far as he’s concerned, the kid no longer exists. If the woman has an early-term abortion, then the kid really no longer exists. Either way, the outcome is “no kid”. How is that different?
Ah, now we’re getting to what you truly believe! No, I didn’t respond to that argument, because you’re just now making it. (And let’s put your inflammatory terminology to rest: we’re excluding rape and incest, so no one’s being “forced” to do anything.) I’ll direct you back to my 7:55 comment about risk. Absolutely everything we do in life has an associated risk, but we make informed decisions about what risks are acceptable. Why is sex any different? Why does the law need to guarantee that you can have sex with absolutely zero risk of pregnancy, when it can’t make that same guarantee for anything else?
You don’t require the government to guarantee you zero risk of death before you get behind the wheel; you decide the risk is acceptable, and then you drive in a manner that doesn’t worsen your odds.
@Dhoti,
“If the woman has an abortion, the kid no longer really exists.” Um, no. If a woman has been pregnant for any length of time (a month or more), you will be able to find fetal blood cells in her blood 15 YEARS later. So, biologically, the pregnancy will always exist, to some extent. Current thought is that this persistence of fetal cells in the mother’s body may have some causality for the higher rate of autoimmune diseases in women.
VG, unless the woman has a very early-term abortion, that’s going to be true regardless of what happens to the baby, right? I don’t see how that’s relevant here.
(I’ll admit that I don’t completely see mabsba’s argument, but I don’t think that’s what she was getting at. I think she meant that the guy could skip town and avoid raising the kid. If the woman gets an abortion, she also avoids raising the kid. Same thing, from the kid-raising perspective.)
Not exactly. I’m trying to make the point that in your world men can have total sexual freedom and women aren’t even entitled to sleep with their husbands without risking many negative consequences. And I mean the pregnancy itself, not raising a child. For example, the recent AP article “Pregnancy doesn’t pay” (might be a paraphrase) about how pregnant women were significantly more likely to get laid off. Are you aware that financial reasons are the most common for women choosing abortions?
And, no, I don’t have zero risk when I drive. That’s why I buy insurance. I buy it, not the government. But the government does require that it be available for me to buy.
“My world”, mabsba? You must not be reading closely — I’ve stated, clearly and repeatedly, that the responsibility rests upon both partners. They both make the choice; they both share in the responsibility.
Was I insufficiently clear, or are you misinterpreting me deliberately?
“I’m trying to make the point that in your world men can have total sexual freedom and women aren’t even entitled to sleep with their husbands without risking many negative consequences.”
Nope, that sounds pretty much what you want. If I don’t want a baby, my only choice is abstinence since no birth control is 100% effective. Isn’t that what you said?
I am not denying that you personally may feel that fathers are equally responsible, and that’s certainly the way it should be, but it’s a far cry from reality.
Simple experiment: tell someone that a father left his family. You will get a mildly negative response. Tell the same person that the mother left, and you get indignant outrage. (Believe me, I’ve done it for real, having known several guys who had to raise kids solo.) Not right (horrible, in my book), but it is the reality we live in.
This is probably WAY TOO TMI (as my students say), but how could one enjoy the, um, marital relations if you were worried about getting pregnant and HAVING to have the baby?
I highly doubt we will ever return to the days of the back alley or DIY abortions. There is not any kind of stigma to the single mother now days and there are so many other options these days than there was back in the 1950-60s era.
If abortion were illegal, what else would women do? Sadly, abortions will happen whether they’re legal or not. At least if it’s legal it can be controlled and kept safe for the mother.
They would have the baby and put it up for adoption, what’s wrong with that option!? I know I wouldn’t risk some stupid back alley crap, I would just have it and if I couldn’t keep it would give it to someone who could. It would be completely stupid of anyone to go through with an illegal abortion in this day and age, there is no reason to.
The thing wrong with that option is forcing children who have been raped to carry the additional trauma of carrying a child to term, and then forcing them to give it up.
Also, victims of incest having to birth inbred children and the host of complications that can arise from THAT.
The next issue then is that someone who does not want to have a baby and has managed to get pregnant anyway (no matter how) is not likely to take proper care of themself during the pregnancy.
There was a case in Nevada a few years ago, where a teenage girl didn’t think her parents would give permission (required) for an abortion, so she tried to do it herself. And died.
My mother worked in the ER in the late 1950’s and early 1960’s. She said what women did to themselves out of desperation to end a pregnancy was ghastly. There were not as many contraceptive options at that point, but there were options…
@Danbala – We can’t force a woman to care for herself, whether she is pregnant or not, that’s true. That is still no reason to allow abortion as a birth control option imo.
@Viking – Sad, but those cases happen even with abortion on demand completely legal. What if that young woman and her parents had been able to have counseling. She had the baby and gave it up if that was what she wanted? I still think there should be limits, I have seen too many women and girls take advantage of the fact that they can just get an abortion if things go wrong as a last resort and throw caution to the wind and be as promiscious as they want with whomever. 5, 10 or more abortions… Doesn’t that sound wrong too?
Seriously, how many people REALLY do that? I can’t imagine if you get too many of them you’ll be in particularly good shape.
The only alternative to allowing abortion to anyone who feel it’s the only right thing for them is to force them to carry out a nine month pregnancy against their will. That’ll always be a nastier option to letting people choose abortions for whatever reason they deem valid.
Maybe five to ten abortions over a short period of time sounds very wrong for us, but who should decide what is the fine reason for choosing an abortion, and what is a naughty reason for abortion?
@Rando – you would be surprised.
@Danbala – Really when you think about it no one is forcing anyone to do anything against their will. The very act of intercourse is well known to have the side effect of pregnancy unless of course the woman has reduced mental. If she is denied an abortion it’s not forcing her to do anything she was not responsible for initiating.
(Oh, and not just her, there was another party of course!)
The multiple abortions thing makes me ill. But then the thought of myself having an abortion makes me ill. But the thought of being forced to carry a baby to term against my will and health scares the crap out of me.
I kind of like my father’s suggestion for that…after the 2nd or 3rd abortion, sterilize BOTH parents.
Danbala, we say “you can’t legislate morality”, but we have very many laws to the contrary. At some point, we make an exception for actions we consider to be particularly egregious, or that violate a majority of our moral codes.
Ignoring for a moment whether or not abortion should be one of those exceptions — do you think, as the people, we have the right to do that?
I’d say reversible vasectomies for all boys and men, and they are not allowed to undo it without a note from a particular woman who they are intended to impregnate. :p
Oooo! I second Danbala’s suggestion!
n00bs:
“If she is denied an abortion it’s not forcing her to do anything she was not responsible for initiating.”
Then you are forcing women to have no sex apart from the few times when a pregnancy is the sought for outcome. (“You” as in society, not as in you personally.
)
n00bs–Surprise me. I want to know how many people are getting abortion after abortion.
Dhoti:
“Ignoring for a moment whether or not abortion should be one of those exceptions — do you think, as the people, we have the right to do that?”
Now this is a very interesting question. I don’t have a clear yes or no-answer (of course), but I am much more inclined to say “no, we as the people do not have any right to make laws based on morality”. I am sure you can think of exceptions that can be discussed, but that’d be my principle answer.
n00bs: I’d be willing to bet that more women get pregnant from rape than who have multiple abortions. Both of these numbers are probably small, but seriously, which one do you think is greater?
I posted a site but it got moderated:
h t t p://w w w.n r l c.o r g/abortion/facts/reasonsabortions.html
Copy and take out the spaces – I don’t know how these were gathered or what year. It’s what I could find quickly. You can see that rape cases are small and combined with health of mother and baby are only 7%.
As far as multiple abortions, this is very interesting:
But how many times before?
Of the abortions reported in 1999 to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), 26.2% of women who aborted had experienced one previous abortion; 11.2% had two previous abortions, and 7.5% had three or more previous abortions. The situation may be even worse than this, because the reports that states make to the CDC are voluntary, and the largest abortion state, California, does not report. Forty-six states do report, and this led to a total count of 861,789 legal induced abortions in 1999. That means that in one year, by the most conservative data available, 64,634 abortions were performed on women who had had three or more previous abortions.
Why would a woman have multiple abortions?
Several factors can account for this. Dr. Philip Ney points out that pregnancy, like sleep, is a biorhythm. If you are awakened in the middle of the night, your body says, “Go back to sleep.” Many who abort, therefore, feel the urge to get pregnant again. A biorhythm has been interrupted. Many want a “replacement” or “atonement” baby.
I can’t seem to post a site without it being moderated today…
Holy crap!!!! I pray (literally) that those numbers aren’t true. I’m conservative and even I never dreamt that that number would be that high.
Rando: You and I agree. That’s why I’m Pro-Choice. People are selfish and would do it anyway.
Yeah, despite what those who yell “baby-killers” think, most pro-choice people don’t actually LIKE abortion, and many (myself and my wife included) would never actually do it.
It’s not that they like them. They are still uncomfortable for the woman, however I work with a few off “those” gals. Unfortunately I had to share a cubicle with one and she called family planning three separate times. All this was happening while my wife and I were going through our losses. Talk about wanting to just scream and shout at her…….
Classicist the Zappaist quote:”The whole thing does, strangely enough, boil down to pure opinion. If a woman feels that she would rather not get an abortion, that’s absolutely her choice. However, wouldn’t it be better for those girls to go to a proper clinic than to shove up a wire themselves and scrape, which they will do if they don’t have other options? Or try to have the baby alone and then dump it in the dumpster?…
…(Behind the school on prom night)”
Which happened in spite of ‘legal’ abortion – hence your argument is spurious.
Also, the classic idea that women died from the so-called ‘coat hanger’ abortion is not strictly accurate. It was not the abortion that killed them, it was the infection from non-sterile operations. Strictly speaking, with today’s antibiotics, those women would have survived the procedure.
You make pro-choice look really fvcking bad, asshole. I recommend you STFUGTFOESADITOP…ASAP!!
Rando: Don’t tell original this, but I’m sorry about my assholish post earlier (parasite one). I had not known your loss, and I sympathize for you.
Don’t tell original this
i saw it anyway. mwa ha ha. i am all seeing and all knowing!
in any case, i think you and i are ok ILPB… we were both being asses. it happens.
Dammit, dude, you should’ve posted it higher up before I went off on you. LOL
Meh, let you blow of some steam. Everyone needs a good yelling at someone, especially online. Plus I HAD to try and hide it from ORiginal. Her going all witchy and all…. **hides broom and fake long nose**
the ironic part is that i could very well be called a witch today (it was dress up day at the office for halloween).
i won’t blow up on you anymore. i said what i needed to say and i tend to get along just fine with what you say.
plus, call me shortright or shorty. original just sounds weird!
And even more to the point, the original Aramaic doesn’t translate as “you shall not suffer a witch to live”, but “you shall not suffer a poisoner to live”.
And if he speaks, the Cuckoo Left thinks he’s the new Messiah….
Thank God (pick your flavor) The Cuckoo Right and the Cuckoo Left combined are about 1% of the nation (unfortunately the most vocal 1%).
Now if only the next groupd in from the left and right extremes would get it through their thick skulls that if one actually looked objectively, Fox is no more extreme than NPR (in opposite directions), Limbaugh is downright TAME compared to the real right-wing nutjobs (and so are H.R. Clinton & the President, compared to the true left-wing loonies), and advocating the idea that people should aspire to being able to support themselves is NOT racism (be one advocating that persons should get off the government dole, or that migrant workers need to be able to travel up from Mexico to work in the fields legally, with less red tape(illegals, even most liberals have issues with, no matter what the DNC says – just look at the polls)).
I wish people would stop making politically-motivated slander pics for punditkitchen, and reserve the pic flow for truly stupid moves by politicians – after all, aren’t there enough scandals and gaffes by them and other odd news items (and awkward pictures) to NOT have to do such crap? After all, it only polarizes the other side…
I am about as Cuckoo on the left as one can be, and I never ever thought of him as a Messiah. I think thats what people like you like to call him because he actually got people a little excited about the potential of American government again. And he may not be the Messiah, but he is the President, and I for one am glad he is there.
He’s not the messiah, he’s a very naughty boy!!
Well I just got a little turned on.
Me too. But at the thought of you being turned on.
Excuse me; NPR is government-funded and therefore required by law to be politically neutral (like the BBC in Britain). And they are watched like hawks by both sides to ensure it. If they were so left, the Bush administration would have shut them down years ago.
Therefore, any perception on your part that NPR is biased comes from where YOU stand relative to them.
Hey! Its that guy who makes unfunny lols! Boo this man!
He is right in this case though. But still….
Booo!!!
i say we beat him with tire irons until he starts saying funny things. he may die of internal bleeding first, but at least we tried, right?
With all the crap we’ve been saying about him for the last two days, he comes in here and says THAT?? I don’t think we’re trying hard enough to piss him off.
Believe me, the BBC are biassed.
I prefer my news to be semi-assed.
Triassed – The more, the merrier.
I don’t know. Two heads are better than one but does that apply to two or more asses?
How about if the asses are each attached to an attractive person?!
oh man, that was so funny………………………………………wait
Boy, are you nuts or what?? NPR is about as politically neutral as the Rush Limbaugh! Every liberal agenda there is is touted on NPR. (And BTW – BBC isn’t ‘neutral’ either.)
Hyperbole much?
Actually, that was one of the most factual statements today.
I personally believe that honor belongs to your ANSI comment, but I’m biased I guess.
Absolutely. Why else would they have come to the defense of Fox News recently?
I do agree that NPR isn’t as politically neutral as it should be. For some reason, they feel the need to appease people like you and they end up overcompensating and being biased towards the right. (Biased towards the right relative to reality that it, but of course reality has a well-known liberal bias.)
Of course NPR is biased. And BBC is biased, too. There’s no such thing as an unbiased news station. Everything is objective. Or an unbiased journalist. Not that they shouldn’t struggle to be subjective–they definitely should–but they far more labor to “appear” subjective, which is far worse.
By the way, even though NPR has some of a left leaning (yes, yes it does, and I’m left, too), it’s still an “American Government” bias. You’re still not going to hear about what they think you shouldn’t hear about, which includes a lot of things that the mostly conservative part of the system are particularly uncomfortable about. Hell, I’m surprised I was granted the privilege to hear about Honduras in NPR at all.
I think you have ‘objective’ and ’subjective’ reversed? Or was it supposed to be humorous?
FFFFUUUUU
I know the difference I swear.
I must go back in time to hit myself with the Black-Is-White stick so that I don’t do this!
~Meanwhile in the present
…..Time abhors a paradox!
Hit yourself with a kukumaka stick.
He was never the Messiah, he was just the light at the end of a very long, dark tunnel. Folks tend to get a little gleeful at the first glimpse of that light.
Then it turned out to be Pyro, ubered up and ready for destruction.
To true!
+10 Interwebs!
Son of Satan? that’s a bit of a stretch isn’t it? jeez, get over yourself!
But I thought the right thought of him as a Messiah. They sure do say it a lot.
Courtesy of ManifestObama.com:
Between now and November 4…
Let’s spend one minute a day…
Envisioning Barack Obama…
As our President…
Prepare your heart to fill with hope…
Prepare your mind to embrace the change…
Envision Barack victorious on election night…
…Taking the oath of office…
On Inauguration Day…
Believe that this great moment in American history is already a reality…
Say the words to yourself…
To your family…
To your friends and neighbors…
Say it to the world…
Your vision is a sacred trust…
You are a sanctuary of a sacred vision for a renewed America…
Envision it…
Say it…
Feel it…
Believe it…
Make it our reality…
Manifest Obama, America!
That’s right wing if I’ve ever heard it.
Scary!!!
Mmm mmm mmm Barack Milhouse O-Nixon,
Son of Satan is putting it mildly. There’s loads of content around suggesting that Obama is the Antichrist and the Last Days are upon us.
Beer-drinking is very deeply sinful, according to some denominations.
Most of those denominations blur the line between faith and cults.
Agreed. I go to an evangelical church and I know plenty of people there (including the pastor) who enjoys a drink now and then. The religious nuts who think drinking is sinful give Christians a bad name. The majority of us are fine with it.
Exactly, well said.
Heck, our Priest serves wine every Sunday!
Course, I am Catholic…
Ain’t it great being Catholic? It’s one of the easiest Christian churches to be a member of.
Must … resist … the urge … to post … “every sperm is sacred” YouTube video.
*phew*
And your LOLs are funny, according to some denominations. I’m not exactly about to sign up with either.
True dat.
Ya know… With the state of all these lols, I am tempted to drink. I’d rather not but it is starting to feel like an inevitability.
Yeah. There never seems to be an actual punch line….
maybe we should form a line where people get punched in the nuts/ovaries?
(lame, i know… i’m working on 3 hours of sleep)
Punching someone in the ovaries doesn’t sound all that fun, or funny to watch.
If I’m taking one in the groin, I want to at least punch some funbags, and I want it on high-speed camera for a slow-mo bouncing boobie replay. I think everyone would agree…
i’m going for a “maybe if we’re lucky they’ll be unable to reproduce” angle. a punch in the tits will hurt but won’t harm any reproductive capabilities…
Hrmm, you have a good point.
I was going for purely morale boosting visual entertainment.
if i were going for morale boosting i wouldn’t be punching guys in the nuts… i wouldn’t be at work or on the computer. i’d be locked away at the boy’s house with him… surfacing only for food and water.
Hmmm this is sounding very appealing.
my point exactly.
Last time I made one with a punchline, it got deleted… -_-
If people would quit voting for lols because they agree with them, or against them because they disagree, then we might see more funny lols hit the home page on PK.
It’s okay to poke fun at Obama or Bush or anyone else if it is funny! Vote funny!
Yeah… Those are some SUPER extra crazy right-wingers. Most of us couldn’t care less if he drinks beer. The world definatly has bigger issues than if the President drinks a few.
Now…. if he was stumbling all over the place and puking on foreign leaders…. then we would have a problem.
Even then there would be a large portion of the college population that would sympathize with that because they’ve been there.
I think the college crowd would sympathize if it was a home video, but even they, with all their “liberal bias”, would worry if it was just another day at the office. Maybe if it was one of those really drunk frats…. who knows?
I’m a conservative, a Christian, and I don’t support Obama. But even I say give the guy a break. The guy wants to have a beer, let him have a beer. If he’s not getting wasted, then people should just shut up about it.
….not all of us conservatives are crazy nut jobs.
Most of us aren’t, but it’s just better to pretend because it’s easy to just say “faux news” at everything.
Wait, so, Christians aren’t allowed to drink? I don’t think the OP actually knows many Christians. Apparently only the misguided (yet probably for good intentions) ones. Jesus turned water into wine. The original word used is the word used for alcoholic wine, not purified water. If drinking was bad, that would mean Jesus contributed to multiple people’s ’sin’, which, would not make Him who He was supposed to be.
I’m sure the OP felt pretty witty writing it though.
There are many Christian religions who believe that consuming alcohol is a sin, even though the bible clearly states otherwise.
I work with Pentacostals, and they scowl at me every time I mention having a beer at the Brewers game. It’s MILLER FREAKING PARK for crying out loud, I would feel wrong not having a beer in support of my team!
Change *many* to *some* out of fairness…
did you order a bud at miller park??
If I were a fan of the Brewers, I’d want to drink a lot too.
i’m a fan of the indians and the browns (and the cavs haven’t been doing so hot the 2 opening games either)… sign me up for a liver transplant.
And my Cardinals just hired Paul Bunyon on steroids (literally) to teach our hitters how to strike out more. Let’s hear it for Mark McGwire, ladies & gentlemen!
coulda been albert belle. he was not only on steroids but he was a really happy friendly fun guy too… like when he got in his SUV and chased trick or treaters away from his house by driving after them across all of his neighbors lawns. great guy that albert belle…
shouldn’t this picture be in the celebrity pics section?
What if he drinks crappy beer – can I blast him for that?
Only if he had the choice of crappy beer or good beer.
crappy beer > no beer at all
Very much my point:-
good beer >> crappy beer > no beer
I’m a Christian Right person….and I just had a beer for breakfast.
What group of low grade morons selects which cartoons get posted here?
This one isn’t even close to being funny – regardless of whether you support the president or not. Its just stupid. They must have a pack of cub scouts running this site.
hell im christian and i drink beer and other drinks.So don’t know what christian is spouting off that nonsense but someone should tell them to shut up.
Yeah, I’m not sure that that caption is entirely correct. There is nothing in Christianity about not drinking, but only about becoming a drunkard, bad behavior, etc.
I used to think this site was funny because it bashed our political leaders. Now I realize it just bashed our political leaders because (at the time) they were Republican.
Its cool man. We still bash those guys.
Not in any way that is funny or clever, though. Anyone can post a stupid whine on a picture, the trick is in finding clever language to drive that point home and force a chuckle. This doesn’t come close.
It’s okay. We agree totally. EWAdams gets a lot of these preachy LOLs up here. He doesn’t get that this is a comedy site, not a place for his op-eds.
Kinda like when your parents tell you there’s no such thing as Santa, isn’t it? Sucks when everything you know is a lie.
That’s exactly what it’s like! Your comment actually made me smile today
but there is a santa isnt there?
Of course there is.
*covers bitter’s ears*
Come on guys!!
Including the cake. *sigh*
Like Christians don’t drink beer. I’m so sick of people and their naivety.
Some don’t. Some also don’t eat pork. Also, some practice polygamy. Iknorite?
Wow.
No need for me to say anything on this one. Its stupidity and cluelessness speaks for itself.
AKA: It was made by EWAdams.
Amen Brother!
Umm…try reading the Bible. It says not to get drunk, not to never drink at all. As a member of the Christian right, I officially invoke balogna on this caption. Cheers.
Not all but many people want to be judged by the “right” so that they can cry foul. Playing the victim. I mean how many “baptists drink” jokes are there?” Look at Catholics, they almost encourage underage drinking. It’s about moderation. That being said even as a polarizing preach fest this lol fails.
Catholics don’t recognize the Jews.
The Protestants don’t recognize the Pope.
Baptists don’t recognize each other at the liquor store.
Something like that?
Q: How can you keep your Southern Baptist fishing buddy from drinking all your beer?
A: Take two Southern Baptists with you. They won’t touch a drop in front of each other.
LMAO
I’m so using that one at some point today!
Q: What’s the difference between a Methodist and a Baptist?
A: The Methodist will say hi when he sees you at the liquor store.
And to top it all off the guy is drinking a Pilsner from an Ale glass. JIMINY H CHRISTMAS, how did this guy get elected?!?!?
I’m a Christian who doesn’t drink, but that’s a personal preference based on a history of alcoholism in my family and generally hating the smell and taste of alcohol. I also think people love alcohol too much, in general, but that’s another topic.
Even so, I know people who like beer and have strong opinions about it, and I was stunned that PotUS would drink Bud Light, as even I’m aware that it’s essentially swill in comparison to other beers.
Hmm…at least the kitties and doggies are SOMETIMES funny (if you can stand the lolspeak).
PS As Monty Python says, “American Beer is like making love in a canoe.” (Although I’d disagree for the modern microbreweries that have appeared since then.)
That Python quote is not funny without the punchline, dude.
It also makes zero sense without the punchline. I’m glad someone else put the whole quote in there. I was starting to loose faith in Monty Python.
“I’m glad someone else put the whole quote in there.”
That was me too!! *pats self on back*
Ah! *pats HelOnWheels on the back* Thank you for that. I was too lazy to look and see who put it.
WHATS THE PUNCHLINE????
It’s a German flag.
I KNEW IT!!!
& EINSTEIN WAS A SOCIALIST!
Did you know some people think tort reform alone will fix health care?
Do you know that some people think govt alone will fix health care?
Sorry, never had to supply the punchline before. Thought it was obvious (not from seeing the movie, but just obvious).
For those who need help: It’s f***ing close to water.
You call that a beer? THIS is a beer!
“No, that is a WINE.”
“I see you played beery-winey before!”
Let’s whine about how our particular congregations of Christianity don’t ban drinking! Come on everybody!
THE FLAG IS BELGIAN!!!!11
Bridge to Nowhere?
zappaist huh?
I picked up a pair of Zircon-encrusted tweezers and figured, “Why not?”
THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!!!
ZOMG I LOVE YOU RANDO! You just made my night.
I don’t know why, but everytime I saw “The flag is Belgian” I thought of that line.
At least there isn’t a video of a guy molesting a squirrel at the end.
You fool! You foolish fool! Do you realize what you’ve done?!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
….what?
You’ve apparently become Darth Vader.
Cool!!
A Chief Petty Officer shall not drink. However, if he should drink he shall not get drunk. If he should get drunk, he shall not stagger. And if he should stagger, he shall not fall. And if he should fall, he will fall in such a manner as to cover up his rank so that passerbyers will think he is an officer.
Ha! Why is that so familiar? Where is it from?
Where you from Cookie?
JAC, you just totally confused me.
The Navy Diver is not a fighting man, he is a salvage expert. If it is lost underwater, he finds it. If it’s sunk, he brings it up. If it’s in the way, he moves it. If he’s lucky, he will die young, 200 feet beneath the waves, for that is the closest he’ll ever get to being a hero.
Fine, I googled it! And it’s “Men of Honor”.
Thanks for making me go out there and research! I was going to make you do the work for me, like The One.
I was going to tell you, but hoped you would figure it out with the hints. Sorry, I just watched it the other night. So it’s fresh in my head.
As a Christian right, who also happens to enjoy beer every now and then (draught for me please.), I do NOT think he is the son of satan. I think he is just another human, who happens to enjoy beer, albeit crappy beer, but thats my personal opinion
.
very true, agree or disagree with his politics all you want, but dont bash a man for haveing a beer….or murdering goats in the name of satan so his evil muslin ( the cloth is evil ) commie plans to take over the world go as planned and run on sentances
I wouldn’t bash a man for having a beer, just having a beer and making someone else pay for it.
I’m pretty sure he pays for his own beer. He has enough money to buy it himself, I’m sure.
I heard he stole a piece of fruit at a grocery store the other day…
OMG that is THE silliest picture I’ve seen on this website. LOL
Hmm….. I don’t think I’ve ever heard ANYONE claim that Obama was evil for drinking beer, or claiming that anyone was a Muslim because they didn’t. So this LOL falls flat, much like a cheap lite beer.
’sides, Obama’s cokehead past kinda trumps a water beer, don’t it?
naw, bush’s cokehead past made it invalid
Of course this “LOL” fails, EWAdams made it. -_-
Christianity isn’t against alcohol consumption.
Who really gives a damn if he drinks a beer there are more important things to worry about
Well, we were lamenting having EWAdams on a Tuesday, since it’s usually him on Wednesday. Now, here it is Wednesday, and sure enough, EWAdams rears his unfunny head again. *sigh*
Seriously admins, get rid of this EWAdams fool. He’s more irritating than the trolls!
Even better, he actually SHOWED UP here to argue! (We’re pretty sure that he reads everything posted on one of his threads, but that’s a whole new level.)
I don’t know what would be more effective — agitating for him to be banned, or just ridiculing him at every opportunity.
He used to post. I wish he would again so we could all tear him a new asshole!
I vote for ridiculing him. I got into an argument with him when he posted semi-regularly over whether or not this site was for comedy. Apparently he honestly thinks it isn’t.
I would say he’s a drinker and a smoker and he’s giving me a load of B.S. trying to get me to help pay for his health care.
You already do pay for his healthcare. He IS a government employee after all…
Hey, I’m a (state) government employee AND I pay for my own healthcare… supplemental insurance, but I’m covered for loads of things that the state-paid plan leaves out. Like lost wages, if I’m incapacitated long-term…
Because the government plans will ALWAYS leave something important out. Gotta pay for those $500 hammers somehow.
Anyway…
I stopped drinking alcohol because it’s an addictive, health-damaging, needlessly expensive frivolity that doesn’t actually help me in any way. (Kind of like the Stimulus package.) And because my personality is shitty enough when I’m sober.
(Actually, I’m told I’m a friendly, affectionate drunk… which is another reason I quit.)
So I get to look down on drinkers for entirely non-religious reasons!
…Son of Satan for drinking a beer? Are you kidding? Come on, I don’t really like the guy but that is stupid. Last time I checked, the consumption of wine was part of a Catholic Mass. It’s not like he’s going on around being a drunk.
That’s more than can be said about most politicians! /zing!
The caption doesn’t make sense, because Christian Right and Cuckoo Right are the same thing.
Can you cite that?
There are no Christian or Cuckoo Rights in Marathon, just so you know.
There are only S’pht.
I’d probably say the Pfhor are probably a little closer to the Cuckoo Right. Heh.
that’s not true
If you can’t win either way, you should at least make it a good beer and not some fizzy yellow one.
If Obama farts, the left will assume that the right will say it stinks. And they are right.
If Obama farts, the left will be behind him huffing it in, and criticizing the right for not doing the same.
Actual biblical Christianity isn’t against alcohol, just against getting drunk/wasted.
Not to mention, that stuff is way to pale to be beer
Finally, a funny lol!
Wait…what?
Wait what?
I think the poster of this has absolutely no idea what they’re talking about.
I’m Christian, I’m conservative, and I wholeheartedly agree with Benjamin Franklin’s view: “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
My dad brews beer. Some amazing beer at that.
Christians usually believe that it is wrong to drink too much beer and to lost control of your mind.
I believe that.
Anything in excess is bad though. Beer, food, television, whatever, etc.
I’d just like to note that I’m a member of the Christian right and I am entirely okay with Obama having that beer. Heck, have you seen his job? He has to somehow preside over all this economy crap and partisan bickering and wars and whatnot? Frankly, I’d be a little worried if he didn’t drink, in my book to have that job and not drink would require the use of some other (probably worse) narcotic. When the President breaks down and does speed, then let me know.
…. And if Obama drives the country into the ground the left will cheer all the way.
time to burst your bubble. REAL MUSLIMS DONT DRINK LIQUOR OR BOOZE.