Pentagon launches $200 million study
Breaking News – Pentagon launches $200 million study to find out why Iraqis want the US to leave.
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They’re so angry about this American’s inability to use an apostrophe?
I hope these morons can shoot better than they can spell.
Considering the fact nothing is misspelled, and the only error is a minor grammatical one?
Yah, I hope you realize that more than likely, even if you’re not an american, the only reason you have any freedom at all is because of these ‘morons’.
Moron.
How is a country halfway across the world a threat to the ‘freedom’ of Americans…? It’s not like they were going to come and invade your country across two giant big-ass oceans either side of you and take away your ‘freedom’. Waging war on another continent is not defending oneself.
Apart from that it’s still disgusting to make jokes like that about shooting at people.
*cough* Normandy *cough*
Hm. Well, I never knew Normandy was in America, and that Iraqi Soldiers landed in Normandy.
Learn something new every day.
Captain Wow was pointing out that we invaded Normandy to liberate Europe from fascist Germany.
Your comment Hellbound, dishonors those who did die defending your freedeom.
I find it interesting that many Americans would say that the US were involved in WWII “to liberate Europe from Germany”. You don’t think your leaders at the time actually recognised the Germany-Italy-Japan expanionsism as a threat to the world in general? That the fight was actually for continued American freedoms as well?
I think we fought b/c Japan gave us one helluva black eye. That and we hated Nazis.
I always thought it was b/c Japan gave us one helluva black eye and we didn’t give a shit about the Nazis until we retaliated against Japan.
(We were sending the allies aid before we joined the war, though.)
Only refrigerators. Remember the line in Pearl Harbor “We’re making refrigerators while our enemies make bombs.” The sad thing is that prior to 1939 we were also sending Japan a ton of crap (well they were paying for it). Well see we hated the Nazis, but really didn’t care enough to do anything about it. Sort of like Darfur.
We were isolationists and thus didn’t care what was going on over there. We joined The war not just because of japan but the general threat to every persons freedoms.
We are in Iraq to remedy a situation which we exacerbated back during the Cold War. We helped keep Sadam in power and could not let it stay so, because he had become a threat to our other allies In the area. His human rights violations just prove that what one can do with power and no Checks and balances.
Our imperfect system of Government though still an experiment it is the best known to man for it tries To give equality… but can only be as good as the people that participate in it and only exist because there are men and women standing ready to defend it.
this stuuf you all are talking about is too long. ABBREVIATE!
hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia
i can spell lol.
whoops didnt mean to misspell stuff sorry.
That belief is from middle school history. You need to read deeper and much further.
While you are there, you might want ot read about the Civil War as well.
Rax: Umm please enlighten me. I would love to hear your version of Histroy which is above Middle School History (oh and before you go there I’m well schooled in the history of war)
I suppose it’s possible. With the number of people jumping to correct me, I’m gonna go out on a limb and say I may not have the whole story as my knowledge of history has gone stale over the years.
No, Eric, your knowledge has gotten tastier with age.
**opens Erics skull and sips some brains** Nope not ready yet, needs about another three years for proper fermintation!!
Close but not quite right. We still wouldn’t have given a shit about the Nazis post-Pearl Harbor, but Germany declared war on us after we declared war on Japan. The sequence was:
1. Japan declares war and attacks.
2. The US declares war on Japan.
3. Germany declares war on the US.
4. The US declares war on Germany.
To the best of my knowledge, the US has never declared war first on anybody. Unfortunately, the US no longer declares war at all any more — we just invade and kill a lot of innocent Panamanians so we can arrest their dictator without bother to declare war.
Actually you got it somewhat backwards:
1. Japan attacks AND then declares war.
The rest is correct, but we were about to declare war on Germany. There’s a reason we had a lot of our Atlantic Fleet ready to mobilize. That and our troops were mostly on the East Coast vice the West Coast.
UUMMM say what about Panama? I do believe there was declaration of war.
Okay, you’re right. US history was about 15 years ago for me, so I’m a bit rusty. I skipped it in college. LOL
-Whispers-
Are you smarter than an 11th grader? -sings cheerfully-
Tyler: Didn’t you win “Smarter than a 5th Grader”?
ILPB is right about what actually happened in (1), but IIRC that was a Japanese diplomatic b@lls-up; that was supposed to happen was that the formal declaration of war was supposed to be delivered after the carrier air wings launched wave 1 of the Pearl Harbour assault, but before they actually attacked. However, someone got their time zone calculations wrong.
Paws: It is what they intended, but I intended to mow my front lawn last night, didn’t happen, so yeah the grass (weeds) is (are) still too long, and my wife is still pissed. So intentions are good to a point.
you do not know a lot about history do you.
Eh, so-so. I haven’t taken US history in about 15 years. I got pretty good grades in it. I did okay on the AP test, not spectacular, got a 4.
ESPECIALLY because we hated Nazis…
And YOUR comment and this war dishonor servicemen who joined to actually defend the country, but were instead used to grab control of oil interests when Saddam Hussein acted to move from the dollar to the Euro.
We SUPPORTED Saddam with weapons of mass destruction (with which he killed his own people and we KNEW that) for 20 years, when he did our bidding. No problem until our oil interests were threatened. Then SUDDENLY we cared about the “freedom” of the Iraqi people. Total horses**t and a waste of the lives of 4000 servicemen and women.
You want to “honor” our servicemen? Get them home and only ask them to actually do something that DOES defend someone’s freedom.
grow the f*ck up.
I can’t understand why people spend their time *creating* arguments that can EASILY be proven by typing just a few words in that Google search box in the top right corner of my MacBook screen. Honestly? Why fight about small things like this when people are out there fighting to keep you free?? Who can’t agree with me there? Give respect to the soldiers sacrificing for you now as well as all the soldiers that sacrificed for you many years ago in WWII, WWI, the Civil War, the Revolutionary War, etc. Each of them fought for you. Every one of you is grateful for them: even the most insanely staunch pacifist. Give thanks to God you live in this wealthy, blessed nation. Without them you wouldn’t have this. Without Him, you wouldn’t be here!!
Ah yes. Doing what you suggested I found this fact site.
Is that really what you were trying to prove or argue? I think not.
Well, I think it was!
You ARE the biggest fail. Goodbye.
*wonders WTF lizzie was talking about*
I am? But WHYYYYY!? *cries like a girl*
But seriously – either busshaus’ post was sarcastic and then my response was well in line, or it was just crap, and then my response was well in line. :p
I was merely stating that the US, Canadian, and British troops went to Normandy, fought back German forces in an attempt to stop Hitler/ the Nazis from taking anyone else’s freedom. Because, who knows, if we hadn’t his eyes would have probably gone to America/Canada/Great Britain as his next conquest, which would lead to his taking away our freedom and killing more Jews.
You mean Hitler might have started attacking Great Britain if we hadn’t intervened? Um, learn your history, Hitler already WAS attacking Great Britain. He had been bombing them for 2 years before we got there.
The US was only willing to help after we had been attacked, there was no noble foresight on the part of the American people.
He may have been bombing but he hadn’t actually taken it over and occupied it. THAT’S what I’m talking about.
That’s because the RAF and our old men were awesome.
True RAF and Allied Pilots were BAD A$$ MoFos!!!
The American people did not want to go to war again. We were pissed about the Great War, and wouldn’t let ourselves go head first into another without being provoked. If I remember right the president won the race the year before US went to war, on a campaign called: “He kept us out of the war.”
IRAQ:
Is it just me, or has everyone forgot that they wouldn’t let us inspect their arms programs for possible treaty violations. Which was a NATO sanction. They stalled and stalled… Then BOOM target of opportunity. Gulf War Part Deux.
As much as it pains me to say this, Russia was the true victor in Europe, the US’ and Great Britain’s exploits were minuscule by comparrison. If Normandy didn’t happen, the Soviet Union would have eventually liberated France and turn it communist. Normandy happened to prevent Western Europe from becoming communist.
Wrong. No. Stop. If Normandy didn’t happen, the Germans would have been able to keep all their focus on the Russians, thus resulting in a much longer and bloodier conflict.
I guess those that fail to learn from history really are doomed to repeat it.
And those who just fail to learn history are doomed to prattle on about beliefs from middle school.
EM, about 2/3 of the allied personnel who landed on D-Day were British or Canadian, and half the Americans who landed were still stuck on the beachhead when we were half-way to Caen!
Are you saying that it would have been a successful siege without the American troops, vehicles, and equipment?
If not, exactly what ARE you saying?
I’m saying that it would not have been a successful invasion without British and Canadian forces, and without the use of England as a staging ground.
Unless Captain Wow thinks that Mexico or Canada are willing to act as staging grounds for the Iraqiis, Normandy is a Straw Man in this context.
I’ll give you that finding a Panzer division on manoevres just behind a beachhead was actually bad luck though.
No, but thanks to way to liberal immigration philosophies, the staging ground is from within.
And loss of freedom comes in many forms, not just invasion. How many freedoms and invasions of privacy do we have now as a result of 9/11?
How many more will we lose after the next?
People (and all politicians) keep taking until someone finally stands up and says no.
“Liberal immigration philosophies” took away our freedoms post 9/11? George W. Bush will be startled to learn that he’s a liberal, or that immigration had anything to do with it. Warrantless wiretapping, the Patriot Acts, indefinite detention without trial, and all the rest of it are the direct result of Bush’s anti-terror policies and the total gutlessness of the Democrats to stand up to him.
Uh, Pres Bush (41) endorsed and pushed for the first “amnesty” policy for illegal immigrants quite possibly encouraging the subsequent massive immigration of later years…well that and the business leaders who wanted to get cheap labor, drive down the amount of money they pay for labor and generally screw over the American Worker.
do you even recognize:
“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”
or can those of us who were here first, before you white-eyes came uninvited, boot you back to europe?
You can try to boot us, but I think that since you lost to the “white-eyes” you’re stuck with us. (See SO tempted since you tried to be duragatory to be duragatory back, but since I love native American culture, I’ll refrain).
And I’m all for your tired huddled masses, as long as they go through the proper channels, and stop doing it illegally. That’s just me though, why would I want our law makers to enforce the laws. I must be stupid or something.
Unfortunately people seem to think that that only applies to immigrants who come to our country through Ellis Island.
Are you implying it should be applied to illegal aliens too?
Or, what ILPB said.
I’m saying there are those out there who don’t beleive we should permit ANYONE to come to our country from Mexico. Legal or otherwise.
…and those people are nut jobs. Why are we referencing them here? I know of no true Conservatives or Liberals who would block the legal immigration of anyone from anywhere.
I’ve never met anyone – *anyone* – online or in real life who’s ever said anything like that or who believes it in any way. Where do you find people like that, since you brought it up?
I don’t think Captain Wow was negating the role of other countries in the Normandy invasion. All I think she was doing was pointing out that Americans have fought on other continents before, which pretty much invalidates GoodGrief’s original post.
I think Good Grief invalidates his original post by posting it.
That is factually incorrect, by a long shot. There were 4 beaches in operation Overlord, Gold, Juno, Sword, and Omaha. The Americans took 1, the British took 2, and the Canadian took 1. The British landed with similar numbers to the Americans landing on Omaha. However, and your proof, in the Battle for Caen, is actually proof to the contrary. Until American forces advanced the Nazi flank and American armor took up around Caen, the brits couldn’t take the city. Oh yeah, and 2 airborne divisions (American) were launched on D-Day. Way more Americans and American equipment went in on D-Day than any other country.
Actually you are wrong there were five sectors or beaches as they are now called. GOLD, JUNO, SWORD, OMAHA AND UTAH. The British landed at Gold and Sword. The Canadians landed at Juno. We landed at Omaha and Utah.
The Allies landed 83,000 troops that day. 61,000 of them British.
The US had 73,000 troops. The above figures include the airborne troops.
Sword beach had light casualties and Caen was suppose to be taken on D-Day. Caen was not taken till August the 8th.
Juno beach suffered the second highest casualtiy rate that day. Despite the casualties the Canadians advanced the furtherest of all troops landed that day.
Gold beach had it share of casualties. ALthough the Brits did not reach their D-Day objectives they came close.
Omaha beach was the worse. Intelligence failed to realize that the 352 Infantry division was on the beach. The D-Day objectives were taken on D +3
Utah beach had the lightest casualties that day. The reason was the current pushed the landing craft onto the wrong sector. Brig Gen Roosvelt Jr. upon learning the fact said “We will start the war from right here.”
GoodGrief: Sit down, chat with me as I let you in on a few secrets. I believe Ghostwish was talking about American Soldiers in general. So if we were to look back into history let’s look at the freedoms American Soldiers have died for.
Then there was some more genocide going on in some Balkan states. We decided to entervene and 32 total Americans perished to bring the FREEDOM to live.
1) This pesky little thing called freedom for America started in 1775, when some Militia stood up to the Red Coats at little towns called Lexington and Concord. About 25,000 dead, another 25,000 wounded or missing. Which lead to this insy binsy little document that really hasn’t effected the history of the world much, I think it’s called something like the United States Constitution or something.
2) Next in 1861 this little tussle called the Ammerican Civl War started. Now some people claim it wasn’t about Slavery, but States Rights, well the “Right” the South was fighting for was slavery. Let’s see about 364,000 Union deaths in that scuffle, and what came of that war… hmmm Emancipation Proclamation or the freeing of the slaves… hmmm NO freedoms there, unh?
3) We’ll fast forward a but to this really tiny war. These three really bad guys, let’s call them Hitler, Mussolini, and Hirohito decided they wanted to rule the world together and created this little treay called the Axis powers. Now these guys weren’t really nice to the countries they conquered. Let’s say they might have done little think called genocide. Well we get pulled into this little skirmish, and help free these conquered people. It only cost us around 405,000 American deaths.
4) No let’s go to this Asian penisula, we’ll call it, I don’t know Korea. Now the Northern part of the country is run by an oppressive government bent on say taking over the Souther country. So as the largest contingent of this worldwide group known as the UN, we stepped in. I think there were about 36,000 soldiers who perished in that endeavor.
5) Another Asian penisula. North and South again. To our surprise the North were agressing upon the South. Now we didn’t quite succeed in securing freedoms for the South, however we tried and it only cost us 58,000 brave souls.
6) Then there was the middle east. This really swell guy decided he wanted to control most of the world’s oil. So he just took over a small country, we’ll call it Kuwait. Now he didn’t just take over, he decided to execute civilians, imprison whoever he wanted, and frankly just be an ass. Well America led an internation coalition, and it cost us 300 American soldiers to FREE the Kuwaiti people and world oil.
7) Then we went to Africa. We decided to work with that UN again. Warlords were starving millions, so why not bring them aid. Well the warlords didn’t like that. We tried to get the warlord so that it’d be easier and less risky to get the food to those starving. This was a small toll, only 43 young Americans perished to bring food to those who are hungry.
9) Let’s look at Afghanastan. Al Queda training camps, Taliban in cohoots with Al Queda. Al Queda also attackes European countries. Taliban whips women for showing ankels, and shoots men who don’t believe in their version of Islam. So we try and free that country of the Taliban, not only to help rid world of Al Queda, but free the Afghan people. Oh wait didn’t Al Queda attack America, I’m not sure. That has cost us so far 677 brave American men and women.
10) Now let’s look into Iraq. We have a leader who has shown no remorse or restraint on using WMDs. (I think some Kurds and Iranians could attest to that). Not following the conditions of his surrender from the 1st Gulf War. On one hand alluding to the fact he has WMDs (oh and preaches Deth to America), and then on the other claiming he doesn’t. So do we trust a dictator who has shown a nack to say nerve gas entire villages, or do we ensure he doesn’t have such weapons? Oh and let’s not forget about those Iraqis who have helped American troops. When I talk to some soldiers who have come back, they’re quite, what’s the word oh yeah PISSED at the media for not showing the good things going on in Iraq. Instead the news want’s to dirve home Bush bad for Iraq. Also aren’t soldiers now fighting Al Queda in Iraq? Didn’t Al Queda attack us HERE on our soil twice, two embassies, and one naval vessel? Who cares if they weren’t there to begin with, they are there now, and they are our enemy. Oh those brave souls that have dies is up to 4,300.
FINALLY: Any time a soldier enlists into the military they take an oath. Please see below:
“I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God. ”
And since the Constitution entitles me to my freedoms I LOVE today, I would say EVERY soldier risks their life for me and my freedoms EVERYDAY, regardless of where they are. So in short poo poo on you.
In the course of your oh-so-informative history lesson, don’t forget that the US used to send money not only to Sadam Hussein, but also to the Taliban, before they took control. Clearly, that has not made American soldiers or civilians any safer
Let’s see: History update for Lilith:
1) Not money to Sadam but weapons to fight Iran, who at that time was trying to take over the Middle East and oil. Best thing to do, No, however seemed right at the time.
2) Not money to the Taliban, but the Afghan freedom fighters. The Taliban happened to get their hands on such weaponry and money. The Taliban really didn’t become big until after the Soviets left Afghanastan, and the warlords took over. I could go on more, but Eric’s eyes might glave more.
The Taliban ARE the “Afghan freedom fighters.” One man’s freedom fighter is another man’s terrorist. The United States simply found it convenient to ignore the mujaheddin’s shortcomings as long as they were fighting the Commies. Ditto Saddam and the Iranians. None of this has anything to do with “freedom;” it’s about geopolitical leverage.
EWAdams: History lesson # Gabillion. The Taliban and Al Queda were only small parts of the Afghan Freedom Fighting movement. The largest part of it were the Mujahideen. And to further my point this was all during the Soviet Invasion of Afghanastan.
I LOVE I Like Peanut Butter! We need you out in the mainstream to explain the fundamentals to those who just don’t get it, or are too stubborn to listen.
And ILPB loves Joy. Joy helps get the dishes clean….
Much better than Pamolive
I prefer Dawn, but I’ve got nothing against Joy.
YOu know history too; when would you say the last time an industrialised nation successfully invaded Afghanistan was? I’d say “never” (for values of success that require going in with clear goals, and achieving them).
I’d honestly say trying to bring democracy to the Middle East is like trying a land invasion of Russia. The people that want it don’t have the coordination and leverage to get it and maintain it, and those that don’t want it have the bigger guns and where-with-all to kill whomever they want to keep their power. But I would say prior to WWI the Brits had a pretty good handle on Afghanastan, but after WWI the Brits lost most of their gumption and ability to maintain the Empire.
You sir, are awesome.
Wall of text…making eyes…glaze over…
:stares blankly:
Sorry Eric, but that blatant ignorance of soldiers not risking lives for freedoms irritates me. So then I type and type and type…… First time I really got sarcastic quick, well since my “Troll” days.
ILPB, I like you, and I like peanut butter too! Good to see someone with such expansive knowledge of history and a good culinary taste too.
Agreed Ghostwish.
ILPB hates peanut butter.
No peanut butter cookies. I should have clarified that.
Explains why you can only regurgitate what has been spoon fed to you.
I respect an individual that is informed an votes either way, but it scares me that everyone can vote regardless of actual personal thought.
You keep disparaging others’ knowledge yet have failed to provide any of your own. Since ILPB is “spoon fed” how about you enlighten us.
*crickets*
*croquets*
*bocces*
-Shuffleboards-
horse shoes & hand grenades!!!
Lawn darts rule all.
(5) Your knowledge of history and geography seem about equally dodgy. What the Vietnamese were fighting for before you got involved was freedom from French colonialism. And Vietnam isn’t a peninsula, or is that why the 2 most bombed countries during the Vietnam War were Laos and Cambodia?
Ho Chi Minh trail. And no the VC and Commie North were fighting against French Colonization, the South Vietnamnese were fighting to keep Communism away.
Part-truth.
The truth is still that you were bombing 2 non-combatant nations, and that some of the S Vietnamese were fighting against Communism; the others were fighting against French colonialism and later American aggression. Or does “Freedom” only apply if you want the freedom to have a Capitalist democratic government? If so, why do you support the Israelii Kibutz movement, which is the most successful example of Communism (not State Capitalism) in the World?
The VC were the South fighting for Communism, hence why I called them the VC. It wasn’t American agression when you’re preventing a rebellion. Besides we needed to halt the spread of Communism. Remember communism = bad. That whole lack of freedoms in most communist regimes. Not to say dictatorships are any better. Only form of government with “true” freedom is democracy (well sort of stupid taxes). I support the Israli’s ability to KICK ASS!!!, but never said I supported the Kibbutz movement, have I?
Serious question; have you ever read Giap’s biography? His belief was that most Vietnamese were fighting for Vietnam to have the right to determine its own destiny free from all foreign influence. Their turn to Communism was at least initially because it was the easiest and cheapest way to get the weapons they needed to get rid of the French.
Can you try and get it through your head that Soviet Union et al= State Capitalism, not Communism? There is a very fundamental difference between the 2! Oh and Kibbutzim proves that true Communism not only works, but works in a true democracy. I totally agree with the Israelii’s ability to kick ass big time though!
No I haven’t. But gee that plan backfired. Get rid of French pull in worse dictatorship.
I’m sorry, but when the ocuntry refers to itself as communist, I’ll call them as such. If they aren’t a true Communist state, it’s what they strived for. Just like America isn’t really a free market society, but we like to think we are (I wish we were). Kibbutzism shows that a small population (which is ever shrinking) can make this system work. But as a whole, this system will never work, b/c people will always want more. Israel isn’t really a true democracy either, since their democracy is like ours. Popular vote doesn’t always win elections.
So you call the German Democratic Republic democratic too?
Sorry, but the leaders of the Soviet Union did not strive to be a ‘true communist state.’ For the same reason that our leaders do not want us to live in a true democracy, these people had no intention of making themselves equal with the peasants. We live in a class society where the top 0.001% have fashioned us into cogs of their tyrannical system. If you doubt this, or are interested in learning more then read John Perkins’ incredible book, The Secret History of the American Empire. And for further proof that Perkins is telling the truth, check out The Global Class War, by Jeff Faux. We’ve all been spoon fed their propaganda since we were born (and I don’t care if you’re 100, it doesn’t matter.) You can’t trust the history you were taught in school or most of what’s written in books. Trust your gut instead, and always question the facts–because they are very pliable, especially when you control the printing presses…
Bombing Laos was an @sshole move. I have no idea who encouraged our planes to drop the remainder of their payload on Laos but they didn’t deserve it. They’re still cleaning up the mess we left and people die and lose limbs to this day from ordinance that failed to explode for 30 some years.
Well why did Ho Chi Minh use Laos as a staging ground? Don’t we blame terrorists for using human shields? Why not blame the Minh for using Laos as a shield? What were we to do?
I didn’t say we had a choice, I’m sure we had to do it or we wouldn’t have done it.
That doesn’t change the fact that it’s still ruining innocent peoples lives to this day, and that’s a tragedy.
War is tragic. That what sucks about it. People are still dying in Vietnam from land mines, in Kuwait, helk people are still getting hurt from non exploded ordinance from WWI in Europe. I really really wish the innocent didn’t have to get hurt in war. But unfortunatley a lot of people’s way of combatting a better equipped enemy is to use civilians as shields or at least partially as sheilds.
I was ranting last year about how it seems like we’ve got a responsibility as a country to offer Laos more assistance in cleaning that crap up. We could at least loan/give them some technology to help out; their mine/UEO removal system is basically a couple of guys with a metal detector and a shovel.
Whether we were right or wrong to bomb them, I think we’ve got some responsibility to clean up our mess. Kids today shouldn’t be losing limbs over a war that happened 40 years ago.
ILPB; true, but at least some of the Belgians who’re blowing themselves up are doing it trying to strip copper drive bands off 90YO artillery shells!
Or just trying to uncover history in Archelogical Digs so we can further understand the horrors of Trench Warfare and chemical weapons (so we don’t use them anymore).
“I have no idea who encouraged our planes to drop the remainder of their payload on Laos but they didn’t deserve it.”
I believe that was Henry Kissinger.
Oh and Vietnam is on an Asian Penisula. Look at a map.
No need; Vietnam is ~1/3 of the width of the peninsula.
I know, but I said let’s go to another asian penisula. Which is what it was. So I’m trying to figure out why you said what you said.
So now you know I know 2, which takes us back to the question of why you felt it necessary to carpet bomb 2 non-combatant nations (which probably led to the rise of Pol Pot, and to the Killing Fields, which strike me as a fairly basic removal of freedom that you felt no need to take action about).
AS I said the Ho Chi Minh trail. If the VC and North Vietnamnese hadn’t used those countries to move equipment and hide equipment, then we wouldn’t have needed to bomb them. What would be more effective?
a) Bombing a jungle with nothing in it? (OMG the Green house gases and lose of rain forest would devistate the world’s eco system)
or:
b) Bombing where the enemy has their weapons, bombs, and troops?
(B), but that requires you to actually bomb supply dumps, not hundreds of square miles of jungle.
Thats what they were doing. They realized bombing the jungles that looked like ammo dumbs in the North didn’t create secondary explosions, hence diversions. But man when they bombed the “trail” things lit up like a Christmas Tree.
Ok, now explain the 1000s of tons of unexploded M-117s and Mk82 slicks. They weren’t hitting supply dumps that often!
Ho Chi Min knew whiners like you would be upset if we bombed Laos and Cambodia, so he deliberately set up his camps, supply dumps, etc there specifically. Our troops were told they could not bomb or enter those countries even if in hot pursuit of the enemy. So Nixon said “Too bad” and allowed our troops to go after the enemy regardless. And it’s sad that 40 years later, people like you still believe the lie.
Been there, saw it, still have the scars.
Try and rationalise all you like; most of the weaponry that was being moved on the trail was personal weapons, mines and plastique. Not things that generate secondary explosions like bombs and shells for all the aircraft and artillery the VC didn’t have.
RPG rounds, C4 and mines do make beautiful secondary explosions. So does a truck full of ammo.
Paws4thot-
And you were there when?
I have only one thought to add here- and I know ti will not be a popular one. But it is one from a neutral-ish third party to SH’s original “invasion” of Kuwait in the 1990s. Kuwait started it according to every person I know that was living in Kuwait that was not a native in 1990—about 25 pp that i have met over the years in school, at conferences, etc. Some Indian nationals, a couple South Africans, some Chinese–you get the picture. Kuwait arbitrarily took possession of Iraq’s most productive oil fields that bordered on Kuwait. We never hear about this- and I am NO WAY defending SH- he was a horrible person—too bad we are responsible for putting him in charge in the first place….All I am saying is that our hands are not always clean—and these things are rarely black and white. Vietnam is hardly as clear as you present it herein—my dad was a special ops advisor prior to the official involvement- it was about oil, and one reason we ended up in the mess at all is because (as was our habit in the cold war) may have actually prevented democracy from being allowed. Our hypocrisy got us into a LOT of trouble over the years— we are still the good guys- and I am proud to see Obama restoring that perception- but were are not snow white. Jsut a few thoughts to add to your post- which I agree with in principle—just think gray area should be acknowledged.
Discalimer: this post was written online and thus was not grammer or spell checked…deal with issues not minutia (wait nevermind- do whatever you want—it is just the internet.)
Dropping in: Won’t bash grammar, mine is horrid.
About Kuwait: If it was about those Oil Fields, why didn’t Saddam just stop at those fields? I understand you weren’t defending him, but it was def he saw an openeing and made it much Larger.
About Vietnam: You said it was about oil? How so? SOOOO LOST! I applaud your father for being an adviser, but still the war was manily about curbing Communism (or to Paws State Capitalism).
Hey I know there was some medling that got us screwed, but I was just pointing out to Mr. Grief when he tried to make the point soliders don’t die protecting freedoms, that there were Thousands that have. That’s all.
Oh and OBama IS NOT making us look like the good guys. He’s making us look like the school yard sissy.
Only to warmongers. I for one am glad to see our president do something besides threaten other countries. Look, if Iran & N. Korea want to fvck with us, then by all means I hope Obama puts a boot in their asses. And I think he would. But that should be the last resort, not something we jump to because we’re wary of those countries.
Agreed. I don’t think we should keep fighting everyone’s battles for them- The more allies we lose due to over aggressiveness or enemies we make because of it, the more problems we will have in the future. And we can’t fight all that many places at once.
But do you want to wait for another 3000 Civilians to die before he acts? I figured that we would have learned that appeasement does not work against mad men. I’m for trying peaceful ways with people who respect peace, but unfortunately it doesn’t always work. We deal peacefully with China all the time, b/c they at least understand Peace. N. Korea and especially Iran define their societies by their ability ot make war, keep the populace in a state of fear from America (Israel also for Iran) or western states that would come in and detroy their lives.
We deal peacefully with China because we owe them money, they make everything for us, and if properly motivated they could stomp us. It’s not like there’s some deep love and respect between the two countries. Kim is crazy, sure, but how many countries are going to rally to our side if we just talk about blowing the crap out of them?
I wasn’t aware that China was controlled by a power-hungry dictator with a shakey grip on sanity and a nuke, but I might have missed that memo.
Wow. Unfortunately so much of what you say is simply untrue, historically.
Leave aside World War II, most people will grant that that was a “good war.” You should at least have mentioned the role of Freedom-loving Uncle Joe Stalin in that one, though. As someone else pointed out, the Soviet Union did play a big role in the defeat of Hitler. And you neglected to mention that, once we defeated the Axis, we preferred to keep it and its collaborators in power. Especially in Asia.
Which brings me to those Asian peninsulas. (Peninsulae?) Korea was not divided into North and South until the US decided it should be, because the actual Korean freedom fighters were supported by the USSR. We preferred to support Koreans who’d collaborated with the Japanese during their brutal 35-year rule of that peninsula. True, the North was ruled by a dictator, but so was the South, with our blessing and support. (It was necessary to put down numerous rebellions in the South by Koreans who didn’t want to be occupied by the US any more than they wanted to be occupied by the Japanese.) It isn’t really true to say that the North “aggressed against the South,” because both North and South viewed themselves as one country and wanted reunification. The US did not. Both North and South wanted to “aggress against” the other, and did so. After the Korean War, the South was ruled by dictators, with lots of torture and murder of dissidents, until the South Korean people overturned the dictatorship in 1987. Yet when I was growing up, the South was considered a “free” country.
Then Vietnam. The Vietnamese fought against the Japanese and declared their independence after the Japanese defeat in 1945. The US wasn’t having any. We preferred that they should be returned to the French, who’d controlled Indochina until the Japanese took it away from them. So the Vietnamese went on fighting, finally driving out the French in 1954; by that time the US was basically paying for the French war anyway. An international conference provided for Vietnamese elections in 1956; a truce line was drawn at the 19th parallel. The US promptly began undermining those plans, set up a new Vietnamese dictator called Diem in the South. The elections were never held, Diem imprisoned and tortured his opponents with lots of US support. There was an insurrection in the South, not just by Communists (is that surprising?), but the North was not involved until much later. The US began by bombing and terrorizing the South; bombing the North came later. The North didn’t “aggress against” the South; again, the issue was reuniting a country that had been divided by outside powers. When Diem decided he was ready to negotiate with the southern rebels, the US decided to remove him, which unfortunately led to his assassination.
And so on. The rest of your history is just as inaccurate. The US has not fought in defense of freedom in my lifetime (I was born in 1951). The US war in Iraq was aggression against a country that had not attacked us, though we had attacked it repeatedly. That Saddam was a tyrant never bothered the US, which supported him for much of his career, especially when he was “killing his own people.” Sure, he had WMDs (made with our help) in the 80s, but not after the 90s; the claim that he did was a propaganda lie to justify Bush’s war. It’s not surprising that the Iraqis want us out, and have wanted us out all along; not only opinion polls but the elections have shown that. Whatever the good intentions and fine oaths of the American forces in Iraq, they are not there for anyone’s freedom, ours or the Iraqis’.
We haven’t freed the Afghan people; we just installed the Northern Alliance warlords, who are not quite as repressive as the Taliban, but it’s worth remembering that the Taliban were also welcomed as liberators when they first took power, so vicious were the warlords. Karzai’s government barely controls Kabul. And let’s not forget that Carter started the whole mess in Afghanistan by funding mujahideen to make trouble, which led to the Soviet invasion.
Another interesting summary, also one-sided, but once again…
I was responding to Mr. Grief’s ignorant statement. So it was to be one sided.
Duncan:
A) I was talking about US troops in response to Good Grief, so you weren’t paying attention. **Snaps on wrist with ruler**
B) Umm wrong on Korea. It was the United Nations NOT America that split the country after WWII. Sort of like how Germany was split. And the North passed the 38th Parallel to impse the Communist will upon the South. Hence the UN’s involvement.
C) Back to Vietnam. My history teacher told me something similar. Then when I asked who supported the uprisings in the South and funded them, she mumbles something about the Soviet Union. Then when I pressed on more asking how those elections that never happened being run. She mumbled again something about the communists using the elections as some sort of coup (ie rigging it). Yes there was a dumbass dictator in charge, but I’ll get into difference between dictator and communism (State Capitalism for Paws) later on.
D) **SIGH** 1951 hmmmm, were you one of the few lucky enough not to be drafted (flat feet), in college a long time, run to Canada, or actually sign up and go? From your posting I make be making a bad assumption, but I feel you probably weren’t in Veitnam.
E) Once again I get tired of repeating myself, again and again. So when we freed Kuwait there was no Freedom involved? When we help tostop the genocide in the Balkans (No FReedom there). Or how about Somalia? Not trying to feed starving people. Hmm Grenada? (I forgot that one). The rest of that paragraph I just can’t fathom. Still not as bad as Auora below but not wuite there. Have you ever asked a returning solider what they feel they’re fighting for? Have you ever shook the hand of a returning soldier (in a wheel chair I might add)? Also didn’t he keep the UN inspectors at bay, and kept hinting at the fact he had WMDs. As I said earlier (which you ignored) would you trust the word of a dictator?
F) WHAT? The Soviets Invaded to try and get more control of the Middle East. The were making there way to vital pipelines and oil fields. The Soviets invaded for Oil. Pure and simple, not to cease hostilities. As I said earlier, Democracy in Afghanastan won’t work, but at least women can go to school now (or did you miss that CNN special). Sure they arne’t 100% there, but the people of Afghanastan have more freedoms today than with the Taliban, and to me that’s the US dyig for freedoms (which you say we haven’t… sorry but that saying is just retarded)
So point E, lying about not having wmd is more bad than lying about a country that are supposed to have them but its false because you just want to finish your daddy job. Cool. My point is : that’s the wrong thing. Both aren’t angels. One killed his own people to maintain the grasp on all the diversity Iran have (and well..it was working, a sad way, regrettable, but it was working) and then you got bush jr that want a war and go and send his own people to get killed in a invasion revealed to be based on lies. Only one thing positive there: saddam is dead. How many soliders, childrens and innocents from boths sides and even others countries (like the journalists, helpers ect) are dead ..for one person? And freedom? how many freedom they have now? There is more people dying everyday cause of this invasion than when saddam was alive and in power…If the Us gov would want to help, it would ban first those “taunts” like in the picture above, and get more humanitarian job done. ( i dont blame the good soldiers that somehow believe they are trully helping iran populace. At some points they do make a wall behind the groups that want to take power with bombs and the innocents.)
SH was probably only daring the usa to attack his country, as an attempt to get the others islamic countries allies with him… It did work for a time..but the other islamic countries didn’t like him much, even after his conversion to islam.
Interesting summary, a tad one-sided, but interesting nonetheless.
That was beautiful, ILPB. I know a group of people whom I met online, the best people ever, who all remind one another regularly that their oath, taken in greatest faith and solemnity, is binding for life and applies against all enemies, foreign and domestic, etc. The Rottweiler is like the best place online for decent people
I notice that you didn’t mention the war of 1812 or the First World War in your speech, or were they meaningless?
I C EROR!
The casualties of the Battle of/at Lexington Concord were roughly 370.
The Declaration of Independence was made before the constitution, in 1776. The United States Constitution was made in 1787.
The Civil war was about slavery for the South, yes, but not the North. For the North, it was about preserving the union.
Meh… few other errors…. too lazy/tired to point out…
So we thought about someone who is living in a cave.
GoodGrief, a fitting name, because I can’t fathom how you forget 9/11 so easily.
Yep, Hitler wasn’t a threat to America because he was halfway across the world. That big water stuff protects us! And Japan, they weren’t a threat either!
I’m not saying I agree with the War in Iraq, but your comparison is probably the stupidest thing I’ve heard this week.
Why?
first of all you dont have the facts, they attacked US and we a retalliating against the al-kaida, not the country
Really? These two morons specifically? Sorry, is it a thought crime to call soldiers morons when they’re being morons? Is it not possible to consider a soldier a moron without also slandering, say, non-moron soldiers who fought in WW2?
Stop being such a cry baby. They’re big boys and they don’t need your skirt to hide behind to save them from hurtful words, especially when you’re insultingly invoking soldiers which have nothing to do with the picture to do so.
You might as well say that if someone calls the President a moron that they should shut their mouth because “morons” like George Washington gave them their freedom.
No Ceefax. You are a moron. Ghostwish, I Like Peanut Butter, Hesse….these guys are stating something that they believe because they are proud of their country and don’t want to dishonor the sacrifices that so many of our soldiers have given. Relating the situation of soldiers today with things soldiers did in wars like WW2 or Korea is not an ignorant thought. The soldiers in this picture who wrote that on the gun…you’re really going to call them morons for putting that on there?…When YOU CANNOT possibly understand what they have been through or think about seeing what they’ve seen. I imagine if everyday you have psychos shooting at you because they believe that you are the scum of the earth because you are the “western devil” outside of the nation of Islam, you’d become pretty callous as well. I come from a family of military and my cousin is there right now. He has repeatedly told me that people just don’t get it. When he sees idiots like you saying that soldiers are morons for being hardened with their attitude towards these monsters…it kills him. They may be big boys…but they still get incredibly hurt when people in their own country have gone beyond not agreeing with them and to the point of insulting them. Liberal “morons” like you will use the most skewed logic to make a point even if it is moot. Go find something better to do. And Ghostwish, I Like Peanut Butter, Hesse…good for you for saying something with some respect for country and military…especially on a board that so often is filled with idiotic comments that do exactly the opposite.
A moron in a uniform is still a moron. Don’t insult the brave people from many countries who died in WW2 by comparing them to these meatheads.
Just to confirm, no soldiers, in any army, anywhere can be morons?
Are people allowed to call John Kerry a moron? I seem to recall during the last election quite a lot of people insulting someone who’d served as an American soldier. That and implying American soliders get medals for nothing and that purple hearts are dished out like candy to soldiers who get a splinter. Oh, wait “Thaaaat’s diiiiiiferent”
No DD214 for you?
Wow, you know abosolutly nothing about the hows and whys of purple hearts. They are given out to souldiers who are are wounded or die in COMBAT not minor injuries unrelated to combat.
Tanker: He’s referring to those who bashed Kerry during his campaign. He wasn’t saying that’s how it is. OMG I can’t believe I just defended Ceefax!! Quick get my the cholorox bleach!!!
All I have is Cholorox wipes. Will those do?
Is that the special version of Clorox bleach that kills Cholera?
I got a free box of those wipes when I bought the Signet edition of “Love in the time of Chlorox” at Barnes & Noble.
i find it funny how you called a bullet wound, or shrapnel, or a missing limb a splinter. tell you wat, how about i put a bullet in UR ass and lets see wat you think then
Sarcasm detection – turn it on and reread!
Oh get off your damn soapbox. The guys who put that on a gun are idiots. Ceefax NEVER tried to imply all soldiers were morons. Just these guys. You can’t excuse everything soldiers do just because they’re at war. That’s ridiculous. Trying to turn this into a debate about respect for soldiers is nothing but a strawman, and not a very good one at that. You can still have respect for our men and women in uniform while thinking these guys are a couple of tools. Let it go, geez.
But these guys are funny.
Aren’t we supposed to be protecting the Iraqis? I don’t see why this is funny.
Aren’t alot of the insurgents IRaqis. Plus unless I’ve been there I can’t judge these guys. If these guys want to blow off steam this way, so be it. Yes it would be better to say “Insurgient” but a) It wouldn’t fit, and b) They might not be able to spell it.
There are better ways to blow off steam.
But Eric, have you been there. Do you understand the stress they are under? I loved the video of the guy at an Iraqi check point asking the driver if he knew of insurgents, and to have them come and attack b/c he’s bored.
Eric: just thought of something. This could read 1 of 2 ways:
Photos OF Iraqis here
Or
Iraqi Photos (the way we take photos in Iraq). So really if it’s the second not as “tasteless”.
It’s gallows humor, Eric. Cops and health-care workers have it too. It’s a Freudian thing: Sigmund Freud in his 1927 essay Humour (Der Humor) puts forth the following theory of the gallows humor: “The ego refuses to be distressed by the provocations of reality, to let itself be compelled to suffer. It insists that it cannot be affected by the traumas of the external world; it shows, in fact, that such traumas are no more than occasions for it to gain pleasure”.
Sometimes it’s the only way to cope with what’s happening.
Plus, who says it’s Americans? There are a lot of coalition troops there- Canadian, British, etc… would may have done this.
Ceefax- “Blame America first!”
Look at the lettering — it looks Greek to me…
I’m not sure who’s it is, but I’m fairly sure it’s not a gunshield on a piece of British armour.
Huh? Where have I said they’re Americans and what does that matter? Again, have the people bitching and whining and saying you should never be allowed to call a moron a moron if they’ve been in the army ever said anything bad about John Kerry? Hmmmm?
I can attest they are American soldiers. I saw that HMMWV on FOB Rusty when I was there. I laughed at it then too.
oh and Canada is not in Iraq.
John Kerry is to Purple Hearts as Frank Burns is to a shell in the eye.
-
And people denigrated John McCain’s service too. DOesn’t make it right, but it happens.
Fine, whatever. I’ll concede that I don’t know what it’s like over there, so I don’t know if this is a necessary way of letting off steam or not. I still think it’s tasteless and makes them look bad to a lot of people. I guess if you’re getting shot at, PR isn’t your number one priority though. *shrug*
No, actually most of them have been trucked in from other countries. Same with the 9/11 hijackers that Dubya kept insisting were from Iraq when only a tiny fraction of them were. Most, in fact, were Saudis, but Iraq was more convenient to bomb.
Why don’t you let it go dude. If he can have his soapbox, so can I. Like I said before…you don’t know these soldiers…you all make claims about them because of what they wrote in tape and a freaking gun. And again, if I was in the situation that they were in, I would probably be just as pissed and terrified as they are. I don’t blindly respect soldiers for their personal character when I have no idea what that is….I respect soldiers because they are the ones that took an oath and they are the ones that are in the middle of war.
Pretty tasteless when the Iraqis are the ones we’re trying to protect over there. And going to war doesn’t automatically win my respect.
You don’t think soldiers through out history from all nations have had to harden themselves agaist those they fight and use gallows humor just to get through the day? What do you think the nick names soldiers give their enemies are? Red Coats, Jhonny Reb and Yanky, Kraut, Charlie, Lobster backs, Japs, Hadji, ect, ect. Those are just the ones I remember from American history. I read an article once about the names the Prussians and the French gave each other during the Nepoleonic Wars.
How about the jokes soldiers have put on vehicles and signs for as long as writing has existed For example the Bridge at Ramagen A joke at the expense of a German Failure (look it up). The simple fact of it is soldiers need to be able to laugh at themselves, their situation, and yes the enemy just to stay sane. These are young men with youthfull senses of humor and until you have traveled one single mile in their boots who are you to judge what they find funny.
I can almost imagine if this was from an old war or one unrelated to America at all you would probably laugh, but since the war seems to be a sore subject for you all you seem to want to do is judge those you have no basis to be able to judge
It’s not a grammatical error, it’s a punctuational error!
“Grammar” has quickly become a buzzword meaning ‘any written error’, but the word does not mean that! Grammar pertains to how phrases are constructed and also includes spoken language.
Everyone, please, stop using the word “grammar” in this (incorrect) fashion. The word you’re looking for is “orthography”:
Orthography of a language specifies the correct way of using a writing system to write the language. It includes spelling, punctuation, grammar, capitalization, hyphenation, word breaks etc.
The soldier in the photo demonstrated poor orthography because of his punctuational mistake.
I think I might love you a little bit for that correction.
Orthography… Like an orthodontist? Cause I REALLY don’t wanna revisit that.
*Shudders*
Braces. I remember getting them removed. One of the happiest days ever.
Tinsle Teeth!!!
How long did you have yours? My sentence was 30 months.
Tinsle Teeth Jr.
Similar, actually! Latin root ortho, meaning straight or correct. Orthodontist for straightening your teeth, orthography for correctly writing.
-Shivers- I refuse to say it then.
AND his name is Swashbuckler, AND his picture is of a pirate with a knife in his mouth. *hugs Swashbuckler* Please stay awhile.
Oh you ROCK, dude! You ROCK!
I am Swiss, and I do not owe my freedom to these guys at all. I owe it to the American soldiers who fought during WWII. Yes, same country, same military, but different people.
I’m grateful the USA kicked the Nazi’s asses, and I have respect for U.S. soldiers and Marines in general, but I do not owe my freedom to those of today. Not yet at least.
As for the soldiers who wrote this, I have little respect for them. This is very insulting to Iraqis and helps to make them fear U.S. soldiers (as if they had not enough to fear already). I find this thing funny, but I think it’s mean and stupid to do this if Iraqi civilians can see it.
Iraqi civilians are not the same as the insurgents and the terrorists. I thought all USA citizens would know this by now… Especially those shooting them in person over there. Makes me wonder what the USA as a country have learned in this war…
By the way, you guys get very upset when Europeans criticize all Americans for what Bush did. Yet you can’t tell civilian Iraqis from insurgent Iraqis.
You think wars are still fought like in the middle ages, when soldiers killed not only enemy soldiers but also any civilians they found and burned any villages they came across.
I’m glad not everyone in the USA is uneducated though. At least there is still hope.
And thanks for the help during WWII. Those of you who did help. As I said, I only have a problem with those who are like the morons who wrote this in the picture. Everyone else is fine to me.
no one can tell insurgent’s from civilian Iraqi’s. They don’t have a uniform. That’s why we’ll never defeat the Iraqi insurgents. They can sit right next to a convoy and trigger an ied from a device in their pocket. And since coalition forces can’t just go around shooting people that look suspect we’re doomed to lose more lives until we finally withdraw. Also if we still fought “Like in the middle ages.” We would of just launched an icbm from a submarine and not lost a single Coalition life. I’m sorry you think we fight that way. But I’ve worked with Iraqi soldiers and police and when you don’t know who your enemy is that’s saying something. to put your trust in someone who could kill you. FYI: one of the Iraqi police we worked with was found dead after messing up an IED emplacement.
Sprent thanks for going over there, and doing what had to be done for our Country and your fellow soldiers.
To add to what sprent2922 said they also tae a family hostage and force the father at pain of death of his family to go fight or emplace a bomb. While these men are technicly combatant, if unwilling, they are often recorded and reported as “innocent civillian” which in one sense they are but when I was shot at in Iraq I could NOT make these distictions both becase all fighters dress as civillians or hide in groups of them, but because it’s impossible to know.
When given a choice to die or kill I will always kill them.
I NEVER shot at anyone who was not actively trying to kill me or other soldiers I NEVER killed a civilian or shot at one. (With the rare exception of warning shots. Which did just that warned them of the deathly result of their continued action and made the stop.)
Tanker thanks for going over there, and doing what had to be done for our Country and your fellow soldiers.
Thank you for the support you have show me and all soldiers by your posts here.
To be honest, not even Americans owe their freedom to the soldiers of today, technically. If they hadn’t been deployed to Iraq, we’d still have freedoms in this country. Not even the ones deployed in Afghanistan. It isn’t for freedom, it’s for retaliation. Which, if directed at the right country (and Afghanistan is…Iraq not so much), isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but it’s not for freedom.
Honestly the only vets who fought for *our* freedom were vets of the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812. Until some other country invades the US and tries to destroy our government, soldiers won’t be fighting for our freedom per se.
Thanks for your comments on the WW II veterans. With that out of the way since you are Swiss your country was never attacked during WW II. You were neutral the whole time. Maybe in the future if Germany had gotten it’s way your country’s freedom would have come under attack.
I think that is why s/he is saying that “I do not owe my freedom to these guys at all. I owe it to the American soldiers who fought during WWII”. (I am willing to bet teh monies that Glass is aware of his/her country’s status during WWII.)
Thank you. I am not personally one of those “morons” but I am in the service.
Well, actually THOSE morons are off radicalising Muslims to a point where they want to blow themselves up (with you near them, preferably) in order to have those morons leave.
If the only purpose of America’s military was protecting America, it wouldn’t need to recieve as much funding as all the rest of the world’s military combined. Those morons could be fired for not understanding why they’re doing it. (to help the people they’re trying to injure).
You’re a moron!
(no, you’re a moron)
(no, you’re a moron)
etc.
Classic .
If they were really smart, ya think they’d be out there?
I think Dwight Eisenhower, Colin Powell, William Carney,and George Patton would all disagree with that statement, not to mention countless others.
And before I get flamed again (THEY WEREN’T IN IRAQ, WAH WAH) I’m merely pointing out that going to war doesn’t make one stupid.
Sure it does. Don’t you know if you hug your enemy and the guy wanting to kill you/ take over your freedoms, then all will be forgiven? Give Peas a chance, specifically with garlic and onions.
Visualize whirled peas.
As I’ve skimmed this post, it finally dawned on me…. If you’re implying what I think you are, then you’re a total a$$!!!!
Are you implying that all the men and women (and dogs) that serve in our military are stupid? So to serve in the military you’re dumb? HMMMM wow that is one of the most elitist things on here. Let me guess you don’t celebrate Veterans Day or Memorial Day do you? Or how about 4th of July? (I am assuming you’re American, if you ain’t substitute like wise holidays for your country). B/C you get to celebrates those dates due to “stupid” soldiers.
don’t forget the dolphins! brave little buggers, them are.
Shit you’re right we do use dolphins as well. My bad.
freaking jenius! thats so funny
I like those nazi style letter ‘S’
Getting electrical tape to curve nicely is so time consuming.
Win.
lol true that
I bet the outcome of the study will be shocking.
“We have been unable to determine the reason. Please send more funds, we only have $2 million beer money left”
Lol.
man I wish. but no alcohol is allowed for soldiers that are deployed.
When did that change? It used to be *required*!
“but no alcohol that the higher ups know about is allowed for soldiers that are deployed”
There, fixed that for you
Picture WIN!!! Caption FAIL!!!
You realise that this type of thing happens quite a bit. Soliders put lettering or phrases on bombs or tanks.
Why is defacing public property ok when soldiers do it but not when gangs do it?
I wouldn’t call electrical tape “defacing”. It will peel right off of that CARC (Chip# 686 Tan) paint with no problem at all. I’m actually surprised it stuck long enough for them to take the picture.
As for writing messages on bombs, I don’t think defacing a bomb is really possible. They’re just going to blow it up anyway. Besides, if the humor lets them rationalize or trivialize the horrible things they’ve seen or been asked to do then I can hardly blame them.
Give them a break. I don’t agree with THIS war, but any soldier that is willing to lay down his life for my freedom is ok in my book.
Does that extend to soldiers of other countries as well, even if you don’t agree with the war they’re fighting?
Hey said a “soldier that is willing to lay down his life for my freedom”. Meaning, if that soldier was fighting for his [The Steve's] freedom is OK in his book. I think it goes without saying that he would be ok with a soldier from another country fighting a war that ensures he keeps his freedom.
I think you were trying to make a clever statement, but it just sorta didn’t work.
Any man or woman who’s willing to lay their life down for me is a hero in my eyes. These soldiers don’t know me, and although THIS war may not be a direct threat to me, they have no control over that.
The bottom line is that they signed a piece of paper and took an oath to die to protect me, my family, and my country if it ever became necessary, and they don’t even know me.
Moron or not, they’re a hero in my eyes. And yes, that goes for British /Canadian/French and whatever other nations troops stand up to defend the innocent from those who would do harm.
Just because Saddam hadn’t sent any missiles our way yet didn’t mean he wasn’t a threat to us.
That’s such a complacent attitude. “If they’re not blowing up shit in our borders then they’re not a threat.”
Is N. Korea not a threat because their missiles haven’t landed on our soil yet?
This war is very justified in that Iraq was a huge threat to us, if just a potential threat.
See I’m the kind of guy that likes to take care of problems before we have 2800 American Civilian casualties.
I would be very surprised to learn that Saddam was targeting rural Wisconsin with the WMD’s that he never had….
not a direct threat to ME =/= not a threat
France has an army? That fights?
-
/trolling.
RETREAT!!!!
/playing along
Hey they at least fire one shot. To signal the retreat!!! D’oh!
So if I were to go down the street, whip out a roll or three of electrical tape, and start writing stuff on the wall of the Kwik-E-Mart, and a cop saw me, he wouldn’t have any problem with me at all?
you’d probably tell you to remove it and move on. now if you were using duct tape or spray paint or some other less “remove-able” product… you just might land your ass in court.
*he’d probably…
*or she.
/trolling
There’s a difference. Don’t be a jackass. It does not matter what is written on the paint of a vehicle. It’s not like military vehicles keep the same paint job for 20 years. It’s hardly public property anyway.
It’s exactly public property.
So when an RPG or IED blows the vehcile up can we cite the Terrorists for destruction of property?
Yes. Yes we can. And should.
Police Officer: Excuse me Akmed do you know why I pulled you over?
Akmed (the Dead Terrorist): B/c I was speeding (raises eye brows).
Police Officer: No, b/c when you blew yourself up, you put a scratch on that Humvee and destroyed American public property.
Akmed: SILENCE!! I keeeeeeeaaaaaallllll you!!!
It’s spelled Akhmed. And it’s also one of the most disgusting examples of cultural hatred I’ve ever seen.
Oh, hey look! It’s a dead terrorist! And how is the idea that he’s a terrorist communicated? Well, he has a ‘towel’ on his head (he does actually refer to it as such in one skit), he has a black beard and speaks in a middle-eastern accent! He says stuff about Allah and being Muslim. Ha-ha-ha.
I bet you think it’s a pretty hilarious thing to watch. I wonder if you’d think the same if it was an Iraqi comedian with a skeleton dressed as an American?
To be clear: my hatred for the ‘act’ is because it equates Muslims with terrorists. If it left out all the imagery and references to Muslim culture itself I’d be fine with it. Although if it didn’t look Muslim, a lot of us Western folk might think “well that’s not a terrorist… he dun’ have a towel on his head”. /sigh
Care troll cares more than us.
aaaand proud of it
Honestly, I can see where you’d be pissed, but Ahkmed is a satire. It’s no more offensive than that. It’s using humor to point out the (sometimes) obvious.
They shoulda just made him appear Irish instead.
Lol…Yeah.
I’m guessing maybe the point D is trying to get at is that if you made a Venn diagram with “Muslims” and “Terrorists”, the Muslim circle would be a lot bigger than the Terrorist circle, and the Terrorist circle wouldn’t be entirely Muslim? Which is undeniably true.
Oh certainly. I agree totally with that point too, and … Well, my views on religion aren’t secret – it’s all nutcaseness squared, but I wish people would at least get it right. ;p
if that was Jeff Dunham’s only dummy yeah. But he satires everyone. Just look at his bubba j. puppet, or his sweet cylde I believe it was? and not to mention the stereotypical mexican attitude of Jose Jalapeno (on a sick). I applaud Jeff Dunham for walking out in that stage and going through with his act when 3/4 of the rest of the world was still frightened from the danish newspaper bombing. At least he didn’t cower down.
Actually I do think it’s hysterical. I’m sorry but a lot of the terrorists in the world today are Muslims. Too bad, so sad. If they want us to stop equating terrorist with Muslim one simple thing “STOP bombing shit!” (YAAFM, funny stuff.. zipperfish.com) Hey I know there were Irish terrorists, home grown American dumb ass terrorists (Tim McVeigh), Latin American terrorists (Columbian drug lords), etc… yeah yeah yeah… but in the course of the last ten years, who has killed more civilians? So I’m sorry but that’s how it goes. Oh and BTW the Muslim world does do stuff like this. Let me guess you also didn’t like “Team America: World Police” “derka derka derka, Mohammed jihad!!!”
I didn’t mind it anywhere near as much because I felt like it made fun of all involved.
And, @sprent2922: You know what, fair enough. I have not seen the other puppets and maybe I should. A friend showed me Akhmed and I was really revolted by it so I didn’t exactly go looking for more by the same guy.
D check out clips with peanut and Jose. They are awesome. Although not really too pc.
i think citing them for attempted murder and shooting the terrorists makes more sense…
Ugh. Go back to LiveJournal, son…
you’re right it’s pubic property. That means you have every right to go drive one. Try going onto a base and see how that works for you.
*pubic* property?
WIN..
oops Freudian slip.
I meant public.
Tyler you got pubs on the brain!!! Just go get some already. **Starts collection with sign “Tyler Laid Foundation”**
Pub? I’ll join. Does it have any good stuff on tap?
Include me in too, as long as there’s real beer rather than just stuff like Miller!
Pubes people pubes people….. stop thinking of your own drinking desires, and let’s think about poor young Tyler’s loins!!! Wait that came out wrong!!!
Pubes? I hear you can buy those from Scott Tenorman.
I stopped having Cokes at Clarence Thomas’ house because they all had pubes on them. Very gross.
Scott Tenorman? Eh, not since he ate his parents.
If the Kwik-E-Mart was painted with CARC(Chemical Agent Resistant Coating) paint you wouldn’t do any damage with tape. It’s extremely porous and that tape would barely stick. You could easily peel it off again.
The paint is however very soft and scratches/chips very easily. They have touch up spray available at the repair depots.
Worst case scenario, those guys cost the gov about $5 for a can of touch up paint. Most likely the depot laughed about it and left it on the vehicle. It will probably stay there until the gunner shield needs to be replaced entirely.
You don’t use the mini-mart in your daily routine. The mini-mart isn’t a machine that you have been training with for possibly years. The dynamic is entirely different.
The mini-mart is just a building that has no relation to your life. The .50 cal machine gun is something that soldier has been using for a very long time. He’s spent a long time behind that gunshield and probably feels a bit of ownership over it. Sure it is government property but so were the airplanes that had pinup models painted on the sides, or marks indicating total kills.
Your example was terrible, btw.
I certainly don’t think anyone needs to “rationalize or trivialize” killing people. This is precisely why there is so much death and destruction in the world both during war or not. Being a realist, I understand that sometimes war is inevitable. However, it should only be used as a means of defense or self-preservation. “Pre-emptive” strikes against countries that pose no immediate threat to our security are criminal in my opinion. And, I hate this attitude that a lot of people have on here concerning people in the military. Just because someone serves in the military to protect our nation, does not excuse him or her from immoral or reprehensible behavior such as the comment in the picture. And, before someone goes ballistic on me, I served on active duty in the military for several years including in combat situations. Military personal should always be aware of the human cost of war. Unfortunately, sometimes survival means killing someone else. But, we should always be aware of the tragic nature of this paradox. Trivializing it to assuage your guilt about it is unhealthy. Eventually, it’s going to catch up to you and cause you a lot of mental anguish. Take responsibility for what you are doing, and recognize that you are killing someone’s father, brother, son, grandfather, uncle, etc. If more people considered the human factor in wars, maybe we wouldn’t be so eager to enter into them.
Thank you for a good post!
I honestly don’t think I could handle the thought of killing someone’s brother/father/son. I’m a single guy, their life is more valuable than mine.
If I was in the military I would have to look at them purely as the enemy, some inhuman thing trying to kill me, like zombies or Dick Cheney.
I’m not saying that’s right, but I understand the mentality.
In war, it’s easy to define the enemy. It’s whoever is shooting at you.
Yeah, go hug a suicide bomber. Please.
Spoken like a true wingnut.
spoken like an exsoldier.
I’m sticking with wingnut.
WTF: Don’t worry ERic’s a wood screw!!!
Well said.
War is hell. Get over it you pussy. People are going to die. At least when we shoot them a couple times they die relatively fast. Not so much like the way the Kurds died at the hands of Saddam.
Jojo: Out, out damn demon of Trollness!!! We don’t call names here, unles you act Trollish. One more outburst by you and I’ll have to get out the Peas Maker!!!
Don’t you hate it when all your hard work and reasonable arguments are eroded by drooling knuckle-draggers?
And I was actually making head way that conservatives are not all idiots. Man!! **pulls out Peas Maker**
I have a sneaking suspicion that jojo’s main experience in battle is from playing Medal of Honor games on his Playstation.
I figured him for Duke Nuke’Em kind of guy.
Not fair, Diss. He probably has an Xbox 360, plays Call of Duty: Modern Warfare and taunts people via microphone about his “pwning skills”. So, he knows ALL about warfare doesn’t he? I mean, you get 12 lives and he doesn’t look like a human when you shoot him, right?
“I pwned ur asses, n00bs!”
Then the teabagging starts…
Fvck you, ass crack. WTF.
Or we could take the direct approach!!!!
No, we definitely need to penetrate from behind and fvck them in the ass crack.
I don’t like that asshole, and that comment seriously rubbed me the wrong way. W.T.F.
That’s why I told you to shave against the grain. less stubbly, and less hurt when rubbed. Seriously though, I can see that being a pretty dumb ass posting. I was just going to try and see if I could halt the Trollish ways, get him to be somewhat intellignet (some of his other posts aren’t that bad), and maybe rehabilitate him.
O_O
/gets down on one knee
Because writing jokes about shooting civilians is a great way of endearing yourself to a hostile country.
Lighten up! I’m sure their non-moron comrades will see the funny side of some knuckleheads undoing the hard work they’ve done on the ground and putting troops in danger.
To say nothing of putting the brave Iraqis that try to help the US–*EPIC SOB*–EVERY DAY in further danger.
get over yourself, its a funny joke…its called dark humor, anyone who’s been in combat knows what that is, and you obviously do not have the balls to do what they do…
Yep but I also have the brains not to do what they’ve done.
Stop worshiping these guys. reading a few first hand accounts of the war reveal just how many douches there are among the Jar Heads.
And Jonathan what have you don ein you life that has been completely unappreciated by a good 40% of your country? Like say risk your life for the country? Or perhaps get shot at, mortared, or have a chance for an IED every-damn-day.
Funny how “a few first hand accounts” equates to “just how many douches”. So if I were to analyze your sentecnes, then there are a few douches among Jar Heads? Since you only had a few first hand accounts. Sorry thought you were being a tool.
ILPB, Truly Epic.
Because people are under stress, they must be douches…
Wow Jonathan has this all figured out
There are unsavory people in every walk of life. Is this a reason to hate all soldiers? Do we hate all Germans because of the Nazi’s? Do we hate the Japanese for Pearl Harbor? Do we hate every French person because of the invention of Escargot?
These men risk their lives on a DAILY BASIS, and sometimes gallows humor that is in very poor taste is the only thing that gets you through the day.
So how about you stop being so sensitive?
Yeah, it’s in poor taste, but hardly shocking. I think when you ask young men (in this case) to risk their lives to do a poorly paid job, you have to expect some dark humor.
If this photo was taken after April of 2003, though, then it *does* show an unfortunate mind set. “Iraqis are our enemy” is exactly the wrong attitude if one is trying to help them rebuild their country.
I agree, gay caption ruins awesome pic.
dumbass.
f*ck off…srsly
It was just some pussy liberal that captioned it I’m sure. God I wish there was a disease that only affected non-patriotic fucks like the liberal trash around here.
JoJo: Seriously. You’re kidding right? Soemtimes I wish there was a disease that only effected people who thought they were patriots, but instead hypocritical dick seepage!!!
If you truely believed in freedom you wouldn’t realize we need the liberals, just like they need conservatives. People with only one viewpoint in histroy tend to not do great things.
Well, we already know YOU won’t do great things. Not from your mother’s basement.
Call of Duty is no replacement for real soldiering. Remember that.
And tuck that e-peen back in your pants.
Completely irrelevant and only consists of insults?
You’re making yourself look like an idiot who can’t formulate a competent thought. Maybe you are, maybe you aren’t, but grow the f*ck up.
So then you’d like this mythical disease to kill the liberal members of our Armed Forces? There are quite a few, in case you didn’t know.
Also, wanting to kill people who don’t agree with you… you forgot to take you meds today, didn’t you?
People with only one view point…
You mean like a dictatorship right?
**Claps thats a Patriotic winner right there.
Angry troll is angry, very angry!!!
Errr… This is not common for “soldiers”, but more specifically for “american soldiers”, imho. I don’t remember pictures like this outside US Army since WWII.
You’ll have missed the Korean War, Vietnam War (both sides in both cases), Gulf War (certainly main allied participants; I saw very few photos of Iraqii hardware), I think the Falklands War (mostly the Argentinians IIRC) then?
It’s been tradition since the very first airplanes went into combat for the pilots of the aircraft to paint a custom logo or other identification on the nose of the plane.
I’m sure it happened even before that, but that’s the earliest example I can think of.
I’d swear to personalising identification on guns, vehicles and planes since WW1 as well; possibly since the invention of the gunshield and about the 8″ shell (as opposed to round shot) so maybe the ACW?
Union soldiers put Rebel Pounders and such on their cannons. I believe that a few cannon balls being fired in to Yorktown had some cath phrases on them. It’s a tradition, it’s a way to get frustrations out. For once Steve and I agree almost 100%.
I think I just agreed with both of you!!!
Sh*t!! Damn it!!!! Where’s the Birth certificate?
Who’s!? I’m worried now, because I just might be old enough at 47 to be the father of one or both of you!
The standard “neo-con” saying. Asking for Obama’s birth certificate. We were agreeing had to kill it.
So you got knocked up at age 15? Dang they start young over there.
Seriously, the age of heterosexual consent here is 16. But if you’re saying what I think you are then I can’t be your father!
I’m 32. That’s what I’m saying. And sorry meant to say you knocked up someone else at such an age.
Giving a tank a name or writing “Have a nice day” on a bullet is completely different to driving through an occupied city with offensive slurs clearly written on your vehicle.
Especially a nation that is so unstable even before your involvement that anything could incite a whole new sh*t storm.
Uhh… nesting fail?
Probably but I’ll respond to him anyhows. You do realize that the Atom bomb dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki had some really REALLY bad slurs written on them. Like those that owuld make me blush. You do realize that some of the tanks in Veitnam had some REALLY bad slogans on them as well. But to get back on topic, how is Iraqi a slur? Aren’t they Iraqis? So you’re saying that being from Iraq is a slur. No who’s not being nice.
I think he means “slur” as “offensive sentence”, because you’re right his terminology isn’t correct.
I’m copying and pasting this all over!!! Liberl called conservative right!!!!!
Sorry had to go there. Buy you a Shirley Temple?
Considering that Tyler wants sex, I’m not sure that Shirley Temple would be able to comply…..
-Giggles and runs repetitively in circles then into a wall-
Sex! Yayyyy!
Ok Shriley Temple doll?!?!?!
Ew.
ROFLMAO! LINKIE!
That sly come-hither stare…
^^^^^^^^^^
Before Tyler.
After Tyler.
That would be because no liberal nation has really been at war since WWII, except the US?
When soldiers are at war psychological trauma tends to be expressed as Gallows humor or Dark Comedy.
If the US army is in anyway unique it’s because they’re don’t suppress the visual expression of such dark comedy as viciously as many other militaries.
While other nations might not paint/tape such messages on their uniforms/vehicles (because the officers would be hard on their asses if they did, even more so than most US army/marine officers) the same sentiments are expressed in verbal form.
Another explanation would be officer mentality in relation to their soldiers. My experience with US officers is limited, but a brittish officer would afaik go out of his way to explain to his “boys” why this is “detrimental to the overall war effort”, putting any blame on why it happened on himself (because they’re his boys. If they failed, it’s his failure as a role model and guide).
A US officer, at least from what I seen of them, are more likely to go a bit more roughshod over his soldiers and primarily blaming them.
No- we laughed at it. Tanks called “Iron Ass” or ” Bad attitude” were just as funny as helicopters called ” Incontinent Duck” or ” Bad to the Bone”.
I saw a hmmwv gunner turret with man in a box ala alice in chains. That was pretty neat. I’ve also seen a chinook with the purple teletubby painted on the bottom at Ft. Bragg. That made me do a double take.
whoever put this one together is a complete douche bag…i mean seriously, come on! those guys are over there in a hell hole, and the fact that they can have some humor? how is that wrong? these guys see some crazy shit go down, and you’re going to mock them for trying to cope with what they see…an epic grade ‘A’ douchebagy caption for the pic, but epic win for the guy who put that on the .50 cal mount…and besides, have you been living under a rock? we pulled the f*ck outta the main cities…just hanging around the countryside in Iraq…
There’s dark humor, and then there’s implied threatening of the people you’re there to protect. My CO would have kicked someone’s ass if he had found one of us doing something stupid like that.
So if the insurgents put a similar message aimed toward Americans would you say they are under stress and just trying to be funny?
Good question.
Yes.
If they didn’t follow through with the threat. YUP!
Same motif, different angle.
Brought to you by Useless Link Of The Day*
*) A Danbala enterprise
Maybe that $200 million would be better spent trying to figure out why our troops don’t want to continue ‘vacationing’ with a group of people determined to kill each other.
Or why The One hasn’t removed our troops yet as he promised ?
He set a definite time table. I’m not happy with it, but at least there finally is one.
So that way the insurgents know when to attack. Brilliant. We should have told Germany what beaches we were storming.
Really…no wonder Europeans think Americans are rude, showing up all unexpected like that!
I think we wiped our feet.
For sure cleaned out the rifles, would have been funny to see a mat next to the door on a paratrooper plane say “Wipe Your Feet” thou
Once we’re gone it’s no longer our problem.
He set a time table, and I’m taking bets as to when he announces that the time table has been moved back, because “they didn’t have the right information”, or “they misinterpreted the data” and figured out that it’s not as easy as it looks.
-
I’ve got three days before the deadline to pull out marked down for me. Who else wants some of this action?
*nods wisely*
Never trust a man who says he’s going to pull out.
I’ll take 10 days prior in the pool!
Diss, that was possibly the greatest comment ever.
Thank you, Tyler who I’m still not going to have sex with even if you compliment and flatter me!
What about if he continues licking your ass?
Um, ew?
Not my fault you like a good anal lathering.
Uhm.
Yeah, not sucking/licking up to diss, Deep. She’s been funny in the last few posts. O.o
…so she’s not funny otherwise?
No, funny enough to make me LOL, which is rare nowadays.
Does her ass look fat in the post below?
You’re just asking for a smack upside the head, Deep.
Hey Diss sho us your Christiantits!!!
But he promised to pull out.
You know what they call men who pull out? Fathers.
Not until they go on Maury though.
Of every 100 women whose partners pull out, 27 will become pregnant each year if they don’t always do it correctly.
You know that doesn’t work, right? :/
Logically it would work better than not pulling out. Not a method I’d want to count on, though!
“You know back in my day that didn’t have these fancy dancy brith control methods, you know like pulling out”
They did in my grandparents’ time–which is why they became parents of twins. Right before my grandpa got laid off from his job due to the depression.
Is you’re head always this pointy???
Not usually. :/ Weird day, I guess.
I thinks it’s friggin’ hysterical. Kudos to these guys for bringing some humor to a grim situation.
I’m fairly confident that if the soldiers in the picture wanted to be in Iraq, they wouldn’t have felt the urge to put a message on their equipment.
They want to come home just as bad as some of you guys want them to come home. Give ‘em a break, even though every single one of them volunteered for duty – knowing full well what that may mean – that doesn’t make them evil, gun-toting instruments against humanity.
Strawman arguments and logical fallacies aside, the joke isn’t really that funny. If you’re going to use gallows humour it should at least be worth the terrible feelings it engenders. If you’re going to go all gooey at the knees for soldiers do it when they display something worthwhile like discipline, honour or dignity. This is diplays none of those.
there is no honor in war and there is not any glory either and there is nothing dignified about crawling around on your belly and diving for cover if a shot is fired i have live around people who have been in the military and who are in the military they do not have much dignity but what they do have is kindness and generosity and the only thing you have right is the discipline
mad: Excuse me, but WHAT?!?! There’s no honor in war? I believe someone willing to sacrafice so I can live free is VERY honorable. And where do you get off saying our troops don’t have dignity. I don’t see them coming home with their head down low, but held high. What is you definition of dignity? Certainly seems different than mine.
The soldiers in Iraq are not sacrificing so that you can “live free”, that’s a lie. The soldiers are there to satisfy corporate interests and the thievery of oil – at the expense of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi lives. US soldiers tortured people to death, raped little children. There’s nothing honorable about that, there’s no dignity to be found in participating in that.
UMMM Eric/ Tyler/ Jane/ Eddie requesting permission to open can of intelligent whip a$$ on Auroa in a very Trollish/ mean way.
There’s one thing Aurora said that was correct, though.
Soldiers in Iraq are not fighting so we can live free. Soldiers haven’t done that since the War of 1812 when England tried to take their colonies back (okay, so it was more than that, but that was what they really wanted).
Ever since, we’ve fought so *other* people could live free. Or out of revenge. Or both. But not so Americans can live free, as there’s no way we’d stop being free if we, say, didn’t go into Iraq.
“raped little children.”
Okay, what the f*ck, troll? Is all you can do melodrama or can you formulate a coherent sentence after you stop watching rape fantasy kiddie porn?
Tyler I think I like you, but I gotta say: It has happened, you can Google it.
No, the vast majority are not out there raping children but it has happened.
Point is, though, even if it HAS, it’s no reason to make the blanket statement that “US soldiers raped children” as if it were a common practice. You take any large enough group, accountants, say, and there’s going to be a certain percentage of them that (sadly) have raped children. That doesn’t mean it’s correct to go around yelling about how accountants rape children, does it?
Oh, I agree. I was just sayin’.
Since “kiddie rapist” generally isn’t a marketable job skill they usually have to go out and work in other industries. So you have rapists who happen to be soldiers in the same way that you have rapists who happen to be priests, or teachers, or ice cream truck drivers, or that old guy down the street living on social security, or Aurora’s grandfather (who she’s only ever told her therapist about). She might just as well have said US soldiers have asthma. It’s be just about as effective of a statement. *rolls eyes*
Jane, she only told the rapist she got raped? I’m not really sure that’s telling anyone at all; I doubt they were listening. (Sean Connery SNL FTW!)
guess i shoudl leave “kiddie rapist” off my job appilcations from now on…figured it was cause of the sagging economy
I think Haliburton would hire you!!!!!!
Hey! Hey! HEY! Watch yourself there!
There’s TWO ‘ells’ in Halliburton.
As someone born and raised in Haliburton, Ontario, Canada, I’m sensitive to this sort of thing
She just wishes she had an Anal Bum Cover.
That’s not what your mom said last night.
-
(sorry)
That depends on if you have The Penis Mightier or not.
You obviously weren’t paying attention. It was reported that children had been sodomized in Abu Gharib and in other prisons in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and in many other places across the globe. It was reported that Congress witnessed some evidence of little boys being raped, but the evidence was kept confidential, for “national security”.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/may2009/tort-m29.shtml
http://www.prisonplanet.com/media-ignores-real-controversy-behind-torture-photos-they-show-prison-guards-raping-children.html
You want to try that with a credible news source? I mean seriously the world socialist website and prison planet? how much more one sided could you get. Look I’ve been to abu gharib. There were never kids there. As far as torturing prisoners. Yes what the soldiers at abu gharib did was wrong. Every soldier I knew thought it was wrong when we heard about it. Keep in mind this is after people trying to kill us on a daily basis. but some of those pictures are also out of context. Any wounded Iraqi is always filmed for medical reasons. Hell I have pics of prisoners beat up because the Iraqi police did it. And remember one thing while what the soldiers did was degrading it did not cause them pain. Check out a documentary called voices of iraq. It’s just Iraqi’s with video cameras. There is a group who were imprisoned by saddam who said they’d be happy to go to jail and have their privates
that was weird it auto entered. Continuing
played with by an american girl. There are renegade groups in every aspect of life. Soldiers like that are the reason the military police corps exist. So if all the soldiers are bad then why did a fellow soldier in their unit turn them in? also link tinfoil hat new sources will not give you any validity. Try using the associated press as a source. It’s rather unbiased and will let you come to your own conclusions.
I didn’t even look at her “links”, what a joke!
With Tyler’s response I believe that’s a Green light. Troll beat down in 3… 2.. 1.
Alright Fvck NUT!!!!! Listen up and listen up good, b/c I want to make sure you understand what I’m saying.
If you truely think that those men and women who are in harms way over in Iraq are not fighting for your freedoms, then you better wake and smell the coffee $hit for brains. I posted it before so I won’t post it again. When military personnel take the Oath of Militray Service they promise to defend the Constitution of the United States from enemies foreign and domestic. So everytime one of those soldiers dies, whether it’s in Iraq, Afghanastan, training exercise, THEY are sacraficing and dying for OUR freedoms, b/c they died protecting the Constitution (you know that document that gives you the freedoms you love to day, that allow you to bash those soldiers dying for you).
To your other points, PLEASE show me a shipping bill or ship manifest that shows Iraqi oil coming to the United States. If you can not, then this was not about oil, so STFU!!!!
Next: Name one person who died being tortured by our troops. Name one rape case being brought before the courts. Please cite, and stop being a POS 1960’s-70’s hippy who spat on troops and called them baby killers when they came home.
YOU are the type of liberal that makes me disrepect liberals at times (then I remember Eric, Jane, Tyler, sometimes The Steve, Paws). You REALLY need to grow up, and figure out that your little fantasy world isn’t real.
” Pacifists- Freedom’s parasites”
a bumper sticker I saw at an Army base this spring
There’s nothing wrong with pacifism. Pacifists can still respect the sacrifices made by soldiers and even admit there are times when military force is sadly necessary. As a LAST RESORT. Is that okay with you?
I love Pacifists, much easier to get the lunch money from.
And they taste good with hot sauce, right!!!
EW No, pacifists are usually the chubby sort, too much fat.
I’m not exactly a pacifist, but I wouldn’t hand over my lunch money- I doubt many of them would, either- the idea isn’t to avoid conflict, it’s not to use violence. If someone’s hitting/annoying/taunting me? I can take that just fine. Punches and kicks I can take, catch and block like no tomorrow. It’s when someone goes after someone unfairly/ unnecessarily violently/ for a bad reason that I’m going to start hitting.
Maybe not a pacifist, but I try and avoid violence as often as possible, and you AREN’T getting any lunch money from me. 
Kick and hit in the back as much as you wish, but if I’m going to deal with you passively I’d just pick you up and carry you wherever I need to go. Stop the hitting till I spend my money, then you’ll have no reason to bother anyway, eh? (Sorry for the rambling, I just felt like talking to ILPB for a bit.)
I’ve never been in a fight, but I do have anger management issues.
I myself dabbled in pacifism…not in ‘Nam of course…anyway the point is, pacifism is not something to hide behind. Dude.
And ILPB, I like you more than I used to. I don’t agree with Aurora because I believe that the soldiers themselves are there for the American people.
I do think oil was part of the decision to invade, I do think people have died as a result of torture by the American military and I do think at least one American solider has raped an Iraqi civilian.
Yeah, there may be a lack of physical evidence for these things, but hey, there’s a lack of evidence for God but a lot of people still believe in him. ^_^
Aurora’s implications and accusations are …unfounded and incredibly disrespectful. It’s a “they’re all 100% evil” argument. But, yours is a “they’re all 100% good” argument and I just wanted to comment that we should all probably leave a little room for reality to be something other than smack-bang on the 100% point of either side.
None of us are omniscient, after all.
D: No I don’t have the 100% Good aspect. If you read some of my posts I have admitted wrong doing. I just HATE the 60’s-70’s hippy montra, and when I see it the gloves come off. I would have to disagree with you on the torture and rape, b/c in today’s media if it happened it would be all over the Washingotn Post or New York Times. With the amount of embedded journalists we have these days, not much can be covered up. I distrouts me that you think that our soliders have tortured Iraqis (possibly the CIA or Area 51, or Seciton 9) and raped someone without any proof. That’s a sad look at our humanity.
And your God comment, some people would say the physical evidence God exists is the Earth your standing on, oh and the fact you’re here. Other’s would call that evolution, and that the Earth was created out of nothing due to a Big Bang (b/c matter can neithe be created nor destroyed)
Yes but that isn’t proof. The Earth existing isn’t proof one way or another of what created it. But people still believe what they believe.
“b/c in today’s media if it happened it would be all over the Washington Post or New York Times.”
I disagree with that so strongly I can’t even find the words for it. But, alright.
As I said, with none of us being omniscient it’s all just opinions and yours and mine are equally ‘right’. It’s like Schrodinger’s cat… until there’s proof either way we’re both simultaneously ‘wrong’ and ‘right’.
“…our soldiers have tortured Iraqis”
I assume you mean ‘to death’, because otherwise there’s some proof to the contrary out there for you.
“…raped someone without any proof”
Um? You mean those Abu Gharib photos that your government has refused to release? Yeah, they’re clearly being open and honest about what’s going on when they say “um, we’re going to hide these for a while…”
And if you’re going to say “there’s no proof that rape was going on in the photos they’re hiding” then are you saying you don’t believe U.S. Major General Antonio Taguba:
“The images are among photographs included in a 2004 report into prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib prison conducted by U.S. Major General Antonio Taguba.
Taguba included allegations of rape and sexual abuse in his report, and on Wednesday he confirmed to the Daily Telegraph that images supporting those allegations were also in the file….
The newspaper said at least one picture showed an American soldier apparently raping a female prisoner while another is said to show a male translator raping a male detainee.
Others are said to depict sexual assaults with objects including a truncheon, wire and a phosphorescent tube.”
I mean, I haven’t seen the photos. I don’t know for sure what went on. But if you’re going to argue that media corporations would have let you know by now, you should look at examples where they have. And at all the things the government and media are openly refusing to disclose. There are whistle-blowers all over the place but it’s not being splashed on the front page of the Washington Post.
I believe these things have happened, because if there was nothing to hide, there wouldn’t be so much being hidden. ^_-
It’s weird but human beings in general seem to always assume the worst until evidence is given. If you see a group of men standing around a naked woman most people automatically assume a gang rape is about to happen. It’s only when you come back 10 min later to find they pulled out their easels and are in a painting class. The human imagination is a warped and scary place and that’s why I try to hold off any assumptions until I see the facts. You know what they say about assume.
The perpetrators in the Abu Ghraib abuses went to prison for their crimes. The point is, the US and the US military do not endorse or condone such abuses. And of course these crimes, which were punished, are not to be confused with the legal activities that went on in a completely different place – Gitmo. Had anyone at Gitmo tortured people the way the guards at the prison in Ghraib had, they too would have been punished. Two entirely different stories going on there of course. The US doesn’t endorse or allow torture. Which is a good thing. Though after the beheadings, I sure as hell wanted blood.
PB, just on the Big Bang and the criticism of matter being “created”, that’s not the concept- The idea is that, for some reason, all the matter in the universe was packed into an unbelievably dense, small space, which was super-hot because of everything packed in there, and for some reason the matter exploded outwards, and that caused the spread of space the way we have it today. (with the exception of gravitational pulls.)
See, the Big Bang criticism you’re making here is technically invalid because no matter would actually be created or destroyed (hence it would follow the laws of science), just would’ve become unstable and spread out at an exponential rate. I’m not going to say whether it’s right or wrong, because really I don’t know and wasn’t around when the Universe formed, but I’m just trying to correct the criticism you’ve made there, because it isn’t what the theory states.
In the beginning there was singularity, and the singularity was without form and void…
But how did that matter come to be? What or who, or it, created that matter? When sceince can answer me that question I will stop believeing in a diety. Of course mine has his own name… Chuck Norris.
What you do alone at night makes the Baby Jesus cry, and makes Chuck Norris very very angry…
Thanks buddy!
Wow Just….Wow Really? What’s it like in your fantasy world? it must be a dark and violent place.
That was directed at aurora BTW
And what you don’t have is punctuation soitsallarunonsentencethatsoundslikethis!
steve? Is that you?
Wait, not steve…who was the troll with the really bad punctuation? Dammit nevermind.
Tytoon, Eric.
Thanks. I apologize to steve for confusing him with another stupid troll. Not to say steve isn’t a stupid troll, but I gotta give credit where it’s due.
Eric, if you’re giving credit, apologize to Tytoon for mixing him up with a stupid troll like steve. Not to say he isn’t a stupid troll, but..
How about esprit de corps and morale? Aren’t those worth displaying, or even fostering?
Certainly they’re 2 of the reasons why ILPB and I were agreeing about the Israelii military above!
Theres no such thing as Honour or Dignity in war.
Theres you dieing or the other guy dieing. No middle ground there
When you get to the point where the enemy is anyone and anywhere, Yes a good joke now and then no matter what humor is needed. Everyone needs a little moral boast now and then.
In Gentleman’s War It Was An Objective To Die For Thy Own Nation.
In Modern Warfare Its making the other bastard die for his
PB FTW: A) Only one Peanut Butter allowed and THAT’s ME!!!
B) So you’re telling me that the troops coming home should feel no honor? That the men who died, did not die honorably? HMMMM any Vets of FW wanna chime in here?
PB FTW: Without war evil would rule the day/world. Are you saying that there is no honor in fighting for and defending good?
“Without war evil would rule the day/world.”
Cite please. No, but seriously – are you absolutely certain?
War has never solved anything except…(link to T-shirt – read the back.)
Too bad it said “naziism”.
I know that war has had its points, I am not certain things would be shot to hell without it. I mean – I believe more in people than that, I guess.
Well I can’t argue with that. Sometimes it’s necessary is about as far as I’d go.
“I believe more in people than that, I guess.” I too believe in the good in people and believe that there is more “good” out there than bad, but the fact remains there are bad/evil people out there and because of this there will always be some sort of conflict be it war, protest etc.
Yes. I also think that war equally often cause all those things that we usually refer to as evil. I also believe that some sort of conflict will always be present. I also very, very much hope that we can move away from thinking the war form is as effecient as we seem to think today. It is a last minute, short term solution to problems at best, I believe.
And, yes, no matter how you turn it around, it causes a hell of a lot of death and suffering. :/
I’m not sure if I would agree with it always being a short term solution but I do agree that there is alot of death and suffering that accompany war.
Thinking about it more, I would say that it is not necessarily short-term always, but often enough for me to feel that we (humanity) have a tendency to take to war a bit too easily.
The short-termedness I am thinking of is mostly because I find it so sad that it’s a fairly common notion that you can bomb a country into becoming a democracy – bomb people into “thinking right”. I think war is often more “medicating the symptoms” rather than dealing with the actual disease. (And it’s a medication with some nasty side effects. :/ )
So yeah. I am totally against war, but pragmatic enough to realise that there’d be chaos if all “sensible and good” nations would stop all warfare today.
… and now I’m just rambling. :p
“Cite please. No, but seriously – are you absolutely certain?” Source would be me. That is my personal opinion. It doesn’t have to be from someone famous to be true does it?
“are you absolutely certain?” No. I don’t think that there is much, if anything in life that is absolute certainty…even in death some people belive that you come back in another form, body..whatever.
No, but you can’t state it as fact if it’s your opinion.
I will be sure to preface all my futher comments with “this is my opinion” lol.
Nah, just the ones containing your opinion.
Just don’t state it as fact- that’s where you’ll REALLY get in trouble. If it’s an opinion, I’d recommend “What I think is-” or “In my opinion”, maybe an “As far as I can see” if it fits the situation.
Famous, no. Intelligent and educated? YES!
“Famous, no. Intelligent and educated? YES!” If I take this to be derogitory then my reply is:
So if I post an “opionion” that you do not agree with I am not intelligent or educated?
If you are inferring that I am intelligent and educated….then I thank you very much
)
Deep’s usually pretty neutral, Semper. If he posts something that I take as derogatory, I usually get the reference later and think I’m an idiot. :/ Anyway, what I think he’s saying is that to be correct you needn’t be a celebrity- just intelligent and educated about the issue.
By the way… Is there a reason your name is Semper Fi double-D?
Former Marine…Semper Fidelis….dd=devildog…and I do agree with Deep.
I know about the Semper Fidelis bit, I was just hoping you were a large-breasted female instead of a devildog
I thought the “no, but seriously” gave away that I didn’t actually mean that you’d need to give sources. However, it was stated as a fact, which I will remain doubtful to it being, which caused that particular jocular remark.
No explanation necessary. It is Friday…all is good (this of course is my opinion
Though this is dumb: At least it ain’t Palin.
Here, here!
I dunno; even if we both think the other’s version is politically biassed, at least we both know that we both know modern history, yes?
Modern history, isn’t that like jumbo shrimp, working liberal, smart conservative?
I have no idea what this means.
Modern histroy is a oxymoron, just like jumbo shrimp, working liberal or a smart conservative…