REALITY
REALITY
Republicans and Democrats both kinda suck now.
(Barack Obama)
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First?
The Stupids is a 1996 comedy/adventure film directed by John Landis. The film is based on The Stupids, characters from a series of books written by Harry Allard and illustrated by James Marshall.
The story tells the adventures of the fictional family Stupids, whose last name coincidentally describes what their behavior is often considered- stupid. The story begins with Stanley Stupid, the patriarch, thinking that the “sender” from the stamp “return to sender” on letters is a wicked man who plans a conspiracy. Adding several mix-ups and misunderstandings, the family unintentionally and unwittingly save the world from military chaos, while still believing a fake story about a fictional man called Sender and his plot to confiscate everyone’s mail and trash.
Picture reuse. Boo Hiss. Actually the picture is correct Dems, Repubs do suck, and so does our President. It’s all good though.
Agreed
Wait, if they all suck doesn’t that mean it’s all bad?
Which makes it all good. Don’t you know I’m a conservative, so therefore I’m EVIL, so bad is good to me.
Conservativism (or however you say that) isn’t evil. There’s nothing wrong with being a conservative, I only have a problem with Republicans. There’s a difference ya know.
Not in a lot of liberal eyes.
In these liberal eyes, it doesn’t really matter. Once you hit center, you’re already too far to the right. *runs off to hug a tree* OW, that one hurt. *finds another tree*
Watch out for the pointy things called branches. Also some trees have wasp nests in them, don’t hug the wasp nest. Holly bushes too are bad to hug. I’d stick with a tall oak tree and hug the trunk. However in some places you could have a tree toad and he/ she’d pee on you.
Ow, tree bark hurts. This tree hugging stuff is harder than it looks.
Rando, did that tree consent to being hugged? It’s just called me about filing a harassment complaint.
Dendrophilia (paraphilia)
Dendrophilia (or less often dendrophily) literally means “love of trees”. The term may refer to a paraphilia in which people are sexually attracted to or sexually aroused by trees. This may involve sexual contact or veneration as phallic symbols or both.[1]
Brenda Love claims that trees were ancient symbols of fertility and men on certain days would ejaculate on tree trunks.[2]
Not once did it say no to me. In fact, I don’t remember it saying anything.
It said no but it meant yes.
Did you see the way that tree was dressed? Those limbs were practically naked! It was asking for it!
DON’T GENERALIZE LIKE THAT! If there’s one thing I cannot stand it’s gross generalizations!
Like generalizing that all people of faith are bad? Like you did?
I never did that.
Actually I didn’t generalize. A generalization encompasses the WHOLE group. I said a lot, not every. So there :-p
No of course not. Yes, Yepublicans and Democrats both suck, but our president is neither. He’s a Communists. Yey.
And you are an idiot. Yay!
My level of intelligence is irrespective of the fact that we elected a Communist. Yey. Yay? Oh, who cares?
I wish we would have elected a communist….. instead… we just got a democrat….. oh well… maybe next time….
@Bip – If you think that Obama = Communist then your level of intelligence ABSOLUTELY = idiot+ignorant.
I’m a Republican who didn’t like McCain, but knew Obama would be worse. Would like to say I told you so, but I know it would only fall on arrogant, deaf Democratic ears. Maybe this experience will teach liberals yet again that utopia doesn’t exist. Of course, in 16 or 20 years, some other Democrat con artist will come along, and we’ll all have to go through this crap again.
Utopia DOES exist.
You’re not in it.
U⋅to⋅pi⋅a
/yuˈtoʊpiə/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [yoo-toh-pee-uh] Show IPA
Use utopia in a Sentence
See web results for utopia
See images of utopia
–noun
1. an imaginary island described in Sir Thomas More’s Utopia (1516) as enjoying perfection in law, politics, etc.
Are you doing that “hyper-bowl” thing again?
No, I’m actually making a point to a knucklehead.
Damn I was hoping for some hyper-space mashed potatoes in that bowl too.
Hyper-space mashed potatoes are notoriously lumpy. Not sure why. It defies all laws of physics, yet there they are. Lumpy.
Are you in Utopia. Do tell us all about it.
Utopia doesn’t exist. But there are plenty of countries with both comprehensive social services and higher median incomes than the US.
There’s no reason the US shouldn’t be outdoing them with it’s additional advantages of a large population and market with a single language, plus huge natural resources and area.
Actually, utopia does exist. Everybody has their own version of it. So, some people may already be living a utopian life and for others it may only exist in their minds. Now, if you’re talking about “Utopia” (as described by Sir Thomas More) existing, then you’re correct.
Utopia not only exists, there’s six Utopias in the US alone!
One each in Texas, Florida, Illinois, Kansas, New York and Ohio.
Nice.
IN YOUR FACE, SQWIRK!!
I refuse to believe that Utopia exists in Illinois or Kansas. You could show me the city limit signs, and I still wouldn’t believe you.
I feel the same way about Ohio.
Hel, you’re a buckeye too??
what part? i hail from the mistake on the lake that will never live down the river that caught on fire…
T-O-S – Not from Ohio. Illinois. I’ve just never liked Ohio. It’s been kinda crappy to me in many ways. Nothing personal, TOS, though. I’ve liked most Buckeyes I’ve met. And I’ve got tons of family in “The Mistake On the Lake” (LMAO!!).
90% of my state is corn fields or soybean fields and that’s painfully BOOOOOOORING.
however, i like being from the mistake. hell, i’ve got a better story than most people… in any one-up-man situations i can pull the “yeah, well, our river caught on fire. beat that”.
you ever had candy buckeyes……? mmmmmm *drool*
I have an exwife in Masfield. You available for a drive by?
YES!! They are teh awsum!!!!!!
Lived there for 14 years….
ZOMFG I have had those things (candy buckeyes) they are DELICIOUS. *drools* Now I want some. Do you ship?
Utopia, Texas actually looks pretty nice.
The U.S. has a single language? Donde?
“But there are plenty of countries with both comprehensive social services and higher median incomes than the US”
Cite please. From what I could find the US is in the top 3 depending on what method you use to calculate it. Switzerland is above the US until you add taxes etc it looks like.
Median earnings are higher in just about every western european country.
The United States places higher than many in GDP per capita but then falls behind because of greater income inequality (note median is not the same as mean).
For example, the GDP per capita for the USA is 47k, for the UK (a middle ranking western european country) it is 44k. But the average worker in the UK has a higher salary because income in the USA is further skewed away from the middle class.
If you take into account cost of living the USA climbs back up again to make even. But this doesn’t translate into the average american family ‘earning more’, it especially doesn’t let you double count by citing PPP figures and then talking about the higher cost of living in Europe….
Basically, it hasn’t been the case that the middle class (median earners) in the US do better than their european counterparts since the 1980s.
Income is quite a bit different than net. So what if they make more than the US before taxes. Redo your figures with what they bring home. Or, how about how much they pay in taxes.
If you’re going to discuss economics please use the correct terms: gross vs. net income. And take in to consideration what residents of other countries get for their much higher taxes.
That’s what I was getting at. He’s saying income, which is vague. I was pointing that fact out and asking for a little more detail. I will also point out that throwing out numbers is not citing nor proving anything.
It would be impossible in a forum such as this to discuss their services, their quality of services, etc. vs ours along with all of the caveats that need to be taken into consideration and it will boil down to one side saying it’s the have’s vs the have not’s and the other side saying that the government needs to get their own house in order before trying to regulate mine. This is so worn out and there will never be an agreement.
What you are saying here is: “Yeah well my country is worse than yours!!!!” “Only if you just look at income! Cost of living is higher here!” (Runs off and cries in corner)
*Joins OROLLMARANS in corner. shares box of facial tissue*
*wipes tears and eats brownies*
Brownies anyone?
Cool, brownies!
Wait, what kind of brownies are these? I fall for this every time!
mmmm bitter troll loves charro and charro with brownies more!
I brought regular brownies just for you Rando. I ate the magic ones.
And left some for my bitter one. Hi bitter!
Oh. Those *weren’t* the magic brownies? Then I’m in trouble.
No but it was magic milk.
-eats up the brownies with some magic milk- mmmm
I have no idea if anything this dude is saying is right, but what I want to know is What have you done with Sqwirk?!?
We have liberal tuesdays here at the foundation.
It helps to see both sides of an issue. Of course come wednesdays we feel dirty.
Well, that’s the point entirely. We liberals like to be dirty.
and unshaven!
With longer, unkept hair.
and smelling of patchouli and nag champa
Ah Fukc. I’ll have to hand over my card, I like showers, shaving, brushing my hair and not using patchouli or nag champa.
Froo, Eds, diss, shorty, will you accept me as a Conservative? Is there a test?
NO! charro, you can’t do it! You can’t switch teams on us! You’ve got to play for our team.
Unless you wanna play for both teams. I guess that’s okay.
-grabs charro up and snuggles her- no we keep you, you can shave and shower, bitter troll likes you as you are.
There may be a great tug-of-war involved, but hell yes!!
I feel so loved. *blush*
-steals charro away- NOOOOO since bitter troll has her flag in bitter troll’s bitter bitter foot, bitter troll must follow her and bitter troll cant betray bitter troll’s evil liberal ways, trolls are evil!
I don’t know if I could be conservative anyway. I would get in trouble when they did the inspection and found me eating soylent green and sharing my hard earned money with poor people.
That’s funny, cause the cost of living in the UK is nearly double the majority of the US. The only time it isn’t is when you’re comparing places like New York and L.A.
given that perfection is really determined by the individual percieving it, then utopia could exist if said person was living in a culture they found to be perfect. know what i mean?
“Unfortunately we only get two choices”
WRONG. It’s morons like you that prevent a third party candidate from winning.
I’ve found that calling people morons usually gets them to agree with me. CAPITALIZING CAN WORK MIRACLES AS WELL!!!
AND DON’T FORGET TO BOLDLY ITALISIZE WHERE NO ONE HAS BOLDLY ITALISIZED BEFOARRR!!!1!
THERE IS NO UTOPIA! THERE IS ONLY ZOOL!!!
*brak still does not know how to italisize here. Doh!*
xiyLIKE THIS!!X/iy
x=sideways carrot thingy that points to the left
y=sideways carrot thingy that points to the right
For bold, do the same but with “b”
BOLDLY TRYING IT
boldly failing…………
boldly trying it too
succeeding!
You WIN!!!
I fail
i can’t get the underline tag to work dammit
experimenting with the underline
And I fail too.
I wonder if this will work.
Underline doesn’t work here?
what about strikeout?
Is this strikeout? I’m trying to figure out how to do strikeout.
testing againxstrikeyTADAx/strikey
Strikey is the code word?
No, sorry, the word is strike
If x=sideways carrot pointing left
And y=sideways carrot pointing right
xstrikeyTADAx/strikey
STRIKE THIS!oh you mean like this?It’s “”, with whatever you want (b for bold, i for italics, but you have to remember to close it at the end with the same “”, but with a / in front of the letter.
It just won’t show those… Hmmm.
>< only the other way around!
seems an awful lot like HTML ?
oo, it workeD! many thanks
It is HTML, or for italics, for underline, for italics. I’m a web developer who loves wasting his precious time going over lolz
-Billy
trying again
YAY!!! I’m a bit less inter tube challenged!! Thanks, pitty!
Natch, steve. I mean, brak.
*watches with pleasure as Slim walks away to the bar. Whistles softly again and smiles to himself. Adjusts his Captain’s hat, pulls up collar a bit and walks into the night to be about his dark but ultimately patriotic business. But he’ll be back….he’ll be back……….*
strikethroughitalic
bold
will it work?
only the shadow knows
that is my favorite comment ever on pundit…..
THAT IS GRAMMATICALLY INCORRECT!!!!
Sorry, that particular phrase irks me. Yet I am a Trekkie. Problems ensue.
It should be, “And don’t forget to italicize boldly where no one has italicized boldly before!”.
FYI. XD
grammar policeActually, I have voted for 3rd party candidates before, including Ross Perot. Unfortunately reality dictates that on this years final presidential ballot, there was no hope of any candidate other thant the Democratic and Republican primary winners of actually becoming president.
And it’s the MEDIA that prevents third party candidates from winning, not morons like me.
But thank you for your very inciteful opinion strongly backed by facts.
That’s quite a different story coming from someone who just said there were only “two choices”. I called you out on a flat out lie. Shut up and accept your stupidity for what it is.
Actually, I think what he meant by two choices were the independents were worse than the Dems and Republicans this time around. I couldn’t find any of them I could agree with, some were either too liberal, or too conservative. Unfortunately, there will never be a perfect candidate, and there really is no point, 8 years in office, and then a new idiot comes in to undo everything the idiot before him did. That’s why we’ll never see change. 4 years isn’t enough and 8 is too long.
So, maybe a single six year term?
I’m sure they will take your suggestion into consideration…
Well, if they ever do change it, I’m totally taking credit.
My issue with a 6 year term is that what if 2 years in, we all figure out the guy is a total idiot? Then we’re stuck with another 4 years without any way of removing the idiot unless he does something dumb enough to get impeached. *sigh* There is no perfect system.
Democracy is the worst system of government except for all the others that have been tried.
-Winston Churchill
*claps, cheers and whistles* BRAVO BRAVO
It’s still not perfect, unfortunately. Again, there is no perfect system.
It’s a whole HELL of a lot better than Communism and/or Socialism.
How do you know? Have you tried them?
I don’t think that’d work for Presidents, but they should totally try that with Senators!
Correction: There are two ->serious<- choices. Voting a third party candidate is a waste of vote because you know they don't win and that your vote isn't listened to because the minority of the voters get nothing. That is why this post is so true – all the American politics suck but thats not because of mr. President here but because of the extremely lame and irrational system.
“Voting a third party candidate is a waste of vote”
Most people that voting your conscience is not a “wasted vote”, as you put it. Plus, 3rd parties can receive federal funding if they gain at least 5% of the vote.
But by that logic, there’s only *one* serious choice, because there’s only one candidate who will win. If voting for someone is a waste merely because they’ll lose, if that’s your rationale, then isn’t the only feasible way to choose who to vote for to guess who’s going to win anyways, then vote for them? In which case, why vote at all, since you already think they’re going to win?
Refusing to vote for someone because you don’t think they’ll win is terribly illogical. (Unless you’re concerned about vote-stealing, which is not necessarily the case).
As if the last 8 years of Republican “leadership” wasn’t enough.
Oh yeah, and I’d like to say “I told you so” about Bush. So I will.
I told you so, sucka!
I’ll see your “I told you so” and raise you a “we’ll just see about that”.
I’ll call your raise and bump you a “Sez Who??”
I’ll call your bluff and throw in a “Your mom, that’s who.”
*throws in hand in disgust*
Damn you, DWN…..I only had a paradox!
It’s my ninja skills, it is as close to cheating as you can get legitimately.
I should have known. But I have learned much…and our paths will cross again. I have much work to do…my training now begins in earnest. Until then, my friend…..until then.
*spins on heel, trips over other foot, lands on face. Ow. So much for dramatic exit*
*sigh*
Sometimes the bluff doesn’t work..
Your mom FTW!
The last 8 years were not just Republican Leadership. If I recall, the last few years were under a Democratically lead Senate and House…you know, about the time the recession started. Like I have said before, the president may set the tone but it is those in the house and senate that are responsible for what happens for the most part.
Alright, have it your way. After the last 8 years of Republican leadership and 2-ish years of Democratic majority in the house and senate, who are on clean up duty from the previous six years of Republican controlled house and senate.
Still doesn’t make much of a case for voting Rep.
Or voting Dem.
At least Dem didn’t come with a side of Sarah Palin.
They came with a full serving of Blago. But then again, we agree that both sides are full of turkey stuffing.
I think Democrats cut Blago from their diet. It was causing unwanted hair growth in the forehead area.
Any chance we could get George Washington on the ballot again?
I still want Teddy back…
Yeah, that talking Teddy Ruxpin was a neat thing.
teddy ruxbin scared bitter troll…so very much…
Unfortunately, a body can only run for election twice these days. Teddy can’t run again… unless he decides to. He’s a force to be reckoned with, I tell you what.
actually, considering that his administration used Reaganomics, he’d just be a rich greedy white man to the media.
Illinois came with a full serving of Blago. He gave the Democratic Party a black eye, sure, but the rest of us didn’t actually have to put up with him.
That was just ugly, let me tell ya.
But it’s nice to have a choice, right? Regardless how you feel about either party. Cause…In Soviet Russia only Communist Party vote you. Seriously.
Ummm…aren’t the dems cleaning up Fannie and Freddie? If I recall it was the dems who said all was well with both of those quazi government agencies…how soon the left forgets and forgives their own.
Yeah, the recession was really caused by the democrats in the past two years. The base of the economic problems didn’t exist before. Actually the weird U.S. banking system, the extremely high debt of the government (caused by two recent wars), the way of living on credit by U.S. citizens and the short-term-profit-vision of bankers of the last decades didn’t have anything to do with the recession at all.
Extremely high debt, which continues to get higher and higher under th current administration.
Does anybody really think that’s going to go away? Seriously. I’ve been hearing my entire life about how awful the national debt is and how it’s going to bankrupt the nation. Can you imagine this fallout if this nation actually declared bankruptcy? No, this country will always be able to pile up an infinite amount of debt because otherwise everything would collapse. BFD.
Would you rather the debt clime or have us experience another great depression? Cuz those were the options we had. BTW, all the bills passed under the Obama administration, save one, were holdovers from the Bush administration. The one that did come from the current administration only contributed to 18% of our national debt, and it prevented skyrocketing unemployment. So there!
Yeah, I don’t see how NOT spending money would actually help out our economy right now. If there were actually a rock bottom for the US to go to, then I might be concerned. But if the US goes belly up, then everything goes fubar.
“I don’t see how NOT spending money would actually help out our economy right now”
It won’t. The question is who and how to do it. The government or the people. I am of the oppionion that if you give more back to the people and let them spend it on what they want instead of the government giving it to provide more porta poties, walking paths, filling bank and state coffers, we would be better off.
Or, the government could use that money to create jobs, which would help out pretty much all around.
Making new jobs is really hard.
I agree except that is not how it is working right now.
On an unrelated note, Franklin D. Roosevelt (A liberal democrat) got us out of the great depression and helped us win World War 2.
Damn them liberal commies ruining our government!
Comments like that only fuel the fire and really do nothing for your point…
Just saying…
*steps off soap-box and goes back to humble pillaging*
FDR prolonged the depression. The war is what got us out of it.
So all the jobs that FDR created with the New Deal just made everything worse? For real?
PK ate my post from yesturday, basically it was a study by UCLA and and article from the WSJ that stated that FDR’s policies extended the great depression by 7 years. It also stated that there were not that many jobs created by his policies, in fact the average amount of hours worked per individual was less due to his policies. I only had time to read those two articles so there may have been more out there.
Just sayin
Guess what a war is economically speaking….massive government spending a.k.a. government stimulus plan.
At least FDR tried. All the republicans seeem to want to do is sit there saying, “Hmph! It will fix its self! Don’t approve of anything the president wants! Harumph!”
And perhaps it would’ve fixed itself…but the bottoming out would’ve been even worse than things already were. And the people suffering from the Depression really weren’t keen on “waiting it out.”
“At least we tried.” Sorry if we trippled the national debt. Increased unemployment to 10% and turned your medical care into VA care. You might be satisfied with the “at least we tried” execuse but I am not.
They are trying, unlike the republican party. Their policy seems to be, “vote against everything the president proposes.” That is the very epitome of counter-progress.
I am of the opinion that the government doing less, republican lead or democratic lead is better for everyone involved. The republicans do have ideas. To see them you will have to stop watching the left leaning media outlets. Last I heard they had proposed several plans. I even recall one republican president proposing some things to help out social security a few years back but that was shot down fairly quickly.
Trying will give us something to go on at least. There is -no- question that what we are doing is -not- working now. Since the Republican party seems to be the party of “lets not do anything different” it really doesn’t matter what Obama does as long as he tries something. So what if all those bad things happen? It’ll suck for a while. But you got to get over your ego. You, your kids, their kids? They are just drops in a bucket. The planet is what is important. The future. If Obama tries something new and screws up he will be voted out of office and frowned upon in history books. But his mistakes will bring forward questions and questions bring different solutions. His mistakes might mean that Semperfidd’s 10 generations from now live in a better world. And that’s who you are doing it for. Change is the only thing that can open the door to whats out there. You can live for yourself today or you can help make tomorrow for everyone.
I’m pretty sure that Dubbaya’s administration pushed through the huge $700 billion rescue plan. And presided over the largest expansion of the federal government up to that point. And lied about the security/liquidity of the banks that received TARP money. I’m also certain that the unemployment rate was already at 7.2% at the end of 2008, which is still the Bush administration. Just sayin’…
“No, this country will always be able to pile up an infinite amount of debt because otherwise everything would collapse. BFD.”
Not if the US dollar becomes worthless and the world switches to another currency as they are currently discussing. There is only so much of our debt that the world will be willing to buy…after that we start printing money which is not a good thing.
But the U.S. has other problems besides the National Debt. At the moment the dollar is pretty weak against most other currencies, and if the trend continues it will make the debt that much worse. It’s not as bad when the dollar is strong, but when other countries lose faith in it’s value and start turning to other currencies, the National Debt will skyrocket.
Well, my question is, and it’s a serious question, is there a bottom? Who is going to make the USA pay back trillion upon trillion of national debt? And at this point, does it even matter? It’s too big to ever be paid, and yet the USA pretty much gets to spend whatever it wants. Why would that trend end?
Essentially what I’m getting at is, the USA has been spending far beyond its means forever. Why would that change now?
The problem is, if the value of the dollar drops to low, that means that import and export costs will rise dramatically which will impact things such as oil and food. While the U.S. has always had a national debt, the value of the dollar was always a buffer. Take that buffer away and you now have not just a recession, but a full blown depression. What Obama wil probably end up having to do is cut spending in order to stave off any type of depression. Also, if other countries (i.e. China) are holding markers against the U.S. for money leant and the U.S. decides not to pay that money back, this will have an impact in other areas, most notably the IMF.
I’m not an economist by any stretch, but the last time I checked the Aussie dollar was at .93 cents to one U.S. dollar. For the last 10 years (the time I have spent moving money back and forth between the U.S. and Australia, it has usually stayed right around .60 cents to the dollar. It stands to reason that other countries that trade in currency will stop using the U.S. dollar as a benchmark and will turn to stronger more viable currencies. This then has a further impact to the value of goods shipped to and from the U.S.
If you remember, Bush spent a lot of that time vetoing bills such as the highway repair bill that would create jobs. Knowledge FTW!
Yes, only the Republicans are right. There’s not a single damn thing the Democrats are in favor of that is even remotely worthwhile, huh, cgray? We’re all just a bunch of con artists. Millions upon millions of con artists who exist solely to muck up things for Republicans. You are such a twit I can’t even believe you really exist. Therefore you must be a figment of my imagination, and I say figment be gone!!!!
Typical democratic mindset…
Sad, really…
We believe YOU exist, against our better judgments…
Actually I don’t exist. Ha! Got you there!
Yes, yes you did… how silly of me.
while you’re at it, take all your republican buddy figments with you too
If McCain were president, the Dow would be in the 4,000’s, but the Republicans wouldn’t be blaming McCain. They would say he inherited the Recession… from Clinton, of course.
If a frog had wings he wouldn’t bump his ass when he hopped. “If” statements are REALLY strong in arguements b/c they can easily be backed up with facts. (Dripping heavy with sarcasm).
If my aunt had balls, she’d be my uncle. Anybody got any more?
If a republican had a heart he/she’d be a democrat. If a democrat had any brains he/ she’d be a republican. Nope too divisive and generalizations, let’s try something new.
If a Ford would work it’d be a Volkswagon.
if i had been born with a whole brain, i could get affordable medical coverage now?
rats, still not as good as your ford/vw one….
Remarkably, in my experience it’s the other way around. Although it’s entirely possible that I got the only POS lemon Volkswagen ever rolled off the line, with my luck.
Hm… would someone please get the president a pirin? He looks like he’s getting a migraine.
bitte troll tried to give the obama a suprise neck rub, but the secret service shot at bitter troll
Good thing only fire can kill trolls.
Or acid! Don’t forget acid!
Hydrochloric or lysergic?
I ate all the lysergic.
Haha, I just noticed something. “Bitte” troll? Is that your cousin or something?
you try typeing with massive troll fingers and not get typos
tiny hooman keyboards
That’s ok. I’m just bummed no one got my Birdcage reference even thought it was more than a little out of context.
And I was wondering if BT had a cousin in Germany!
Bitte und Danke Troll?
ALL politicians suck.
But Right Wing Nuts suck more.
And their supporters suck most of all.
Usually in mens toilets.
We can’t hear you from the toilet stall you, with all that slurping going on.
oh jeez, now i have to scrape lunch off my monitor and flush out my keyboard
Epic Win! +15!
(even with my typo?)
I just figured you were going for a 1950s gansta’ dialect.
It’s coitens for you, shee…coitens.
*flips coin*
Where the river leads shall in time be revealed.
Your yoda speak improving it is.
R and Ds both kinda suck NOW? Umm…..they ALWAYS both sucked!
I know this lol kinda sucks.
It looks like SOMEbody doesn’t know what politics are.
monica sucked better.
Zat you, Bill?
Nice. Very nice. *snort*
Excuse me, but I have to rant a little bit:
How the bloody hell did Obama win the Nobel Peace Prize??? The deadline for this years submission was in February! So that means he had just been elected…. so you win a peace prize just for getting elected president? Wow, just, wow.
Again, please pardon my rant, but I just don’t understand.
For having worked for the benefit of people through collaboration.
For having had a platform representing this.
For standing for international communication/collaboration.
For standing for nuclear disarmament.
And for still winning the race.
Also – in the past, people who had not been nominated then stood for peace but could not be awarded because they had not been nominated… what’s wrong with nominating someone you want to watch for the next few months?
And, in these past months, he has made efforts in these endeavors, encouraging international collaboration.
But – feel free to rant. All your friends are doing it. It’ll make you feel good… Wanna jump off a cliff with you’re lemming frends, too?
*sorry – the above is misleading. lemmings don’t really jump off cliffs. have a nice day.
Wow, rude much?
I wanted to know WHY Obama won the peace prize, and you tell me to go jump off a cliff???
Your question was answered at least. The cliff suggestion is a lot nicer than say, “go jump in front of a train”.
I suppose, but I want to know why there was a need for personal attacks? I know this is the Internet and jerks run rapid, but can’t we have a debate/discussion without the need to tell people that you disagree with to die???
*rampant – oops spelling error.
And they run rapid too. Strike & run away fast! *Zoom*
Welcome to political debates. Either there will be name-calling or godwinding, no exceptions.
Yeah, and this one spiraled out of control pretty damn quick too. Someone clearly was attempting to make an attempt at a bipartisan LOL and ended up unleashing both sides (and everything in between).
Great fun!
It would be nice, wouldn’t it?
Oh, and news flash for MaMaQ…I know plenty of people who voted for Obama, who like Obama, but who are still confounded by this clearly premature award. There’s no need to attack everyone who disagrees with you.
i am one of these confounded voters — he’s got potential and all that; but the nobel just because he isn’t bush/cheney or mccain/palin is wimpy and premature. i don’t get it, especially since it’s my opinion that if he had lost the election he never would have been nominated in the first place.
mini good news, you have been nominated for a noble peace prize too!
bitter troll will let you know if you win
I hear they sell them at the flea market 2 for $5 now.
*laughs* why thank you bitter troll, but I don’t think I’ll win… have you seen who I’m up against? I heard Semperfidd won the Ms. USA pagent. I’m sure he’ll win.
he only won cause he slept with donald trump
But he snores so loudly!
Eeeeuw! No prize is worth sleeping with the Donald! *does icky wicky spider dance*
Well, at least THIS time she posted it on a lol that has something to do with Obama. The last time it was posted on like a Vladurday lol.
And no one has yet to answer it……
Are any of us on the Nobel committee? No. Do your own research if you’re so desperate to know the answer.
They keep asking me, but I told them I simply don’t have the time. I think they’re hoping I’ll bring cookies to the committee meetings.
“do your own research”= LOST arguement!
You’re obviously ARGUING with yourself. None of us are responsible for answering your questions. Most intelligent people do their own research and do not go trolling on LOL sights demanding answers.
because we refuse to read our newspapers to you, you win?
my gawd…if we dont read our newspapers..the terrorists win!
We have to read to them there, or they’ll expect us to read to them here!
What’s your answer then? You haven’t proposed one, so where’s the argument?
no eddie, he thinks he won the internet…dont take this away from him..its all he has
Oh right, my bad..
*lights bag, places on Eddie’s porch, runs behind bushes.*
Hehe
Sure, laugh it up buddy, but I know where you live!
IT’S POOP AGAIN!!
*stocks up on toilet paper*
“Call the fire department Edna, this one’s out of control!!”
The sportos and motor heads, geeks, sluts, bloods, wastoids, dweebies, dickheads…they all adore him. They think he’s a righteous dude.
Whoa, we’re mixing movie quotes. I don’t know if Ferris Bueller and Billy Madison mix well. But anyway.
Thank you, Grace, I think you’re wrong.
Lost argument? Nobody was even really arguing with you. We just don’t want to talk to you. Find out for yourself, lazy ass.
You actually believe that there weren’t ANY nominees that deserved the prize more? Seriously? You need to cut back on the Kool-Aid.
Oh, not trying to be mean, but is English your second language? Once again, not being mean in the least bit. It’s just that your logic and writing are difficult to follow/make sense of.
well bitter troll is an evil dirty liberal, and he is confused on why obama won the shiny metal prize thing too.
but lets accept a few things.
Obama didnt ask for it, wasnt trying to get it.
obama didnt call that noble guy and say, hey im not George, gimme the metal mario magic coin.
pretty sure obama might be a bit confused by this too.
I’m a ebul, durty, pinko, commie, red, card-carrying liburl and I approve BT’s message!!
MaMaQ defending the Nobel committee’s decision is just ridiculous. Like you said, BT, most people, including the POTUS, is confused by the award.
I would say that he probably doesn’t deserve a Nobel Prize (yet, hopefully someday he will). I still think it’s kinda cool that he won, though, and hopefully it shows the world what he wants to achieve: more diplomacy, less explosions. Clearly, this has not happened yet as we’re still in fvcking Iraq and are going in heavier into Afghanistan and whatever. Hopefully the Nobel Committee doesn’t end up regretting this award. And who has the Kool-Aid? Is there any strawberry left?
*hands Kool-Aid to Rando* All I have is cherry. I put a little extra “sugar” in it for you.
Yay! Mmmmmm…say, who else thinks Obama is the greatest man to ever live? *slurps up Kool-Aid*
before this obama was a mild mannered reporter for a major city newspaper you kn0w -slurp-
I remember hearing him say once that he was born on Krypton to Jor-El. I know technically that would make the birthers right, but he’s just too awesome to kick out of office. Hey, refill over here! *slurps*
*nods* you are right about that. Obama didn’t ask for it, and I’m sure he was quite shocked to receive it. I just found an article Here about the committee talking about the award.
I would like world peace……Can I get nominated now for the Nobel Peace Prize? I know I have not done anything but I still want it.
semperfidd, gratz you have been nominated for the noble peace prize now! good luck in winning
No, no, no, bitter troll. Semperfidd wins Ms. USA pagent. He answered the interview question correctly stating that he would like world peace.
but he totally lost the bathing suit part of the pagent
I’m not touching that one with a 10 ft pole.
Can we send maps to the US Americans and the Iraq now?
dammit. i’m having to fake a bad case of the coughs right now.
How did you know that was his talent portion?
Semper it’s world peas!!! To go with world mashed potatoes.
WHIRLED. Whirled peas to go with whirled mashed potatoes. They’re creamier that way.
Breaking News: Obama just won the Heisman Trophy for watching a college football game!!!!
Okay, folks, you can’t really get mad at Obama for winning the Nobel Peace Prize. You CAN get mad at the Nobel committee. Obama’s taken a lot of crap for this, and he didn’t have anything to do with it. Blame them.
He coulda turned it down. You know show those leadership skills he has. Besides in my joke where does it make fun of Obama? It’s playing off the situation.
Would you turn down a Nobel Prize?! I wouldn’t! The committee decided he deserved it who’s he to argue? I really don’t get it myself, but I’m not on the committee am I? Can’t you just be happy the U.S. president won it?
Ever hear of receiving stolen property? Or refusing a reward that wasn’t earned? The first is a crime, the second a show of good character.
wait…are you saying obama somehow stole the noble peace prize?O.O
Not at all. But if a neighbor gives you something stolen, and you know it’s stolen, it’s a crime in most states.
WTH does that have to do with Obama’s Nobel? I honestly have no idea where you’re going with this.
He knows he didn’t deserve it. He knows it was not an honest award.
It was too an honest award. They gave it to him. They wanted him to have it. There was no trickery. Nobody forced them to give it to him. It was their decision. Obama didn’t do anything wrong. And again, do you really think that would’ve gone over well if he had said, “No, I don’t want this?”
It was a slap in the face of all those who have done real work in this world and deserve recognition.
Which is not Obama’s fault. Blame the Nobel people. WTF is he supposed to say? “Thanks for the award, but actually, I suck balls. You can have this back. I’m really just a fvcking tool.” I mean, sure, most conservatives would love to see that, but that’s ridiculous.
There’s also the diplomacy thing. I suspect that a lot of the EU would be really p-oed if he had refused it, and then when he needed EU backing for something…like maybe more support in Afghanistan, then he might not get that support. I don’t know this for sure, but I suspect that may have very well been in the decision-making mix.
For real. Turning down the Peace Prize could easily be misconstrued as him saying “Eh, I’m not really all that much for peace.” That’s NOT the picture he wants to paint of himself.
Maybe the euro community needs a wake up call. But then again, so does the US.
But, again, that’s not really Obama’s call. He RECEIVED and honour, he did not ask for it nor did he beg borrow or steal it. The blame is being misplaced on Obama.
Yeah, if someone gives you a major honor like a fvcking Nobel Peace Prize, then no, you don’t give that one back! And who’s to say he can even give it back? Has that happened before? Has anyone given it back?
Dude, *I* wouldn’t turn down a Nobel Peace Prize, and I’ve done even less to deserve it than Obama. And I’d likely KEEP the award money that goes with it. Obama is at least donating his to charity. Can someone at least give him credit for that?
“Obama is at least donating his to charity. Can someone at least give him credit for that?”
Of course not! He’s a durty SOCIALLLLIIIIISSSSTTTT, COMMMMUUUUNIIIISTTT, NAZZZZIIIIII!!! /sarcasm
That’s true. We elected him, but he’s a filthy liberal, so let’s BURN HIM AT THE STAKE!!!! /mega sarcasm
If we burn him, can I then have the money? I like money.
Nope. Already going to charity. Oh wait, make that charroty. Huh. That’s interesting. It said charity a few minutes ago, now it says charroty. Very odd.
give to the charroity…or bitter troll will eat your face
I am a charroty, fo sho.
The best nation in the world? Donation!
But the point is, while he was nominated and won, his moral compass should have kicked in and turned it down. It really negates the value of the Nobel Peace Prize when compared to others that have won it.
And that wouldn’t be perceived as a snub to the Nobel Pirze committee?
Yes, and that would be a good thing.
Why would that be a good thing?
Accepting someone else’s dishonesty is promoting it. Taking a stand against it would be a good thing.
Dishonesty? Who was being dishonest? Is this some big conspiracy theory?
Don’t distract with comments like that. It’s below you Rando. Even you have commented on here that the award was not deserved. That was dishonesty on the Nobel Prize committee’s part.
It wasn’t dishonesty. It was a bad decision. I’m not going to fault Obama for accepting an award presented to him. I will find fault with the Nobel committee for overlooking more deserving candidates to make a political statement, which I would consider a bad decision, not dishonest.
Well Rando, chalk it up to one more thing we disagree on.
Fair enough. We’ll be good and stop here. See, everyone? It didn’t get ugly!
*sneaks off to put flaming bag of poo on JAC’s porch*
*giggles at the little bag of flaming poo, knowing the huge bag of flaming poo left on Radno’s porch, with bottle rockets in it*
If he was to give reasoned rationale as to why he was turning it down, no, I don’t think it would be considered a snub. Let’s face, almost everyone is saying, “WTF?” and had he turned it down, can you imagine how much value that would have given Obama in terms of being ethical? I know my opinion of him would have gone up ten fold had he done so. As it is, nearly everyone is saying it wasn’t deserved to the point where the Nobel Committee is having to defend their decision. I don’t recall a time in my history where they have had to do that before.
Well, what it comes down to is that it is THEIR decision. They give out the award, so they can decide who gets it and why. Most of us believe (and I probably agree) that it was done as a political statement. The Nobel people like Obama and his peacemaking intentions over Bush’s warmongering. And I think you’re wrong about how it would be taken. I think there would just as much of an uproar over Obama turning it down no matter what the reason was. Obama hasn’t earned that award YET. Maybe they’re hoping it will give him a little extra motivation to fill the shoes of a NPP winner properly. I certainly hope it does. I’ve been underwhelmed with his wishy-washy handling of Iraq.
Rando: I have to say that a “diplomatic” person as good as Obama, should be able to turn down the Nobel Peace Prize, and keep his integrity intact. Obama has on numerous times been given chances to show great leadership skills, and he tends to fail miserably. First example is the whole Gated dilemma. At a press conference for Health Care, he’s asked a question about Gates. Instead of saying, “This is a forum about Health Care, let’s stay on topic.” He answers the question. To add insult to injury he answers it in a very divisive way, vice a unifying way. Follow-up was not done all too well either.
Another example is how he stood behind many of his cabinet choices, even after they were determined to not paid taxes or broken some sort of tax code they were responsible for.
Another example Date Night. I know Obama supporters LOVE to deny this one. He spent half to one million dollars to fly to NYC about two or three days AFTER asking Americans to make sacrafices in today’s economy. Once again lack of leadership, and yes the President should get some time off, however NOT at the expense of tax payers he just asked to make sacrafices.
In response to your “Maybe we’re hoping it will give him a little extra motivation to fill the shoes of a NPP winner properly”. WTF!!! You don’t give a covetted distinguished prize like the NPP to someone you HOPE will do the right thing. It’s supposed to be for what they have accomplished.
you think they called him elitist before, if he turned that thing down, the repub’s would be screaming, “see? he thinks he’s too good for the award!”
alot of people won’t be happy no matter what he does
Unfortunately that is very true: no one is ever happy. Push a guy down in the mud, you’re a bad guy. Offer the same guy a hand back to his feet, you’re a bad guy. Raid that same guy’s village, burn his house, defile his women, kill his brothers, and guess what: that’s right, you’re a bad guy.
No one ever wins in this world.
He can’t even take his wife out to diner without being criticized for not working hard enough. It’s petty and trivial how his critics just take whatever he does and they spin it so they can shape other people’s opinion of him negatively.
Just like the trivial pettiness of the last 8 years…..
Lying to a country in order to get approval to invade another country vs trying to get the olympics to Chicago; you tell me which is more petty to criticize?
It started before then. Or you would have a good point. Nice try.
This is very true wicket. What I find mind boggling is that republicans are now lambasting him for going to Copenhagen to vouch for Olympics in America. Meanwhile, the republican president we previously had spent 1/3 of his 8 term as president on vacation.
It’s the way of politics, find something bad about the opposing team, even when you have no ground to stand on, or have to make things up. It’s just how politics works.
Pretty much no matter what Obama does, the Republicans will find fault in it. If he hadn’t gone to vouch for the Olympics in America, he would’ve been called unpatriotic and roasted for not trying to bring the extra jobs and money that having the Olympics would bring. Some people claim that they don’t feel like that, and they’d give him a chance if he did something they approve of, but frankly I don’t buy it.
Maybe he should do something that conservatives approve of. HELL maybe he should just do something besides talk shows, award shows, press conferences, and trips overseas to get the Olympics. Maybe do something about the debt (passing a second Stimulous Package wouldn’t count), Afghanastan’s going to hell (wasn’t that one of his campaign tools), possibly do something about Iran’s second nuclear facility, do something about Korea’s test firing missles…. just a few small details.
PS do you think his rating is below 50% b/c only Republicans think he’s doing a crappy job?
Yeah, it does seem that the Republicans have learned the dirty name calling and petty bickering of the Democrats.
They didn’t really start it, but they sure have surpassed their teachers!
I don’t know about that. Both sides are just as bitter. And not in the Bitter Troll good sort of way.
bitter? naw..well a lil…but both sides seem extreamly childish and spoiled.
YOUR not in my party…so i will vote against your bill no matter what
YOUR not in my party…so even if your president im going to probe your past till i find SOMETHING i can use…
I DONT care if millions of people need that bill, your NOT in my party so i will hold it up and try to ruin it
Or taking your wife out to dinner costing taxpayers money, after you asked those same taxpayers to make sacrafices. Wicket you missed why we criticized in the first place. And no I would have gained respect (I have 0 for him now) for Obama if he had turned it down. It just shows how much integrity he lacks.
Hey, didn’t Diss have a FANTASTIC lol for this photo? WTF happened to that? It was funny and timely and I gave it a “5″. This one really sucks. I’d like to give it a negative 5.
I give it a negative five……..THOUSAND.
Yeah, I wish that were possible beyond the confines of my mind.
Sorry, I rambled, it’s just that I have so much to say and no real forum to let it out and discuss it with reasonable people.
So… you came on here?
What does your bible say about greed and/or the sick and needy? I see a lot in your post that says “as long as I can afford my own health care then I’m ok with the status quo, and screw anybody who can’t afford it themselves”. I find that biblically stupid. If you are gonna preach it, you should practice it as well.
That’s not what I said at all. I said it’s improper for the government to FORCE that on people. Personally, I believe helping those poor people is the province of charities and other social organizations and *possibly* state government. The point is it has no place in federal government.
I don’t think a mandate is the right way to do it either. But i do think that the government has certain obligations towards helping it’s own citizens. We the people tell the fed where it’s place is, and on this issue I believe the fed would be a better insurance company than what our current choices are.
And that, I have no problem with. That’s your opinion and you may even be right. What I have a problem with is the feds reaching in my life, and other peoples lives, and forcing us to buy something we might not want.
I agree with you on that. The government shouldn’t be criminalizing not having health insurance.
They’ve criminalized a lot worse. I think our wonderful government has decided to think for the American people, rather than people think for themselves. Anyone see Idiocracy?
Well, people are kinda stupid and ignorant, that’s why we have the government. So they can get a good look at the whole picture and fix the problems. Also, Idiocracy was a great movie.
And the smart male at the beginning shares my name! I hope that’s not a prediction of my future… though he sure was thin.
Too bad the government is made up of self-serving ignorant idoitic people, making it stupid and ignorant! I’d rather screw up my own life, thank you very much!
Well, you’re free to do that if you want I guess. No one is stopping you…
The government is.
The government is NOT stopping n00bs or anyone from screwing up their own life. That’s silly.
Actually, according to your God, helping those poor people is directly your responsibility. You should give up all your worldly belongings and help all those in need, not rely on charities and social organizations.
The Bible also says God gives us material blessings “for our enjoyment.” Only to a few specific people is there ever a mention of “sell everything and give to the poor.” Obviously there’s a lot promoting generosity in the Bible, and there’s clear support for helping the needy in one’s (extended) community, but people like VictoryNotVengeance above either a) haven’t actually READ scripture or b) are just looking for an excuse to call a Christian a hypocrite so they don’t have to deal with their own shortcomings.
…Probably both.
Actually, I have read the the Bible a couple of times for a couple of uses. The Chritian faith is designed fo that people will be Christ-like. Otherwise, they can be Jews. The reason Christ was so famous was because of his poverty, his generocity, and his love. His ascension and resurrection were big helpers too.
And besides, I never said sell anything. I said give up. As in, let those materialistic things not hold importance to you over the needs of your neighbor.
Don’t argue with Eso. He’s one of those crazy hyper-”christians”. You’ll only regret it later.
*gets home from pawn shop* Ah godDAMNIT VNV!! I just sold everything? What am I going to do with all this cash now?
*ponders*
VNV Nation is gonna be in Holland and the UK in the next few weeks with Frozen Plasma and Ayria. Sounds like a fun way to spend your life’s worth. Then just join commune someplace! I’d let you crash.
*has a sad she didn’t really go to the pawn shop*
Also, I doubt it’s worth all that much anyway. But I tell you what.. Holland does sound good. It’s so beautiful there. And I would LOVE to see VNV again! *ponders*
Funny thing is that’s what you should do too. Start with your computer.
Ouch
I don’t think VNV claims to be Christian. I might be assuming incorrectly, but that’s how I read “your God.” You know, like not my god.
No, but he is a Leftist, which amounts to the same thing, if the Leftist has the courage to lead from the front.
I’m neither Christian nor Leftist, so… guess I’m safe from that particular line of attack.
I shouldn’t speak for him, but VNV has mentioned in the past that he is an advocate for the poor, in his professional life.
Ah, nice cheap words. Kind of like the way I advocate for expanding the Space Program?
(Well, except that before I took over the living expenses for my sick wife, I actually donated my yearly tax overpayment refund to NASA. Nowadays I don’t get any refund, so…)
On the other hand, now that I support her, I guess I’M being an example of localized leftist thought, on a very small scale. Hmm… food for thought there. What if we ALL did that? Just took care of ONE other person?
Ironically, I work helping people pay for a college education. And no, I am not Christian. I am a Leftist. I think most PKers know that by now. All in all, I think I can and will play the role of whatever you need me to play/be so that you can feel justified in forgetting what your religion actually means.
And PS. suicide_blonde pays some dang attention. I didn’t even get back on to whine before you told all my secrets! g/j!
Didn’t mean to steal your thunder VNV
Ironically, I work at a college.
Can we try and do a better job of helping to keep idiots OUT?
If I have to explain I how to use a 3-hole-punch to someone who supposedly graduated high school one more time, I may get all stabby.
Or. for that matter, why smoking in the chemistry lab is a BAD idea.
Or that when the sign says we are taking our lunch break and will be back later, it is not an invitation to come looking for us and interrupt our only eating time.
I never said that everyone that waked through my door was a genious, but they all have an equally desearving chance at higher education.
You know what you get when you give stupid people a chance at higher education?
Creationists who put “Dr.” by their names.
You give them a chance at a better life? You give them a chance to break through the glass ceiling that has been build for them? You give them important lessons learned through histories (which are very poorly taught in high school). You make them aware of the human condition around the world. You give them tools that were otherwise not meant for them. The tools of thinking, reading, and comprehending.
From my experiance, the only creationists I have ever run into were the right wingers, and normally they went to college because daddy paid for it. If anything, I prefer to have people go to college who repsect the fact that they have to find ways to pay for it way more that some of those who go just to party for four years and go back to work at dad’s dealership.
@ slaggingham
Wow… you’re against educating the stupid… that’s revolting…
I’m in favor of educating the ignorant. Not the stupid.
Ignorant people can actually learn. Stupid is forever.
Also, you’re abhorrent. As to whether you are stupid or merely ignorant, I make no judgement yet.
My gosh… you’re a horrible person. Your argument amounts to, “They’re stupid so they’re worthless trash that doesn’t even qualify as human.” Can you not see how awful that is!? Look, I dislike stupid people being in power as much as anyone, but how does that justify oppression?! You have no idea what “equality” means, do you; or do you simply not care? Remember, there’s this thing called the constitution, you should read it sometime.
“You give them important lessons learned through histories (which are very poorly taught in high school)”
You mean the government run school system does a poor job? Shocking.
“I prefer to have people go to college who repsect the fact that they have to find ways to pay for it way more that some of those who go just to party for four years and go back to work at dad’s dealership”
Hmm…how are the scholorships and grants funded? Maybe from “rich daddies”
I think you’re right. I have this vague memory of VNV stating he’s an atheiest in another LOL.
I believe in a diety. I have just taken all the world religions to decide formyself who or what that essence of reality might be. I don’t care for the use of intermediaries, avatars, or illegitimate children.
That must have been something that someone else said about you then. I did say it was a vague memory. Sorry for the assumption and thanks for straightening it up for me!
Its ok. One man’s personal self enlightenment journey is another man’s athiest communist. lol! I take no offense! usually ever
I can solve that? Ok, ok, just teasing!
All religions are equally silly. This includes mine. It also especially includes followers of the Red God.
I think Pope Palpatine would find your lack of faith… disturbing.
LOL Pope Palpatine…
My keyboard now needs to be cleaned, I hope you’re completely reveling in the humor you caused.
No, Cardinal Vader would find his lack of faith…disturbing. Pope Palpatine knows that Luke’s compassion will be his undoing.
If you think your religion is silly then why do you claim it?
bitter troll’s religion is not silly, its NOODLY
Yes, it very much is DIRECTLY our responsibility as INDIVIDUALS. The bible does NOT say give your money to a government and hope they will help the poor. We are to be good stewards with what God has given us as individuals. Please don’t ever use that excuse again to justify a growing greedy governmet, especially since they won’t even guarantee that government health care will not be used to fund abortions.
Actually, government refusal to ban coverage for abortions under a public option is a good thing, in my opinion.
In any case, socialized medicine isn’t charity, it’s paid for through taxpayer dollars.
Yes, taxpayers that are Christian and would not want their money used to fund abortions for spiritual reasons. I don’t see how the government can even think of doing something like that. There shoudl be private institutions that can fund abortions for people but Christians should not be forced to pay for it.
Alright n00bs. Statistically, under any one of the proposed health care bills, what percentage of taxpayer dollars would be used to pay for medical coverage for those who are not taxpayers? Further, what percentage of that money would be used to fund abortions for those who are not taxpayers?
If you think that the premium you spend (and/or your employer spends) on medical insurance is used only for your own healthcare, you are mistaken. Insurance companies pool risk, which means that right now, as we speak, someone somewhere could be getting an abortion paid for partially through the premiums you pay to insurance companies.
Of course, those are voluntary payments arent’ they? If someone objects they could stop paying for those. Try to stop paying your taxes…
So, as an opponent of abortions, you should stop buying medical insurance since portions of those premiums go towards covering abortions.
Not all of them cover abortions.
Not all insurance companies cover abortions?
Does yours?
We just got a big list of stuff our insurance doesn’t cover, so I checked — abortion’s only covered when it’s medically necessary, basically. Which is about what I’d expect, they don’t really cover much of anything elective.
Diss, my point is that just because your specific plan doesn’t cover elective abortions doesn’t mean that the insurance carrier that provides your plan doesn’t offer plans that cover elective abortions.
In any case, a public option should mirror the abortion laws which prevail in any given state.
“..abortion’s only covered when it’s medically necessary, basically. Which is about what I’d expect, they don’t really cover much of anything elective.”
“In any case, a public option should mirror the abortion laws which prevail in any given state.”
gawd, i love it when people start making comments using that whole logic thing. makes my head hurt less.
thanks diss & sb
“Statistically, under any one of the proposed health care bills, what percentage of taxpayer dollars would be used to pay for medical coverage for those who are not taxpayers? ”
That is a trick question. I don’t think anyone has read any of the proposed health care bills. Not even the ones voting on them. Heaven forbid that they actually post it on the internet 72 hours before they actually vote on it.
It’s not a trick question, it’s just a question that no one on this forum knows the answer to, myself included.
Point being, why get all up in arms about how many of your hard-earned-red-blooded-American dollars will go to covering the unemployed when you don’t even what kind of figures you’re talking about? What if it’s 2%? Would it be worth 2% of abuse in order to provide coverage to 50 million uninsured Americans?
There are not 50 million uninsured Americans. There may be 50 million uninsured Americans and illegal aliens. The latest number quoted is 30 million uninsured Americans. Of that 30 million about half have the means to purchase insurance but do not. Why don’t we just work on reforming the system we have and work towards covering the 10 to 15 million uninsurable Americans? Why do we need to ultimately end up with government controled insurance on all 320 million? As for the abortion issue, I am pro choice as well, I chose live; however I know that I cannot or would not impose my beliefs on all people as I value freedom and liberty unlike most on the left.
Wow! 320 million people on the same insurace plan? Do you have any idea how cheap that would be for each individual? I hope your fears come to fruition! I am tired of paying hundreds of dollars a month. Bring on that group rate!
Semper, there are lots of numbers floating around out there. From the NCHC:
“Several studies estimate the number of uninsured Americans. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, nearly 47 million Americans, or 20 percent of the population under the age of 65, were without health insurance in 2008, their latest data available.”
Anyway, that’s neither here nor there. Neither number is acceptable. Clearly reform of some kind is necessary, even to those of us on the left, for whom liberty and freedom have no value.
What about Christians who get abortions? Oh wait, that’s right, only dirty heathens do that. Christians would never do anything so horrible and evil. :rolleyes:
*roll* but not *’s… like this
They may, I don’t want to pay for it though because I think it is taking a life.
Too bad you’re wrong in that respect. But I won’t argue that here, it pisses people off.
And nobody on this thread is pissed off at all. LOL
Sigh. He’s not wrong. You’re not wrong. He’s not right. You’re not right.
It all depends on your definition of life. Hell, he even qualified it with “I think” implying that there is a possibility that he is wrong. He didn’t say it is.
And, by the way, I agree with him.
first off you need to establish what “life” is, which last time i checked that in and of itself is somewhat ambiguous. i mean, depending on how far you take it a rock is alive.
besides (off topic, sort of) – you take life every day, there’s germs that die by the billions when you shower, small bugs you kill on your car, those plants in your salad are screaming in their own planty way when you eat them, not to mention the no less than 4 dead things on that cheeseburger…
just saying’, cannibalism is in baby! oh wait, i mean.. ah crap, i forgot where i was going with that.
“cannibalism is in baby!” Your missing comma in this sentence gives this sentence a rather sinister possible meaning. Especially for bitter troll, who likes eating baby.
I agree that it’s taking a life, and I’m also pro-choice.
Ditto.
Oh, and I was responding to VNV above who said the bible says that Christians should be in favor of health care reform…
I didn’t say Christians should be in favor of health care reform. I said that anyone who is actually a Christian is morally responsible for the betterment of mankind and must be willing to lose everything in the attempy to help people. Now if getting people healthcare is part of that sure. Maybe you should say a little prayer and ask Jesus what he would do?
“Dear Jesus, should I use this opportunity to try and give everyone healthcare? Or should we make sure only those who can afford it get it?”
I bet I know the answer!
Then I again say:
Yes, it very much is DIRECTLY our responsibility as INDIVIDUALS. The bible does NOT say give your money to a government and hope they will help the poor. We are to be good stewards with what God has given us as individuals.
And so, yes it is our responsibility to help others, not help the government, who may or may not help others, at least in the way they need to be helped according to our faith. I would rather give the money to my church.
I don’t remember ever saying give your money to the government. You were doing that long before PK. Now, if I was to talk about money, which I normally don’t, because i don’t really believe in its use, I would say:
1) use it wisely
2) if its the method you chose than you cannot let those go without
3) if the power it causes is being abused that it is also a responsibility to remove those from power, or remove the money from the offending parties and then redistribute based on which parties the individual hurt
4) Time is the only real currency, and we are all equal
5) The pursuit of self and surrounding improvement must always take precedence of obtaining it
6) In the end, its either just a piece of paper or an imaginary electronic credit, and due to the fact that its so commonplace, I would value it well beneath descency, love, and willingness to help others.
It’s much easier for me to decide and to give the money to those I feel are helping others or to directly give to those in need. No middle men needed.
@ n00bs — isn’t there a quote in the new testament something about rendering unto caesar that which is caesar’s – ie – pay your taxes?
I think he would say that you are framing things in such a way to win points for your point of view. And remind you that he said there would always be the poor, and that we are to take individual responsibility in taking care of them.
There “always being poor” cannot be a goal. There may always be poor. It is our job to reduce that number.
You can try, but you can’t dictate to me what to do. You aren’t God.
@ n00bs
Wow… God-complex much?
Do or do not. There is no try.
Besides, I helped elect officials that can do it for me.
And I beg to differ. We are all god.
Reduce and eliminate are 2 different things.
@no1 – what?
@VNV – huh? Did you create yourself? Can you stop yourself from dying? How can you say you are a god? I know I’m not.
First off, a wise man once said “If someone asks if you’re a god, you say ‘Yes!’” That should answer most of the question.
For the rest I would say “In my mind I can create anything. In my mind I cannot die. We are all a part of everything. Everything is a part of us. And the combined essence that is reality are all parts of the same entity which you call God. Without us, there is no him, and vice versa. So yes. I think we are all god.” ((note: not god(s)))
I have been failing at telekenesis for long enough to know I have no supernatural powers.
Which wise man? There are many self proclaimed wisemen throughout history, most of them ignorant.
The wisest men know that they are fools, that they are men, and that they are fallible.
Unless I’m mistaken, I believe that’s follows the Socratic line of Philosophy.
It was a mane by the name of Winston Zeddemore.
You can of course believe what you want to believe because we live in a free country. But as soon as your religion starts to tell me how I should live, that’s when we start to have trouble. I like helping the poor, but it’s my choice.
@VNV – ghostbusters ref FTW
He… was a fictional character… from Ghostbusters… a comedy. You best be jokin’, boy, or else I’ll have to break out tha’ ole’ Argument Beat Stick of the Monkey.
Hey, Ghostbusters had plenty of wisdom to it. For example, DON’T cross the streams. Nobody steps on a church in my town. And the best plan ever: GET HER!!!!!!
Way to belittle someones religion. How about….
“Dear Diety, should I continue to promote the elimination of the upper class?”
The people in the upper class don’t die. They just stop being upper class. Quit saying like I am killing someone. They can live lives of semi luxury. I am sure they will be ok.
Also, I haven’t belittled anyone’s religion. If anything, I am very clearly stated some of the religions most basic beliefs in a very “i have no problem with this” manner.
So.. QQ Whimperfidd.
Actually calling Jesus an illegitimate child was rather belittling. God is his father, and known to be.
And since you say you believe in Deity, just not necessarily the same on as others, I would think your comment is disrespectful to even yourself.
I never called anyone specific an illegitimate child, and there are so many “born of man” stories in religion that predate Christ that its not funny. And what I was saying is that a person has a direct connection with the deity of their choice. And I believe I don’t need a middleman of any type. Jesus could have been any one of those examples or none.
Ok, fair enough. I don’t take Jesus as the middle man either. But as Emanuele, God with us. The very Deity that I worship in human flesh.
Can you really call Jesus illegitimate anyway? I mean, his mom was married when he was born, just not to his dad. Kind of an unusual family.
So who is going to set the “semi luxury” standard? DefeatNotVengeance? If I sounded like I was inferring that you wanted to kill the upper class, my mistake. Just so you can understand it more clearly, by “elimination” I was refering to your many comments of removing the wealth from people who earn it. Is that better?
As for the belittle comment. I must admit I read your comment with attitude. I went back and reread it and can see if read in a different tone/mindset, that it could come off differently. For that I appologize.
I dunno Justa… an immaculate conception… Joseph didn’t sleep with Mary… and they were married. That sounds like our definition of illegitimate childbirth to me…
Unless you want to run on the logic that “When God does it, it’s not illegitimate”
so you have no idea why the feds are involved in things like education and social services?
try reading about living conditions in the south, especially the rural areas, and the rural anywhere — federal funding came about to balance the high tax base states/areas with the places that had nothing so that everyone has the same opportunity to succeed — now the disparity is between inner city (urban schools) and the suburbs for education & medical care — of course the feds stepped in to end the ’separate but equal’ because it wasn’t, isn’t and won’t be – only now it isn’t based on color so much as tax base. and as long as there is a disparity between the haves and the have nots, the federal government belongs as an overseer to level the playing field for everyone –
read your history books – the real ones, not the fairy tale version
Read the Constitution, not the fairy tale version.
I prefer not to read, but have it read to me, like books on tape. Imagine Morgan Freeman readin gthe Constitution? We could do the Samuel L. Jackson version as well. The mother f&*king First Amendment, moter f&*cking says, Freedom of Speech mother f&*king b%tch.
I prefer James Earl Jones or Alexander Scourby.
I prefer Alan Rickman, personally. That British accent would provide just the right irony were he to read the constitution.
the version before the amendments or the one that includes all the legally adopted changes?
Well, a good start would be Article 1, section 8. And the 10th Amendment.
Semantics. It’s a living document, subject to the whim of the politicians in charge (both Repubs and Dems).
Bravo! Bravo! *Claps, whistles* Best post on this website. I could not have said this any better myself.
On the fact that Utopia doesn’t exist. I have to strongly disagree, as I know that there is a well established Utopia in Ouagadougou. This magical city floats high in the sky, ruled by magical elves that dress up in insane purple robes and have glowing blue eyes. They smoke all sorts of things that they find in their sewers, and then participate in gladitorial battles, also in the sewers. There are magical portals leading to all other capitals in the world, but once you step through, you can never come back. (Unless you can fly of course…)
Why am I making up a random city? (that BTW does have 1 (one) real fact about it.) It’s because America has a distinct lack of purple robes, glowing blue eyes, and gladitorial arenas in the sewers. Therefore, America is nowhere near being to Utopia, the closest REAL place (except for Ouagadougou, ) to Utopia must be found in Athens Greece, where the sea is warm, the beachs are sandy, and the tzatziki is fresh. To all you greeks on here, Yasas, Ti kaneis?
Ummm, Dalaran?
ROFLMFAO
Athens stinks of exhaust fumes.
Now? Someone has not been paying attention.
You invalidated the rest of your post when you said you were a christian. You believe in fairy tales, belong to a death cult, and wish to impose the restrictions of your religion on everyone else because you are not strong enough or not faithful enough to resist temptation, so it is impossible to take you seriously.
You invalidated your entire post, period. Who are YOU to judge people’s beliefs??
*sigh* Not again Dave… you need to loosen up.
hey everyone, lets get dave laid…bitter troll thinks he needs it bad
He can have one of the hookers I’m blowing all my money on. I sure don’t want them.
LOL, you got me. That’s EXACTLY what I said. I want to force all of you to believe in my religion and if you don’t you’re a BAD PERSON!
Seriously, your kind of hypocrisy and intolerance are self defeating and you should take a long look at yourself before judging someone else.
I hope you let go that hate one day, it’s bad for you.
BTW, Villany, when’s our next death cult meeting? We have to decide on our next sacrifice!
Can I nominate Dave?
I don’t even think we need to put that to a vote. Dave wins…or loses. Heh.
Dave..what are you doing Dave. Dave, please don’t remove those. Marizy dotes…..
*claps* 2001 FTW!!!
I thought “you people” only sacrificed babies. Or is that the Jews?
Yeah, that’s only us. You know why? Cause god ASKED us to!
Well the convention was only a month ago. If anybody remembers that.
uh, hey guys, i don’t mean to burst ya’ll’s bubble or nothing, but i copyrighted “a death cult” for the name of my personal death cult. please refer to your cult as “life-impaired” cult henceforth, otherwise, it’ll be 50 cents per usage. as stated in the terms of service.. you know.. with the death god (i call him ted).
Villany, is it a sin that I now want to smack Dave in the head with a carp?
Oh, it’s a sign that Dave’s on smack that his head is full of crap.
Hey I see what you did there. You flipped lettering around and words around… that’s funny!!!
Yeah, but the good part is you can always do it and ask forgiveness later.
I don’t think thats how it works. You can’t just premeditate and do something and then just up and ask forgiveness later. I think you are missing the point of repentance.
Well, the “wanting to” part, that’s repentable, right?
Everything is repentable as long as you actually feel bad about doing it. So the question is- Do you actually feel bad about wanting to?
I think I’m going to have to work on that one.
“Everything is repentable”
Not true. Mortal sins are not repentable (well, at least according to Catholic theology).
But then, aren’t religious theologies merely arbitrary sets of rules created by man?
You mean like the laws of our legal system??!!!
Only if you’re a sociopath
Oh, shoot! Profiled by SB! I am undone.
According to my priest, yes they are. Like I said before, everything is repentable. Nothing is beyond God’s forgiveness if we sincerely want it. Now, if you don’t repent for a mortal sin before you die, then you could have problems.
And those are all generic “you’s” in there, not you specifically.
Forgiveness is foolishness if you ask me…
Wow, holding a grudge will eventually eat you up, you need to be able to forgive for your own well being.
Ayup. Anyone seen that episode of King of the Hill where Hank has to take anger management classes? And the guy he befriends raeges himself to death?
Well, grudges are like that. Except instead of a spectacular, foamy mouthed death, you sort of die a little inside every day.
“holding a grudge will eventually eat you up”
Not if you spend the time wisely and plan elaborate, perfect crime, murder scenarios.
Grudge and forgiveness are two separate things. Simply ignoring ones past actions because they’re “sorry” is just plain stupid.
You can forgive someone without being stupid enough to be fooled by them again. As a great…um, well, not great, uh, as a man once said, “Fool me once, shame on me………..you…you can’t get fooled again.”
Not only do you have to feel bad enough to repent, but you have to beg forgiveness, and then promise to change your ways. Which means no premeditated fish slaps again.
However, in thoery, you can get away with anything as long as you believe that Christ died on the cross for your sins and was the resurrected the son of God three days later.
Including child rapers, murders, and terrorists.
Which is one of the flaws of the religion.
However, i personally believe that over time we will all return back to our point of origin. Regardless of our moral affiliation.
Genuine repentance and feeling bad are not the same thing.
I agree.
Wow, 2 minor implosions in 2 days. Can the universe stand much more of this?
I doubt it. Try to imagine all life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light.
Full protonic reversal. And yes, its bad.
Reminds me of a guy I saw on the History Channel the other day talking about what the effect would be if the earth suddenly ceased rotating on its axis. (Nothing good). The memorable thing about it was that he seemed genuinely happy and excited about the possibility, although that may have been mostly “Hey, usually people change the subject when I want to talk about this!”
Important safety tip, thanks, Egon.
It’s true. This man has no dick.
Well, everything is “repentable,” even something premeditated. But obviously “I’ll just do this and then ask forgiveness” is a serious misunderstanding of grace.
Still, I think even God gets a chuckle out of the idea of smacking Dave with a carp.
i only play god(dess) on the internets occassionally, but i find the idea of smacking dave with a carp amusing – will that work for you?
No VNV, then you would need to repent for planing the whole thing in the first place.
Oh those fish slappers learned their lesson. Have you not seen Veggietales Jonah movie?
You again? Why do you keep coming back here, dick sniffer? Christianity is not a death cult. Your anger towards religion is ridiculous and requires therapy. You shouldn’t harbor that kind of anger towards anyone, much less something that gives people hope and happiness. Take your hatred of the planet and go drown yourself with it.
Every developed nation except for America has some form of socialized medicine that works better than our system and costs less.
End of rant.
“Works better” is rather a matter of opinion I’d say. Granted, I haven’t researched every country, but I do have friends in both Canada and GB. My friends in Canada say it takes at least 6 months, usually longer, to see a specialist, and the waiting lists for surgery can be even longer.
They also say that having a checkup at a private clinic costs over $1000. The one guy I know in GB reports much the same thing.
I’m sorry if those two reports don’t match what the news tells us, I’d rather believe people I personally know.
Canada varies greatly depending on the province, just so you know.
ANd how much snow you have to drive thru to get there, eh ?
I’m sure it does, but what does it say that it’s FAR worse than it is here in at least some places.
Most of those places don’t have quality lapses due to being socialized, but rather to specific legislation within the provincial government and social/cultural difficulties.
For example: Quebec, usually the province that has the worst complaints, have personnel issues. Patients sometimes complain that there is not enough staff, and the staff that is there is either overworked or doesn’t seem to care. This is noted as being partially a problem of the high population of French-Canadian in Quebec. The province apparently produces quite a bit of qualified health and medical personnel, but many often leave for other provinces due to not wishing to learn French. Most of the problems are legislative, however.
And wait times… Boo hoo. I had to apply several months in advance to have my scoliosis looked at when I was younger. Had to go to a hospital 2 hours away and wait for probably 3 hours in the waiting room, too. Co-pays were terrible, and I ultimately had to stop, allowing my scoliosis to go untreated for years. That, my friend, is with health insurance.
I think long waits to see a specialist (with the exception of Dire Emergency stuff) are pretty standard wherever you are. One of my daughters saw a pediatric endocrinologist for a couple of years and getting an appointment with him was a lot like trying to get an audience with God or something. Six months, minimum, and then you show up and wait for hours for him to breeze through the exam room for 90 seconds.
Yeah, specialists are a long list since there are fewer of them and tend to have a generally large patient field. The only real counteraction would be to produce more specialists… but that’s a discussion not as related to socialist health care vs. privatized.
Far worse for whom? I would imagine it would be preferable to have a long wait time to see a physician than to be unable to see a physician at all.
My brother in law has colon cancer. According to the statistics, he has almost twice as good a chance of surviving it under the US’s “Bad” healthcare system than he does under Europe’s “Good” ones.
Explain.
Cite statistics.
Keep in mind that even in the areas where the US excels, it doesn’t matter unless you have access to health care, which many do not.
Can do, if someone will explain how to put links in my sig.
I did make one mistake. The 5-year survival rate is 62% in the US, and 43% in Europe. Not really “almost twice as good,” so sorry.
Just paste it into the “website” field under your name and email in the reply box.
Linky work?
Linky work. This report lumps all of Europe into one category…I don’t believe all of Europe operates under one health care system (i.e., what is the survival rate difference between England and Estonia), so I don’t think this validates or invalidates your argument.
Okay, better page link. Euro average is 43. France is 38.
However, Norway is 63 and Victoria Aus, is 71.
(This one has US rate at 60.)
I also have another link from BBC news that says US has highest breast and prostate cancer survival rates.
Again slag, I wonder which countries fall under the “Europe” category? Strange that they would show their findings that way.
In any case, the US does excel in cancer research (much of which is government funded oh noes!), so it’s possible that even if the category of ‘Europe’ was broken down by country they would still not compare to US statistics on colon cancer survival. However, it doesn’t matter how good the US is at curing something if you don’t have access to the care needed.
Um, basic math and statistics tell me that if people couldn’t GET the care, then more of them would DIE from it, and the survival rates would be LOWER.
That’s pretty obvious, is it not?
Actually, I believe one of the reasons given is that the US does more early-screening prevention stuff… that other systems may be skimpin on as a cost-saving measure.
Also that our expensive care allows us to have access to more and better diagnostic tools. (We have a nursing program here, and while helping a student do research I came across an article that said that the Pittsburgh metro area has more MRIs than all of Canada.)
Wow, and those are exactly the kinds of things they want to penalize doctors for here under the proposed reform.
Where does the study claim to be counting the untreated? The statistics you linked show survival rate for cancer patients 5 years after diagnosis. If a person dies without having been diagnosed (i.e., died without receiving medical treatment) they would not be included in the study.
That makes little sense, unless we know why treating more people in the socialized medicine country LOWERS their survival rate.
Oh, I almost forgot. I don’t buy the “research” argument either, because the medical community shares the results of such research. If breakthrough treatments happen in the US, they should reach places like France in short order, and France’s survival rate should STILL be higher.
Try to compare the untreated rates, it’s like the argument about how the Patriot act prevents terrorist attacks because “none happened after 2001 when we adopted it.” It’s an assumption about imaginary people.
Or maybe we could say “the coverage is worse, but the care is better.” And maybe that’s a trade-off that nobody’s found a way around yet.
Australia’s success rate at treating colon cancer is about 10% better than the US, and they have socialized medicine…again, I don’t think these statistics validate or invalidate a position on socialized medicine in general.
In a way that’s kind of my point. There’s good and bad to all these systems. That alone is not a reason for changing one to the other.
I suspect that there’s probably been more actual “thinking this through” and talking, argument and counterargument between the two of us than there has been between most of the members of Congress, and that’s what really bothers me about this.
I’ve actually heard a lot of good things about Australia’s system. Also I’ve heard that it’s really different from both the US and “traditional” socialized medicine.
Still, we need a better point-by-point comparisons of the system than anybody (including the WHO) has been willing to give us.
I agree that there are positives and negatives in every system.
I think that a large part of the problem is a political one – there are something like 3-4 healthcare industry lobbyists for every 1 senator….so the debate becomes about winning elections and maintaining a seat in the senate, rather than an honest debate about providing the best healthcare possible.
BTW, guys, those rates in slagg’s linky are all squarely within the average range. I seriously doubt that there is a statistically significant difference between them in the study.
No one is refused live saving treatments in the US, whether they have insurance or not.
Thank you for saying that.
Except that it’s not entirely true. Also, it would be a more effective use of taxpayer dollars to intervene with preventative care before emergent care is required.
Not always possible even with health care insurance.
The idea is not to be doing it with tax dollars in the first place. Where does it stop? Do we have to make the rest of the world perfect too?
You will not be turned away for life saving care, there is a law against it. Do some people die anyways? Yes.
I think the entire thing can be summed up in some famous words.
“A government big enough to give you all your wants is big enough to take them away.”
Justa, we all share in the cost of treating the uninsured already, now, even with private insurance.
SB, you wont hear me saying that the system isn’t totally screwed up. I just don’t think govt should be the one running it. While you or others may think it’s a great idea, what about when some one really messed up gets in power?
Again, there are no proposals on the table for a single-payer option (to my chagrin). Apparently, Americans have felt that the government is good enough to manage the healthcare for our seniors and military for some time now.
Additionally, can you provide an example of a country which offers socialized medicine
Premature add comment!
We don’t live in a dictatorship was my point.
SB, you don’t want me to tell you the story of a military doctor that should face murder charges for what he did to my mother.
I could tell you multiple horror stories that occurred under private insurance as well Justa.
SB, remember that I have said there is something wrong with the current health care system. But govt run healthcare will not be an improvement.
It certainly couldn’t get any worse.
Rando, it certainly could get worse.
Exactly how would the government run health care be any worse than things are now?
Could you please stop preaching? If you care about universal health care so much, stop bitching about it to people on comments of a LOL site and because a politician or a lobbyist. This goes for everyone who’s being obnoxious, not just this one person – I just couldn’t tag them all. The person was just listing one fact in their way of thinking – do you have to contradict that? Let people have their own opinion and stay in your own business. You aren’t convincing people of your opinion, you’re just annoying them.
The World Health Organization defines “Works better” by the following criteria:
- overall health level
- responsiveness
- fairness in financial distribution
- overall goal attainment
- healthcare expenditure per capita in international dollars
- overall health system performance
Canada does not have a monolithic health care system. Each province’s health care plan is managed independently, so wait times in Ontario could be vastly different than wait times in Vancouver.
I know people in Canada and the UK as well, who don’t share the complaints of your friends. In any case, it’s an irrelevant point, since there have been no proposals to switch to a single-payer system in the US. Having a public option (option is a key word) would cover the millions of Americans who don’t currently have access to healthcare.
@Classicist and suicide_blonde
There are good points to be made on both sides of the argument, as you’ve just proven, which is why in my original post I said that to me it’s not a matter of whether it’s a good or a bad plan, but it’s more about government over stepping their bounds and creating laws that they don’t have the constitutional power to create.
I don’t think it’s good right now. I *do* think we have the best health care in the world as long as you can pay for it.
All I’m saying here is that more big government, more government run programs, and more legislation is not the answer in my opinion. Again, as I stated in the post below, our government has a long track record of being inefficient and totally incapable of running any kind of program at all.
“as long as you can pay for it” limits a huge amount of americans. Its not that we have a huge population of lazy people. Its that our economy can only hold so many “professionals” before there are too many. All the factories have outsourced to other companies. All thats left is stuff like retail. How many cancer treatments do you think you can afford on a part time Wal-Mart paycheck?
Well, the World Health Organization ‘thinks’ that France has the best health care in the world. Difference between your thoughts and theirs, is that their thoughts are based on facts.
Facts can be massaged to mean just about anything you want them to mean, add a fancy name to yourself and anyone will believe you. My guess is that agency is biased against the US.
My guess is that you believe what you want to believe regardless of the data.
“My guess is that agency is biased against the US”
Why, noobs? Because there’s the word “world” in their title and they’re not at the beck n call of the U.S.? Because you can’t admit that the U.S. is NOT the best and greatest at every thing (many things, for that matter)?
What??? The USA is the greatest at everything! Suggesting anything else is treasonous and punishable by death! How DARE you suggest that America is less than perfect?! Next you’re going to say that the constitution is flawed! It’s more important and perfect than the bible!!!11!!1!!!
“It’s more important and perfect than the bible!!!11!!1!!!”
Yeah, the Bible….that’s flawed too.
*runs away, laughing maniacally*
NOOOooooo!! ~Head explodes~
WHAT? The bible is flawed? How is that possible?! God Himself wrote every word of that book…even the parts that people wrote. And he prints every single copy Himself so nobody could ever alter it for their own benefit! The bible is perfecter than everything! Except the constitution!
You know what else? I hear this “God” being is responsible for writing books for other religions! You gotta question whose books are right, considering all this work that this “God” did on the side.
What’s this??!?! You’re implying something is more important and perfect than His Word?!?!?
Um, logic for one…
Geee, I love the respect you show. Way to go.
Nooooo!! Nothing is more important than His Word! Now only if the bible was an accurate representation of it…
Respect is earned.
And you know nothing really about me. Shame you can’t show me and other Christians the very respect I would think you would want for yourself.
What you are doing is the equivalent of those religious people who stand and call you names.
I’m only insulting the people who interpret the bible/what have you as the literal word of God and believe it blindly regardless of how illogical their beliefs may have become. And those fools deserve to be insulted. It’s called cognitive dissidence, look it up.
It’s called Freedom and Respect. Look them up.
You mean cognitive dissonance.
bitter troll only believes in troll bible.
very good book
when troll god took rib out of troll adam to create troll steve, it was blood mess and there was much screaming, very good story. troll god chewed on rib a bit then made troll steve.
I always wondered why BT was a cannibal. It goes back to “the beginning”. It all makes sense now. *nods head sagely*
Troll bible:chapter 1 book 1
In the begining, there was darkness and a chaos in the void that was all.
A voice called out” let there be light”
Troll god was awaken by this light, and bithced about the light in his eyes, throwing things at this new guy.
Troll god went back to sleep. and it was good.
SB you seem to suffer from projectionism.
Example?
That big screen projection TV in your living room!
But I only use that to watch porn.
No, facts are facts. People mess around with statistics and data, and lie like crazy to get things to look how they want. There’s also that fact that people will believe what they want to believe no matter what.
Fact: Rando wears a pink lady thong.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that! Mind, I don’t want to see said thong, but…!
No. No, you don’t.
Fact: wicket’s favorite movie is Waiting to Exhale.
I can relate with Savanah, Bernadine, Robin, and Gloria’s relationship struggles. That’s all.
“I didn’t inhale and never tried it again.” –Bill Clinton
Until health care can be produced with little->virtually no cost, however, there are so few that can afford it that it is a liability to the very structure of the civilization’s advancement, which is the purpose of government. Ergo, it should be in the government’s best interest to be involved with health care until it can be effectively and efficiently produced, whilst paving the way for it to become that much more efficient and effective.
I *don’t* think we have the best health care in the world, even if someone can pay for it. I’ve had far too many useless doctors who I had to see because the insurance company refused to give us a list of who in our city carried them. Doctors that immediately misdiagnose my symptoms and persist in their misdiagnosis, that prescribe ineffective and overpriced medicines, that have actually LOST my blood samples so that they needed to bleed me some more, or, if they’re having a good day, tell me everything that I already know but I had to see them to get a note. This is not effective.
Did you have to go to another country to get the kind of care you needed? No country’s health care is perfect, but we have more people coming to the US to get surgerys and live saving treatments than any other country.
I sure hope you’re willing to cite a credible source for that statistic. Preferably a primary source if you could.
That’s the cry of the health care xenophobe, Classicist. “But everyone comes HERE for their health care!” Yeah right. They may come here if they’re rich to see some of our best doctors, but who is gonna come here from Europe to get a routine surgery?
Oh, I know. In fact, every time I look at his post, I can’t help but chuckle, thinking of the problems Henry Kissinger was having concerning his surgeries since he couldn’t LEAVE the US.
I like you. Stick around.
You mean the republican politicians might be lying!? BLASPHEMY!!! Everyone knows that only Democrats lie! /sarcasm
It could be because the US is a leader in medical advancements. That doesn’t mean we have a good health care system.
It’s true. There are some thing in health care that the US is very, very good at. But not nearly enough, and the things that we’re best at usually are not affordable for Joe Average or Joe Poorguy.
I don’t know about Canada and GB, but here in Australia you can get private health cover over and above what you get from the government that allows you to go to a private hospital and get treated quickly. I would be quite surprised if Canada and GB didn’t have the same option available to them as well. Further to that, why would you go to a private clinic for a checkup? That makes no sense.
GB has private health insurance to help get treatment quicker. Same principle with education: if you’re not happy with the state system you’re free to pay for private education if you think it’s worth it. The National Health Service was set up after WWII on the assumption that once everybody got access to free health care they would all become so healthy that they wouldn’t need it so much and the cost would be contained. They didn’t realize that there is an unlimited demand for health care. The difference between public and private health systems seems to be that under a public system the government wastes money on inefficient management and under a private system the providers get rich at the expense of the patients. With the public system you don’t have to worry about your premiums because everybody pays for it out of tax. Of course some pay tax all their lives and never need health care and some never pay a penny and spend all their lives in treatment. Most think that is fair, or at least it’s been going for so long that it doesn’t seem a problem. Take your pick. Mind you, since three times as many people die in the UK from hospital-acquired infections as die on the roads then you owe it to yourself to do all you can to stay out of hospital!
““Works better” is rather a matter of opinion I’d say.”
No. The right likes to pretend that the entire rest of the developed world has totally screwed it up, and that we’re the only ones who have the good health care going, but the truth is, our health care is a joke compared to them. And for the most part, when people are against universal health care, the majority of what I hear are selfish reasons for opposing it, and it irritates me greatly.
I would suspect that those against it have not had friends or family members lose a job and try to pay for Cobra (about $1000 a month for most companies if you have a family). Or they are young enough not to have to have dealt with the vagaries of fighting with their insurance company because they have ‘maxed out for that condition’.
Or know anybody that’s been denied coverage because of a “pre-existing condition”. Especially when it’s not really a pre-existing condition.
Like Acne that turned out to be a heart condition?
No like jaw surgery at 16 for something that was not recurring.
Ok, then why wasn’t that used as the example, instead of a fake one?
Fake? How is my first post “fake”? I didn’t use a “fake” example; I just didn’t provide a specific example. If you want more specifics, here you go:
A friend of mine, at the age of 26, was denied coverage by four for-profit, major insurance coverage because these companies considered her decade-old, one-time oral surgery for a non-recurring condition to be a “pre-existing condition”.
The turned down for Acne was fake. Sorry for not making myself clear.
bitter troll has to agree with justa on some of this, the woman was turned down for a pre-condition, but it wasnt zits like obama said
Yeah. I was only talking about personal experiences with “pre-existing condition” coverage denials. I wasn’t even thinking of “acne-gate”. My friend’s case is one that I personally know is completely true.
I ‘exhausted coverage’ for a condition while in my 20’s, where the insurance only covered 1/2 of the bloodwork and did not cover the standard CT scan…let alone an MRI. I know what the standard tests are for the condition in those years as I had the relevant medical textbooks at home. Thank goodness my parents were both solvent and willing!
Or have had to deal with the stupid hospital keeping my, uh, someone’s daughter an extra night because they won’t release her until she can get her prescriptions…and my, uh, someone’s crappy prescription coverage doesn’t contract with anyone but crappy grocery store pharmacies that close early. Not to mention a hospital bill that will likely take years to pay.
(hugs)
Yeah, it was a bad week. Every single one of us ended up getting sick at some point. My daughter got the worst of it, though.
Having paved roads isn’t a right, either. We should ban those to encourage people to walk more often.
See? I can do it too.
We barely have those in some places, at least without the pot holes.
Yes and the DMV/DOT are a shining example of govt efficiency.
Actually, I have to jump in here and say that I don’t know how they did it, but my local DMV has improved dramatically over the last five years. They’re now far more efficient than most other government offices I have to deal with, and probably rival a lot of private businesses.
The NC system has steadily gotten worse. We got a bit of relief when they changed the laws so that illegal aliens could no longer get licenses here. But then it quickly went back to just as bad.
We have had several court cases about the DOT setting traps for truck drivers, and waking them up in rest areas. Legit inspections are one thing, but waking a man that needs sleep and hassling him for 45 minutes without cause is another.
That a lot of payoffs/kickbacks that were covered up. Which is something else going on here bad. The former speaker of the house was convicted of bribes, and the list is growing. (A lot of Dems going down, but not limited to) And that is one of the reasons the air is ripe with the smell of revolt.
Oh, yeah, I’m not saying it’s perfect anywhere….just the DMV is one of those things everyone (including me until recently!) universally gripes about; I thought it was nice that they’d somehow managed to put a system in place in my city that works!
LOL, the exception to prove the rule.
Our DMV recently stopped mailing notices to warn folks that they have to renew their license or their registration. To save a few bucks by inconveniencing the entire state of drivers. Who has time to keep track of those, on top of everything else happening in life?
Yeah, NC started a thing with inspection stickers. Seems that they can’t mail you telling you yours is dead, but they can mail you and tell you that your license is suspended until you pay a $400 fine. No, they sure didn’t mail me, err, people anything.
At least our inspection stickers have the number of the month written right on them, and they sit in the front window. How often does a person read the fine print on their registration? I never take it out of my wallet except for inspection time! (BF doesn’t cohabitate).
Exactly how is “I was sleeping” a defence against driving an unroadworthy vehicle or breaching drivers’ hours regulations then?
I was just illustrating that his health care payments = food and housing payments argument can be as pointlessly applied to any other “necessary” use of the government. By the way, how often do you go to your local road-builder to make sure you can drive to work?
Tort reform???? You want insurance companies, doctors, and lawyers to make MORE money???? How does that fix the problem???
Well, what’s the justification for that being the eventual outcome of Tort reform?
Tort reform involves reducing the litigation and damages awarded when a malpractice lawsuit is judged. Therefore, eventually reducing the cost of malpractice insurance resulting in lower costs.
I don’t see how insurance companies, doctors or lawyers would make more money that way.
A patient’s right to sue a doctor for malpractice doesn’t need as much reform as the insurance industry does. Tort reform is something that would take away from the patients rights and save doctors and hospitals a ton of money, i agree, but i disagree that Tort reform would solve any problem other than lining people’s pocket books. We just want health care, we don’t need our pockets lined. I just don’t see how it would help, other than some trickle down method of lowering costs. What’s so wrong about a public option? At least it tries to actually solve the major problem.
Ok, fair enough, but to be fair to me, all I said about Tort reform is that it can’t hurt. Maybe I’m wrong about that, but I still stand by my statement that the problem itself should be addressed, not the symptoms.
My problem with a public option is simply that it’s government run. Look at how that’s turned out before. Social Security? Broke. Medicare? Broke. Welfare? Broke. The CRA? Yeah, it was a good idea…until it crashed the economy.
I don’t have confidence in our government to run an effective and efficient public option.
Tort reform will not = reduced costs. Texas has limited the $ amount of malpractice related damages and now has the lowest insurance in the U.S. (and more doctors because of the insurance low insurance costs). The cost of care to consumers has not gone down at all, even with more doctors practicing in the state. So…there’s proof right there that your argument is invalid.
And Lawyers need more money?
Some of them do, yes.
Hookers are expensive.
Wait, what?
What do you think lawyers use all that money on?
From personal experience, I’m going with “paying back my damn student loans” and “putting my kids through college” and “trying to keep my house from falling down around my effing ears.” Oh, and I like to have a beer or go see a movie once in a while, too.
Then you are once again the exception to prove the rule. All the lawyer’s offices I delivered to the last 7 years were people having more than a beer and a movie once and a while. I’m not against anyone working hard and making a great living, but I just haven’t seen many of them driving 10 year old cars. Parking lots were full of Mercedes, Volvo, Lexus and such. The only lawyer I can think of in real debt, was a crooked one in Charlotte, and he was inept.
The partners in my firm do ok, I guess — I mean, they all have nice houses and all that, vacations…I could be making more money at another firm, but I like the area of practice I’m in, and I like the people I work with, for the most part. Part of the issue for me, of course, is that I came into it later in life, with a full plate of responsibilities. After five years of practice, I’m getting closer to the point where I’ll be able to relax a little and quit the night job, but I’m not there yet.
Also, while from an economic standpoint I support the rights of people to sell whatever services they like as long as they aren’t hurting anyone, from a personal standpoint my reaction to the idea of buying sex is “ew”.
ug… used sex….. ug….
@ Victory – don’t know if this exactly pertains to used sex or not, but it did flitter across my brain:
“Procrastination is like masturbation. It feels good while you’re doing it but afterwards you realize you just f*$%!!! yourself.”
Don’t lie. We all know you spend your dough on hookers. And booze.
You say that like it’s a bad thing!
diss is buying hookers and not sharing?
I thought one rented hookers, not bought them. Are you supposed to keep them at the end of the hour?
I guess that’s why I’m not getting my deposit back, huh?
Now you can get your deposit at the end of the “lease” and you’ll have some more money to put towards student loans, kids college, beer, and movies!
Yay!
you dont pay the hooker to come to the motel with you, you pay her to go away afterwards
Come to Amazin’ Rando Mortgage and get yer whore refinanced! Rates in the low 4’s! Hurry before rates go back up!!!
OK Rando, you win.. I loled hard.
True that!
Wow. Do you intend to prove to us every time that you’re almost illiterate? Can you read AND comprehend??
HellonWheels- winner of the 2009 Kindergarden Debate team
At least HOW is a winner, unlike you..
Oooh, Eddie, tell me what I’ve won!!!
HOW, you have one..
*drum roll*
1 year free admission too..
MY LAWN! Yes, ladies and gentleman, that is one entire year of full and complete access. Along with the that, you are also granted unlimited trips to the Beermeister with not one, not two, but 5 different varieties of brew.
Congratulations, HOW!
OMG! OMG! OMG! O-M-G!!!
I would like to thank all of the U.S. Americans and the denizens of PK and Eddie for making this happen. I’m so honored. I am nothing without you or without the Beermeister!
YAY!! *Does cartwheels across Eddie’s lawn*
Well, this post just continues to prove that you’re a moron. How many times did it take you to get through kindergarTen?
I’m guessing he still hasn’t probably.
Learning social rules on the playground keep tripping him up..
Nah, that’s not proof that my argument is invalid. The problem with your example is that it’s localized. If the same thing was done across the nation I believe that health care costs would have to come down. That’s the nature of a free market. If just one company decided to lower premiums due to their lower costs, the rest would have to follow suit or eventually lose profit.
Insurance companies won’t lower premiums even if their costs go through the floor, though. They’ll just make bigger profits.
Basically Villainy’s idea is based on the altruism of companies, which is great if it actually existed beyond the scope of maybe a few people working for the company.
Especially insurance companies. They’re compensating health care providers less and less (decreasing their costs) every year, increasing their premiums more and more, and raking in bigger profits.
Actually, one of my biggest beefs with the health-care reform thing is that they’re trying to do everything in one colossal bill instead of targeting separate legislations towards the individual problems. I could probably get behind legislation to better regulate the health insurance industry, for example.
Do you think the government will be any better? The government will either bankrupt the system, and then try and skimp on the coverage, OR raise our taxes. Sorry I already pay for two health insurances; my own and Medicare/ Medicaid, don’t really feel like paying for a third. (Oh and those that say Medicare would go away, tell me one social government program that has ever gone away)
The grain distribution to the plebs in Ancient Rome. Anything of Ancient Sparta.
Might want to be a bit more specific.
PSST American Government. We’re talking American politics here. Don’t be lame just to be lame.
I *told* you to be more specific. But the basis of my point still stands; all programs fall eventually. Social programs just tend to live longer because they have a different basis of public support, being that after it’s implemented, the people tend to be unwilling to give it up. The times they end are usually:
Time-released action or a single action, ergo with a pre-determined ending.
Funding runs out.
Obsoleted and/or replaced.
Legislation collapse/take-over.
The first is usually one or two big attempts to stimulate things. The second occurs usually because of budget problems or oversights that might not be caused by the social programs. The third is, in theory, the ideal. The fourth is an the final inevitability to all programs.
On top of that, at this moment state social programs are being cut and even discontinued because they cannot afford it with this deficit. A similar interest has been expressed in the White House.
You still haven’t named one.
Also why do I need to be specific since we’re talking about the American government on this LOL. So you were being lame to be lame.
It’s not based on the concept of altruism, it’s based on the proven concepts of a free market, and in fact, it counts on the greed of those companies.
If national tort reform was passed, at least one company would see the opportunity to grab a larger market share by reducing premiums. It’s the same concept that’s being tossed around in the Baucus bill currently. More customers = higher profit, even at a lower cost per customer.
Once the other companies started loosing customers to the one with lower premiums, they’d have to follow suit, or offer more for the same price, or they’d go out of business.
What a simplistic view of economics. I take it you’ve never come across price undercutting agreements, monopoly theory, or market control in your studies.
We don’t allow monopolies in this country. Every heard of a company called Microsoft? How about ATT? This is something that can be regulated by the government.
How naive that you think so. There are competition laws in place, but monopolies themselves can still dodge through and sweep up everything they need to sweep up.
Also: I said monopoly “theory” in an attempt to include oligopolies, monopolistic competition, and cartels. Maybe a bit of an oversight in my part, but, I’m not a professional economist, just well-read.
And to add:
De Beers
OPEC (although a cartel)
Any US corporations? No. But if so, not for long I would wager.
Ticketmaster. How’s that for almost a complete monopoly?
Nice! Well written, Classicist!
n00bs, you’re living in a dream world where corporate America plays by the rules and the government actually enforces the laws for them. Neither actually happens.
So why AREN’T there competition laws in place for insurance companies, and why DON’T the people in charge of reforming healthcare costs want any?
I work for the state. As it stands now, I have a miniscule amount of choice in my health insurance, but not much. If the state decides that Obamacare is cheaper, and switches my health care provider to that, how do I keep the promised “choice?”
@ slaggingham
Hypothetical arguments carry no weight. Your argument is invalid.
We can get really crazy and start talking about the effects of corporate personhood and patent/copyright laws!
@slagginham: There is a section of people who would prefer heavier legislation in insurance companies themselves to break them up a bit, and there’s been some push, but I can’t honestly say how much. I’m not one that argues through that point.
No1askedme: This whole debate is hypothetical. All planning is based upon the hypothetical. Because after the hypothetical becomes the reality, it’s too late.
And frankly, if you can’t answer a SIMPLE hypothetical like that, you have no business supporting a side.
I can’t answer a hypothetical because the situation isn’t real! It’s like saying, “What if candidate so-and-so caused world war three, will you still be proud of voting for him? No? Then why did you?” When you can generate a false situation, arguments are pointless because it can be added to at ones own convenience!
But they could do that without protectionist legislation, and they choose not to…
Free market doesn’t apply when they all get together and collaborate to keep prices high. Gas prices are a good example too. Essentially, if there is something that people NEED, the companies can pretty hold us all hostage and join forces to charge whatever the hell they want, and the government usually turns a blind eye to it. The health insurance companies may be competing, but they’re also working together.
Heh. I remember when we picked this theory all to death on Snopes. Maybe you should check that out, under “fungible commodities.”
The oil producers have a cartel, the oil companies don’t.
If there was more competition they would, we could allow people to buy insurance across state lines, that would add to the amount of choices people have.
These are simplistic ideas that would not really help a much larger problem than so many on the right like to believe exists.
Put all these simplistic ideas together and you have something that will really improve our current system and keep health care and insurance out of the governments hands.
That hardly sounds realistic. And all of these simplistic ideas together are not going to get all Americans covered with usable, affordable health insurance.
Not all Americans need nor want health insurance.
And when the unexpected happens, and these people can’t pay their uninsured bills, the rest of us get to pay for it.
Well, I imagine corpses don’t need health insurance, so I guess there’s truth there.
Ugh, not again… *headdesk headdesk headdesk*
The problem seems to be linking the words ‘health’ and ‘insurance’. Insurance companies exist entirely to make profits, and so their duty to their shareholders is to keep income high and outgoings low. A good year for an insurance company is one where they’ve taken a billion in premiums and paid out a hundred in claims. One advantage of national healthcare systems is the removal of the profit motive. Which isn’t to say that companies don’t make money out of it (drug companies for one) but at least the focus of a national system is health rather than money.
Kudos on a great post.
The same could be said of the left. Just saying….
I mean as opposed to doing away with the current system and letting the government take control.
Nope, true free-markets only lead to abusive monopolies. History has shown this time and again.
Cite please.
We have anti-trust laws in this country because he’s right.
Well, do we have them or don’t we? If we have them then they can regulate the insurance companies too.
We HAVE antitrust laws. There’s just a couple problems there:
1. The insurance companies don’t have a monopoly, because there are several of them, an oligopoly would be a better word for it, but you gotta prove that first. As obvious as it is, you still gotta prove it.
2. The laws aren’t enforced because Washington has wet dreams about big business.
3. I wonder how many in Washington are eating right out of the insurance companies’ hands.
We have anti trust laws because the people don’t step in and make choices of their own. And not all free markets lead to abusive monopolies just because we have anti trust laws.
Look up business practices pre-T. Roosevelt. Back when the anti-trust laws weren’t being enforced and there was little, if any, regulation.
We have regulations fr that in this country. If we need more then we should get more, not just do away with competiton alltogether.
There is competition. They compete for customers. But what they don’t do is compete by lowering prices to beat out the other companies.
Why wouldn’t they? If they did and things worked properly they would get more customers, hence more profits. If they are not doing that then something is not working right, ie, regulations and anti-trust.
“then something is not working right”
BINGO! Now you’ve got it! Something is NOT working right. Let’s assume that a universal health care bill will not pass Congress. That leaves us where we are now. The only possible hope for health care reform would then be massive, ginormous amounts of regulation of health care (not just insurance) to make sure that people aren’t getting robbed blind. At that point, you might as well just go ahead and do government run health care. Too many industries just can’t be trusted on their own without tons of regulation to keep them honest.
“We have regulations fr that in this country”
And we’ve told you those regulations are not enforced as they should be.
Sorry, I’m talking to two or three people here… If we can’t depend on the government to regulate our businesses for our safety, if they are doing it wrong or not doing it at all, then how can we hand over our business to them to do it? How can we trust them with health care? That’s just a little too scary for me.
Kind of a double standard catch 22 style of debate you have. You want government regulation instead of a public option, then someone says” but regulation doesn’t work”, so you say how can we trust a public option to a government that can’t enforce regulation. There is no way to win with you, you just spin it so it says public_option == bad, yet you offer no solution of your own.
And so we come back to my last point in my post. Who was it that broke up the monopolies of old? Real people in DC that actually cared about us.
We need real people in political office, people that will do what’s right for America, not just what’s right for their own pocketbooks.
We had that once before, so don’t tell me it’s just a dream. We can make it happen again. I personally don’t know what it will take, but I believe it could happen, and I believe it would be the best thing for every last person in this country.
This is exactly what we need.
Agreed. Unfortunately such individuals are smart enough to stay out of politics for their own good.
If some people were to stop constantly trying to tear him down, it’s possible we have someone who cares about us and wants what is right for America in the White House currently. I know about 50% of the country disagrees with me, but that’s kind of my point.
Hmmm, what to do…
Explain that Utopia is basically a state of mind and since all minds are different, it will never exist for more than a small handful of people? Nah…
Explain that humans are flawed, self serving creatures that only have bursts of altruism? Nah…
Explain that the stance of values and protection have been the whitewash of a huge percentage of humanity’s greatest villainies? Nah…
Get into the argument about the Nobel Peace Prize when it is left to assumedly better minds to decide this? Nah…
Wax idiotic? SURE!!!
I saw, I came, it was good though I wonder what that has to do with anything.
I would have made a wang joke. That’s just how I roll.
I try not to dilute their power outside of Godwin’s Law breaking.
Besides, you should focus on the wang within not the wang without.
DWN, that was so filthy!
Yes, yes it was.
Wow, he looks bummed out in the picture… I know that’s an old picture, but that poor guy has to have to worst job in the world.
No, I think that’s still “crack whore.”
I wasn’t thinking of crack whore as a job… But you could be right.
Actually, I believe it’s “assistant crack whore.”
Win!
How about “crack whore intern?” Much like an assistant crack whore, but you don’t get paid.
Health care, shelter, food and the right to start a family are rights according according to the european convention on human rights (and in many other places).
You can make other choices. But that’s exactly what they are, choices.
You have made the positive choice that you feel it is a good thing (and compatible with your christian beliefs) that some people will be allowed to suffer from treatable illness, will be allowed to become malnourished or even starve, will lack proper shelter and that some people can be excluded from having a family life.
Dude, you just don’t get it. From a government standpoint, it has to stop somewhere. If it doesn’t we’re *all* going to be poor, malnourished, and lacking proper shelter! I’m not saying that those people should be left out; I *am* saying the the government needs to stay out of it because they’re incompetent.
I’m also saying that a lot of the aforementioned suffering in this country is BECAUSE of the government, not in spite of it.
If the government isn’t gonna do it, then nobody is.
What? Make us suffer? Fine with me!
How did the government cause homelessness? How did the government cause the insurance industry to raise prices higher and higher every year? How did the government cause any of this? It’s easy to shake your finger and say, “government is the cause of all the suffering in this country”, but you come across as over generalizing and as someone who just makes stuff up to prove a point.
The above comment was meant, and I thought it was clear, as an opinion. It’s not fact as you can’t ever know what “would would have been”. That being said, I’ll defend my position anyway.
1) Poor public education
2) Taxing the people to death. More than 50% of the money I make goes to some sort of tax or another.
3) The creation of monetary system where new wealth can only be created through debt. If that wasn’t bad enough, the money to pay back the interest on the debt doesn’t exist. It’s never created, which means, theoretically, every time you save a dollar or pay interest on a debt, you’re causing someone to go bankrupt, be forclosed upon, etc. Don’t believe me? Check out fractional reserve banking. It’s what the federal reserve is based on.
4) The expansion of the CRA imposing penalties on banks that don’t lend enough money in sub-prime mortgages which in turn caused the price of houses to rise faster than inflation which was a huge contributor to the current economic meltdown.
To keep this post from getting really long, I’ll stop there. I think that’s enough to justify my point. I don’t think, and didn’t mean to imply, that it’s *all* the government’s fault. But the blame for quite a bit of it does fall squarely at their feet.
You proved your point. My whole side of the argument is to say that it’s fixable. I don’t have a ingrained doubt, fear, or hatred in our government. I believe it is there to look after us, and attempt to fix some of the bigger problems that face us. I see your point, i just don’t agree with it. There will be successful programs and unsuccessful ones. Our system allows us to fail as well as succeed. Just because you list some government failures, I could just as well find a list of government successes. It’s like an old Bill Hicks quote, “I’ve had good and bad relationships, but that doesn’t mean i’m giving up on pussy” pardon the language, but the point is to keep trying until you get it right. I’m not ready to give up on American legislation yet, regardless of some past failures.
I believe the government is here as an armed barrier between the bourgeoisie upper class and the proletariat masses. The wealthy people are the corporations and the politicians, who control the military and the police. The keep us working at low wages with poor benefits with constant promises of change when all they provide is a carrot at the end of the stick. Anything to keep the population as wage slaves. And when those slaves turn to vice or revolt in any way they are imprisoned or worse. Meanwhile the military wing pursues our bourgeois governments second focus of economic expansion.
I also believe there is only one way to change it.
I think you and I are more alike than it would appear at first glance…
Nice to meet ya!
When I was younger I used to dream up schemes and justifications on how to “fix” what’s wrong with the government. As I got older, wiser, and more realistic, I’ve realized that pipe dreams of a new type of government and/or economy are not feasible or possible in America. I know that makes me part of the problem in your eyes, but having thought this way before, when I hear people speak of some drastic civilizational change I feel that they are either young and don’t understand how impossible it would be or they are just dumb and/or insane. It’s ok to talk about it, but to realistically imply what you are inferring is nothing short of a civil war. Your side being armed with rifles and pistols while the other side would be armed with stealth bombers, tanks, and ballistic missiles. It’s just not realistic. Now maybe if we could populate the moon, we could talk about setting up some new form of government and/or economy there. That seems more realistic to me.
I disbelief in impossibility. Don’t ever get too old to limit yourself or the potential of mankind.
It’s totally fixable. I haven’t lost faith in the system, I’ve lost faith in the people administering the system. All of them, Republicans and Democrats both.
I wish more than anything that I could lead a charge in the next couple of elections to blackball both parties and vote only for independents and such. That might be a catastrophe, I don’t really know.
What I do know is that it would send a message to Washington that we’re tired of you guys not representing us! Now shape up or we’re gonna throw you the hell out!
On second thought, this position is unsustainable. It’s based purely on opinion and can’t be proven because of what I already stated above, you can never know what might have been. The above is what *I* believe, but it’s not really a proper answer to your question.
I withdraw my reply, and the one that you replied to.
no takey backies!
On a completely side note. I think that lols like these are very ineteresting. “Both yall suck” and suddenly we have the boards light up like its Christmas Eve. So much interesting conversation and banter mixed with trollish improv, all with political religious and moral connotations. Its time like this, it makes me proud to be human. (and afriad)
But hear this PKers!
Lets make a deal withourselves that arguements, debates, and fights on lols like this get left here. Noone needs to wake up tomorrow looking for an arguement.
If anything, I think everyone on the site is very good at trying to add funny to (what has recently been) really unfunny pics and captions. And when sad-panda Obama is gone, lets get back to it!
Bickering is humanity’s greatest tool.
On this we agree.
Also, we both suck. In fact, I am reminded of the words of the legendary Dexter Grif (see sig)
“I’d just like everyone to know… that I suck.”
“And that I’m a girl. And I like ribbons in my hair, and I want to kiss all the boys.”
Red Vs. Blue F.T.W.
“Give me a boost!”
“You’re a good person. People say nice things about you.”
“My name is Michael J. Caboose and I hate babies!!!”
Cheers. You and I may disagree on most things, but this is really what it’s all about.
Yes, what everything really boils down to, especially in politics, but in all life too, is that we all suck. Everything and everyone sucks. G’night everybody, and God bless!!!
What do you mean ‘get left here’? What’s the alternative? Nobody’s going to come round your house to continue the argument – I hope that’s not what you’re afraid of!
Hey, you never know who’s stalking you.
Which is why I’m constitutionalist
lol
Dear Boxxy,
Let me know when you’re 20.
Signed,
A Dirty Old Man
ur such a sicko. I bet you live with your mom and your a 65 year old virgin!!! you lay on the couch and have fun with your self every night! YOU’RE SO CREEPY!!!!!
just kiddin
OMG IM FIRST
No, you just fail.
BTW, I just pillaged your village. Fail x2
*charges boxxy $200 for every superfluous comma and puts the money towards the national debt… negating it in the process*
See there, I balanced the budget and all I needed was one long paragraph and an idiot.
I saw the word Beatles in there and was momentarily interested. Then I was like “uh, no.”
You could probably wipe out the debt of the entire third world with the “uuhmms,” “mmmms,” “uhhhs,” and “umms”.
don’t ya mean, like uhhhmm bu-bu-buhhh, sooo ummm noooooo.
I think it’s about time I said it… I have no further energy, or interest left in trying to have political debates on this site. From here on out, I’ll be bringing the funny, be it political humor, situational, or just plain slapstick.
So this means, from here on out, if you take offense to anything I say, then you should step back take a deep breath and consider that maybe the internet isn’t for you. I’m tired of getting tangled up in a debate where neither side can shrink their ego enough to just admit when they make no sense. I’m tired of having or reading debates where a legitimate point is answered with a redirect. I’m tired of arguments that just end up in name calling, and more than anything I’m tired of watching people who would probably get along just fine face to face, become butthurt mortal enemies because someone disagreed with them on the internet. That goes for the left and the right here on this site.
For too long I’ve watched these flame fests and foolishly dived in giving my two to fifteen cents. I’m tired of it all, because if there’s one thing everyone can agree on but no one wants to provide answers to it’s this: Our government system doesn’t work for everyone. Case in point I have yet to see a single person change their mind on this site… EVER.
The left will stay left and the right will stay right, and the rest of us will end up like me, shaking our heads, hoping one day all the animosity will go away.
But I don’t expect it to…
What he said.
Mind you, if the left stayed left and the right stayed right there would never be a change in government… SOME people must be susceptible to persuasion..
Hence why very little has changed in over 200 years besides who associates with which party.
Could be worse. You could be living in North Korea. If the US is a monkey house, at least you get to choose the top monkey.
If I were living in North Korea I’d have a complex about how my dictator and self proclaimed deity is shorter than me…
Ronery…I’m so ronery…so ronery, and sadry arooooooonnnneee
I’m still going to run for president under the platform “The world is a mess and I just want to rule it.”
If you actually get a nomination, I claim dibs on being VP.
Good deal! If everyone’s sh*tting a brick over Obama’s administration… wait until they see MY Cabinet and Panel O Czars!
Prez = An evil overlord who takes pleasure in bludgeoning old women
VP = A big flipping Dragon
Secratary of State = Jane, because well, who else would I want to have long “discussions” with every night about the “state of the union”
White House Spokesman = Rando because every white house needs their spokesman to silence dissent with STFUGTFOESADITOP.
Secretary of Defense = Charlie, because well, it’s what he DOES.
Secretary of Homeland Security = Eddie because “Get off my lawn” is all inclusive enough.
Secretary of Labor = Froo… topical *wink*
Secretary of Health and Human Services = BT, because everyone needs a troll to tell them how to live healthily and “How to Serve Human”.
Secretary of Agriculture = Charro, because she’s got a green thumb! Seriously!
And the other members of my cabinet are soon to follow….. I’ve got my eyes on you SB, VG, Diss, VNV, and Justa..
I would be honoured to serve as a Czar for you my good sir. Will the interview be the same as the one I engaged in with DWN when I was confirmed as VP for his reign?
That depends on what my secretary of state says… She does after all have first dibs at the space under the oval desk.
I’m afraid the White House cannot comment on that. *curls into a ball and cries*
Don’t cry Rando.
I can cry Rando if I want to. It’s my name. “Oh Rando, oh Rando.” Actually, that just sounds kinda creepy.
Or you have interesting… “self-pleasing habits”
I’ve always been my own biggest fan. I can’t really explain why I say “Rando” and not my real name, though. Perhaps I’m taking this PK thing too seriously.
Yes and we will both be there so bring lip chap. Lynn will probably be there so don’t get your tongue tired. And…
Hmmm, just make sure to clear your schedule, you have a lot (of people) to do.
I would be honoured to service all three of you. Repeatedly. If Secretary of State so approved the order.. If not, I’ll be happy to service you and Lynn regardless.
Awesome, saves me the trouble of using duct tape and a drive by kidnapping. Instead we can just bring rope and ginger.
Well you know the duct tape and kidnapping worked wonders on the Secretary of State… Stockholm’s syndrome’s a helluva pick up “line”.
Point taken though if she is willing, I might as well focus on the play as opposed to the pick up. Means I can focus on how much fun she is going to have/give with/to us.
Indeed… why do I have the feeling that annals of my presidency… will have pages stuck together?
Because some of it will read like the Songs of Solomon…
Epic… I’ve always wanted a prose ballad in my honor.
Your honor, my honor, on her, in her. Plenty of prose to go over.
I’m ok with either method, personally.
Good because I was going to do it anyway. It wasn’t like you are going to get a word in besides the usual moans and coos anyway. Let alone that Lynn is a switch who hasn’t had a sub to do stuff to.
You get to be her early birthday present.
Something that I find funny Charro, I misclicked and hit your name in the “recent posts” section to the right… My work’s web-blocker came back with “This website has been blocked for the following reasons: Tasteless/offensive”
And the first thing I thought was “Obviously you’ve never spent the night with her…”
Well played, sire.
The press wants to know if we’ll be releasing the confirmation proceedings of Madam Secretary charro to the public. I told them it would cost $79.95 per minute and only via the White House website. Is that all right?
Come now, Rando… We are for the people. Make it 69.99 instead.
*flips down his lab glasses and takes a strand of Charro’s hair*
I’ll get to the cloning lab, and you can tell the public for extra $690 they can have a personal dramatization of the confirmation proceedings anytime they want… National Deficit…. I LAUGH AT YOU!
charro clones? So when will we be able to release hot clone on clone footage?
Ooooh, see… His Cruelty is already on top of the biggest issue.
I am at your services, my overlords.
I think I’ll also be converting the White House into my Fortress of Doom, and suspending term limits… for, obvious reasons.
Fair enough, I am dragon enough to admit I didn’t think of that so you deserve it after my reign is up.
Now all I need is some radical amphibious idiot senator to propose giving me emergency powers…
I could always wear a disguise and fly around nuking cities…
Please disguise yourself as a giant birthday cake in the shape of Ted Nugent f*cking a chicken…. That would make my day.
That… Works very well, actually. I’ll be a fudge sundae in the shape of Al Bundy taking a stick to Peg afterward.
War on Sentient Tasteless Confections!!!
We must destroy these vile incarnations of everything our nation hates, because if we don’t eat the cupcake…. the Baked goods win!
Indeed, Think of our Waistline. MY GOD WHY WON’T SOMEBODY THINK OF OUR WAISTLINE?!
By the way, DWN, I’m really glad I could somehow trick you into sticking around for a while tonight. Missed ya buddy, never before have I ever considered a minion an equal… until now…
A clever scheme indeed, sire. It felt good to stick around.
Feel free to do it more often, I doubt anyone would complain
Never know, another fluke might happen and I find myself here for an extended period of time. XD
*puts away his box of flukes*
Yes…. might happen…
>_>
<_<
I smell a scheme.
No actually that’s my new deodorant I’m marketing, I call it, “Ode du Overlórd” Captivating isn’t it? I think the slogan will be “You’ll smell so good, she’ll think you’re up to something.”
I got this new deodorant today. The instructions said “remove cap and push up bottom.” I can barely walk, but whenever I fart, the room smells awesome!
That sounded disturbing close to a Jar Jar reference. One more line like that and I’ll start impeachment proceedings.
I have no qualms with eating you and making you an intestinal movement on somebody’s lawn…
/attack dog mode
My apologies. I should have known our great leader would never resort to tasteless Jar Jar jokes. Knee jerk reaction, that’s all.
Fair enough, now go back to counting all our bribes from the porn industry. They always try to screw us.
Dammit, Jim, I’m a press secretary, not an accountant!
Your bribe is in there too…
Who’s my Secretary of the Treasury?!
*pushes a button on his PA*
Get me the sneakiest damn tax evader you can find… STAT!
you call for bitter troll?
Trolls pay taxes?
*slams the button on his PA again*
SOMEONE GET ME “The One” IN HERE NOW!
I need a surplus to fund my “War on Kittens”!
My bribe is…in…there…GIMME DA MONIES!!!!!
It could have been, but most of the Gungans have been rounded up into our “Cuisine Camps”…. Have you have Gungan legs before? They’re to DIE for! Mwuah… Mwuahahahah… Muwhahahahahahahahah!
Currently spinning Gungan death camps into administration propaganda, sir. I have a feeling this is gonna be a pretty easy one.
You’re talking about me, aren’t you! You slimeball mother fvcker!!!!1!!1!!!
(just kidding, bro)
*slimes all over Rando*
You just got BALLED!!! SLIMEBALLED!!
I find your diatribe offensive and I think Dr. Pepper will ALWAYS be better than Coke. Just try and dissuade me.
I’m real happy for you, and Imma let you finish, but Pepsi is the greatest soft drink of all time. OF ALL TIME!!!!11!1
Surge
Surge? Oh SSSSUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
RGE!!!!!!!!1!!1!!48!!9!6!!489!!67!!eleventyeleven!!!%@&!!
I find your offensive a diatribe, and I think brownies should ALWAYS have nuts in them. So there!
Listen VG, I love you and all, but I can’t get behind putting nuts in brownies… they’re little girls for god’s sake!
Don’t worry, Your Cruelty, I’ll handle the issue with the nuts and little girls.
That’s a good thing, because since Jane’s been so worked up lately I had to help relieve some stre-*twitches*ss.
Of course, sire. Just tend to your health and I will attend to this matter personally.
Watch out for the doting mother’s though… I’m sure they can be quite pesky!
And watch out for superfluous apostrophes… they even got me…
Of course, the mothers won’t be a problem though. I already have their purpose planned out… Bwahahahahahaahaaa….
I mean. Yes, I have it under control.
OMG, my daughter’s a daisy girl scout and this is gonna give me nightmares.
Keep her away from the Dragons.. And the White House of Doom.
Gotcha. No bringing kids to work. Well, that should be a given actually.
I won’t dissuade you wicket, because you are correct. Dr. Pepper went through 7 years of Soda Medical school to get where he is today. Coke however just said “Well… what I had cocaine?”
“Well… what if I had*”
I think I’m the only one who got the joke. That’s NOT a good thing.
Wanna explain it to the rest of us?
This is very obviously a parody of stupid teenagers. Maybe it’s not very well done, but commenters should not pour hate on her for being a stupid teen, when she is obviously not.
If there’s some kind of irony i’m missing, i’d really like to know as well.
Kinda?
Nobel Peace prize goes to you for understatement of the year.
not the noble understatement of the year prize?
they got a few noble prizes
I got the Noble “Best BLT” Prize this year. It’s quite an honor.
I also got the Nobel BLT Prize. *facepalm* It was a very noble prize indeed.
Holy F*ck!! My brain just seized up watching that..
You actually watched more than 30 seconds of that?
I kept trying to hit stop, but it was like a train wreck in slow motion. There was nothing else I could do but to look on in horror.
… I managed to stop it but it took all of my divine draconic might. I still might need a surgeon to stop the pressure build up.
Man, I needed some of that.. I think I’m going to stutter now for like, ummmm-uh y-y-y-yeah, ages, ya know?
I got through 13 seconds. That was more than enough.
I’m not gonna watch it tonight. I don’t want anybody I know seeing me watching whatever the hell that is.
I’m assuming that since she has viewers and has made more than one of those that someone actually enjoys that. Idiocracy is no longer a movie.
Have we considered the possibility that it’s an incisive and subversive self-parody of her generation? Interesting use of stream-of-consciousness combined with the stylized use of high contrast — the black background, clothing, hair deemphasizes everything other than the speaker’s face; with the heavy eyeliner, which is almost reminiscent of kabuki.
She’s either a babbling idiot or fvcking brilliant, and I can’t decide which. Almost a 21st century version of the 18th chapter of Joyce’s Ulysses.
“Have we considered the possibility that it’s an incisive and subversive self-parody of her generation?”
I’ve considered that and went with “babbling idiot” as my final answer.
Now you’re just trying to recoup the shame you earned because you watched all of it.
Look it up on ED too. HORRIBLE stuff
@DWN – Oh god, yes. I’ll never live this down. Or get the time back.
*places face in hands and weeps*
I lived through six years of that with certain Scottish girls… I’m immune
my pc lasted 10 seconds then seized up, but that was enough for me – please, somebody pass the brain bleach this way
*sob* i swear i just got, uhhmm, like, um ten sumthingks dummer watching that.
if you’re going to crap on about your life mundanities at least make it slightly interesting and witty… like nat (linky) you reckon these guys would have seen community channel eds?
lol, i didn’t realise you said the same thing. i did get dumber from watching that apparently.. ooph
no harm in repetition to enforce the message wallFly… the less boxxys or people watching boxxys out there the better
Somebody needs to make sure I don’t bite off my tongue when I-
*seizes violently*
i think i actually got dumber having watched that.
I think that just took a few years off my life…
Is she wearing a Mooninite shirt?
Aqua Teen Hunger Force FTW!
And with the volume turned off…. she’s kinda hot.
Stop whining. You could have Gordon Brown.
True that.
Um, they kinda always both sucked….this is not news because the president’s black all of the sudden.
All of a sudden? He’s been black his whole life!
He’s black?! Holy Sh*t! I just thought he was tanned! I voted for a black guy?! Don’t tell my grandpa!
*kidding incase there was confusion*
I’m just saddened that my wife’s extremely racist grandfather didn’t live to see the day a black man was elected president. If nothing else would’ve killed him, that would’ve.
When it comes to my grandparents, whatever doesn’t kill you just makes you more racist.
They refuse to use the pepper shaker because it’s black. Only salt can be allowed on the dinner table!!
obama black? bitter troll thought he was hawiian
That’s because you are a RACIST! You’re racist against Hawaii just because they’re another country!!!
NOOO he’s been half black his whole life.
I like where you are going with this. I might be able to let my granpa know… as long as I leave off the half black part… I should be ok.
“Hey Granpa guess what I voted for a half white, Half bla-…. blanket… yes… he’s part quilt!”
He IS Muslin after all….
only half breed muslin- sagenod-
No, he’s just a bit sooty from the cross burnin’. See, it’s coming off….
Something tells me Keithybabes knows where the white women are at.
-pops in wearing a bell hop costume- candy gram for maxwell, candy gram for maxwell..
God darnit, bitter, you use your tongue prettier than a twenty dollar whore.
the sherriff is a ni-BONG- what he say?
he said the sherriff is near..
oh ok…
*grabs Obama by the shoulder and starts to walk with him*
Are you insane? Can’t you see that man is a Ni-
*looks at Obama smiles and grabs Harry Reid by the shoulder*
Are you insane? Can’t you see that man is a Ni?!
-stands up above the crowd and smiles down to everyone, reaches towards his bitter belt- excuse me while i wipe this out
Ah yes… still one of the best lines EVAR!
THE WHITE, GODFEARING CITIZENS OF ROCK RIDGE wish to express our extreme displeasure with your choice of president. Please remove him immediately! The fact that you have sent him here just goes to prove that you are the leading asshole in the state!
Morning Ma’am!
Up yours Ni.
Thank you for saving our town, here’s an apple pie.
Thank you Ma’am.
No being of good standing you won’t let anyone know about this.
They have both sucked for decades. It’s only you Party loyalist FILTH who have not been able to recognize it. Ideology needs to be bred out of the human race. It’s a mental illness.
Should we wash away hopes and dreams too.
Should we wash that man right out of our hair?
Wash away my troubles, wash away my pain
With the rain in Shambala….
Just as long as it’s wash and not warsh. Remember, everyone, there’s no “r” in “wash.” This coming to you from the “I Live In Fvcking Jefferson County, Missouri” Foundation.
And the word “fire” has no a in it… I’ve been living in the south for over 25 years and I still dont know what a “fahr” is.
Clearly it means something that is very fahr away. Like Iceland.
No more like fahr away as in NYC.
Here, warsh yur clothes with a Jamaican accent.
psst bitter troll has candy under his bridge
I thought that was you grundle, not your bridge.
they have always sucked, remember that.
Libertarians FTW!