First Bush was Hitler, now Obama is Hitler.
First Bush was Hitler, now Obama is Hitler.
Let’s clear something up right now. All U.S. Presidents are gonna have some bad ideas, regardless of which political party they’re in, but until they decided to kill 6,000,000+ people for having “inferior genes” let’s hold off on the name calling.
(Adolf Hitler)
Picture by: dunno source. Caption by: dunno source via Advanced Lol Builder
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Good call!
Amen!
Isn’t 6,000,000 like, 7 years of abortions in America?
Oh good, the new troll we ordered is here. I’m the only one still up, so I guess I’d better sign for it. Just put it down in the corner over there, that’s fine.
Does 6,000,000 like’s equal 3,000,000 for sure’s or ya know’s? Is a for sure worth .5 like’s or is it a double like? what happen’s if you use like, ya know? Stop me please, the school year just started and even my new crop of high school freshmen aren’t this dumb.
You’re a teacher?
What class?
Can I come to your school? I promise to learn the course and do well on all the tests, even if I do miss some of the repetitive homework.
Homework… we don’t need no stinkin’ homework!
Or Badges. We don’t need no stinking badges either.
What kind of a teacher uses apostrophes for plural nouns? =-O
a math teacher?
A sarcastic one.
Its a contraction of stinking. See the ‘g’ was taken away. Its proper grammar. I’m guessing English or History.
Uh… maybe the smart one? ‘Like’ is not a noun, neither is ‘know’. Besides which, when you are saying x number of a SINGULAR word, you would not say ‘3,000,000 likes’ because that would imply three million of the word ‘likes’, rather than three million ‘like’s!!! I’m fourteen and I’ve known that since third grade… It scares me how stupid my peers and several adults I know can be…
Nice try, but in this case what is being engaged in is referred to in linguistics as ‘nouning’ where a verb that is not normally considered a noun is used as one and is treated as one. A good example is in baseball where you score runs. Run is distinctly not a noun but has been ‘nouned’ in order to be used the way we do. In this case, like is being used as a noun and counted and therefore standard pluralizing would be correct and would follow standard English pluralization rules.
You curiously aknowledge that fact by saying 3,000,000 likes would implu three million of the word likes, which is precisely what charlie foxtrot was suggesting. The result is something we call humor which appears to have been lost on you.
Aremis
Ahem… Source: Gilbert, Martin. Atlas of the Holocaust, 1988, pp. 242-244.
The number of victims depends on which definition of “the Holocaust” is used. Donald Niewyk and Francis Nicosia write in The Columbia Guide to the Holocaust that the term is commonly defined as the mass murder, and attempt to wipe out, European Jewry, which would bring the total number of victims to just under six million — around 78 percent of the 7.3 million Jews in occupied Europe at the time.
So just under 6 million. He missed the “Just under” part. Sry bout that.
You misspelled “Jewellery”.
And you misspelled “jewelry”.
That, or maybe they’re British…
Actually, I believe he did mean Jewry, it’s a relatively outdated term for the Jewish people as a group around the world.
understanding wit fail.
wit fail.
Based on your constant misuse of apostrophes in order to pluralize something, a lesson most learned well before high school, I’m going to pray you’re not an English teacher.
I hope you don’t teach English.
””””””””””””
Good one, rando
Eastman, he came out of the East, to do battle with the Amazing Rando!!!
OMG Andy, now I must go watch MST3K: the Movie!
Heh, that Rando stuff kills me. I’m sorry but RANDO will be doing all the magic in this movie!
“Those handles are magnetic.”
And if your body was made of metal that would mean something.
So you’ve covered most of Bush’s term in office…
Yeah, I wonder how many were during Reagan’s term as well. All the MURDER going down during the Republicans’ reign.
Hate to tell you but WW 1 was fought by Woodrow Wilson, a progressive Democrat. WW 2 was fought by Franklin Roosevelt THE New Deal democrat. Vietnam was started by Kennedy and escalated by Lyndon Johnson another Democrat.
I think you’re confused.
I know, where on earth did that come from?
I hate to tell you but Ricky Martin sang Livin La Viva Loca.
I love non-sequiturs.
I mean that MUST be what you were doing since what you said had no relevance to the discussion. Yes, Woodrow Wilson and FDR both fought AGAINST Nazi’s, what is your point? Why is this relevant? You seem to a be arguing in favor of Democrats and thus Obama. But then you throw in Vietnam which has nothing to do with Nazi’s but somewhat to do with Communism, the other “great evil” Republicans have been throwing around lately.
So obviously in order to respond to your comment appropriately I am forced to resort to the Chewbacca defense.
Ladies and Gentlemen of this SUPPOSED website, I have one final thing I want you to consider. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!
Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this post? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this post! It does not make sense!
Look at me. I’m a smart guy, a leader of my community, and I’m talkin’ about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit!
Woodrow Wilson fought against Nazis? What history books are you reading? The Nazi Party wasn’t even created until almost a decade AFTER WWI. Before you try to sound smart, read something.
Fighting a war against Germans does NOT equal fighting a war against Nazis.
Thank you, Brad. As I was reading this I was thinking it, and then I read your response. Well done. Here’s a tip for people who want to post “facts” on the internet. You are on the internet. Do a little research to make sure that you’re claims have some actual truth to them. Thanks! Have a nice day. Oh, and by the way…Everyone always quotes that 6 million people were killed in the Death Camps, but the total was actually over 11 million. It is estimated that there were 6 million Jews killed, but there were also millions of Soviets, homosexuals, Jehovah’s witnesses, and other minorities that were killed as well.
Whoops! Should be your where I wrote “you’re”
Thanks, Shaun! ’s pretty refreshing to think that some of youse guys can re-read and acknowledge an “oops!” moment.
Willird
Nobody seems to rememeber the 60 million killed in the soviet union -way before the Führer appeared in the political map- and which went on up to Stalin’s death in the 50s. And instead of libeartig the russians of someone at least 10 times meaner than Hitler (60,000,000 vs 6,000,000 or 11,000,000) Stalin was rewarded with the support from the allies.
Wow, I think you’re missing all the bits in between where Stalin threw his support in favour of the Allies instead of the Axis.. True it was self interest for him, but it was self-interest for us to have them on our side.. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
If Hitler had decided he wanted to join the Allies… Things would have been different.
Alright… you’re also forgetting the numerous attempts Himmler and Hess made to negociate with the allies. “The enemy of my enemy is my friend” Whad did the germans do to the US? What f*** Axis? Mussolini was just a burden for Hitler, besides japanese and german NEVER fought together. What support are you talking about? Roosevelt started secretly sendeing war material to the soviet union since 1940 or so.
My reading comprehension might be off today, so I apologize if that’s the case, but did I miss the part where you had a point?
I think that I said words to that effect up above, but don’t confuse us with facts, please.
Facts, shmacts.
Wait; does this mean Rickey Martin was Hitler? I’m so confused…
Bravo. Thank you for reminding the public that the death camps claimed the lives of others beside Jews. Three members of my grandfather’s family were confined in work camps for insidious slander (criticizing the Regime) They were arrested as being “Anti Community Minded. In 1934 70,000 German citizens were arrested and charged with such.
Only the Jews count. If you don’t believe me, look at their memorials.
Still sound a little bias… so what if Chewbaka like to be around small people? Get over it people… if animal can do it, we can too.
mic?
Ummmm… WW1 had Germany on one side, true. But it was a monarchy at the time and… ummm… the German National Worker’s (Nazi) Party was nowhere near being in control.
Just… ummm… pointing that out.
I hate to tell you but Ricky Martin sang “Living La VIDA Loca.”
If I am not mistaken we bailed out the French in 1954 under the Eisenhower administration and I am sure he was not a Democrat.
Well, in the case of World War Two, F.D.R was the president, but it was Eisenhower who was one of the major commanders. A five star general who organized D-Day. He was president 15 years later. And yeah, a republican. Also, in the recent past, The last two wars this country has fought, the gulf war and the war on terror, were started both by republican presidents. Both started by bushes two. So there you go.
Also, I love the picture. For the Win
You are aware that both Wilson and Roosevelt resisted for some time entering either of those wars in the face of very strong Republican criticism, right? Don’t confuse a coincidence in historical timing with democratic warmongering. In both cases, the Republicans were the hawks.
I’ll grant you Vietnam, however. As a democrat, I’m no happier about that than I am about the number of democrats who voted to enter the recent Iraq War. In that case, while Eisenhower cautiously commited 900 military advisors to train the South Vietnamese military, it was Kennedy who failed to heed Eisenhower’s warnings of impending disaster should we fully engage.
Aremis
Aremis
Actually, abortions were at their highest during the Reagan Revolution (Reagan and Bush Sr.). http://www.nrlc.org/ABORTION/facts/abortionstats.html
By the way, those are NRLC’s numbers. They may be counting the morning after pill for all I know.
You people are sofa king stupid. Abortion is a Democratic agenda not Republican. And to finish the whole Hitler thought, it was more like 16,000,000. Much as they don’t want you to think about it there were 1.6 times as many blacks and poles and gypsies and such “undesirables” murdered in the camps as there were jews. Use this box for more than showing the rest of us your own ignorance.
Actually, abortion isn’t an agenda, the freedom involved is a Democratic agenda.
And I’m pretty sure that the Dems work to make it a lot easier to raise an unexpected child. Republican’s only care about it for 9 months. After that anything such as healthcare, education, or job training that may make it possible for the family to raise the child to be a productive citizen is labeled as socialism.
Bravo.
Also, if “the truth” had any form of reading comprehension he would know that we weren’t saying that abortion was a Republican issue, merely that just as many abortions occur when there has been a Republican in office as when there was a Democrat.
There seems to be rather high number of drive-by trolls who don’t seem to get what we’re talking about. If you can’t follow the conversation, people, keep your pie hole closed.
but how we suppost to get pie in??
We could inject the pie intravenously.
I volunteer!!
*rolls up sleeve*
Wait, do I get to choose the flavor? I like pumpkin a lot and lemon meringue, and apple, and cheery, kinda so-so on blueberry and strawberry rhubarb, I can only take key lime in very small slices…..
OMG YOU’RE A SoCIALIST AREN’T YOU?!
Well said.I applaud thee.
Oh PLEEEEEASE, thank you Dems for the world of single parented children, I really appreciate everything you have done to help create and entire class of entitlement citizens. THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!
Republicans care. They care that we are creating a world of people with their hand out. I can speak to this as I am one of those single parents who is not getting aid from my government. I make less than the current poverty level. I am raising a sucessful, productive human being that understands that if he wants better in life he will have to WORK for it, in school and out. He has respect for his elders, he understands giving to his community, and understands that his life will be an amalgom of the choices he makes. There isn’t and cannot be, someone always there to pick up the pieces. God, and the world, can forgive you your sins, but they cannot protect you from the consequences of your actions. There is NO level playing field in life. Suck it up, pull up your big girl panties (ruffles in the back) and do the best that you can.
Amalgam… And she’s right. You only care about it until it’s born. After that, helping it is a “hand out”, by “evil Socialists”, for “shiftless losers gaming the system”.
Well, sure it’s a handout… (free=handout?)
Free stuff is good, as long as the giver gives voluntarily.
The problem is the system is making charity mandatory. (that’s socialism, btw…)
HOLY SHIT ARE YOU SERIOUS?!
Socialism doesn’t make “charity” “mandatory” you moron. People who are selfish and don’t want to help others call it “charity”.
And “forced charity” isn’t Socialism, read a book for fukc’s sake.
ha, caring is not giving to the point of creating a wholy unproductive entitled human being. Let’s be honest, the current government run system is a joke. Generational wellfare families, shiftless, useless monsters created by the system that hemmed them in with their “caring” gimme programs. You, nor I have any right to believe that the “fine” life is something we are entitled to. I don’t really care that you didn’t get the sneakers you wanted when you were growing up. Go out, get a job and earn your own money for sneakers. There is pride in a well cleaned toilet, there is pride in working for a days pay. PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY is a foreign concept to the liberal left and I for one am sick to death of the whole give em a break, they’ve had a hard life mentality!
Personal Responsibility is a foreign concept to the liberal left? Really? THAT’S your move? I myself am a proud Dem, but growing up on a farm, one learns about as much personal responsibility as there is to learn. If you don’t go out and spray/prune/mow/harvest on time, you don’t eat. Never mind if nature throws a curve ball in the form of a hail storm.
When it was time to leave, getting to college did indeed mean I needed to do well in school so I could score some federal financial aid, which apparently is the part of socialism that is just fine? Not to mention my family needed to rely on a federal program for school lunches, too. Is this the part where I have no personal responsibility? Don’t even worry about going home and working all day, that doesn’t count, because I have no personal responsibility. Take your high-and-mighty act and shove it. Having the good sense to take advantage of those resources available to me does not make me devoid responsibility.
Ha, whoops! “devoid OF responsibility. “
Yes wallow in the pride of your hard days work however, just don’t even think about joining a union to help get you better benefits, health insurance or a pension. Whatever you do, do not get hurt while cleaning said toliet….suck it up and take some personal responsibility shiftless monster.
woops, amalgam
I hope that you are not even remotely suggesting that only democrats are single parents.
One does not become King of the Sofas by being stupid.
Its funny how Conservatives fight so hard to get a fetus into the world, reguardless of how that fetus was concieved. But once that child is brought into the world, these same people will not help to provide for the unwed mother, or crack addict mother, or abused mother, or simply the underage mother who can’t afford to care for a child. Nor do thay want to help provide health care for the child or mother. Once that child is in the world, most conservatives don’t care what happens to the child. Abortion is much more a consrvative “issue” than a liberal “issue”…..used only to polerize themselves from liberals.
insane comparison. The only way to compare is by percentages, What percentage of Jews/Poles/homosexuals etc were killed by the nazis. It is pretty obvious by looking at this that the Jews were targeted more than any other group (except maybe gypsies in some areas). Poles were killed but there was no plan to annihilate all of them, homosexuals were often ignored and could also hide their identity more easily and there were not very many blacks in Europe at the time. I don’t think there was a ‘wansee conference’ for any other group apart from the Jews (though I am not sure, I’ll be honest) and just a glance at Hitler’s rants and writings shows he was more obsessed with the Jews than any other group.
did obama tell people they should get abortions?
no.
Does he advocate the killing of baby’s?
no.
I am pro-life but I’m also a realist it’s the pregnant woman’s fault she got the abortion, not Obama’s.
and it’s not like bush made abortion illegal
obama supported partial birth abortions so how can you say he doesn’t advocate the killing of babies? obama says one thing but his actions show the real person.
I’d like to take this opportunity to introduce my new persona. *twirls around* How does it look?
-cheers-
yay! you look very nice!
Thanks bitter! That’s why you’re my favorite troll!
good, bitter troll was worried cause when you sleep, bitter troll rubs your face with his ballsak
Do NOT make me tell charro that you’re cheating on her!
-pouts and kicks dirt- ok…bitter troll sorry..will stop tea bagging you in yoru sleep
But I plan to keep teabagging bitter troll in his sleep. Just wanted to make that clear.
-sleeps with mouth open-
zzzzzzz
-Stuffs Eric’s mouth full of actual teabags as he teabags bitter troll-
Ugh, nasty, I HATE TEA! Why would you do something so disgusting??
Oh…right.
WHAT’S GOING ON HERE?!
I didn’t want to be the one to tell you, but…well, your troll has some homosexual fixation with me. I’m sorry charro. *sigh*
*has a sad*
-wakes up and looks around- who wha where nipples? charro why so sad? bitter troll was sleeping…what lil hairs in my mitter mouth
bitter, dear, you have homo-erotic relations with Ivan in your sleep apparently.
Not too shabby, Ivan!
Atheists must have a better vision-care plan than chefs who work for Bitter Troll. Help me out with what’s written on your sign there.
It says “The guy behind me can’t see”. It goes with the “Annoying” name I used to have.
I’m pro-choice myself and I have so far not contributed to a single abortion.
And I wouldn’t ever be anti-choice in the “land of the free home of the brave”.
Isn’t being pro-mother’s choice being anti-baby’s choice?
Either way you cut it you’re still a hypocrite and you condone murder.
There is a major difference between allowing a medical procedure to be preformed and ordering genocide.
No U.S. President has ordered anyone to get abortions. Legislation only allows it, it does not mandate it. Everyone has the choice to give birth or abort. Stop blaming government officials for the choices of private citizens.
We are giving the choice, and that in itself is awesome.
*golfclaps*
Bravo!
Heck with the golfclap…three loud hardy cheers!!! Bravo !!! And a round of applause to the original pic!! Yeah!!
Giving the choice of whether or not to kill a living creature! Yaaay to have the ability to legally murder your own offspring! Hell yes!
I’m sure Jefferson was exaggerating that part about unalienable rights and stuff…what were those again? Let’s see, the right to liberty, the pursuit of happiness…what was that third one? I forget! Oh, well. It’s probably not important anyway, we can just forget about it!
While we’re at it, can we be given more choices and freedoms to live in the happytastic world where everyone can do whatever the hell they want? ‘Cause I’m totally up for having the choice to murder someone who’s able to defend him or herself and speak for him or herself and stuff; you know, outside of his or her mother’s womb.
And then I’m going to dance naked in the streets yelling all sorts of creative and politically incorrect profanities while firing machine guns, because being a functioning member of a civilized society doesn’t matter because my personal freedom is more important than the freedom (and eyesight) of everyone else!
Whooo, free tickets to the handbasket express!
(I’m normally not this rude or insane, but I’ve been listening to too many of these debates. And it’s like 1:30 AM at the time of this posting so IIIiiii’m a tad on the exhausted into a state somewhat like drunkenness sort of state. Sorry if I offended anyone too badly, I guess. Not sorry I said it, just sorry that I offended you. I’m just sick and tired of people arguing one side or the other to death and acting like there’s a morally correct way to handle these things. There isn’t. The end doesn’t justify the friggin’ means and the world is full of evil. You just got to try keep trying to do good, try to do what you believe is right at every turn. And remember that there will always be a situation that defies judgment or nice, clean cut labels. Life ain’t nice and clean cut and neither are moral debates. That’s my say. ‘Night, all you crazy, crazy liberals, my fellows of the more conservative thinkin’, and you poor oft overlooked independents/undecided/neutrals!)
Not offended. Just confused. The thread’s dead, dude. I only even know you posted because I forgot to remove the email alert. As for the debate at hand, as I’m sure you are aware, it all comes down to when you believe personhood begins. And given that science can’t agree on that issue I’d say we can put this all under your ‘life ain’t nice and clean cut’ clause and leave it at that. I’m generally liberal, but frankly agnostic on this subject for the moment. But I do find it funny that while there are numerous debates out there on this very topic, you chose to raise the dead with this thread to raise heck over it.
So in all the late term abortions that happen the pregnant womans life is in danger and without it she would die? Quite generalizing you idiot.
Sick, sick, sick. Anon. Just another idiot.
No, but some people also understand that many women are going to get back room coat-hanger abortions if they can’t get it in a safe environment.
People who fail to understand this are the same idiots that think if they ban sex education (except for abstinence) in schools, that teenagers will stop having sex.
I’ll take that one on behalf of the other side. The ‘coat-hanger abortion’ thing is not entirely a myth, but a very small number. While it’s certainly a hard thing to put one’s finger on, the number of injuries or deaths related to covert abortions is the hundreds, and fewer still are fatalities. Most illegal abortions done in states where they are severely limited are done by medical professionals in a cash-under-the-table fashion.
Furthermore, while the rate of injuries due to illicit abortions went down in countries that have legalized it, such as Japan, the number doesn’t disappear. People still do it even when abortion is legal.
I’m pro-choice, but I don’t want to have the facts misrepresented.
Aremis
Semper, you moron, stop misinterpreting Anon’s words. They may not have stated it clearly, but I think it’s pretty evident that Anon is arguing for late term abortions in which the woman would die without it.
Igor, you idiot. What happened to your opposition to generalization? Does it only count when the right generalizes the left? I am pretty sure that there are not too many sick sick republicans out there that would oppose a late term abortion if the womans life were at stake.
Semper, you butthead, I’m not objecting to that argument. I’m objecting to the fact that you say ”
So in all the late term abortions that happen the pregnant womans life is in danger and without it she would die?”
When it’s pretty clear that while that may be what they said, it’s not the intended argument.
Igor, darling, don’t speak for others unless you’re sure that’s what they intended. Semper took it the way he took it for a reason, same as you did. Anon was generalizing, and if you’re going to hold my side to making sure they have their ducks in a row before they make a statement, you better damn well do the same for your side, especially on such a hot button issue as abortion where both sides like to throw out all kinds of accusations and idiotic statements.
You know, like Anon saying that sick = Republicans.
Froo, you poopy peepee, I’m right and everyone else is wronGGGGG!!! -Throws third grade tantrum-
Thanks for keeping me in line, Froo.
Ty froo. I still like you Igor lol. I especially liked the butthead comment lol. If you look way way way down the page I did end up defending Anon.
Anon did say “I can’t imagine the state of mind necessary to tell a woman facing a life-threatening condition, “Sorry, but we’re gonna kill you and the fetus, instead of just the fetus.”” Whether that means Anon meant all late term abortions are because the mother faces death or that all late term abortions need to be allowed in case of that is questionable.
That being said, Anon has done a great job of making liberals look pretty bad on this thread. And I hate late term abortions.
Zuul… Er…Rando, you don’t like late term abortions? You’re losing your moderate librul card now, too.
lots of things bitter troll dont like, but think should be perfectly legal.
guns, abortion, taxes, dwarf tossing, country music..all these things bitter troll dont like, but the gobment should have no right to restrict
It would be very hypocritical of me to condone late term abortions, especially if the baby is viable. And shortright still has my dirty librul card. *I* think she’s secretly using it for herself.
But in my opinion, if the baby is viable then they should deliver the baby, not kill him/her. The exception being if the mother’s welfare is at stake. As for the legal aspects, I won’t touch that one.
Is there any good summary of what your laws re abortion look like somewhere? The way it sometimes sounds, plenty of American women only a week or two before scheduled delivery go “Nah, I changed my mind” and get an abortion. Somehow I doubt it is like that. Are doctors allowed to do late abortions in the US unless there are serious medical/social reasons? How common are they?
(I am interested in the facts, not anecdotes.)
Obama supports abortion…:
In point of fact, he sponsored a piece of legislation which would make it legal to terminate a live-born child if it survived an abortion attempt.
Cite that, Cyan.
Charro, s/he is correct, except that the legislation (that Obama VOTED for, not necessarily sponsored) would make it legal to allow the baby born because of a botched abortion to die as opposed to providing care needed to keep it alive. The reasoning behind that is that the mother didn’t want the child, and by giving medical care to the botched abortion child, you would be thwarting the wishes of the mother. He voted for such legislation 3 times while in the Illinois Senate.
Here is a link to FactcheckDOTorg that will clear some of it up. Some of teh controversy is more interpretation-related than anything. {http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/obama_and_infanticide.html}
On a personal note, I feel he was voting to allow babies to die. And I feel that is terribly wrong.
I don’t know about the numbers, Danbala, but I thought it was something like 16 weeks was the latest legal time for an abortion.
I admit to not actually knowing, and that I think it depends on the state you’re in.
they was criminal babies…
Never mind. Froo tells me that you have to have a DAMN good reason for one past 28 weeks, but other than that, there aren’t any real restrictions. I lied.
Roe V Wade used a “trimester rule”, but since viability can happen as early as 22-28 weeks, that was struck down. We now go by a “viability rule”, which is a little hazy in the article I read. Anything after 28 weeks is seriously frowned on, however.
Oh, right, We have week 18 and week 22 here. After 18 you need a special permit to get one, after 22 it’s basically replaced with “ending pregnancy” which isn’t the same thing as an abortion, again – unless there are very special medical/social reasons to do elsewise.
Wow. Pardon my massive interpunctuation fails there. There should be a full stop before “again”. :p
froo–Well, according to that article, in Illinois, there is a provision that doctors have to try to help any baby that could be at viability. If that’s the case, then the whole thing is a moot point because hospitals don’t try to save babies that haven’t reached the point of viability. So if a botched abortion results in a baby that survives under about 23 weeks, they won’t try to save the baby anyway. At 23 weeks or over, Illinois says they have to save the baby anyway. Is that what the bill is saying? That botched abortions are excepted from that provision in IL? I may have missed something.
Thanks froo, but I just wanted to know if Cyan could actually back up what they were saying instead of going off and saying “OBAMA IS A BABY KILLER! AND EVIL!”. I prefer my hate mongering to be backed up with unbiased links instead of one line unsupported wharrgarbles. You took all the fun out of it. *pouts*
Actually, froo, I read up on that “partial birth abortion” hoopla, and I must say I found it quite unsettling and disturbing.
At any rate, I don’t know how I feel about “botched” abortions that result in a viable fetus that is “alive” outside mama’s womb.. It seems very Catch-22ish to me. See, if the little tyke can survive.. Well, shouldn’t we try to save it? It’s alive.. You wouldn’t hit a dog and then go “eh” and drive off..
No, we shouldn’t saddle moms with kids they obviously don’t want because that just won’t end well. But then we are going to face this problem: Who takes care of this child? Who pays for the time in the NICU? Who pays for whatever that fancy life saving stuff is? Say mom isn’t insured. Who’s gonna pick up the tab? Well, (most of) the Republicans/Conservatives are gonna say “Not the Gubbernmint, that’s a handout! Why should WE have to pay it?!” (“Well, you’re the ones that want it saved..”) AFTER the kid doesn’t need all that life saving stuff, who takes care of it then? Maybe mom was getting it aborted cause she couldn’t afford it. Well, ok, we adopt it out. But STILL, WHO PAYS FOR ALL THAT CARE? Should we “force” mom to, because it was her baby, but the abortion was “botched”? Should the doctor that “botched” it pay? Should we make the new parents pay for it? What are we gonna do with all these extra babies that (I don’t mean to sound heartless) aren’t wanted?
Economically, it’s probably better to not save them. But, that’s Capitalist/Conservative/Republican economics. No one wants to pay for it, it’s not theirs.
Socially, it’s better to save them. It’s not of questionable ethics, and people who want babies can adopt them.
I think you’re right, it’s of questionable ethics to let babies die. But what do we do with them once we save them? I think it’s kind of ass backwards for Republicans/Conservatives to believe people should breed despite hardships but then not support things like nationalised Health Care to take care of all the extra people. It boggles my mind.
Who’s right? In a perfect world, there would be no unwanted pregnancies. In a less perfect world, all abortions would take place before viability. In a lesser perfect world, we could remove viable babies from the womb and place them in exowombs free of charge until they hatch and can be given to people who want them. In a lesser perfecter world.. We have this crap hand we’re dealt.
I’m still pro-choice. It may not be a fun choice, but for those that do it it’s usually the right choice at that time for them.
“But STILL, WHO PAYS FOR ALL THAT CARE?”
The funny thing in relation to the health-care debate here is that the answer is still the american public. When hospitals/physicians provide no fee service to a patient or write off part of that bill, they still have to recoup those costs. As a result, they raise costs for other medical treatments. The insurance companies, while certainly not paying EVERY claim, pay a lot of them. As a result they, too, must recoup the money from somewhere, which results in higher premiums for all.
In other words, what everyone is panicking about with healthcare is already true, it’s just true of comapnies that take up to 30% off the top for admin overhead and profit instead of a government bureacracy.
I’m agnostic on the public plan option, which is funny since I work at a health company with an insurance division. But I’m not blind to the fact that pretty much every objection raised to the public plan option is already the case in the private system. Except with the private system, I don’t get to vote on it, and somebody with a stock trader’s jacket pockets a share of my premium.
On the flip side I’m not entirely confident in the US government’s ability to run a public plan. I’m all for not only a public plan, but single payor. I’m not afraid of government ‘pulling the plug on gramma’ (creepy music). It’s a garbage argument. But I am worried that they’ll botch it and mess it up. Not because it’s A government, but because it’s THIS government. I’m a space geek, and I’ve seen what they’ve done with NASA over and over and over again.
Aremis
Kudos points Aremis, for actually making sensible arguments both ways.
IMO the “elephant in the room” un US health care is “just WTF is the 6% more than France spend going?” We know it’s not going into “better” because if was then the US would at least show in the top 10. The Conservatives say it’s not going into windfall profits (I’ll give you guys that 3% isn’t a windfall profit), but it’s got to be going somewhere!
The unborn have a guaranteed spot in heaven, and those that abort them have a chance a redemption. Isn’t a guarantee of one soul going to heaven much better than just a chance of two? God gave you a mind to use it. The choice is obvious – why would you selfishly deny the unborn soul a guarantee to spend eternity with the perfect creator? Why would you assume those that choose abortion are neither thoughtful nor worthy of forgiveness and redemption?
*Randomly finds a place to comment on abortion issue* I find it just odd that the gov’t says killing unborn babies with a needle and medicine is ok but with a gun/knife other weapon is a crime. (See semi recent trials of husbands killing prego wives and getting TWO counts of murder…)
the issue is still about choice. if you intend to carry the fetus all the way to birth and actually have a baby that you want and can care for, then someone killing the fetus and/or you is taking away your choice to have it.
i don’t want anyone to take away the option of being able to have a safe, legal abortion, but i also don’t want anyone to be forced into an abortion either.
I don’t necessarily disagree with abortion, just, if they’re gonna kill the baby, kill the mom too. Possibly kill the dad as well.
If we, as a modern society, still allow and encourage murder of our offspring, fvck it, kill everyone. Why don’t we just drop bombs all over our nation?
I say if you’re willing to kill, why not go all the way?
Ahm, because maybe the fetus is life-threatening anyway, and that kind of wrecks the point?
This one made me wince too. Can’t we just let this thread die once and for all?
No.
Nope, I don’t think we’ve gone on enough self-righteous tangents or restated the same statistical errors nearly enough times. I think we need to point out that Hitler killed more people than that again, then suggest that our least favorite politicians’ policies actually killed just as many. I haven’t heard enough of those yet.
Besides, how am I gonna boost my ego by proving I’m smarter with more random pulled-put-of-a-hat statistics based on zero historical merit?
Aremis
MUUUUUUUUUUUDERRRRRRRRR!!!!!
Wait, wrong thread.
Actually it’s much more than that. I read on this really cool blog that it’s more like 1.7 billion. Yer stoopid fer not knowing that!
You’re a silly douche.
There are better ways to talk to yourself than using an Internet forum.
You sure are clever, high five, sir.
Well. I can be clever, but I try to adapt my responses to the recipient.
Crazy betch must be Marcie from Peanuts because she just called you “sir.”
Oh, it was the highlights of her posts, so I ain’t complainin’.
Charlie Brown: … All while having strong Christian overtones!
Marcie(to Peppermint Patty): Hold me, sir!
*they embrace*
Charlie Brown: I SAID: STRONG CHRISTIAN OVERTONES!
Is that from something? That’s hilarious.
robot chicken for the WIN!
This just proved what I already know. That I have to watch more Robot Chicken.
I agree. Douching is silly.
I wish so hard I had the energy to do the math and figure out how often every woman of childbearing age in America would have to get pregnant to make that figure a reality. It’s probably more often than we have periods.
Okay, I sucked it up and did the math. It’s not actually more often than we have periods, but in order to have 1.7 billion abortions in 7 years every American woman between the ages of 15 and 44 would have to get pregnant and have an abortion about 4 times a year.
That doesn’t happen.
But if it did, it would still be none of your damn business, because every woman has the right to evict anyone from her personal uterus at any time she sees fit. My uterus; I decide who can use it. Much like how the government doesn’t force you to donate a kidney.
You…you have just been put up on a pedestal right next to shortright. A goddess. A shining example of womanhood. May I idolize you? *grovel-grovel*
(no, I’m not being sarcastic. That was an AWESOME post)
we are here for the kidney….you signed the organ donar card…ok then lets have with the kidney before we ask eric idol to sing
Get the liver too, we need something to serve for dinner.
I’ll bring the fava beans and a nice Chianti!
But I’m not done with it!!!
oh yes-pulls out his butcher knife- your very done with it BA HA HA HA HA HA-coughs- gah…must work on my evil bitter laugh
Cause that’s all about standards…
oh everyone knows S_B can beat up the bitter troll. bitter troll may be giant bridge troll of force and fury and bitterness…but he cant hit no lady
You know, I might not can hit a girl, but I can slap the hell out of a bitch.
Plus, I’m a raging, violent bitch.
*punches bitter troll right in his hump*
Well that’s why I have my Jane-clones, I just get one of them to hit a woman if I needed to.
yay, you remembered that i’m already on a pedestal and didn’t kick me out in favor of the newcomer.
p.s. i don’t remember what i did to earn this honor. i just remember that i’m a total badass and you love me for it.
“i’m a total badass and you worship me for it.”
There. Fixed it.
*kicks shortright’s pedestal out of jealousy*
Don’t be jealous, beautiful charro. There’s a pedistal here waiting for you. Just as soon as you figure out a way to keep your troll from sexually abusing me in my sleep. *wink*
-places charro on a pedistal- its all shiny and white and surrounded by these funny plants
*dons pearls*
*climbs up on pedestal* Hey! Quit lookin up my dress!
your a mermaid, how you wearing a dress?
I’m on land. On land I have gams. Remember?
Honestly, I tend to put ALL women on pedestals. You are all glorious creatures, mysterious and beautiful. Also, it’s easier to look up your dresses.
ooh foto op!
Remember – men who put women on pedestals rarely knock them off.
Oh… did you actually think I was being serious? Golly, I didn’t know I could pull it off that well. Thanks!
Okay, so it’s your uterus. But once you get pregnant, there’s a child growing in your uterus. I don’t care what you do with the uterus as long as the child gets the chance to live.
maybe if the uterus payed rent people might not mind
So is Alexis going to prosecute everyone who miscarries a pregnancy? That would be about 15% of symptomatic/known pregnancies, and another 15% of pregnancies if you test for the pregnancy hormone.
BTW, some companies in Mexico enforce monthly pregnancy tests, and fire any woman with a positive test.
They should at least give you the option of the rusty coat hanger before firing you. Sheesh.
but work is filled with flights of stairs you can just fall down!
Yeah, but then they have to pay you Workman’s Comp. Oh wait.. do they even have that in Mexico?
no no, just fall down the stairs, lose the fetus, back to sewing clothing for the rest of the world
Nooo, not the rest of the world. We don’t get stuff sewn in Mexico, we stick to Chinese child labour!
lazy…clearly some of those younger girls could be used as sex slaves to tourists!
*sigh* Yes, forcing women to breed is MUCH more humanitarian than well placed abortions.
sorry womens your rights are to be stripped, and you will be placed in breeding camps. you will spend all day cooking, cleaning and breeding as god intended.
GOOD LUCK GETTING ME TO DO ANY OF THAT CRAP. Fukc that shit, yo.
you wont clean for your bitter troll?
I prefer to just move whenever the house gets dirty.
charro is smart, charro is wise
I did go to those dirty socialist schools.
But she didn’t stay at the dirty socialist schools long, because like she said, they got dirty. She moved on to the next one.
It’s hard to find a clean socialist school nowadays.. *looks towards Sweden* Hey… Danbala, need a flat-mate?!
Depends… Can you clean and do dishes and …? Cause I sure as hell can’t. ;p
I can.. But that doesn’t mean that I WILL. Let’s go live with Covenant.
Oh, nonono. ;p
But, I love Covenant. Especially Eskil. Nom.
it’s a child now? When did fetus=child? I though that’s why we labeled it something besides ‘child’
Pffft. Zygote, gamete, fetus, these words mean nothing to the pro-lifers! IT’S A BABY!! MUUUUURRRRRDDDERRRRRR!!!
Blargh, I meant to post as me and to say “embryo” not “gamete”. Biology fail..
if thats true, then your vagina aborts a baby every month you have your period
YOUR UTERUS IS A MURDERER! AND A RACIST! THAT BABY WAS BLACK, WASN’T IT?!?!?!?
and sexist! it was gonna be a girl! and it does this every month???? YOUR UTERUS IS A SERIEL KILLER!
Why dear god… did that premise give me an Idea for a CSI spinoff?
I’M A RACIST!!! I’M GONNA CRY!!!
I’m pretty sure that if you can stick it in a freezer, it’s not a child.
*pulls schlong out of freezer* Whut?
See? Schlong, not child.
[LINK]
“My uterus; I decide who can use it.”
You do decide who can use it, you did that when you had sex and got pregnant :/
Yeah, but it was a short-term lease.
Zing!
You’re completely ignorant if you think all unwanted pregnancies result from unprotected wanton sex; and if you think that sex is not a natural part of life and love and for purposes other than breeding.
And what about all those sluts letting themselves get raped, huh?
They deserve it. Did you see what they were wearing?!
Purple? {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fqq051BU2MY}
Super funny.
I’m gonna tie you to the radiator and grape you!
I’m gonna stuff a sausage down your throat and hungry dogs up your butt!
Yeah! He grapes em!
Not to mention the gals using hormone contraception who took antibiotics (which often inactivate the effect, but many docs don’t warn their patients). –I know one who refers to her daughter as her ’strep throat baby’.
And the fact that diaphragms don’t work well with when the uterus is retroverted (1/4 of women are retroverted). Doctors aren’t aware of this/don’t counsel their patients.
Condoms fail you;
Diaphragms leak;
Spermicide stains you;
The pill is weak;
Tied tubes are awful;
Vasectomies cause pain;
Male contraception is unlawful;
You might as well abstain.
Awwwww you did a Dorothy Parker pun!
*wubs*
but abstaining no fun
Yeah, diaphragms are about 80% effective. Which, in layman’s terms, means, “Congratulations! You’re pregnant!”
untill fetus pays rent and gets a job, it is to be considered a parasite growth!
^Is parody?
BT is our resident dose of awesome. He’s hilarious. Nothing he says should be taken seriously, unless he’s having an insightful moment.
in the courts of kings, the fool was most often listened too. he had nothing to gain and everything to lose
-Stares at awesome-
-Worships awesome-
Dear madam… May I use your uterus? Or at least that annoying little thing right below it?
See? The old argument if MEN got pregnant abortion would be a sacrament is still true.
That was a great post!
Which blog was that? Theearthisflat@crusadesaren’toveryet.bom?
Cool! Charlie has heard of it too!
Spread the word Charlie!
or the incense. Hey how is the R.C. Church so like the hippies? Is that why so many catholics turned into liberals. Now that I think about it, those Latin masses that I went to as a kid sounded a lot like George Harrison’s My sweet Lord!
So they ripped off a song that was ripped off of another song?
Abortion is definitely not a great choice, but to legislate any choice is to loose freedom. Our country is supposedly based on freedom.?. That is supposed to be why we fought the Iraq War, is it not? For Freedom?
Also, Obama did not order 7 years of abortion in the U.S.A.
I did, and I ordered it with a side of fries. I never got the fries though. Ah well, such is life.
There is a Wendy’s in Ohio that owes me about a jagillion orders of 5 piece chicken nuggets. I’d order for everyone as we were rushing somewhere, grab my change and the bag and ask for straws and napkins and while someone else rummaged around, all I could think of as we sped down the road was, “oooohhhh, chicken nuggets” and then all I’d get was my Coke.
I’m sad remembering all this.
strange, bitter troll remembers going to wendy’s and getting his order, and haveing a extra zillion chiken breaded chunk things.
I remember going to Wendy’s and getting cold fries. *sigh*
Better than cold skunk, I always say.
I dunno, wendy’s fries are usually bad when they’re warm, I shudder to think of them cold…*shudders(not really…)*
It’s worth it for a Baconator.
But but he did not unorder either them so he is satan and hitler and atilia the hun and..wait I got to check my latest palinite tweet for the rest of the list..BRB
For the record, Hitler only killed 6 million JEWS. He also killed millions of Slavs, Poles, and Gypsies among others. People always seem to forget them.
Whether or not it is right or wrong for people to have abortions, it’s unfair to assign the blame/praise to president depending on his personal views. If Obama says you can have like ice cream if you want it but you don’t have to if you don’t want it, then even if you decided never to have any ice cream, would you blame him if some people ate too much ice cream and got diabetes?
I am sorry A-Bomb, but the liberal left “we’re going to fix you” mentality would blame the one who let them have the ice cream that caused the diabetes. Or, the heaters that cause cancer, or the trans fats that cause obesity. That being said, my die hard republican grandfather used to say that the government has no right to be in your bedroom or your body. And I agree with him.
Uhm.
Yeah.
Alright.
Let’s go with that “We’re going to fix you” mentality, we could use it to reverse that lobotomy.
Yes, because those were all forced by our dear leaders.
(NO!)
ELEVEN MILLION! six million jews, and five million POWs, serbs, croats, gypys, Russians…
Perhaps that statistic is true, but abortions is irrelevant when it comes to politics. Obama may have some political say in the issue, but from a moral perspective his opinion is no different from yours or mine, so I suppose that makes me Hitler.
Ask a holocaust survivor if it’s the same. Go right ahead. I’m not going to hold my breath, or say “I told you so!” while you receive the cussing out that you deserve for daring to bring a parallel between the 2.
im sorry but you must be some kind of an idiot. are you really comparing abortions to millions of jews killed in world war 2?
So how’s that right-to-life amendment going in the state legislatures? You know, the one that got passed when Bush and the Republicans ran the whole federal government? Oh yeah, there never was any right-to-life amendment. Never got written, let alone introduced, voted for by 2/3 of both houses and send to the states. I guess you trollz can STFU now.
In the US, 1.21 million abortions took place in 2005. (www.abort73.com) So, actually, less than 7 years.
There are only 7.5 million women of childbearing age in the US. Looks like someone needs to learn some math.
Um.. I somehow doubt your figures there, champ. Maybe you should cite an unbiased link?
Wait, I’ll do it for you. According to the US Census Bureau, there were 151,627,727 women in the US in the period ending 2007. 40.9% of them were 15-44. So, that means that 62,015,740 women were of childbearing age during the period.
Moron.
You weren’t supposed to notice!
that about sums it up doesn’t it?
of course abortion wasn’t legalized in the last 8 months, was it? conservatives have had at least two golden opportunities to produce and pass legislation to overturn roe v. wade, once under W. and once under reagan. guess what? didn’t happen. you’ll have at least 3 years and three more months to blame obama for things (i’ll join you in some of them), but you can’t hang roe v. wade on him.
You are forgetting half of the sentence. killing 6,000,000 people for INFERIOR GENES. People don’t get abortions because of inferior genes, they get abortions because they can’t keep their legs closed.
If you really believe that…you’re a tool.
Yep. Sadly, horribly, true.
yeah but abortions don’t matter
More like 5 years.
Abortion isn’t murder. Stupid judeo-christianofascists…
really? your’e comparing abortions to the holocaust? if youre so pious go adopt some poor lonely kid. all you right to lifers should be required to adopt. “right to life” are you kidding me?!?! how about iraqi or afganhstani children and people? do they not have a “right to life” you hypocrite. it’s easy when its not your situation. pro lifers are the quickest to support war, even though “colateral damage” basically means dead innocent people. yeah! dead people!!! so jesus would be upset about an abortion, but killing 100’s of people for a political win is ok? ….. this world is lost upon people like you. go way. you’re a simple, simple person, and i pray you dont breed
I hope you realize that no matter how many laws there are against abortion, people will still have them done. Would you still hold Obama accountable even then?
and Amen!
Let’s not forget Mussolini! But, yes, he wasn’t AS bad as Hitler. Still bad though. There’s room to wiggle.
And Castro. And Idi Amin. And Stalin. Vlad the Impaler. Ghenghis Khan. ect., ect., ect.
Ect? WTF is ect?
etc. whatever
Pol-Pot!
Don’t forget the rooms filled with skulls of Cambodians!
Hey! Get out of my basement!
And don’t step on the grass when you leave!
Pfft. Cambodians. REAL collectors go for Mongolians.
It’s a holiday, in Cambodia!
For the record, not only is calling someone “Hitler” demeaning to that person, in a messed up way, its demeaning to Hitler.
I mean, think about it. Hitler had to do a bunch of messed up stuff to be “Hitler”. Satan had to offend God himself to get his bad rep.
If you don’t like Obama, rip on Obama for being Obama. If you hate Bush, fine, hate him for being Bush.
Some dumb ass put in a blog about republicans and intellectuals, in the same sentence with GWB in the mix? They must have forgotten the war in Iraq that has killed thousands of our troops; when Iraq was surrounded for ten years? What was that lie again?
I also need someone to tell me what I can and cannot do with my body; any volunteers? And you say your not stupid!
you cannot smoke crack with your body…
I agree here too.
Hmmmmm, preachy, but more true than most LOLs lately.
Yeah, it’s a preachy one, but at least it’s true. You don’t get that much from preachy LOLs.
LoL. You want to call a truce now that the socialist is in office. Last year you couldn’t post enough of the “our president=Hitler” pics.
I see what the captioner is saying, but you should look up http://www.blackgenocide.org/planned.html and Margaret Sanger and Marie Stopes in relation to eugenics. Marie Stopes even sent poems to Hitler http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/geraldwarner/5051109/Marie_Stopes_is_forgiven_racism_and_eugenics_because_she_was_antilife/
Planned Parenthood was founded to help eliminate “undesirables” and limit minority peoples reproduction and Obama is a big supporter of abortion and giving American tax dollars to “family planning” groups worldwide.
You need to loosen your tinfoil hat a bit, its cutting off circulation.
The instant I see “blog” in a link, I’ve already discounted your story as BS. And this is hardcore loony here.
Hmmmm, Margaret Sanger was a Progressive, which is what Hillary claims to be. Obama is a Socialist. He said to look at the people he surrounds himself with to solve problems. If financial, Warren Buffet, if change, Van Jones, or Bill Ayres.
Please read a little history and don’t assume that all “progressives” and all “socialists” have had the same ideas and opinions throughout history. Look at the social and cultural context of the time. Honestly, I have to wonder if much of our population has learned anything in school. Liberals aren’t all in agreement with each other over every single issue, and neither are conservatives.
And please tell me when Bill Ayres joined the Obama administration in any capacity.
ESM, if any topics are slightly related some stupid as f*ck troll will come in. So get prepared for Spielberg-Stalin links because (le gasp) they have the SAME BIRTHDAY!!!
bitter troll has the same birthday as patrick steward
Does that make you Picard? Please say that makes you Picard.
I have the same birthday as Mark David Chapman. That was a little creepy to learn that.
it makes bitter troll picard ancestor.
Make it so!
Tea. Earl grey. Hot.
Still not as bad as sharing one with “Pee Wee”. >_>
I have the same birthday as Ronald Reagan, and I’m a progressive. I hope that caused some heads to explode.
I WISH Liberals could get together on even just a FEW ideas. But just looking at the Health Care debate we can’t seem to get our ducks in a line.
Also I have Socialist friends who used to live in Socialist countries. They don’t like Obama, he’s too Conservative for them.
I think it’s funny when people call Obama socialist. He’s nowhere close. Maybe a slight hint of it, but not the hardcore socialist that righties think he is.
Hmmmm hitler was a christian just like palin…….hmmmm fred flintstone was a fat loundmouth so is rush limpballs..hmmmmm.
I am always “annoyed” by idiots who use lies and inuendo to smear someones reputation…hmmmmmm
STFU. That is the extreme people take when they are trying to eliminate abortion.
The RICH can afford abortion and BC much easier than poor people, so THAT doesn’t even make sense!
And MANY MANY States are trying to deny poor people access to abortions in ways such as- having to wait 10-20 hours before getting an abortion, or having to pay for an ultrasound before the abortion can be performed.
This makes it HARDER for poor people, (aka, undesirables) because they don’t have the money or the time!
President Obama supports a women’s right to CHOOSE! A point you palinites refuse to see. He is against government interference in any decisions between a women and her Dr.
And perhaps if there were more family PLANNING resources available there would be less abortions.
Finally when did this margarest sanger die, how long ago what it?? Geeze welcome to the 20th century for goodness sake. Nobody is forced to get an abortion, it is a CHOICE.
It cracks me up when people rag on family planning organizations. Okay, they perform abortions, which in your world is murder. I don’t agree with that stance, but I’ll grant it in this case. They perform a wide array of functions aside from abortions and the policy for abortions is to have a waiting period betweent he decision and the abortion complete with councilling and discussion on the repercussions. It’s not like a freaking oil change. Many of the family planning clinics don’t even perform abortions.
When my wife and I first got pregnant, we didn’t have much money and my insurance on my new job hadn’t kicked in yet. We went to a family planning clinic to get our first ultrasound and confirmation of pregnancy because otherwise we wouldn’t have been able to afford it. That clinic didn’t offer abortions. They didn’t even refer people for them.
For years prior to that my wife went to various clinics to get contraception because she was a college student who had emancipated herself from her parents and couldn’t afford standard ob/gyn care or the cost of the pills.
And to the stated purpose of Planned Parenthood, I’ll point out that once upon a time Henry Ford planned on using his plants to support the Germans. Does that make Ford a Nazi organization?
Aremis
I don’t remember posting ANY pics of Hitler, tyvm. Watch where you’re wagging that finger. I’ll bite it off. I pity the foo.
You were drunk off your “Death Panel Promotion” power that day, dear.
Foo goes to the death panels, too. Where’s Comrade Maxwell when you need him?
Sorry… my boss pulled a Lumbergh on me and made me work saturday morning… And I’m currently still at work.. again, my home pc got some kind of trojan… hydra…. worm… and I spent last night trying to reformat etc…
I’m going on 4 hours sleep in the fast 48 hours… I beg a troll to start some sh*t with me today
*opens his jacket to reveal 4 grenades with a string run through each pin*
I’m… ready… to just… go… to pieces…
Yeeeeaahhh…Maxwell, I’m gonna need you to, uh let go of that string, m’kay…yeeaaahh, I’m not sure if you got the memo, but explosives aren’t allowed in the office even on the weekend…it’s pretty much just like any other day…so if you could just put the grenades down over there with the TPS reports that would be great.
Let’s not.. blow.. this out of proportion.
Good job, troll. You just assumed that Eric A) is a democrat, and B) that he compared Bush to Hitler.
Don’t act like one person is responsible for their entire political party, you incoherent tool.
but igor!!! if we cant do that, the democrates cant blame everything on bush
Igor, there is no Eric, only Zuul, uh, Rando. I meant Rando. Douchey McDouchebag got a lucky guess on A but was waaaaaaay off on B. In fact, I said specifically later in the thread that I *didn’t* think Bush was like Hitler. So Dumb McStupidtard really dropped the ball up there.
Lucky guess on A? Not that lucky lol. All he had to do was read your posts for the last 4 LOL’s
)
Well, maybe everyone isn’t familiar with my particular views.
Don’t be serious Semper, drive-by trolls can’t and don’t read.
Good point. I once again stand corrected. Damn..this is becoming annoying always having to stand corrected.
Try sitting corrected. Unless you’ve got a stick up your ass, like some of the trolls here, it’s a lot more comfortable.
I prefer lying down corrected, and taking a nap corrected.
Actually over 11 million people were killed in the concentration camps; approximately 6 million were Jewish, and most of the rest were Slavic peoples.
Add to that another 20 or 30 million people, mostly civilians, killed in the field, particularly in the Soviet Union and Poland. Total: anywhere from 30 to even 45 million, depending on how you count, killed by the Germans alone.
Don’t forget the Gypsies, homosexuals and JW’s. The worst of our presidents was Warren Harding. GWB was just the most dumb.
JW’s? Jehova’s Witnessess?
Yes
Because they didn’t accept the military draft and were seen as a liability.
What about Mr. “I can’t make up my mind” Carter? Maybe he was just the most ineffective.
And I think the ghost of Richard Nixon would like a recount!
Why was Carter the worst president?
Clearly, it was the sweater. And the Southern accent.
Poor Jimmy.
Jimmy has done a lot more good as “former president Jimmy Carter” than he ever could have accomplished in the White House. Carter gets a lifetime achievement award despite his presidency.
A lifetime of anti-semitism and living off the Saudi payroll. Carter has made more of a mess of himself after the White House than he did while president – and that’s saying something!
And just what is your standard of measure? What is the criteria you have selected by which you can so boldly and simplistically pronounce GWB was the “most dumb”?
Please share your methodology and complete results.
I’d love to know your expert opinion on who was second most dumb, And third.
And what do you think about Mr. Bush? I’d love to hear more.
I think I’ve lived long enough to hear several Republican Presidents summarily dismissed as “dumb” – each one declared more stupid than the last. I think being a graduate of both Yale and Harvard, being a National Guard pilot, being a 4-term governor, a 2-term president are far better indicators of his intelligence than the off-handed comments of someone who doesn’t like the man. You don’t like Bush – fine. State your case. But spare us all the useless insults until you have accomplished at least half as much in your own life.
Sorry. My dad didn’t have the connections that Shrub did. Otherwise my “accomplishments” would likely be similar. To paraphrase one of my favorite movies: There are two kinds of smarts. Book smarts, which waved bye-bye to him long ago, and people smarts. The ability to read people and tell them what they want to hear. Bush can do that, albeit not very eloquently. There have been far smarter Republican presidents intelligence wise. Same for Democrats.
I agree Rando. I am consistently amazed that people point to Bush’s accomplishments in school and business with a straight face. If my dad had connections like the Prescott Walker Bush clan, HECK, I would have been president!!
Free coffee for everyone!!!!
Hell, I know I’m smarter than that chump George Bush. If I had the opportunities he had, I would’ve done it right and taken over the damn world!
But the Kennedys had connections, too, and you don’t rip them for being terminally stupid or overly privileged.
Be consistent or be gone.
Oh the kennedys may be a band ( know the famous ones are dead but the remaining ones still are!) of drunken womanizeing louts, but they only expose us to the smart ones. the stupid ones they keep chained in the basement. Bush one was far from stupid, i didnt agree with his politics, but he was far from stupid. they dont let stupid wimps be head of the CIA. Bush 2:the reckoning….well…-coughs-…he was very charming…
No shit the Kennedys had connections. The difference being they WEREN’T stupid. Sure, being Kennedys saved their asses any given number of times, but they were smarter all around than GWB.
Oh and “be gone?” Make me.
“No shit” is a huge understatement.
Bush’s family wealth and connections aren’t even in the same universe as the Kennedy family’s. Papa Joe and his lawyers were the smart ones, if they hadn’t idiot-proofed the fortune he made in bootlegging and insider trading, his fool offspring would have already pissed it all away.
I think that you’re giving yourself a lot of credit. You’d be a fighter pilot, governor, and two-term president if only your dad had better connections. That’s really the ONLY thing that kept you from such accomplishment? I wish my dad had had better connections, and I suspect that I might have gone further if he had, but really, I would not assert that that is my only limitation.
when did a debate of politics become an over-the-internet duel of money and “connetions”?
connections. i can type, i swear.
I can’t type, which makes me swear, frequently!
It’s a stereotype that frequent swearing leads to conceptions.
There’s a misconception about swearing at certain types of stereos.
I swear, for typing that concept you certainly get a Hi Fi(ve) from this miss.
Eh, maybe not a fighter pilot. But if my dad had the same connections that George H.W. Bush had, then I see no reason why I couldn’t do what Junior did. Except I’d probably own a hockey team, not a baseball team. And I’m still too young to be president. And call me cocky, but I’m pretty fvcking sure I’m smarter than GWB.
I do not deny Bush had access by virtue of his family connections. But he seems to have made the most of it, compared say, to Al Gore, who was a dropout. It’s one thing to get in the door, it’s quite another to stay there. If you think his life is simply about inside connections then I point you to any number of Kennedy clan members who have completely squandered the considerable opportunity given them.
It’s all quite tidy and neat to say GWB only got to where he was because of special privilege. BTW, such a statement is also applicable to other types of “connections”. Are you willing to apply the same condemnation to other forms of privilege? Are you willing to say Obama became president merely because his color afforded him special affirmative action privileges? Is anyone willing to say “If my dad was black like Obama, HECK, I would have been president”.?
Condemnation? Who said I was condemning it or condoning it? I just said Bush’s connections exist and I would be where he was easily with those same opportunities. Obama worked hard to get where he is. And I hesitate greatly to say Bush can say the same.
OK, Amazing…so I just want to be sure I understand your position:
GWB’s accomplishments are a result of his “connections”, and Obama’s accomplishments are because of hard work.
Bush’s success could be easily replicated by you if you had the same “connections” and you know for a fact that you are smarter than him. (I’d still love to know what your standard of measurement is)
And you apparently chose to ignore my question about affirmative action, though it is also a form of privilege.
And yeah, you did seem to be using the whole “connections” thing as a form of condemnation since I’m pretty sure you would say GWB could never have done what he did without those “connections”, since he is so dumb, right?
Do you honestly think that if his dad hadn’t been George H.W. Bush that Shrub would’ve been president? Or even governor? I think affirmative action can help you do a lot of things if you are a minority. Becoming president is a bit of a stretch if you ask me. And yes, I’m smarter than Shrub.
Be careful there, Amazing. You just made a statement that could be interpreted as racist.
BTW – are you more humble than GWB too?
YOU’RE RACIST!!! RACIST!!! I’M GONNA CRYYYY!!!
A lifetime of bad luck and bad decisions have humbled me greatly, my friend. Now, like I said before, GWB lacked book smarts, but knew how to handle people (again, not eloquently, but he could do it). I’m the other way around. I’ve got book smarts, but IRL I can’t complete a sentence to save my life. You know what I need? A teleprompter!!
Why was what I said racist? Obama didn’t win the presidency with affirmative action. He wasn’t handed the job over McCain because he’s African American. He won the damn election.
Obama is distantly related to both Bush and Cheney so I guess that makes his ‘connections’
{http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/FOX_Obama_related_to_Bush_Cheney_1017.html}
al gore dropped out?
was this before or after graduating cum laude from harvard with a ba in 1969???
Some day I hope to Cum Loud.
hopefully in a 69!
He came loudly doing 69 with a sheep?
Aw, pitty, ewe know he’s sheepish about that. Don’t goat him into anything.
ewe.
oh no one will get wooly over something like this
I’m expecting to get lambasted any minute now.
That’s just shear nonsense, bitter.
Much ado about mutton . . .
And just like that! *hoof* it’s gone.
I always knew pitty was the black sheep of this site. *cue SB’s sock calling racism*
notoriginaldigdeeperracistretartchokesputter*dies*
THIS CAPTION IS RACIST AGAINST SHEEP! SHEEP ARE PEOPLE TOO AND YOU’RE A BUNCH OF RACIST SHEEP MURDERERS!
*cries about it*
Yo, this motherfvcker ain’t one of us! He said he’d fvck a sheep!!!!
It was after. He dropped out of graduate school. (Vanderbilt Divinity School)
Here is an interesting little tidbit about his undergrad years as well:
http://www.larryelder.com/Gore/goredubiousrecord.htm
This op-ed seems to offer very little substance. I wouldn’t exactly call it a “tidbit” as much as someone whining about Gore’s press coverage.
OK..
Agreed it is an op ed piece, but there seem to be plenty of facts included and the author has credibility. it did not seem inappropriate to our discussion. Are you saying you don’t believe the college info on Al Gore?
I don’t know that much about it. Nor do I care to be honest. He didn’t win the election, so it’s a moot point. I didn’t vote for him in 2000 by the way. Thought I’d throw that in.
Plus it doesn’t jive with your “Bush is the biggest idiot” mantra. Be careful, you are wandering close to a paradigm shift. Keep your hands and arms inside the vehicle at all times.
The smug. It wafts off you in tremendous volume right now, Amuz. The fact that he voted for Bush doesn’t change his opinion of him, by the way. It could be classified under “Human Error”, if you’d allow Eric the chance to say that instead of assuming it for him. Paradigm shift? He had a brief stint as a member of the Republican party, back in 1998-2000. And he shifted back… Oops! Sorry! Does that not go with your “Eric doesn’t ACTUALLY think Bush is stupid because I can derive that from talking over the internet with him” theme?
I guess you could call stopping WWIII with the cuban misslie crisis, stopping a riot in Indianapolis after MLK assassination and civil rights, medicare, medicaid, and numerous other pieces of bi-partisian legislation fostered and passed by the Kennedy’s squandering, but you would be WRONG!
MUUUUURRRRRDDDDEERRRRRRR!!!!
Two of them were, good call.
Joe Kennedy – bootlegger
Rosemary Kennedy – emotionally disturbed daughter of Joe, given a lobotomy on orders from Joe. Hey, thanks, Dad!
Ted Kennedy – Chappaquiddick and the death of Mary Jo Kopechne
William Kennedy Smith – accused rapist. Acquitted in part because the testimony of three other rape victims was not allowed.
John F. Kennedy – adulterer. And a congressional investigation was about to be launched when he was killed. Seems JFK was having an affair with a woman who was possibly a soviet spy.
Patrick Kennedy – drug addict and convicted drunk driver.
Also if you check your history you’ll find it was the Democrats who opposed the Civil Right legislation of the 1960s
What’s so wrong with being emotionally disturbed?
Nothing, unless your father is Joe Kennedy
I’d like some links and proof as to all of these claims. And concrete evidence, in the ones that could be speculative.
By the way, a person’s personal problems don’t disprove their opinions. Everyone makes mistakes, and just because you don’t like this family doesn’t mean they’re wrong because they have problems.
Apologies- I didn’t see the discussion going on above. However, I WOULD like the articles and concrete proof of all your claims, just for thoroughness’ sake.
Sorry, Igor
As fast as I post the articles you requested, they are being removed from the website. You’ll have to find them on your own – shouldn’t be too hard, the information is readily available.
Amuz, it’s not that they’re being removed, but that all posts including links have to go through a filter.
Put the website names between { } marks.
OK Igor – I’ll try it
Joe Kennedy:
{http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/716/what-is-the-true-source-of-the-kennedy-familys-wealth}
Patrick Kennedy:
{http://www.magic-city-news.com/Doug_Wrenn_44/This_Patrick_Is_No_Saint_And_He_Shouldn_t_Be_A_Con_61896189.shtml}
Ted Kennedy:
{http://men.style.com/gq/features/landing?id=content_5585}
William Kennedy Smith:
{http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0620051wksmith1.html}
You are right and i agree. My point is the same grace is not equally dispensed. Ted Kennedy was a notorious lifelong alcoholic, womanizer and was solely responsible for the death of that poor girl he left to drown. But just try to imagine if that had happened to GWB, do you honestly think the outcome would have been the same?
“Also if you check your history you’ll find it was the Democrats who opposed the Civil Right legislation of the 1960s”
Yes, Democrats from the racist South, worse than the current Blue Dogs, who defected to the GOP, and the South has been red ever since, just as Lyndon Johnson predicted.
Yup, the dems who left and now make up the bulk of the religious right. You seem to quote a lot of dirt, why not be honest — spell it out for the GOP — nah, you won’t do that, because you don’t really care, you just want to make grand one-sided pronouncements of your own moral superiority. Kilo Mike Alpha.
I am no Bush apologist – never claimed to be. I am someone who very tired of what passes for liberal intellect but is in fact little more than school yard name-calling. “Kilo Mike Alpha” is a great example. What profound intelligence came up with that one? Did you make that up yourself? Have you run out of credible sources to cite, logical arguments to make or reasonable positions to defend? I was asked to provide documentation in support of a statement I made about the Kennedy family and I gave it. Sorry it doesn’t fit your ideas about the “lion” of the senate and his family.
You can sit around all day long and tell each other how stupid GWB was/is. But let someone challenge your little pontifications and you get your shorts all bunched up in a knot. I guess when it comes to one-sided pronouncements you apparently think you have a monopoly. The hypocrisy of the left in full bloom.
Also, please tell me which Democratic Senators who voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1964 subsequently became members of the Republican Party. It sure isn’t Democratic Senator Robert Byrd, former Ku Klux Klansman and lifelong Democrat, is it? No he would be the final speaker in the Democrat filibuster of the Civil Rights bill, a filibuster broken thanks to Republican votes.
Ah, those pesky facts…
“…he would be the final speaker in the Democrat filibuster of the Civil Rights bill, a filibuster broken thanks to Republican votes.”
You’re leaving out the pesky little fact about JFK’s assassination, the March on Washington, and the fact that Lyndon Johnson advocated for its passage. You’re also leaving out the fact that the Republicans only agreed to vote for a weaker version of the bill, after intense pressure by the Democrats, who were in the minority at that time.
Yes, indeed. Those pesky facts…
Still waiting for that defectors list…
Chose to ignore the Robert Byrd reference? I can’t say that I blame you. Especially the KKK part.
What about the assassination? I don’t get your point there.
I get the march on Washington. Does that trump or cancel out the Democratic filibuster?
Johnson advocated for the Civil Rights Act passage – good, he did the right thing. Does that mean we ignore the filibuster of the other Democrats? (kind of an inconvenient truth, you might say)
Don’t know about weaker version of the bill etc. Can you point me to a source on that?
Oh, and …. did I mention I’m still waiting for the defectors list, or do you want to change the subject yet again?
If you know anything about phonetics, it should be pretty clear Charlie didn’t think that one up by himself.
By the way, I think Charlie found the debate to not be worth his time- I probably would too, since even I tire of people acting like “the left” is one big, ominous entity that is unified on all issues and that every member is to blame for every other person who identifies with the party politically’s faults.
“The hypocrisy of the left in full bloom”. Haven’t you ever heard of generalizing, stereotyping, and the like? It’s not exactly healthy for an intelligent, reasoned debate.
Precisely my point. Thank you for helping me underscore it. By the way, baseless accusation and school yard name-calling are also not proven winners in resoned argument either.
It is an interesting point of observation; Did you ever notice how those on the political left become disinterested and “tire” when someone actually calls them on their trite, bigoted, and insulting rhetoric? I have also observed this “lack of interest” when facts are presented that don’t comfortably fit with the smugness of their viewpoint.
And I think the genius of Charlie F. goes beyond phonetics. It’s a brilliant combination of acronym, the NATO phonetic alphabet and a red-neck insult. We are clearly dealing with a language pioneer. wouldn’t you agree?
You hate liberals and their intellects, correct? You have put it so eloquently. Why do you get so furled when they hate you and your intellect? Why do you want a “fair” chance given to you, when you automatically do not agree with and hold contempt for every liberal response? You criticize the left for generalizing Republicans and comparing everything to Bush, and then you go and do the exact same thing by generalizing all Liberals and pointing to a KluKluxKlan member, who coincidently was also a member of the Democratic party more than 40 years ago (point being it was 40 years ago). You seem very well spoken, but thats about it. You cry “no fair” and then proceed to do the exact thing you detest about your opposition. Get constructive, maybe try and teach instead of taunt. your arguments are old, as are your political approaches.
Facts? What facts?
“William Kennedy Smith – accused rapist. Acquitted in part because the testimony of three other rape victims was not allowed.” — Courts don’t operate according to the law? Liberals aren’t innocent until proven guilty?
“John F. Kennedy – adulterer. And a congressional investigation was about to be launched when he was killed. Seems JFK was having an affair with a woman who was possibly a soviet spy.” Are you in competition with Oliver Stone?
Facts? You wouldn’t know a fact if it jumped up and bit you in the backside. The FACT is that you throw out a bunch of meaningless data, only against the political side that you disagree with. You have a lot to say against the Kennedy’s but nothing on their achievements. Why is that? Your indignation is suspect. You declare JFK as an “ADULTERER” yet you ignore the GOP adulterers because it doesn’t fit your slant. Again, I don’t have to prove anything to you, you ignore reality anyway. Your posts prove that you are pursueing an agenda and reality doesn’t have meaning in your life. so once again Kilo Mike Alpha — and no, I didn’t make it up, in my time in service we knew a lot of morons like yourself, hence the the adaption of the only way to respond to stupidity.
hahahahaha……
OK, you win. I was so hoping you wouldn’t notice I was a moron. And I tried to mask my stupidity but you saw right through me.
“You wouldn’t know a fact if it jumped up and bit you in the backside”
Who can stand in the face of such faultless logic. I surrender!
When did they start calling mentally challenged people “emotionally disturbed”. The lobotomy was the ONLY option back then. The Kennedy’s can be credited with starting the special Olympics as well, not that a bitter person intent on bashing good people would actually merit that, but thought i’d add it. Don’t forget as you bash the Kennedy’s that your precious GWB was also a convicted drunk driver as well.
Number of drunk driving deaths atributed to GWB – 0
Number of drunk driving deaths atributed to Ted Kennedy – 1
One of the two recovered from his alcohol problem, one did not.
Guess which is which.
Do not judge me according to a liberal standard. I do not hate, but I am passionate about what i believe, just as others who post here. I do not hold specific reasoned and arguable responses in contempt at all. If someone wants to actually make a point, I am willing to engage on that point. I was asked to provide documentation on one of my points and did so.
Are you equally filled with righteous indignation when bloggers “generalize” Republicans? I think not. Do you accuse liberal bloggers of “hating” conservatives and intellectuals? Show me where you have done so. You just like to whine when someone who disagrees with you decides to play by your rules. Sorry.
I was told that all the Democrats who filibustered the 1964 Civil Rights Act subsequently became Republicans and now make up the “bulk of the Religious Right”. In response I asked for a list of those who had done so. I’m still waiting… Furthermore I pointed out that at least one filibustering Democratic Senator, Robert Byrd, former KKK member, did NOT change his party affiliation.
A very good radio commentator is fond of saying, “Facts to a liberal are like Kryptonite to Superman.” I couldn’t agree more.
“Facts to a liberal are like Kryptonite to Superman.” – The same thing could easily be said of a US conservative. Or did I imagine the thing where they claimed that the British mathematician Stephen Hawking would have been left to die by our NHS, despite the fact that he himself says that “I am only alive because of the NHS”?
Huh?
Not sure what you’re talking about, but I’m curious. Can you point me to an article or some other source on this?
RE: Special Olympics – Traces back to a summer camp started by Eunice Kennedy Shriver in 1962. Kudos to her for what she started. But that doesn’t change the other facts as stated. Now, Wicket, try going back and reading the entire thread here before you get all bunched up and hurl any more accusations.
“Kennedy bashing” Is that a term for anyone who doesn’t drink the “Lion of the Senate” Kool Aid?
I don’t hurl accusations. I merely point out when someone’s being an ass.
Which is it — is Bush a “regular folks” guy, or is the scion of a wealthy family, graduate of Yale and Harvard?
You had the country for eight years. You used up a city and got your war. You even got to let the Islamic terrorists kill a bunch of blue staters. Please let the grownups clean up now.
-Snorts at grownups and feels terrible-
Anon, usually the reason for us not talking about how stupid Bush is is because we’re all tired of talking about how stupid Bush is…
We get it, he has a weird accent and a strange childish mentality.
Ahhh….the “grownups” were in charge of congress for the last 4 or so years. Why didn’t they “clean up” then?
Four?
Math needs a bit of checking, Semper… Other than that, I can’t even begin to explain the massive ineptitude of politicians.
It’s just so severe that if you saw a politician with morals and half a brain or a Mandrill (a monkey)- cow half-breed, you’d think the politician was more of a physical impossibility
Amen on that brother.
I stand corrected. 3 years this November for the Senate and House.
Simple, He failed to conquer afghanistan. Regardless of morality, the sheer tactical strength our nation would of gained by owning that region would of been astronomical. It would allow us to have a safe oil rout into europe, or at least a rout under our control. As an oil man, Bush knew this, and yet failed miserably to either crush or convert that particular region. He neither made them fear or love us as gods, as leaders, or even as people. All he did is manage to do is piss off a bunch of jackasses with a death with.
“Death with”? Is that like the movie with Tharleth Bronthen?
*snort*
who’s charlotte Bronson?
No no, that’s Charlotte Bronte.
Complex issue requiring a complex answer. At least you actually gave a reasoned answer complete with explanation. I’m sure you could find other presidents with whom to take exception regarding major foreign policy and military decisions. Why does this one particular issue qualify him as the dumbest President?
It doesn’t. But his pattern is disturbing, failed businesses, failed military policy, failed economic policy, failed interrogation policy. “And you know it makes me wonder, What’s going on under the ground, hmmm…”
Wait a sec, Charlie, I’m starting to pick up a pattern here. There’s a word that seems to be repeated here…
Well, once again it makes a cute and easy to read little blurb on a website, but you’d have to share your criteria for judgment before anyone could possible simply nod their head in agreement. What constitutes failure, according to you? To which businesses are you referring? Which economic policy? And failed interrogation policy???
It is a pattern only inasmuch as you have proclaimed it so. it is a world of immense complexity and ours is a government of shared responsibility. Is the congress lily white in all that you survey?
Arbusto/Bush Exploration/Spectrum 7 Energy Corp and others. The economic policy that led to the biggest financial collapse since the Great Depression. The pursuit of interrogation techniques that have been outlawed in the US Army since the Phillipine Insurrection of 1902 and which we prosecuted japanese Officers for post WWII.
I am taking this comment very lightly simply because you use “would of” instead of “would have” which would have been correct.
oooooooh BURN!!!!
Someone call the grammar police, this person didn’t use proper English!!!!!
Please. Calm down.
because intellegnce always = wisdom
Geography fail.. Afghanistan is land locked.. try again.
YES! YESSS!!! FINALLY someone realizes that a bad prez isnt deemed so according to his political views!!!
Also Freemasons were targeted
Well, wouldn’t eleven million be included in a figure of “6,000,000+”?
Hear Hear!
GODWIN WIN!
+1 Godwin point for you!
collect ten and get a free mustache!
Amen.
WIN!
Any yet we didn’t hear people say that much when it was Bush under fire. It seems like all the ideas that Bush had were bad. President Bush did many great things for America that never got reported on. Now it seems that President Obama’s bad ideas never get reported on, only the ones that looks good on paper.
And what about how bad the war is and how many people are dying over there – still? Nothing in the news about it now – but it is the same war – the same people fighting. Seems like the only people who want the name calling to stop are the people that believe that Bush didn’t do any thing right and Obama is just misunderstood.
That’s not right. I had quite a few people say this exact thing to say to me, and even if you didn’t, that doesn’t mean it wasn’t happening. And the bad things are indeed being reported alongside the good things. The good things are then shown next to them, but you only notice what you want to notice. I can see unfavorable articles and favorable ones.
And yes, the war is still going on. We need to leave them in a condition in which they can support themselves, as opposed to fostering hatred. Not to be needlessly confrontational, but I do believe that on the first day of operation of Iraqi Freedom we killed twice as many civilians as died on 9/11. That is why it was reported upon poorly. We really screwed the pooch.
I disagree with your view of the war in Iraq. There was a reason it was reported that way (to make it seem as though we were just leveling towns full of women and children). Right or wrong, it’s a WAR and innocent people die in war, regardless of who is waging it or for what reason. Doubly so when the people you’re fighting use civilians as human shields.
Cluster bombing massive cities because Sadaam MIGHT have been there is generally considered a massacre. Or at least, me and my liberal views see it that way.
I felt the same way about the bombings in Bosnia during Clinton, but that may be my Conservative views talking
We’re not getting the full story from Iraq or Afganistan, and never will. There are a lot of security issues that go along with reporting on a war, and I think that the way the media handles it is shameful. On both sides.
Honestly, it’s impossible to cover a war in depth and to show all views, motivations, and actions. The coverage is shameful, I will agree, but the media is trying to cover it with what information they have, and I respect that.
And I’m not defending the military actions of the Clinton administration. I’m not a fan of the Bosnian bombings.
Can you name a single city that was “carpet bombed”? Not that I am defending the war, but don’t present false information for emotional impact. Someone did that and that’s how we got there in the first place. There’s plenty of REAL points to be outraged about.
Baghdad. Day one. Cluster bombed.
Attacking civilian populations is a traditional means of fighting wars for the United States government. It can be traced back to the Civil War with (but not limited to) Sherman’s march to the sea. Don’t bicker about who cluster bombed what because it’s part of every war this government has led us into. Wherein the problem lies is megalomaniacs occupying the White House and the fools who put them there. Condemn Bush and Obama for they are the same. Both lie–quite transparently–and both perpetuate needless wars.
Your wrong. The war isn’t needless. It may be the ultimate failure of human interaction, it may be harmful to “children and other living things” it may have been mismanaged, it may be extremely costly in more than monetary terms, but, unfortunately, it is not needless.
*you’re — or you are*
See my earlier comment below — it’s obvious that you don’t understand the difference between cluster bombing and carpet bombing. Intelligent criticism FAIL.
Cluster bombs are evil, whoever is using them, for whatever purpose they are used. The unexploded ordinance is wrapped in bright yellow, making it look too much like a toy to children.
/rant
Not that I disagree with you, but that’s really not the point, is it? The point is that Wolverines seems to be asserting (it’s difficult to tell since he’s confusing terms) that Baghdad was covered in cluster bombs early in the war, when that’s obviously not true.
The Ruskis used to actually drop toys in Afghanistan, so that kids would pick them upp. Horrible stuff.
Another thing is that most of the world has signed a treaty banning cluster weapons, since they lead to such massive civilian casualties due to bombs that dont detonate on impact and stuff. But not the US, nor Israel.
Instead, the US has voluntarily adopteda proposal to drop the level of unexploded munitions below 1% by 2018.
There are certain situations in which cluster bombs reduce the number of civilian casualties, and so the best approach is to make them safer rather than eliminate them entirely and switch back to more deadly munitions. Fortunately, most of the signatories to the Wellington Agreement don’t find themselves in this situation.
It is obvious that “Hrothgar” belongs to that elite bunch who can’t say anything good about America…
However, all presidents are more or less “puppets” of those serving under them! It is how they serve that makes them great or poor & & those who pulls the strings can drop one or pull incorrectly… Just because one is a good orator doesn’t make them a good president!!! So be aware of those who “speak with forked tongues”!
That’s a broad leap in logic.
Not with stilts, Charlie!
First off, “carpet bombing” (which is probably what you meant) and “cluster bombing” (used to deny access to a relatively small area) are two completely different things. One is worthy of outrage, the other is not. Are you a spoon-fed moron, or just hilariously misinformed?
In other words: cite or it didn’t happen, idiot.
DHOTIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!! *Hugs* I’ve missed the crazy raving-ness. I dare say the novelty will wear off again, tho…
I’ve missed you AC. That is, if you were the same AC who liked putting tildes on comments in GraphJam
Probably guilty. Tho I don’t remember doing it on graphjam: just here…
Oh. I must be mistaken…
Doesn’t matter. Hi anyway.
Let’s see how you arrived at this viewpoint. First, you decide who you hate (Bush and the military). Then you ascribe to them horrible characteristics (the desire to kill innocents). Then you fantasize that they must have done evil things since you know that they are bad, supporting this with enough technical lingo to make your contention seem plausible (cluster bombing). It would have been truly terrible if the U.S. had used cluster bombs on civilian targets. But they did not. I certainly hope that this does not generally characterize liberal thought, as you suggest, although it is easy to find similar examples.
Don’t forget the magnesium…
so the London bombings and 911 were not the despicable acts of cowardice and terrorism I believed them to be? After all it’s war and innocent people die in war so that makes it all alright then I suppose. Same for all the suicide bombings sure they kill a lot of innocent people in order to kill a few enemy soldiers but that doesn’t make it a particularly evil thing to do, after all it’s a war and innocent people die in wars.
Or is it that mass killings of innocent civilians is only wrong when your enemy does it and not when we do it? That is sheer hypocrisy ask yourself would any suicide bombing you ever heard of suddenly become less terrible an act if the bomb that killed so many innocent people was dropped from a plane instead?
To be clear I supported the Iraq war in the beginning and frankly still think it was a good idea and had it been done right everyone would be better off, sadly the people in charge really screwed the pooch. Regardless the point I`m trying to make is that yes innocent people die in wars but when you wage war with such complete disregard for the lives of innocents you become no better then the people we are fighting.
As for the human shields argument frankly it does not hold up those “human shields” were innocent people ask yourself if they had been using American prisoners instead of Iraqi prisoners as there shields would you still think yeah go ahead and bomb em anyway? no you would insist that everything that could have been done to preserve the lives of those innocents was done. We should demand no less just because those people were foreign citizens they were still innocent human lives.
Perfect point *bows
Well said.
Yeah, I agree with that.
You win this thread.
The only thing I must point out is that 9/11 happened pre-war. 2001 while the war started in 2003. They did not declare war on us… just decided to kill a few thousand of our people to make a point. However the bombings in London were after the war started over there.
Does it make it better? No, not at ALL. But 9/11 was not an act of war… it was just blatant killing.
Nope. In their eyes, it was a holy war. So your point is useless.
The London bombings, the 9/11 attack on the U.S., and suicide bombings are all DESIGNED to kill innocent civilians. The planning optimized the loss of human life. In contrast, the U.S. has spent a fortune on the military to design the most accurate (rather than the most destructive, which would have been a lot cheaper) weapons in order to minimize the loss of life, especially of civilian lives. When the U.S. conducts war, innocent people die because of our inability to conduct war perfectly by destroying strategic targets without ever killing civilians. Nothing about that makes it “right”, but it is a sad and tragic corollary to the unfortunate necessity of violent conflict. I can see no reason to describe these two perspectives as morally equivalent other than to falsely argue that the U.S. is inherently evil, and thereby to create the satisfaction that some people find in wallowing in self-loathing, even if it is undeserved.
Mmm, collateral damage…
I would never try to argue that the US is more evil than other killing countries (which, in one way or other, includes just about every country on Earth, I think). However, I find it a bit … unpleasant, chilling, scary (I can think of the word in Swedish but am at a loss finding the right English word, sorry), when those who fare war try to sell themselves off as less of a civilian killer because it was “just collateral damage”. The person who just had a bomb dropped on them doesn’t care if it was intentional or not. Okay, so mostly they won’t care about anything at all again. But still.
So, anyway – not arguing against you, I think your post made some sense, just adding on another nuance to it.
Wow, you might need to actually start watching the news then, unless you consider the healthcare reform one of Obama’s good ideas. And as for the great things Bush did tearing up the Constitution isn’t exactly a good thing for America, were just as threatened now as we were then. Bush never found bin laden did he.
Finding Bin Laden isn’t as easy as most people make it sound. There are networks of caves all over Afghanistan, and the country of Afghanistan is 251,772 square miles. It is a physical impossiblity to search every inch of it, and we don’t know if he fled to another country.
And healthcare reform is a good idea, just not in the way Obama wishes to implement it.
Our HEALTHCARE is fine. Our insurance and tort, not so much. But I agree with you generally.
And didn’t Bin Ladin die a natural death holed up in a cave with his men? At least, that’s the last I heard on it….
P.S. How long has Bin Ladin been on the FBIs 10 Most Wanted List? Doesn’t that pre-date Bush by like, a lot?
Bin Laden’s death is a possibility, but we do not know if he is dead or not. I’m not sure if Bin Laden has been on that list that long, but 2 minutes of research could probably solve that one.
And I disagree, our healthcare system is not particularly good. We’re something like 26th or so in the world’s hierarchy of healthcare. The insurance system is not a good system at all, and the fact that the board can choose which life saving operations are necessary makes me think that we have a terrible system for getting needed care.
Naturally, letting the leeches that inhabit our government bureaucracies would be far better than letting HMOs do it…. I also seriously doubt that the 25 countries that supposedly have better health care achieved such rankings through socialized insurance or a British-like National Health system. Don’t get me wrong, I love our wasteful, destructive, criminal, incompetent, engorged government. I just don’t want them running markets. That’s all.
Well… based on the % of healthcare spending that disappears into beaurocracy the HMOs are doing a far worse (an order of magnitude worse) job than government overseen schemes.
You don’t fix bad government by getting rid of government. It’s sad so many ppl have been conned into thinking that way.
You want to replace bad government with strong accountable government… not by whittling it away into weak corrupt government beholden to corporate interests.
As it stands, our health care system is profit motivated. The insurance companies are all profit motivated. Our health care system will remain “broken” as long as the main motivator for providing medical services is money.
That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. It is that word you are so afraid of that is responsible for all the medical PROGRESS that takes place, or do you honestly have no comprehension of how economics works? You want an END to all R&D now, you want an END to innovation and an end to all incentives to provide the best innovations possible in this world, eliminate the profit motive altogether, eliminate competition, and watch everything go straight to hell. As it always does. This is as close to economic law as you will ever come. How bizarrely we have been taught to think – up is down, black is white – and people like you just never bother to figure out or educate themselves as to why what they’re saying is patently absurd.
So you’re saying that MONEY is the best reason for medical advances? Not helping people? If this is true, then I’ve lost all faith in humanity. If you take the money factor away from doctors, then yeah, you might lose some doctors. The ones that are motivated by greed. But you’d keep the good doctors. The ones motivated by helping people. I’m not against doctors getting paid well. I think the doctor who delivered my first two children deserves all the money he’s earned. He’s a fantastic doctor. But I’d be sickened if I learned that the only reason he’s a good doctor is greed.
There is more to the healthcare industry than doctors. I think Annie was referring to the equipment and drug industries mostly. Without any incentive to make money there would not be the drive to make better drugs and equipment. If the government ran telephone companies we will all still be using rotary dial phones lol.
Again, what about the desire to help people? Are you saying that without money as the main motivator that innovation dies? Is that really the motivation for innovation? And there’s nothing wrong with making money for what they do. But making money at the expense of people’s well-being is just sick. It doesn’t have to be that way.
It’s not that money is the main motivator, but even a doctor has to feed his family and feel that doing what he loves to do is worthwhile. I know I wouldn’t stick with a job very long if I wasn’t getting some type of monetary reward out of it to provide for my and my family’s future, no matter how much I loved it.
Doctors are not getting $50,000 per amputation as “kick back” (hur hur hur) money. They are not being grossly overcompensated for what they do. Their money goes toward student loans, malpractice insurance, living costs, and other things that the rest of us have to worry about on a daily basis, along with some things that we’ve never heard of. There are some doctors making bank for what they do, but they are highly specialized and have worked for years to do what they do the best. Your average healthcare provider is making what he needs to live, and not much more.
Taking out the profit margin would kill healthcare as we know it, because it would keep qualified doctors from being able to get into a system that needs them. When the government has the purse strings, then the government will tell medical students “Hey, we dont’ need any more neurosurgens, we need some general practitioners. So stop what you’re studying even though this is what you’ve wanted to do your whole life and go into THIS practice, because we need you here more. Oh, and by the way, now you’ll only get paid the bare minimum for you to live, because we really can’t afford this either. Even by taxing the shit out of the rich, who are moving to the Caymens. No, we don’t know why they’re moving, but gosh darn it, they are.”
Actually the US is nr 37th in the world in the last big study, it was either the WHO or the UN, one of the two. And yes, almost all the countries before it on the list have “socialized” healthcare in some form since youre basically the only industrialized country not to have it. Youre apparently fantastic at treating cancer but not that great at a lot of other stuff. You do wonderful work on the rich, theyre very healthy, but the poor and middle class are a lot worse off than in most other western nations, your infant mortality is closer to the third world than the first apparently.
Well since the drug companies stay private, and the machine manufacturers stay private theres still a profit incentive.
I’m just curious how those numbers stack up when you take into account the number of illegals we have taking advantage of our medical care without the preventative care associated with their problems, and other factors that will skew the numbers? Last time I checked, I see people coming HERE for medical care, not leaving.
Absolutely, but those who come are either from a third world country (Mexico and most of South America) or filthy rich flying in from overseas. And like I said, youre very good at treating the rich.
We are also very good at treating the poor. That’s where a lot of the problems lie, the fact that we’re treating the poor who came over the border because they knew they wouldnt get good treatment in Mexico or wherever else. Because they aren’t able to pay, insurance rates and costs go up for the rest of us, and because they didn’t use the type of preventative care that most of our citizens use beforehand they skew the death numbers. The new healthcare bill has no provision to prevent illegals from using it, so I don’t see that situation doing anything but getting worse in the future.
I’m not arguing that we shouldn’t take care of those who can’t take care of themselves. I’m arguing that the numbers you’re using to get the US down to only 30th or whatever in the world are skewed.
But if you examine your infant mortality rates and a bunch of other statistics, youre NOT great at treating the poor. The highest figure Ive seen on the amount of illegal aliens in the US was 12 million, in a country of 307 million people thats less than 3 percent, and theres way more than three percent difference between the US and the rest of the world in quality. But youve got more than double the cost per capita for healthcare, and evidently not as good quality.
facts are here: http://www.who.int/whosis/en/
And also, Im willing to admit that there are huge flaws in the system we have in Sweden, there is need of a lot more money to healthcare, some of the waiting times are far too long etc, but a lot of americans simply seem to not want to admit that there is anything that theyre not the best at, nothing in the world. Its a bit depressing, to find the worlds most powerful nation so insecure that it cant admit its flaws.
I never said doctors shouldn’t make good money for what they do. In fact, I said that they should. You wanna keep a profit margin? Fine, but you’ve got to reduce the costs *across the board*. That’s not gonna happen if the health care industry is left to regulate itself. Whether its Obama’s health care plan or something else, the government is gonna have to regulate it somehow, and do quite a bit of it. Just like every other industry in America that has gotten out of control, those in health care are not gonna regulate themselves, and they won’t think twice about making you and me take up the tush. And it’s gonna start hurting them the same way it hurt the housing industry. How many people end up going bankrupt on medical bills? How many people have credit ratings in the 500s or lower because they can’t pay their medical bills? It won’t hurt nearly as bad as the mortgages because hospitals and doctors still get paid by insurance, but they’ve gotta be missing those dollars nonetheless.
And I still think that money is the main motivator in health care today, which is why we’re in such sorry shape.
To Rando, you remind me of an awesome bit of intelligence someone mentioned on another forum I was reading… “Progress comes from RESPONSIBILITY, not regulation.”
No, you fool, I’m saying they aren’t POSSIBLE without money available to FUND them. That’s where those profits go and that’s why we have the highest standard of health care in the entire world, bar none. That’s why people try to come here, not leave here. Good god, this is not rocket science. Wake the f*ck up.
“You fool”
I haven’t heard that in my imagined version of your accent in aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaages….
That would be great, if you did have the highest standard of health care. Check your facts, the US is great at cancer but is lacking in a lot of basic stuff like infant mortality, lifespan etc
Higher rate of maternal mortality (death of mother during childbirth) than any of the other ‘first world’ countries.
We have the highest standard of health care in the world??? I had no idea the rest of the world was doing that badly. I feel so sorry for them. The numbers pretty universally say that our health care is lacking. This. system. is. broken. Whether you like Obama’s health care plan or not, what we have now is a joke.
We fall short of Germany, Japan, England many other “first world countries”, Anniee. Check your facts and wake up.
You go, Aniee451!! Half of these college grads are so fixed on what the socialist schools teach them they have no idea about health care as they just finished using their parents’ insurance! Com’on… this so-called revised & new health care system is targeted for the illegals who come here for free childbirth, etc. If the poor, LEGAL Americans could get help, it would be nice. In WA State you can apply for the WA State insurance program, which is great for the poorer folk…
YOU wake the f*ck up. This is what Canadian public Health has developed (Cut-and-paste alert, and no, I left out the stuff from before Universal health in ‘66):
-AIDS drug 3TC
Developed by Francesco Bellini, Gervais Dionne, and Bernard Belleau, founders of Montreal-based BioChem Pharma, 3TC is today recognized as the most widely used drug in the world in the treatment of HIV
-Discovery Of The T-cell receptor
“The progress of science, especially medical science, is driven by the way we understand mechanisms and how they work,” says Dr. Tak Wah Mak, co-discoverer in 1984 of the T-cell receptor and the gene that produces it. Understanding how T-cells work has helped in developing new drugs for fighting infection, autoimmune disorders, cancer and post-transplant rejection.
-Safer Stem Cells
Researcher Andras Nagy has found a way to safely generate stem cells from adult human skin cells, opening the possibility in the future of using a patient’s own cells to reverse damage caused by disease, injury, aging or genetics and cure diseases whose treatment costs the Canadian health-care system billions of dollars a year.
-Able Walker
The walker was patented by Norm Rolston in 1986
-Prosthetic Hand
An electric prosthetic invented by Helmut Lucas in 1971
and, most recently,
-Percutaneous aortic valve replacement
The technique is performed under local anaesthesia and light sedation. “These patients had been rejected for surgery because they had a one in three chance of dying. So we took them on and our mortality was much less than had been anticipated.”
“This minimally invasive technique is promising and will hopefully affect clinical practice not only in Canada but around the world. What is particularly encouraging is the short amount of time that it takes these patients to get back to normal life.”
NWB, I have a suggestion for you. Read the bill, or at least the sections pertaining to the immigrant population.
Maybe those gosh darned college graduates are onto something, if you’d like to check your facts or cite sources.
If you expect people to go through 4 years of college, 4 years of med-school, 4 years of de facto indentured servitude, emerging with mountains of debt, solely because, “they want to help people,” you are horribly naive. On the reverse of that coin, people who are motivated purely by profit won’t jump through all the hoops to become a doctor when they could be a lawyer, or engineer, or biochemist, etc. People become doctors because they can be well compensated for doing something they like to do. Remove either factor, and its just not cost effective to be a doctor anymore.
Profit-driven health care is sick. Period. There’s nothing wrong with making a living. But when money becomes more important than helping people in that field, then there is something wrong. There are fields where the motivating factor HAS to be wanting to help people or else it just falls apart. I have never said let’s make doctors poor like the rest of us. I’ve said money can’t be the motivation behind health care. And anyone who says money is what makes health care great or innovative has stolen another tiny bit of what little faith I have left for the human race.
I worked in a hospital while going to college. I saw how hard these people have to work, it’s not easy and then the sadness of watching people suffer and die. Old people, children, babies. These people need to be paid and paid well or NO ONE will want to do this work. Yes, it would be a nice thing to have helping people in a health care job be it’s own reward but it’s a little bit pollyanna-ish to think that would suffice. You also run the risk of under paid staff abusing patients through neglect if you don’t have the best and most well paid staff. This is just my 2 cents and no I haven’t read this entire thread so sorry if this has been said a million times… Profit and reward DOES motivate us to do better, doing something worthwhile is it’s own reward yes but that is the rare individual that is willing to do something like that 24/7.
I see a difference between having good salaries for people employed and being profit-driven. A profit-driven company would prefer to keep salaries down to have more profit, wouldn’t they?
No, not necessarily. To get the best workers and to keep them happy and make them stay you would try to pay them more than competitors. You see that going on now with sign on bonuses for health care workers. There will always be good healthy competition for workers in a free market.
Anniee! I come back after 2 months and find you cheery as ever! Have you ever been to La Tomatina festival in Spain? You should totally go. You don’t have to bother talking to people you don’t like. You can just pelt them with rotten tomatoes and rip their shirts instead. Maybe you’d be less pissed off afterwards, I don’t know.
Nicely put, AC.
Hello, I don’t know if I know you. Pleased to meet you.
AC, may I please re-introduce the former Eric-in-STL? Rando, re-meet AC. Cookies anyone?
Oh wow. Hi Eric!
ANd maybe I shouldn’t be eating cookies at two in the morning…
No chocolate chips, so no caffeine. Have a cookie, pre-snooze!
Oh yeah. I forgot that you don’t know the new name. LOL
It’s so wonderful to see AC back from her European Vacation and I am not seething in jealousy in the least.
And a [LINK] for Anniee…
That was a very educational article that I’m sure Anniee will completely dismiss.
Yeah, it’s the “educational” part I am sure she’ll have a problem with.
“Oh Washington Post. Yeah, that’s a great source. Here, look at this blog I found that has numbers that say undeniably that 100% of Americans will die in house fires if Obamacare gets passed! Now THAT is someone who knows their stuff! It also says that Obama routinely has sex with the family dog! I fvcking knew it!!!!11!!! *froth froth*”
I want to die of a botched abortion! Can’t you READ?!
Froth? Did I miss the latte cart again?
Yeah, but we don’t bother getting our froth from some lame ass milk. We go straight to the froth source and get it from Anniee. We buy in bulk and save!
*hugs her Starbucks and whimpers* But I don’t want Anniee froth. It’ll make me crazy. Also, I think that might be just the teensiest bit unsanitary.
So… should I be honored when Anniee calls me “froth boy” all the time when we butt heads?
It’s people like you that make me hate humanity.
the most ridiculous thing i have hever heard
frosty paws
ice cream for dogs
it is curious that 9/11 is NOT one of the crimes they have listed for him
Usama Bin Laden is wanted in connection with the August 7, 1998, bombings of the United States Embassies in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya. These attacks killed over 200 people. In addition, Bin Laden is a suspect in other terrorist attacks throughout the world.
On most political points, I’m republican. But Wolverines, I agree 100% with you on this one. Healthcare reform is a GREAT idea…but the way Obama is going about it isn’t the way to go.
I may not agree with some of Obama’s ideas and views, but “we” need to stop the name calling and absurd paranoia regarding Obama.
Thank you for constructive discussion, as opposed to the general level of debate that goes on in these comments threads.
I say we need reform, due to that fact that my dad is a doctor on a medical board for such an insurance company. He’s fat paid, but he comes back with horror stories everyday.
I gotta agree with you lot, but my advice is, don’t reform it into something like the Birtish NHS unless you are SURE it will go well. While the NHS is good, its understaffed and under-equipped. I’ve been on the waiting list for 2 years just to get some braces.
The NHS is a great idea, alot like Communism, but it hasn’t worked out so well, alot like Communism. And also, forgive me as my American goverment knowledge ain’t so good, but do you get a refferendum on major things like reform and stuff?I mean public ones, like everyone person in the U.S votes? Or is that just for the Presidential Election?
That’s just for Presidential Elections. Somehow, we got the idea that in America, if we have local elections and send people to Washington to represent our ideals, they will stick with those ideals and do the right thing. Instead, they get to Washington, realize it’s a boy’s club where the champaigne flows like water, and decide to stay, no matter the cost to the country.
And, to keep it fair, that’s true no matter political party you vote for. Republicans & Democrats alike pull that stuff. I’ve voted for Democrats in the past who I want to strangle now for turning into Gutless Weak-Kneed Pencil-Necked Men. LOL
Oh, I didn’t mean it was one particular party that did it! Far from it! It’s pretty much all of them, and their little dogs, too. Not just Rs and Ds, Independants and anyone else who is touched by the simpering, clammy hand of Washington.
I think thats my strongest argument against first-past-the-bar elections when you have a set district and a set congressman, it makes it near impossible to start new parties so you end up with extremely few options, the US and the UK are perfect examples where the UK has three major parties and the US has two.
We won’t get to vote on the health care reform. Some things, mostly at local or state levels, we get to vote on. We don’t get a lot of say in stuff done at the federal level. Congress and the president do that stuff, and we just hope it works out okay for us. LOL. That’s in general. I guess there are exceptions.
Ok thanks… I always imagined the USA as a big free country wehre everyone had a say in everything. Instead, it seems that certain people lie, get in power, and break all the promises they made to the people.
While in Switzerland, it looks like a huge law-obiding goverment controlled place, but they have referendums on everything. I mean everything! Our President only lasts a year, so they can’t put any-long term policy into place. Instead we have PEOPLE power! It fails after a while, mainly because there are at least 100,000 things to vote on a year.
And why don’t you just kill those people in congress who break thier promises? A little accident here and there, who know what might happen?
Because money is power here. If you’ve got the money, you’ve got yourself a congress seat. Plus, many times, a name will go a long way. In Missouri, you can almost guarantee yourself a bright political future with the last name “Carnahan.” There also aren’t term limits to Congress like there are to the presidency. Some congressmen have spent decades there. Once someone gets that rooted into their congressional seat it’s damn near impossible to uproot them.
:O
Then you should put limits on congressmens terms! You do it for El Presidente, so why not for los Congressmenos? Or will money stop you again?
The people in Congress get to vote on their own congressional terms. If they put that particular vote to the people, they’d probably have 1 year terms and that’s it. It’s definitely not a perfect system, what with the inmates running the assylum and all.
Yeah, Congress will never agree to that. Finally, something Democrats & Republicans in Washington agree on.
That and their pay-raises of course.
Actually, term limits would probably require a Constitutional Amendment, which is no easy thing get done.
Hold on now, Rando. Several members of the Carnahan family have been in public service and have earned the respect and affection of their constituents. I’m a Missourian who is a big fan of the Carnahans, and will campaign for Robin when she runs for the Senate.
Hey, I wasn’t dissing the Carnahans. I campaigned for Russ. I’m proud to have voted for Mel AFTER he died. Russ is a bit wishy-washy on some things. I don’t have anything against Robin, I don’t think. The name Carnahan usually guarantees a bright political future for a reason.
“Thank you for constructive discussion, as opposed to the general level of debate that goes on in these comments threads.”
“I say we need reform, due to that fact that my dad is a doctor on a medical board for such an insurance company.”
Did you REALLY just insult our level of debate and then say “My dad is a doctor, this is anecdotal proof”?
Are you an idiot?
Republican too – sick of the party frankly. Sick of politicians worried about re-election and not seemingly worried about representing its public constituents. Tired of both sides trying to tug me this way then that. Time for elected officials to stop talking above us or down to us (from either party) and listen.
As for name-calling – the problem is that I agree, name-calling isn’t solving, nor will it, any issues. So long as either side validates name-calling we’re finished before we start to make a difference.
Finally, unfortunately – while I agree comparing someone to Hitler is ridiculous until someone kills 6,000,000 plus people guilty of nothing but being ‘different’ – is it appropriate to wait until someone kills that many to label someone what they are? I’m not suggesting anyone is Hitler but Hitler – but a complacent attitude EVER is exactly what allowed Hitler the power and opportunity to kill all those folks. The key to my feeble way of thinking is to be prepared to learn from the past and take necessary steps before another Hitler can be empowered.
Is Obama or was Bush equal to Hitler? I don’t believe that but the argument can certainly be made they both (Bush and Obama) have taken steps similar to those Hitler did to grasp the power he ultimately had to possess in order to kill innocent folks who disagreed with him.
Printing money indiscriminately to cover debt that is already not backed by much (so far as collateral is concerned) to the degree these last two Presidents are responsible for is just too frighteningly similar to printing deutsch marks and flooding the global economy with the specific intent of crippling same – I’m not calling anyone Hitler – I agree it is sophomoric at best – I’m only suggesting we need to keep a close watch ALWAYS – we don’t want to say wow, we shoulda recognized some of the same warning signs before all those folks were killed.
FWIW (I know – now you’ve got all the reason in the world to call me a nut-job, loony, racist et al – whatever).
WE CAN’T WAIT UNTIL THERE’S ANOTHER HITLER TO GUARD AGAINST AND QUESTION ACTIONS THAT APPEAR TO RESEMBLE HIS. We must keep all Presidents in check (without calling names) and say so when things that are happening are wrong – citing precedent seems to be the only way to say something and keep our leaders in check.
True, but that doesn’t mean we should drown them out in town halls, when someone is trying to be civil, trying to advocate your right to the first amendment by taking away someone else’s. However, Hitler actually gained peoples’ faith and belief in him by doing great things for his country’s economy. I know, he was an immoral, impossibly horrid person, and no country should worship it’s leader as infallible like that, but just because someone does something that Hitler’s done it doesn’t make them the same person. Hitler was, despite his MASSIVE moral failings, an extremely intelligent leader. I’m not trying to defend the Holocaust in any way, shape, or form, just that saying someone is doing the same things Hitler would have doesn’t necessarily mean they’re doing something horrible- it could just mean they’re trying to help fix the problems we have, and it may damn well not mean that they are as much as a horrid, dreadful person as he was.
The racism, the eugenics, the holocaust, were all part of the global (at least within all “developed countries”) zeitgeist too. Hitler wasn’t quite as nutty as he appears today.
Arr, that reads as if I am trying to defend him. I wasn’t. I am trying to say that: every person, at any time, must look at what’s going on in their world. If we compare leaders today to Hitler, we’ll let them get away with far too bad shite just because “at least they’re not as nuts as Hitler”, forgetting that in the 1930s race biology was widely considered to make sense. :p
Bush tore up the Constitution? It’s interesting that you bring this up in the thread about whether “Bush is Hitler” because it has the same mindless group-thinking behind it. I suppose during the Bush years there was no freedom of speech, since liberal commentators couldn’t criticize the government in public, no freedom of the press, since newspapers couldn’t print bad news about the Iraq War, and no freedom of assembly, since Code Pink couldn’t have protests in front of the Marine recruiting station in Berkeley. And Bush got his way on everything, ending a woman’s right to choose to have an abortion, privatizing social security, and securing a lasting Republican government to lead the U.S. for the next century. Tore up the constitution? What nonsense!
Nonsense indeed! Bush Jr didn’t tear up the constitution! Everyone knows he wiped his ass on it!
He didn’t get away with as much as he wanted to, but the Patriot Act went a fair way to squishing it into a tight little ball
good point…so, enlighten me. What, if anything, did Bush jr. accomplish?
Increased aid to Africa, especially with respect to AIDS. Except for the condoms of course. But I respect any increase in that area. (lefty liberal, here)
I respect condoms.
I don’t really feel anything with condoms…I mean ABOUT condoms. About. That’s what I meant.
I like fist ‘em. Good times.
Wait, what?
I like *TO* fist ‘em. You know, stick your fist in it all the way up the arm?
Oh okay. I was kinda confused there for a second.
I have a hard time thinking after a long day of talking to stupid people.
-hugs charro- so you come and talk to us
You’re not stupid bitter one! Neither is Rando, froo, Jane, Max, Tygor, Charlie, Danbala, suicide_blonde, Eds, DWN, pitty, LG, shortright, the list goes on. Much love to my PK friends!
Love you right back!
bitter troll loves everyone, and his bitter bitter beer
*loves* ^_^
Bow-chicka-…oh. Wrong kind of love.
Or is it all the right kinds of love? *dramatic soap opera trill*
*sniffle* No love for Ivan? See? Atheists are now the most hated group. *wanders off weeping like a girl*
*loves Ivan*
-loves on ivan, anally-
*loves Janie back*
*kicks bitter in his backside* Naughty troll! Charro! Your troll will NOT leave my heiny alone! I’m worried about that boy…
Ivan, I love you! I just couldn’t remember everyone’s name. My secret shame is being dain bramaged from years of drug and alcohol addiction.. But I love you. And sorry about bitter. bitter! Get over here and love ME anally, damnit! I love all of you! *hugs*
-pounces and snuggles charro with smoochies-
*hugs* I knew that charro. I was just being a typical needy male. *blush*
Ok, Ivan. But don’t joke about being hated for being an atheist, my mum is atheist and I love her to pieces! *hugs* I’m not an atheist, more.. spiritually agnostic. That’s my own term.
*snuggles with bitter troll, after prying him off Ivan’s ass*
I’m a Christian and I still love Ivan…like a brother, yo. Don’t get any ideas.
We love ALL OF YOU!
Both of us!
Well, all NINE of us if you count HIS friends tooo. -Points to own noggin-
Just kidding.
I’m not schizophrenic.
Yet.
Love you back, bro. I’m not worried about you being interested in my ass. Nobody can SEE my ass. Bitter troll has it “covered”. *sigh*
Excuse me…is that eu de trolle you’re wearing?
bitter troll is konfused…
kayne west said George bush dont care about black people…
could kayne be wrong??
Bush was under fire? You mean that he actually participated in his generation’s war and didn’t really hide out (part time) in the part time Air National Guard?
In order to fly fighter jets for the Air National Guard, you go through all of the same training as for the full time Air Force, about 2 years of full time schooling alongside your Air Force counterparts. You have to be pretty smart, understanding such things a mathematical description of supersonic airflow, physically fit to handle the rigors of aerial combat, and have excellent judgment to be allowed to operate multi-million dollar, high performance aircraft, sometimes in situations where you are visibly representing the nation. There is an element of danger, since, on average, a few dozen people lose their lives doing this in peacetime training every year. If you’re in the Air National Guard, you are subject to being called to active duty and to reporting for combat. Serving there was an honorable option. Even if Bush chose it in order to avoid a greater likelihood of fighting in Vietnam in some other capacity, as seems likely, an indictment of him on this count would apply even much more greatly to the many people who avoided that war by college deferments and other means. Do we really mean to belittle so many of our fellow citizens?
That’s all well and good, but Bush signed up for a military service… the folks in college, didn’t.
Right. So Bush was not dodging nearly so much as those who took the college deferment, since he was taking some chance of being called to active duty and Vietnam, whereas those taking the college deferment were completely exempt. You’re making my point for me, although somehow I suspect you aren’t meaning to do so.
I looked the dates up in Wikipedia (tried to post a link, but PK ate it). George W. Bush joined the Air National Guard on May of 1968. He graduated from college in spring of 1968. Which means that Bush joined as soon as his college deferment was over. Sorry fantomflyer, but you are incorrect.
V.G. he also quit in April of 1973, 3 months after active combat troops were removed from Vietnam — things that make you say hmmmm.
Well, we COULD get into another debate about Kerry also, but really, let’s not. Truth is, I don’t doubt for a moment that Bush was ’speculating’ about our involvement in SE Asia, and he probably had prior knowledge from his dad about when the U.S. would leave the area. At the time, a lot of people were trying to take the easy path without actually dodging the draft. It could have backfired on him, but with his dad in government service, this wasn’t likely.
True, old buddy, but I respect someone who was in-country more than someone who figured out how to stay out, even if in-country was a REMF, he was still there.
I agree, Charlie. The comment about Kerry was really meant tongue-in-cheek. I don’t want to revisit THAT debate again, really, I don’t!
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McCain has it all over Bush in that respect.
I might have voted for him in 2000.
During my brief attempt at being Republican, I was hoping for McCain before Bush won the nomination.
“my brief attempt at being Republican”
Hah.
That’s the first laugh I’ve gotten out of PK for quite some time now. Reminds me very much of when I tried to be Christian. ;p
It was a short affair, with one presidential vote that will haunt me forever. By the time the war in Iraq started, I had come to my senses. Never. Again.
Blah, blah, blah. So he got his pilots license. Spare me the “element” of danger — let’s see, go into a combat zone, risk enemy fire, explosions, etc or drive a sports car REALLY fast. fmr pres Bush is MA” H.E.R.O. Give me a break!
In this case, I agree.. a war hero he wasn’t..
Bush allowed 90% of all Americans killed by terrorism under his watch. He instituted systematic torture of innocent people. He took us from record surpluses to record deficits. And let’s even get into the supreme idiocy which was the Iraq War. You and I must have very, very different ideas of what constitutes “great things.”
1. I fail to see how Bush was any more responsible for 9-11 happening than his predecessor; he didn’t “allow” it to happen, it happened because our intelligence agencies and immigration agency had their thumbs up their collective asses for far too long.
2. Waterboarding fewer than 10 people does not constitute, “systematic.” The people who it was done to were far from innocent, being either leaders or assistants to leaders.
3. The surplus to deficit issue is far too complicated to discuss in-depth here, but it bears mentioning that we managed a surplus when the economy was booming, and started running deficits during a recession (and then continued spending through the recovery and into the next recession, granted).
I’m no great fan of Bush, but it irritates me when people get all foamy-mouthed over him for spurious or fallacious things. He was not a great President, but he was certainly not our worst.
Which is not true. The warnings very many and came from many sources.
I don’t believe that Bush is responsible for it, but I do not mind pointing out that 9/11 was the new Pearl Harbor which the neocons in their blueprint of Sep 2000 called out for. 9/11 provided exactly what they needed.
…and yet no one put 2+2 together in time to warn anyone effectively. You seem to be assuming malice when incompetence is far, far more likely.
The argument against our immigration policy stands; ten of the 9-11 hijackers were here on expired visas, doctored passports, or violated other laws, all of which should have led to them being deported before 9-11. Problem is, INS (now 2 agencies, ICE & INS), didn’t and doesn’t check to make sure people leave the country when they are supposed to. In fact, the majority of illegal immigrants in this country came here legally and overstayed their welcome.
Bush is more responsible because he was President for nine months beforehand. That’s what “in charge” means.
There is no possibility you would be making the same argument if the Party affiliations were switched.
Ok…So Obama is responsible for the crappy economy and high unemployment…as he has been president for 8 months now. STFU and try and get smarter. You sir are an idiot.
Don’t call people idiots if your logic doesn’t follow. What Anon is saying is “This recession started during Bush’s administration and the 9-month economic decline and 9 months before that started occurred while Bush was in office.”
It’s not Obama’s fault if we catch him, at the very least, TRYING to clean up the giant dookie that is the economy. He’s trying to fix it, but he didn’t start it. You, sir, made a dumbass point.
Your right. The economic decline started while the Democrats controlled both houses of congress. I stand corrected…I guess.
WOW! Bush allowed 90% of ALL AMERICANS killed?! You mean in 1999 there were 3 BILLION American citizens? HOLY SHIT!
You don’t remember that? It was a tight squeeze. Bismarck had a population of 10.7 million that year.
Bismarck, NORTH DAKOTA?! My word.
Yeah, then Bush allowed 90% of Americans to be killed, and I think there are like 27 people left in Bismarck now. The massacre was especially brutal on the people of North Dakota.
Poor North Dakota.
I can’t believe I am going to do this but….Here it goes…In Anon’s defense (that hurt) I believe he was refering to 90% of americans killed by terrorists. Please excuse me while I go throw up.
*hands over the alka-seltzer*
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It’s ok, it was for the greater good. You’ll feel better in a couple of hours.
Do.. you.. mean that 90% of all Americans killed during Bush’s term were killed by terrorists? Cause, you restated what he said.. Which is 90% of Americans were killed by terrorists (during Bush’s term).
Look, I know what he thinks he was trying to say and I was being snarky. Way to ruin the joke
…and 7.2 million fertile women.
Handmaid’s Tale come true?
That book was creepy on so many levels.
Your advice is worth every bit of what we paid for it… thanks.
LoL WIN. Comment FAIL.
True dat!!
As in, this lol makes sense
Finally – someone talking some sense – not only does this type of name calling lower the quality of the political discussion (to about a 1st-grade level), it minimizes the horror of what Hitler did by turning him into a caricature.
I believe that was Mel Brooks’ plan all along. He wanted to turn Hitler into a joke to take away from whatever power he might have once had.
All I want is a little piece…of Poland.
It’s Springtime for Hilter!
*tosses flowers*
You must read a lot of TVTropes….or maybe have watched Mel Brook’s “The Producers”
The latter – I love Mel Brooks movies!
Winter for Poland and France!
Were marching to a faster pace
look out, here comes the master race!
(absolutely classic stuff)
“Don’t be stupid; be a smarty.
Come and join the Nazi party!”
Love that movie.
I was born in Düsseldorf and that is why they call me Rolf:)
OT: I likes your nickname. ;p Are you a kålrot?
Haha, indeed I am cabbage…;) (Kålrot for you non-Swedes out there, if you exist on the internets)
Are you a flygande byxmonster?
No… En kålrot is a swede! At least that’s what I’ve been taught…
Sorry, I am not famililar with a flygande byxmonster is. I mostly wear a kjol anyway. ;p
Oh thats rights!:P comletely forgot about that one.
Cabbagehead:)
Kjols are mainly worn by ze females and scotsmen, which one are yah?! huh?!?
I only wear skirts when I graduate from things, its a principle of mine
Hmm, mainly worn by, yes. Men in skirts are a delight to the eye.
I am, technically, female.
Technically?
Very technically.
Haven’t you seen the crew cut, TAR? By the way, loving the new initials.
Although, she does have a vagina, that kind of makes up for any masculine hairstyles…
Technically, indeed. My gender gets questioned so often I have kinda settled for being technically female but practically just a difficult person who apparently is asking for aggression by not being feminine enough a female. ;p
-Grins and giggles his little head off-
If it helps any, Danbala, whenever I have a substitute in Science they come up to me and my female desk partner’s desk and say “How are you ladies doing? OH! Sorry!
Haha.
Disturbing people’s cushy gender specifications can be fun (as long as they don’t get aggressive about, of course), and/or heartbreaking – I feel sorry for little kids who are already so stuck in their views of How It Should Be that they can’t accept that a “girl” could look like me.
Yeah.. With that skinny little stick figure and one big eye, you barely look human and nothing like a girl.. Einsturzende Neubauten……
Godwin’s Law!!!!!!
It’s like a reverse Godwin’s Law. The argument actually STARTED with Hitler and has evolved from there.
Evolved, or DEvolved? Is there anywhere else to go when you start with Hitler?
There’s nowhere to go but up. Even the redundant health care debate we’re having is a step up from Hitler.
I don’t think we need to wait until millions of people are gassed before we declare our leaders acting inappropriately. I’d hope we could be critical of them before that point was reached.
Not that the comparisons are valid in these cases, but damn, I’d prefer they were discussed before genocide rather than after.
oooh snarky comment, but you missed the point. We shouldn’t be “name calling” (especially in comparison to Hitler) before anything seriously wrong has gone down.
And you seem to have missed my point as well. Something seriously wrong shouldn’t have to be past tense before we can be critical of it.
I agree that name calling isn’t the best choice. However, the spirit of silencing opposition is it’s own brand of frightening.
and what exactly is seriously wrong in your OPINION? No one is silencing the opposition, or even trying for that matter, it would be impossible to do so. You’re reading too much into the LoL, your demeanor screams republican, it’s not a good thing.
Speaking of name-calling…
is calling someone a republican name calling now? I’ll have to remember that one.
Speaking of suicidial blondes, did you hear the one about the mirror at the bottom of a pool?
By your own admission, being a Republican is not a good thing. Hence, name calling.
my mistake, if someone was a republican and I said “you are so republican” to them regardless of how I meant it I would think they would say “thank you” if they were proud of what they are. I guess in my young mind name calling is only when something is taken as an insult, my fault from coming from a generation where being called “dork” “n*gga” and “b*tch” are considered terms of endearment.
Thank you for your opinions on the matter I will now start yelling “REPUBLICAN” to anyone who cuts me off in traffic.
Do you not read what you write? Or do you just spout shit hoping for a reaction? You definitely said that being a Republican is not a good thing. Does that mean I can call you a slut, but really mean you’re virginal?
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What you wrote WAS intended as an insult, no matter how much you try and say otherwise.
I guess I just spout shit, but did you read what I said? I did say that being a republican is not a good thing, but that is purely my opinion, it doesn’t mean it’s right or true, and it doesn’t mean it’s “name calling”. Insulting? Yes, I see what you mean, but not name calling. Republican is not universally seen as an “insult” (or is it?) “slut” is definitely name calling though, no matter who/what/where, but if I really was a slut I’d guess I wouldn’t have much to say about it but I’ve grown past those days so *shrugs* man, I’m sorry for pissing you all off, I guess I smoked too much weed today. I’ll quit being so republican now.
Actually, I did read what you posted, but all I heard was WHARGARBL. At least we know what the end result of smoking weed will do for you.
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FWIW, I am a Republican and I don’t consider it an insult to be called one. However, there are those of the Democrat persuasion that would want to kick your ass for calling them one (the same as calling someone a slut or flipping them the bird.)
its not so much calling us a democrate but how one can say it, say it like its an insult, like we are all a bunch of unshaven dirty smelly tree humping fools who are scared of a hard days work. well..that just annoys us
Hey, man…let’s not jump to any hasty conclusion about the weed!
…wait, but I am an unshaven dirty smelly tree humping fool who is scared of a hard day’s work. Did I screw up somewhere?
And don’t forget otter-scrubbers!
well someone has to scrub the otters
I need someone to scrub my otter. It was playing in the oil spill again.
You didn’t screw up, Rando.
I am too. SO MANY TREES, SO LITTLE TIME!
I don’t think you’ve smoked enough weed today, actually.
YOU’RE RACIST!
OH MY GOD I AM?!?!? WHEN DID THIS HAPPEN?!?!?!? IS THERE A CURE?!?!?!?
cheers! I’m off then
Smoke more weed! That’s a cure!
hahaha yay Charro you made me laugh again, I did just smoke a bowl, that probably helped, but still
now now, neither democrate, republican, liberal or conseritive is an insult, or should be now. we can get along if we try…now lets all have us a sing song hmmm?
Kum Ba Yah, my friend, Kum Ba Yaaaaaah…
Michael row your boat ashore..
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Reminds me of church camp and a youth!
*as* .. gah!
when you and the priest would snuggle close and roast marshmellows in the same sleeping bag?
I’m reminded of a youth too.. A youth named Jesus.
No! The priest smells of cheap wine..
Socialist on the other hand
OMG. You sound so bloody American, it makes me embarrassed for you, poor thing.
Calling someone American is namecalling? It all depends how you phrase it.
I disagree, and you are a wanker. Have a nice day.
(can you tell how I phrased it?)
Oh, phrasing can not make the difference between how a label is perceived? Interesting concept.
I was disagreeing to me sounding so bloody american, quit sidebustin, geeze what is with people?! LoL
“what is with people?!”
Good question. I don’t know, but a majority of the posters here actually manage to have good conversations with each other, despite differences of opinion. If you find that a lot of people are being ornery towards you, might it have more to do with how you come across, than with the people in question?
ok now I know I’ve smoked too much weed today I thought you were a different person from the original who insulted my being american, you in fact were not sidebustin but responding to my comment, thank you.
Well, I actually did try to make some sort of point, albeit possibly a kind of childishly aggressively formulated one.
truce
I haven’t said a word which could lead you to believe I am a democrat or a republican. That would primarily be because I am neither.
What’s wrong right now? There is merit in the idea that the spending we are doing to “lessen” the damage of this recession could in and of itself put us in another just as we’re recovering naturally from this one. The consequences of this, recession after recession with little or no recovery time, are signifigant and in the worst case scenerio deadly.
As I said, calling Obama the new Hitler over this is absolutely incorrect and foolish. Criticizing opposition simply for voicing such concerns is equally foolish, in my opinion. The free and healthy exchange of ideas is critical to the health of democracy. Let’s keep ideas alive, even when they’re wrong and we don’t like them. The freedom of the people to be wrong and vocal about it makes our society stronger than countless others.
S’okay, Shushnik, someone was just looking for a fight.
I was not looking for a fight, quit sidebustin
I retract this comment, I was looking for a fight, I just didn’t know it yet
unfortunately for me, and luckily for you, my computer just completely erased everything I had just typed and I have no desire to sit here and re write my response to your opinions however much I disagree with your wishy washy answers, switching from comparisons not being valid to name calling being incorrect and foolish, from thinking people are silencing opposition to being ok with criticism of opposition. I never said anything was wrong with criticism either, if I thought so I wouldn’t be so blatantly criticizing you!
But I would like to clarify one thing, you may not have said anything to lead me to believe that you were a republican but your demeanor gave me that feeling and I was stating that, it was also my way of clarifying, and I am wearily suprised that you are not one.
I have a feeling even your computer thinks you’re an idiot and was trying to save you from proving that point.
*snort* Nice one Eds.
I don’t mind Democrats, as long as you don’t get all batshit crazy like Pelosi or Frank.
But, Eds, I AM batshit crazy. At least, that’s what all these pills are for…
You have pills to make you batshite crazy? I need some of those! I am far too levelheaded at times when I don’t really want to be.
Try some LSD.
Awww I’m hurt bueeyed. But I’m not a Democrat.
And what Eds said WAS funny, sorry if you don’t see it that way.
Oh. YOU DEMOCRAT SPAWN OF SATAN SCUM!
Ok, you’re right. I’m not supposed to laugh at others. Unless they fall on their ass. I mean…
no charro you not democrate! you now part of the bitter troll politikal party
the bitterarians
A vote for bitter is a vote for sanity!
Bitter for Prez! Vote for Bitter!
*wants to cook in whitehouse kitchen*
A vote for sanity? Fvck that shit. What else do we have?
We have LSD, Rando.
I’ll pass. I’m batshit crazy enough already.
Hrmpth.. More for me.
I agree, outstanding form Eds!
Just because you’re a republican doesn’t give you the right to call me an idiot, and anyhow wouldn’t it have stopped me on my other idiotic posts? You sir, have no depth to your accusation.
It does when your actions clearly say you are one. I think you need to refocus your perception and pull your head out of your ass.
my head is right here on my shoulders thank you very much for your advice though. I am certainly not an idiot, who’s the name caller now?
Me.. and to be honest, I’m just fanning the flames (without the help of weed I might add.)
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To be honest, I have read some of your other posting around here and really didn’t have any beef with them. I just thought it a bit over the top by assuming someone could be a Republican without any proof.
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I will retract my claws now and let you press on with pride.
it was just a feeling really.
and you should try it with weed, it makes it more interesting and easier to get off track…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….we were talking about squirrels, right?
Can we have some clams?
Nipple clams!
Oh, hang on. I got something wrong again, didn’t I? :/
English is a retarded language, I agree.
Squirrels, moose, it’s all Bullwinkle to me!
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I haven’t smoked weed in over 30 years, but hey, maybe it’s time to give it another try. I don’t think I want the pills that Charro has.. I’m a non-batshit crazy Republican and I like it that way!
No no, the pills are to make me un-crazy. The acid is to make me crazy. Silly Eds.
Pfft. I’m fvcked up enough in the head without drugs. I think if I tried drugs, everything would just seem…normal. Sad really.
Reality is a crutch for people who can’t handle drugs.
Reality is for people who can’t handle drugs..
Drugs are reality on people.
Now I want drugs. Damnit, where did I leave that LSD?
Drugs are a reality for people who can’t handle crutches!
well crutches are for drugs that cant handle people!
…wait what?
Crutches are really useful for whacking people while on drugs.
No, of course there is no merit in that idea. It was proposed by a Republican. You’d think after eight years of the Bush Economy, someone would figure out that Republicans are always wrong about this stuff, but, well, some folks like being wrong.
And a lot of people say they aren’t Republican, then vote straight party-line when the elections come around (if they vote at all). Smart people can see the pattern after a while.
Our economic problems go back 30 years or more and are a result of nasty synergistic effects amongst both GOP and Democrat policies. Laying all the blame on Bush is like Enterprise or Hertz blaming the most recent driver for a car’s engine going out; they might have been goosin’ it a bit heavy, or ignoring the Check Engine light, but odds are the thing was going South already.
As much as I couldn’t stand Bush during the last 8 years, I do like that analogy.
Stop it. You’re making us Democrats look like retards with all that partisan crap. We don’t need any super frothy Democrats giving the Republicans extra firepower.
I agree entirely. Egotistical plutocrats that seek prestigious positions of power over the lives of others deserve no quarter when it comes to criticism, name-calling, rude gestures, ridicule, etc. Since no humble productive member of society concerned only with his own peaceful and non-coercive endeavors would have any desire to be president, we can sleep soundly at night knowing that our hateful epithets for presidents are rendered unto them justly.
Hey, just cause I’m bitter that Pluto isn’t a planet anymore does’t make me an egotistical plutocrat.
Pluto will always be #9 in my book.
I agree that we should be able to call a spade a spade, particularly in regards to those who govern us, but this particular caption isn’t exactly about that. There are literally people carrying posters of Obama with a Hitler mustache. And before him, there were people carrying pictures of Bush with a Hitler mustache. This caption is just saying we shouldn’t compare these men to a man that heinous, no matter what we feel their individual failings as leaders might be. That’s all.
The thing is, the parallels between the Nazis and the Bush Administration (and between the Nazis and the Republican Party) are truly frightening, and I am hardly the only one to notice this. Right now the Republicans are playing on the fears of the ignorant to get them to interrupt town hall meetings on health reform, never telling them what’s really in the bill; the Nazis prayed on the fears of the ignorant and sent goon squads to meetings of their opponents to break them up and browbeat those who wanted to hear what the other side had to say. The Republicans are trying to slander Obama’s birth and say that he isn’t a “real American”; the Nazis used the same techniques to say that their opponents were not “real Germans” and, therefore, had no place in Germany. The Republican administration of the last so-called president sent “enemies of the state” to Gauntanamo and other secret prisons without the right to be represented by counsel or to communicate with the outside world, and without trial, and kept them there for indefinite periods (they’re still trying to!); the Nazis were using concentration camps as early as 1933, shortly after Hitler came to power: no trial, no lawyers, no press coverage, no communication with the outside, and no right to a defense for the “enemies of the state” sent to prison. So I agree that the Hitler reference is overused and that it’s certainly bullshit where Obama is concerned, but it’s dead on (no pun intended) in reference to Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, etc., and the current Republican Party.
Yes, let’s just throw some gas all over and await the inevitible flame war…
Nice, comparing the Republican Party and Bush in particular to the Nazi’s. I seriously doubt the Republican’s will ever be able to take over the U.S. in the same fashion that Hitler did, so your parallel fails on an epic level. You have just proven how ignorant you really are with that entire post.
PNAC and full spectrum dominance plans.. which are largely hidden from the masses would probably make many egomaniac leaders green with envy.
“Right now the Republicans are playing on the fears of the ignorant to get them to interrupt town hall meetings on health reform, never telling them what’s really in the bill”
Most of the congress voting on the bill has not read the bill and doesnt know what is in it. Your memory is also short. I recall the Democratic party running around saying that old people would have to live off of dog food if the republicans voted to only raise Medicare by 1.8% instead of 2%.
You sir/madam…are an idiot.
Maybe, but I find the fact that they’re blasting the scare tactic of “DEATH PANELS” even more untrustworthy.
“never telling them what’s really in the bill”
Look, I don’t want to depend on either party or the media to “tell me what’s really in the bill.” That’s why, as an actual responsible voter, went to the THOMAS website, pulled the damn thing up, and read it myself. It’s got some reasonably good ideas mixed in with (IMO) some questionable and some REALLY bad ones. I have some pretty strong reservations about how successful it’s likely to be if it’s passed as is.
In general, I’d like to add that generalizations regarding behavior of people grouped by political party (Republicans do THIS; Democrats do THAT) are nearly always gross OVERgeneralizations.
Aaaand, if you haven’t read it, here’s a link to the full text.
Snap!
LOL – *responsible voter* *reads bill*
Excuse me, I just snorted my coffee
“DEATH PANELS” is probably not the most politicly correct name to use but in some peoples minds, me included, a group of people that decide what treatments and drugs will be offered and which ones won’t could accurately be labeled as such. If you want to get really technical about it, there are already “DEATH PANELS” at all of the insurance companies as they decide what treatments and drugs they will pay for. The big difference is how much the treatments and drugs will be cut. I believe that the governement death panel is going to make fewer treatments and drugs available then the insurance death panel. I would also like to point out that if the insurance death panel does not approve your treatment you can still get it if you pay for it yourself, hence the foriegn people who come here for specific treatments.
I’m about to leave for the day but I’ll try to look back later — I’m genuinely curious regarding WHY you think that’s likely. If anything, it seems like it might be the other way around, as the insurance company’s decisions generally seem to be made on the basis of “What’s the absolute least we can do and still keep the customer?”, in other words, attempting to maximize profits; while the government seems more likely to, well, just throw money down a hole as usual.
I agree with you on the government throwing money down the hole lol. I base my belief on the fact that citizens from countries that have government run healthcare come to the US to seek treatment (those that can afford to that is). I also base my belief in that it does not seem possible to maintain the same level of healthcare we currently have when you add 50 million (if that number is real) people to the current system without increasing the amount of services. The insurance companies still have to compete with each other so they are unable to cut too many services where as the government will not be competing with anyone and can cut services as they see fit.
Insurance companies could start by decreasing the obscene salaries their top execs make. No one should be making that kind of money on the backs of sick, injured, and dying people.
True dat, yo.
“I base my belief on the fact that citizens from countries that have government run healthcare come to the US to seek treatment (those that can afford to that is).”
How common is that? Are they mostly trying to pay their way past the queue they’d have to wait in in their home country?
I know I’d hop on a plane to get back home if I got sick while in the US and had a chance to get out. :p
Well, I know a bloke who insists that the Mayo Clinic is the best Health Care institute in the World, well yes, if you happen to be a multi-millionaire who can afford to go there.
Also, private industry is much better at spending the money they have compared to the government. You are correct in your thinking that the government will probably spend more money but that certainly doesnt mean that it will be spent wisely. An example would be the educational system. The government spends more per kid than private schools do but it can be argued that kids in private schools generally get a better quality education than those in public schools.
Keep in mind that our government also has a love affair with spending a dollar to save a dime, and will likely find creative ways to spend lots of money and still deny care. Just look at Disability-based Social Security and Medicare.
Insurance companies don’t want to keep the customer, they want them to die before they have to pay for their chemo.
I spoke up at a townhall meeting BECAUSE I have taken the initiative, read the bill, i’ve done my homework to realize why certain (most) topics and items in the bill will ruin this country, and because I’m tired of how this administration has said one thing and done the exact opposite since day one. This president is no better than the last one.
But no one forcefed me incorrect information, I found the grossly hidden agenda in the bill on my own. If the media spouted off about giving illegal aliens free healthcare, i pulled that section up in the bill to find that statement false. But once again, Obama (like every single other president) says one thing then does another.
I believe there are much more important issues with our economy right now, that if addressed correctly could bring us out of this recession to a point where we could THEN focus on healthcare and if it needs to be reformed or not. And these important issues do NOT include having Americans trade a paid vehicle in for one with payments they won’t be able to afford just to get our “carbon footprint” down and be a “greener” nation. Spending two dollars today to save one dollar five years from now is ludicrus!
I think it’s time Americans take the initiative to make changes instead of ALLOWING our government to force us into those changes. Quit blaming the rich because there are poor. It’s not the rich’s fault there are poor people. And if we abuse them further, we won’t have anymore rich people in this nation to carry the rest of us on their backs.. People need to step up and take care of themselves. Quit EXPECTING a hand out. Quit bitching about things you might be able to change. Quit forcing the rest of us to pay for your transgressions. Take some responsibility, even a little bit, and see how much America as a whole will prosper.
I’m done ranting now, I’ve jumped from too many subjects too quickly…
Oh, rich people carrying the rest of us on their backs. Now, that’s good! How do you think they got rich? On the backs of working people, that’s how.
Been catching up on your Marx, I see. The economy is a two-way street.
A two-way street? Pfft. Maybe with a big median between the lanes.
I worked my way up from nothing to a state of extreme poverty.
Oh you meant *Karl* Marx? Never mind.
My Lonely Heart will be Right Here Waiting. Hold on to the Nights, while I emit a Silent Scream.
Oh, NOT Richard Marx? My bads.
I am not a crook.
Oh, Richard *Marx*? Oops.
Nixon sure stole a lot of bases during his career.
Oh, NOT Otis Nixon? Yikes.
I used to masturbate to a busboy who was rude to me once. What do you think that means?
Oh dear, you weren’t talking about *Cynthia* Nixon, were you?
I think Cynthia totally got screwed in the whole John & Yoko thing. Wait, were we talking about Cynthia *Lennon*?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
OH WOW! Please, I have asthma, don’t make me laugh like that again!
Health isn’t important? Really?
Yeah, you have. You haven’t covered any of the actual homework you’ve done in depth. I don’t have any problem with you speaking and talking rationally at a town hall, but if you’re saying “I spoke up by shouting down the opposition with HEAR MY VOICE HEAR MY VOICE!” Then you’re a f*cking tool.
“Quit bitching about things you might be able to change. Quit forcing the rest of us to pay for your transgressions.”
Yeah, stop forcing us to pay for you breaking out of the mental hospital. You’re not giving any evidence or citations to back up your claims, not quoting the sources that you claim to have done homework on, and you’re ranting incessantly. Couldn’t that be considered “bitching”?
The comparison between Obama and Hitler is more sound than your over-emotional illogical argument against the republican party. Hitler and Obama fall on the same part of the political spectrum (the measure of government control in a society) so the comparison is stating that Obama’s huge spending, czar emplacement, regulation creation, bureaucracy creation, and tax system all consist of the expanse of government power. Your “scare tactics” argument is also unfounded. Hitler used modern psychology to manipulate the people. One of these techniques is the foot-in-the-door effect. Which is where by small increments you put in to effect your plan so as to not shock them away in disgust. First the stars, then the ghettos, work camps, concentration camps, to finally mass genocide. Obama starts with bailouts, “stimulus packages”, conquering private companies, and currently to take over the Health care industry. Also Hitler formed the Nazi youth to inform his administration of any questionalble behavior of their parents. Obama has also asked the children of this once free nation to send an e-mail to his administration if their parents do any thing “strange.” So is it a fair comparison based on politics? Absolutely. Is it fair to compare them personally? No.
And on the personal note I find it extremely arrogant and ignorant for you to claim that I am trying to “interrupt” town hall meetings. You know what those meetings are for? For people to express their views to their representative. The republican party isn’t preying on fear or forcing people to go, they’re standing up for what they believe in and I admire it. And guess what. It’s called free speech which is our right as Americans. So the truly ignorant one is yourself.
As the LOL states (rather correctly I might add), neither Bush nor Obama are Hitler-esque. Godwin fail on you too, jake. Cheese and rice, what is wrong with some of these people?
Obama did NOT tell kids to send an email if their parents do anything “strange.” Where did you come up with that one? Which probably means I’m wasting my time to try to refute the rest of your post, but I do want to say one thing. Town halls are for discussion, for all sides to have a voice. How can that happen if one side is yelling?
with guns
Well, they seem to be showing up at Obama rallies and meetings too, so that works out great.
It’s like all the morons and idiots are attracted to this!
It’s like all the morons and idiots are attracted to this! Obama is no Hitler even if your little delusional little mind thinks he is.
You’re a delusional idiot. Town hall meetings are for EVERYONE to express their views, not a bunch of idiots screaming “HEAR MY VOICE” only.
As much as I despise Bush and the gang, I really don’t think comparing them to a genocidal megalomaniac like Adolf is really fair. The Bush administration did some really underhanded things, no doubt. But Bush couldn’t be as horrible as Hitler if he tried. While I appreciate your liberal spunk, it’s sadly misplaced in this argument. Godwin fail.
Yeah, I am highly critical of the Bush administration but it would never even occur to me to make a Hitler comparison. Nowhere close to being in the same league.
NO ONE IS HITLER…
…cept maybe hitler…and he dont wanna admit it
Dude, even Hitler hated Hitler. He hated Hitler so much he killed him. If only he had been so bold years earlier…
(1) There are “enemy combatants” in a completely non-secret prison, but no “enemies of the state” have been imprisoned. That is complete nonsense meant only to inflame those inclined to addle-minded group-thinking.
(2) The similarities between the Bush Administration and the Nazi’s are as superficial as those between Obama’s and Hitler’s health care plans.
(3) There is every bit as much reason to fear Fascism from the Left as from the Right. It would take only a casual look to find similar similarities of tactics between the Nazi’s and the Left. Look at any time a (even very mildly) conservative speaker tries to talk at Berkeley – the Left comes out in force and chants loudly, drowning him out until he can’t speak. Leftist mayor of Berkeley Tom Bates and his agents cruised town to day before the election and threw away all of the newspapers at news stands that were editorializing against him. The mantras of the Left against Bush were certainly designed to appeal to the naive haters among us.
(4) The “birthers” are crazy, but so are the droves of people who won’t stop harping about how Bush had his wealthy cronies rig the voting machines so that he could win the Ohio election in 2004 and about how it’s obvious that Bush’s people really destroyed the World Trade Center so he’d have an excuse for attacking muslims.
But, just so we’re clear here, as soon as a president *does* kill 6 million, we can call him or her hitler and treat his or her supporters like crap with impunity, right?
As soon as that happens, yes, feel free to tell me “I told you so.”
I think it’s also OK to call someone Hitler when the book burnings and concentration camps start, no need to wait until the 6 million mark.
Hmmm..Tough call.
Did we say death camps? We meant happy camps!
Will there be bunnies?
And strawberries!
wonder what they called hitler before he startered to do that stuff..
Ghengis Khan?
“Mary”. That’s why he was such an angry little man.
He was such an angry little man because was such a little man. We short guys are all hellbent on ruling the world.
They have craft time. And guess what? Craft time has been expanded by 4 hours today. Anyone else’s fingers hurt? I didn’t think so.
Thank you so much for saying what so many of us are thinking!
Amen to this. While I disagree with many of Obama’s policies (and didn’t think a lot of some Bushs’ either), this name calling has got to end.
It is inappropriate, juvenile, uncivil, and it trivializes the evil of Adolf Hitler and the Nazi party.
Looking at these comments, I find it interesting how many people insist that to refer to their preferred president as Hitler is out of bounds, but to refer to the one that they are opposed to is “dead on,” to quote one person.
Welcome to the America of the 21st century. I despair of this country ever returning to civil political discourse.
You had civil Politacl discoures? Is throwing out your original goverment civil?
Jokes, jokes, I mean no offense. But seriously, you Yanks thrashed us in the War of Independance. I just wish there was something that we could say as a snide remark, like a batlle where the Brits wern’t wiped out, or were it wasn’t a British Phyrric victory.
We’re friends now, right? Great Britain, like the US, has done great things and horrible things. We learn from it and move on, trying to keep the best and fix the worst.
Thing is, we “threw out our original government” because we were getting oppressed.
This name calling is now classified as a logical fallacy “Reductio Ad Hitlerum“
ad nauseum.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum
Wouldn’t you have to settle the debate between functionalism and intentionalism for the latter before you could make this exhortation?
If you didn’t understand this question then you truly shouldn’t be saying anything about Hitler and the Holocaust.
Oooh, look who’s a clever cookie.
No, you would not. Regardless of where you stand on the debate, the comparison of either president to Hitler is inappropriate, stupid, and marginalizes the horrors of the Holocaust and the second world war.
Thank you for playing, you smarmy asshole, now go stick your head in an oven before you have a chance to pollute the gene pool.
How would I “pollute the gene pool”?
Why would they not, as you say? Is not the exhortation suggesting that one not call Obama “Hitler” unless Obama decides to kill six million or more people? What could justify this suggestion in your mind? Is it because you know that Hitler decided to kill six million or more people? Then in the same way you have settled the functionalism versus intentionalism debate in favour of the latter just as I suspected you would have to! Is your research on the matter published? Or dost thou begrudge us inquirers thy knowledge, as they say?
Still alive? Too bad. I take comfort in the knowledge that your life must be an empty one.
Well, you don’t have that knowledge but I’ll grant you the belief. Though either way your words betray your sadism.
A little sadism never hurt anybody. XD
yum.
Miss me, did ya? *bites*
Yowz! I mean, um, yessir indeed I did *bates breath*
*wicked grin and huggle squeeze*
*squeeeeze – oops – drool*
Haha, NOMNOMNOMNOM
Using big words does not make you look smart if you use them incorrectly.
unless your talking to really dumb people, who dont know your useing them inkorectly
Yep, eloquence is quite frequently mistaken for intelligence.
I’m sure Bush got this insult much more than Obama, especially since Nazis hated the idea of socialism.
Not necessarily. I do believe that the Nazis were the socialist party. They nationalized quite a few industries, though it paid off economically. It got them out of a recession. It was communists they hated.
Depression, not recession. Sorry.
Just calling yourself a socialist anything doesn’t make you socialist
Look at the USSR. What Hitler was is a fascist, and (I think) more of a corporate communist wherein he took over the private sector and turned it public. I’m sure someone with more knowledge of the history will help me out here, but that’s my understanding of it.
Spot on froo, fascism it is. The basis of left-wing stuff is teh struggle betweeheen teh classes, but Mussolini, Franco and Adolfus were doing the “hey man, the state is like soo much cooler than like… that stuff” and upon that they constructed their little dictatorships. Adolfus was a right-wing corporatist who was heartily supported by the german business elite and so on and so forth and therefore really cant be neither a socialist or a communist, since they dont really get along with the richies.
Myes.
Wasn’t it a step further than just a simple corporatist, though? If I’m remembering right, I believe that Hitler had the government take over and run most of it, adding a new dimension to corporatism that hadn’t been seen before. Or something.
Froofrou, I think you have the correct understanding. Not left, not right. Corporations and society both controlled by the government–and their close buddies. Some of the strongest old German companies had a really nice deal under Hitler–slave labor and so forth.
From my reading, the Nazis had some serious fans among the wealthy in Europe and the US for their ‘law and order’ and union suppression. We tend to mask over that in history–the aviator Lindberg was a Nazi supporter.
Intellectuals from Europe and the US on the other hand were mostly appalled by pre WWII visits to Germany–mostly because they worried about Jewish colleagues, or about workers’ rights.
Nazism is really a mixture of everything bad all in one. I find it difficult to place on a political scale..
So the NAZI party who wer the Nationalist SOCIALIST Party hated socialists ? Do’H!
They signed a treaty against Comintern
the exact name was “nationalsozialistische deutsche arbeiterpartei”
nationalists
socialists
workers
they were “fishing” for votes on full sceme, getting as much votes as they could to overthrow the government. they mixed many ideas and systems to hit the spirit of the time. sure they nationalised some companies …and the krupp-family was one of the supporters.
but quote hitler … i for myself wont listen to people who brought us (humans not only germans) nothing but misery, war, crime,
dishonor …
History fail, retard. Just because you call your party socialists doesn’t mean you are socialists.
CB:
“We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance.” -Hitler
Quoted from p. 224 of “Adolf Hitler”, biography by John Toland, Anchor Books: 1976.
Hitler was a political opportunist and in his early career would use any popular rhetoric.
The policies and government Hitler instituted was not socialist. In fact they were admired by many business leaders in the USA who looked forward to something similar for America.
It wasn’t socialists who plotted to overthrow the US government and replace it with a Nazi style dictatorship. It was big business (the friend and key benefactor of the Nazi regime in germany).
Your claim about Hitler’s party is to be taken over his own claim of it? Which is more credible? He was a political opportunist but you are what? An impartial arbiter?
Neither of the facts (assuming indeed that they are true) you offer helps to establish your assertion that Hitler’s policies were not socialist.
That business leaders admired Hitler’s policies. Are you assuming that business leaders cannot favour socialist policies?
That socialists did not plot to overthrow the US government and replace it with Nazi-esque dictatorship yet big business did. Are you assuming that big business cannot plot to have the same style of dictatorship as a socialist government?
I think you’re a little confused, or you’re a libertarian. Which is much the same thing.
The former is easier than the latter with respect to the making of claims and the proving of them.
Huh. Wait, what?
*snerk*
Hehe, you made the funny, and a snide one.
I hate to say this, but I *think* at least part of what Sqwirk said was right. I haven’t really read anything about big business wanting to created a Nazi-esque government here, but the rest was pretty much correct I think.
Some big business did. Others did not.
I’m guessing that sentiment died off pretty darn quickly. LOL
One thing we can be sure of. He hated liberalism. I could post endless quotes on that…
It may only be because Obama’s only been in office for seven months. Give it time and we will likely see parity.
NSDAP = Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei = National Socialist German Workers’ Party
of course they hated the communists, if that is what you mean by socialism
The Nazis were vehemently anti-union. So much for “workers’ party”. The labor organizers were all arrested and abused by their jailers, early on during Hitler’s rule. Source “The woman behind the new deal: Frances Perkins, FDR’s labor secretary and his moral conscience”, by Kristen Downey.
So not only anti-communist, but anti-union. And anti-workers’s rights, according to that author.
uhh im prety sure people say hes like hitler because he can influence stupid people who never really wake up and smell the coffee, not because he kills
Anyone can influence stupid people. It doesn’t justify comparing Obama to one of the most evil men in history.
uhh im prety sure youre one of them
uh, native americans?
Boy, I don’t remember Bush or Obama killinging 6 million native americans. Considering that there are less than 3 million left before either took office, they must have killed them all twice!
in that case, you would be comparing Andrew Jackson to Hitler. Different century.
Andrew Jackson killed all the native americans, twice?
I thought I was making a joke about the ability to kill people twice. I stand corrected VG. Well done.
FOOLS only chunck norris can kill someone twice!
Chunck Norris? Is this Chuck’s evil overweight brother?
BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHA
Yes, but the bottom part of the caption in the picture refers to “All US Presidents”
THANK YOU! I’m glad someone else is saying it!
This caption, Epic Win.
thanks for this!
I live some 30 kilometers away from Hitlers birthplace and i find this name-calling pretty disturbing (be it Bush, Obama, whoever). What my grandparents told me about the nazi-era sounds quite more disastrous than some healtcare or insurance-reform. even Bush “only” started a war against Iraq and believed it was the right thing, whereas the Nazis had no problems of killing millions of even there own people because they thought they were inferior.
Derdave, I agree with you. The name-calling can be counterproductive. But I love that I live in a country where people can freely express their opinions, ignorant and ill-informed as some of them may be, and I think we need to defend their right to do so.
I understand your point and of course I agree on the importance of free expression of opinion. Although it often seems that not only opinions but factual claims are expressed. If you say “I hate this guy/politician/company” then it is your opinion, no problem. But to claim something like “this guy/politician/company is a convicted criminal” is a slander and would be illegal in Austria (at least hypothetically)
I’ve always wondered, how come the little square mustache is a symbol of evil, but not the comb-over Hitler also sported?
I dunno, but I wish it would switch. Then I could grow the most hardcore facial hair ever.
Because the comb-over is so much harder to do.
I don’t think this caption works.
America (and several of it’s presidents) were quite keen on eugenics prior to the 2nd world war.
True that. And the USA and several other countries carried out forced sterilization of whomever they believed to be ‘defective’ (mentally ill, learning disabled, physically disabled, poor, wrong ethnicity, etc…). But Hitler ended up giving eugenics a bad name…thank goodness.
The genocide was the LAST thing in a long line of increments – increments sort of like cutting costs (posters about how much it cost to keep X worthless person alive, which is *exactly* the kind of thing in the health care bill and in Zeke Emanuel’s philosophy) and it snowballs from there. The first thing the government has to do is seize that power, which is what the bill is really about (read it if you don’t understand what I’m saying.) So no, we don’t have to hold off on the name-calling when we see our country going down the exact same road another country went that led to atrocities. They may not lead to the exact same thing here but they’re going nowhere good, and we get to make those comparisons, especially where they’re accurate. As another, much better lol said recently, “Hey, killing 6 million people was the LAST thing I did to screw up Germany, people.”
How do you work that out?
Currently we have rationing by ability to pay, which would be viewed favourably from a “eugenic” point of view.
A health care bill would moderate (not replace) that with care based on need. This doesn’t mean deciding when or who gets to die (this does not occur in Europe, do some research), but prioritising treatment based on clinical need.
And seeing that the US spends 2x the European average on health the expectation with reform should be for improved care for everyone. America does not get the health care it pays for, the current model is not working.
Sqwirk has a point about the European “method of decided when or who gets to die”. Many Americansthink that because Euthanasia is legal in certain European nations, does not mean we kill them indiscrimatley. I probably spelled thatwrong, so sorry if I did. In fact, the euthanasia clinics in Switzerland have got nothing to do with thier healthcare system!
Sqwirk, this is not a person, It does not have views, it does have an ethos, it does not have a life, or any redeeming qualities. This is a troll, what it has is a strategy. A strategy to get people to reply to it’s inflammatory comments. Do not play into it’s paws.
I think it’s been long since established that I’m not a troll (as though there was anything trollish about my comment to begin with) – but by all means, keep singing that song, fool. Sqwirk is not worth any effort regardless.
I am a pleasing shade of green.
But, do you taste like green?
Soylent green is made of Sqwirk?
Does that mean that Sqwirk is made out of soy and lent?
Troll is a title that can come and go, and yeah, when you start comparing the president to Adolf fvcking Hitler, then that’s trolling in its most basic form. Godwin says hi.
Really? I don’t remember that meeting. Was this before or after your repeated racism. Maybe it was around the time you were posting drunk. Or maybe it was during one of your childlike binges of profanity laden crazy rants. Nope. No trolls here…
“I think it’s been long since established that I’m not a troll”
How do you define “established” here?
I don’t remember voting on that.
bitter troll is offended that calling jerk who tries to start trouble over interwebs is called troll
that raceist…you all raceist
YOU’RE RACIST!!! I’M GONNA CRY!
well your racistter!!!!!
Melodramatic troll is melodramatic.
But, but, she’s so KEWT when the little gobs of spittle coat the corners of her mouth!
She sounds like Keith Olbermann!
Or Mark Levin!!
Or Eric Cartman! But less cute. And unfunny.
I wish she could be more like Towlie.
Dude. I have no idea what’s going on.
Maybe if you got a little high…
Bush was responsible for the deaths of a million Iraqis.
A million? Care to cite that?
Exactly a million too. Not 1.1 million, or 1,007,500…a million.
I thought it was a million and two.
CITE OR IT DIDN’T HAPPEN JANE!!!
Give me a minute. I just have to go write a blog about it and I can cite that.
*waits*
Dude, you can do that?
*writes blog about hot Jane & charro lesbo action*
That makes it real, right?
Why do I suddenly have memories I didn’t before?!
I don’t know but you were fantastic darling!
I have the power supreme!
…
Giggity.
I HAVE BURRITO SUPREME
Oh you were maaaahvelous as well, my dear.
That’s quite high…
A quick search shows that the number is actually right around 100,000. Granted, that’s a still a large number, but war is never pretty.
Geez, Eddie, what’s a decimal place or so?
Picky.
This particular war, though, had a questionable (if not outright fictitious) casus belli, served to line the pockets of numerous shady contractors with good connections within the republican party., and was detrimental both to the lives of U.S citizens as a whole and to the lives of Iraqis as a whole.
It’s true that war is never pretty, But this one was particularly ugly. I personally think that Bush, and others of his administration, are criminals. I can think of no other words to describe the depth of their deceit.
I agree. Bush and Co. were planning this war BEFORE 9-11 happened. 9-11 became their excuse.
Yeah. Hint #1: Bin Laden wasn’t in Iraq.
A quick search for me said the number is between 50,000 and 1,000,000+. It all depends on who’s counting, and how they define the deaths being related to the war.
Weird, because every search I did said 50k-100k.. what was your criteria?
Critter-i-aye? Never heard of them critters…
Nah, but I started by checking out what Wikipedia had to say on it.
A median seems to be 50K – 150K.