ROLE MODEL
ROLE MODEL
Setting Women in Politics Back 50 Years
(Sarah Palin)
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OMGNO!!
I mean, I guess stupid lols comes in 3’s
Yeah, I gotta admit. This is beyond ridiculous. These aren’t even remotely funny.
Agreed. How about some laughs here?
wait when did alaska become a state? i missed that? i miss all the good stuff. like puberty
WTF guys? seriously?
PUNDITKITCHEN – FAIL
“I really wish I could get a LOL on the front page. Oh! I know! I’ll make fun of ! I’m such a genius!” — Quote by pretty much everyone on PK
*Sarah Palin, George Bush, or a Republican
Huh. I never knew that the comments randomly made text disappear from a comment when submitted.
You have to admit they make it easy.
Waaaayyyyy too easy, bless their pea-pickin’ gosh darn down to earth shucks a goshin’ hearts!
Did you include any < or > there?
They really should install a filter on how many “SARAH PALIN RESIGNED! ZOMG” LOLs that can appear on the front page.
Agreed. I thought this one was in slightly better taste than the last few, though.
but it’ll still end up with 9562194 comments all of them bashing one another and flaming.
can’t WAIT to read these comments… *shakes head in disgust*
I dunno, I DO enjoy myself a couple trolls each day. However, the people who refuse to relent and apologize, fling stupid insults and ignore evidence yet seem like logical, normal people annoy me.
Its the power of the internet. Its easy for people to make comments that have no meaning. Just type. Its also a lot easier to feel smug like you won an arguement online. I have a feeling a lot of the rudest posters would have some real problems having a real conversation in real life. Its probably why they sit at home on pundit kitchen all day….
Troll-bashing- dun-nun-da-dun!
Nation.
Nation….?
I see now.
Ya, maybe a little better, but this whole thing is getting irritating. Just because she quit being governor doesn’t mean she’s done with politics(hopefully not).
I agree. TOO MUCH, PK!
One can always hope though, can’t one?
Well if she doesn’t help head the GOP, who else is gonna?(were running out of options). I actually think the GOP would have done better with Palin as the president nominee, and had McCain as VP.
Uh, yeah, sounds like you guys are in the same rut the Democrats were in when we put up John Kerry. *shudder*
lol… classic
Hey, even most of us Democrats are willing to admit that a vote for John Kerry was really a vote AGAINST George Bush. We weren’t particularly impressed with him. Not to mention the fact that we were a bit alarmed that at the time HE was the best we could do.
And what part of the STL are you in, if you don’t mind me asking?
That’s how most of us Conservos felt about McCain. It was an “OMG, THIS is the best we’ve got?????” feeling that left you needing a shower after you left the polling place.
Exactly, I mean I don’t think we could have got a more moderate Conservative. They would have attacked Palin for not having enuf experience if she ha run for president though(Obama is just as inexperience).
I’m to the point that I refuse to compromise my morals again just because I dont’ think a third party will win. I’ve felt dirty ever since I voted this year…..so NO MORE!! Next time, I’m voting Kinky for Prez, even if he isn’t running!
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Having said that, I’m planning on crossing party lines this next gov’s election and doing just that. *grits teeth* I’m voting Democrat because I can’t stand the thought of another Useless Perry in the Governor’s Mansion, and I like Kinky. *goes to shower and hide from other Republicans*
Hey, crossing party lines is necessary when your own have failed you. I’ve done it before. I even *gulp* voted for W first time around. *sobs hysterically*
My daddy did too, Eric. My daddy did too. -Hugs- Now, any other confessions you need to make with the group?
I’m with you on that one, Froo! I say, “Vote for Pedro!”
i voted for reagan the first time and regretted it, almost voted for shrub sr and was relieved that he wasn’t as bad as he could have been, but i can honestly say that i only thought about voting for the shrublet for about 3 days. if jeb bush runs, i won’t vote for him either, but if he would have ran instead of the misunderestimated one, i would have seriously considered voting for him, but now….never
yeah, here’s how the last election went.
Obama – either corrupt or stupid
Biden – Retarded
McCain – Stupid
Palin – Great
It was depressing, when it was a choice of bad or worse.
And then the retarded popular agreement that [i]Palin,[/i] the only person in the [i]area[/i] who had [i]any[/i] merrit, it the person [i]everyone[/i] picks on. What do you do when you hate [i]both[/i] parties?
You should publish this brilliant essay.
And maybe look back at your comment after you publish it, then say “Oops, didn’t mean to type all those [i]’s, thought it would make it italics.”
Kind of brings the wrong type of emphasis to the words he meant to italicize doesnt it?
You stop letting everyone tell you that you have to vote for one of these two parties. You think for yourself and encourage others to, Don’t let the perpetually lies get you down. Educate, look at independents and libertarians.
what ARE you talking about?, palin sucked so bad se even made dubyah look good
“Palin sucked so bad”
Teehee.
Blow-jobs are like pizza. Even the [i]bad[/i] ones are pretty good. (See what I did there?)
STANDARDS – you don’t need to have any to have an opinion.
Or at least they should require the close-ups to be not quite so… well, close up.
Yeah- we can’t have women thinking for themselves and running something besides the vaccum cleaner, now can we?
I would rather someone run a vaccum than spread intolerance. That goes for men and women. Left and Right.
Well put.
I would too, good thing she doesn’t do that, or I wouldn’t like her.
Wow, you’re an idiot…
Yikes is not an idiot. Yikes just fails to agree with your opinion.
Two different things.
Thanks! We can all agree or disagree without resorting to name calling I think, or the terrorists have won.
But Yikes… Doesn’t that mean they already won?
sssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!
Its ok, they dont have the interwebz in their caves, they wont find out until the roaming mail hyena stops by the cave with the letter!
Amazing how those who decry intolerance are themselves intolerant of those with differing opinions.
I’m intolerant of you.
I’m tolerant of intolerance, but I’m intolerant of others’ intolerance of tolerance.
Wait, what?
There are two things that really make me mad. People who are intolerant of other people’s cultures, and the Dutch.
I’ll take the Dutch, you can can have the French.. how’s that?
What about Belgians? They share a border with the Dutch.
Fine, I’ll take the Belgians and Canadians… -grumble- You guys suck, always letting me pick last
Carnies! All of them! *sniffs for cabbage*
Yeah, as along as they bring waffles!
And their Paedo’s
Why do you hate the dutch? Other than doing some nasty things in the 17th century, I don’t see why.
It’s a movie reference. It’s a joke about how they actually *are* intolerant of other peoples’ cultures by hating the Dutch.
If you still don’t get it, you can watch the movie Austin Powers- Goldmember for the full context of the joke.
concurred.
she dosnet think for herself, she reads all them magazines….
oh no she just doesnt think
WTF?
I just wish I could be there to help her out there door….
you and me, both!!
Why don’t you guys go with her, don’t let the stimulus hit ya on the way out.
Ouch, with the size of that stimulus that could hurt!
Enough already.
I hate Palin, but this is getting ridiculous. We get it, she’s a dumbass. Overplayed.
Agreed, but I can’t help but giggle a little when I see one of these simply because the thought of all the flaming that will go on later entices me.
Oh for the love of… Not another “I can see Russia from here!” Sarah “The retard mother/slut mother/Republican whore/idiot/white trash family head/low-end discount flight stewardess-slut-wannabe” Palin pic!
Can’t this BITCH just go the hell away? GAWD!
Wow. I don’t like Palin, I don’t hide that, but you REALLY need to scream insults everywhere you go, don’t you? It’s not necessary to call her a “BITCH”, nor insult her family.
You’re a tward. Please have your medication adjusted ASAP.
That said, yes, the third damn not-funny Palin lol practically in a row is excessive and rantworthy.
Out of your six phrases separated by /s, I found three of them to be profoundly offensive – and I can’t stand the woman. It’s that kind of vitriol and vicious, mindless hatred that undermines the rest of us, when we try to present our rational – or at least less irrational – reasons for not supporting her. Please don’t.
Again, All you’re doing is giving people who support Palin ammunition to use against those of us who believe her to be incompetent and or mentally unstable.
You suck.
*sigh* Tyler says I’m not working for it, so I’m going to say you suck and you’re a dick sniffer.
YAY!
YO! I resemble that remark!
Y’know, I should’ve seen this coming.
I’m not a supporter of abortion, but in your case, I seriously believe your parents should have excerized that option.
*excersized*
Exercised.
Thanks! I’m having a bad spelling day..
Exorcised.
Abort joke, repeat abort joke!
Again is the poster child for birth control.
She’s not the one coming back, it’s the PK mods who are bringing her back. Placement of blame FAIL.
I’ll vote for her, she has to be better than the turd in the White House now!
Palin would do a much better job than Obama, though I don’t think resigning as governor was her greatest moment.
Pfft. Palin doing better than Obama? I think not.
Aaaaahahahahahahaha. Ahahahaha-hahaha-ha-ha.
Oh, oh god…. ahahaha. AHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Fu*king hell. Funniest thing I have read all day.
Man, you must ~really~ hate Obama.
Ahahaha. Tee-hee-hee.
No, I don’t “hate” Obama, he is a very smart man(how else would he have gotten into office). He is not good at running the country though(or picking VP’s, actually I’m glad he picked Biden, the man is hilarious). Obama is a pro at campaigning though, just not at governing.
Well, I guess we’ll see in a little while how it’s going. He’s only been around for 6 months.
I’ll give you that, but well know soon enuf what his spending(like a drunken sailor) has done.
I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt though and wait.
I don’t see how cutting spending now would really benefit anybody. A lot of you guys think that you can’t spend your way out of a recession. We’ll see about that.
Ya, well defiantly see
But heres and example,
if you spend all your money, what do you do…duh, stop spending!(not get yourself in more debt)
so you are not a follower of rep fiscal policy then??
cause thats all every republican pres has ever done. thats the trouble with a 2 term limit, the temptation to party like a madman and leave the hangover to some other putz is too tempting.
Go quit your job and then max out three credit cards. Then come back and tell me how that works for you…
That’s not a viable example. If, for example, he maxed out those cards on smart shares of stock and investment, then the example you give would be logical. As it is, you have to think about this- you’re spending money that is supposed to TRY and make you richer later. Not just buying 100 new designer handbags, or whatever you’re thinking.
Tyler, I think I love you. You’re nearly the only one here who uses logic and still manages to not offend anyone. You should be a politician. I’m voting Tyler in 2012.
Seriously though, you have to spend money to make money. The economy is fueled by spending, and if no one spends on anything, it collapses. What do you think happened during the depression? (I’m not saying this to you, Tyler. Just to general republic.)
“and still manages to not offend anyone”
Oh, but he does.
It’s like a rule 34 for offending – whenever someone says anything, there is always someone who is offended by it.
… I’m sure that rule already exists and already has a number, and I am sure someone will soon EDUMACATE me on what that is.
(And I will be thoroughly offended by that.)
he is a very smart man(how else would he have gotten into office).
I’m not going to make the joke, but that comment is an almost irresistible setup for W jokes.
Why do so many people think W was an idiot??
At least Bush knows we only have 50 states.
He’s not an idiot, he’s just not the usual version of intelligent.
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I’ve explained time and time again the “making up words” thing, and it doesn’t seem to matter. As someone (Diss?) pointed out recently, the overplaying of the small gaffes in the press and pundit system have made it out like he’s a flaming retard, the same way that overplaying 2 slips/trips made Gerald Ford out to be a bumbling fool.
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Bush is a good ol’ boy who made some bad decisions in his last three years. He’s by no means an idiot.
Agreed
I don’t think I can take credit, froo, but I do agree with you on that. I also suspect he may just be one of those people who’s not incredibly verbally adept, which doesn’t really indicate intelligence or lack of. Sometimes what you’ve got in your head gets mangled on the way to your mouth, and there’s people who do that more than others, almost like a verbal dyslexia, for want of a better term. (I’m sure there IS a term for it, I just don’t know what it is.)
There is a term, and I can’t remember it, LOL. My dad has it extremely bad, and it’s because his brain works faster than his mouth. He’s got a bad habit of starting a conversation halfway through and then looking at you like you’re an idiot because you don’t know what he’s talking about. Meanwhile, he’s had the first half of the conversation in his head already, and then has to go back and explain what his thought process was to get to where he started. Or, he will just end a sentence halfway through because his brain has already made it ten sentences ahead of his mouth and he forgets where he is. And he makes up words. Not as badly as GW has, but he does it. My dad has a doctorate, several Masters degrees, and at least one Bachelor’s (I cant’ remember if he has two), has been a college professor for most of his adult life, and is probably one of the smartest people I know. He has written several books, and is working on a history of Kentucky. His brain just works too fast for his mouth
It’s really adorable in an irritating, want-to-smack-him-sometimes sort of way 
I actually do something similar myself. I dont’ start in the middle of conversations, but I’ll see some random object, hear a song or whatever and start a conversation with something like, “Seeing that McDonald’s reminded me, I have to get my mom a bday card”
I don’t think Bush was an idiot, he just wasn’t president material. His whole style of governing was like that of the dude who lives next to you. He was friendly and approachable, that’s why people like him and voted for him. He was a nice guy, had his goofy moments, but he wasn’t fit to be president.
But he came across as an idiot. Which is not really great for any country to have for a figurehead. (Nor an argument, just a comment.)
Not*
Damn, but playing computer games all day makes my fingers really sloppy. :p
ummmm…. HELL NO!
Why don’t you guys just go ahead rename this site Huffington Post 2 or Daily Kos Wannabe?
Yes, because no one has commented saying they like it so far.
Nor do we own the site. Yayyy.
If you don’t own it, I wasn’t talking to you. What does someone liking it have to do with it? There are plenty of whackjobs out there that like Huffpo and Daily Kos. They aren’t interested in the truth, but they like those sites.
And plenty of whack jobs watch Fox News, listen Rush Limbaugh, and think Ann Coulter is the guardian of all truth. Stop acting like lefties are the nutjobs. There are plenty on both sides.
Both sides have whack jobs, cause they are strong in there beliefs, there called whack jobs from the other side of the political spectrum(and some of the weirdoes in there own party). That doesn’t mean they are(and at least our whacks actually think good of there country though).
Oh really? So liberals don’t like America? You suck, dude. Liberals love America. Which is why we want to make it better. Both sides want to make this a better nation. We just differ completely on how to do it. Mass generalization fail there, Droid. That’s a stupid attitude to have.
Okay, if Liberals like America so much, why are we such an arrogant nation?(true thats just Obama, but he’s the leader of the Democrats)
Because we ARE an arrogant nation. You’ve confused with patriotism with blind acceptance of everything our nation does. A true patriot wants to improve our country, not just blindly say that we’re awesome when things are going down the crapper. We have to look at ourselves and say things are not going well, and we truly are arrogant. I’m not suggesting we become humble to the rest of the world, but a little modesty wouldn’t hurt. Most of the liberals who say they hate America more accurately mean they hate to see what’s happening to it. I wouldn’t want to live anywhere else, and consider myself damn lucky to be born here. But I’m not gonna sit back and blindly support whatever our country does just because they stick a flag on it.
I was kind of wondering at what point acknowledging faults became “hating” something? I always kinda thought you find faults, recognize them, and fix them, because you care so much about what you’re changing, otherwise…. why try?
Going by the same philosophy of people who think that acknowledging and pointing out faults in the country hate it, you could also argue that people who go to a mechanic hate their car.
Very very true.
I love smart people. I’m wrapping you all in a warm bear hug. (Not Droid or ‘u no it’ though. Go to your room. You fail.)
I guess the arrogance is down to dipshits like you droid
Eric, stop saying “You suck, dude.” pleaassee?
We need better insults and you’re the only one who can think them up! You’re our only hope, Eric-wan!
I was hoping it would become my new catchphrase.
Nah, it’s too common. DWN’s were.. Sexual, yours needs to be creatively insulting.
Er, in the context of a thread about Sarah Palin, you’re going to have a pretty hard time supporting the claim that the Republicans’ “whack jobs” actually think good of their country. Remember that her campaigning was centered on the theme “other than the small towns, America sucks”.
That’s not that uncommon a theme for right-wing wackos in general, either. Certainly there are left-wing nutcases who hate the U.S., but the right-wing certainly has more than its share of America-haters.
…and Obama’s was the opposite.
Your point, then?
Not true. Obama never said anything remotely implying that small-town Americans are not real Americans, while Palin’s main point was explicitly that only small-town Americans are real Americans.
My point was that Palin deliberately directed her appeal at people who do not like America. Since Obama did not, he certainly held the advantage there.
Your point – that Obama did the same thing that Palin did, except with a different target – falls flat simply because it’s based on a false claim.
Are you and Paul the same person?
“other than the small towns, America sucks”. – Funny, I never saw that slogan anywhere, except here right now. Palin never actually insulted anyone like that, but Obama did, even though he did it in secret and got caught. When you say people are bitter and clinging to “guns and religion”, it’s not a compliment. Understand?
I don’t recall Palin having that slogan, but I do recall one week when she was ranking on cities and claiming that ’small towns are the REAL America’ or words to that effect.
Where in fact, the real USA is made up of all sizes of cities and towns…
Oh, and one more thing. Palin never campaigned outside the country the way Obama did on his great “apologize for America” tour. She also never bowed and scraped to foreign leaders which is insulting to most Americans. Just another way he is out of touch with the mainstream and it will come back to bite him in the arse IMHO.
Obama isn’t out of touch with the mainstream. Mainstream doesn’t only apply to America. We’re not the only country in the world. He was apologizing for arrogant people like you. America isn’t perfect, neither is any other country. That’s why we keep making improvements.
and again
4 out of 5 lincolns for this? lies…
Weird, especially considering that out of the 25 comments so far, nobody likes it.
Conspiracy!
*dons tinfoil cup*
I didn’t know they made those….is the conspiracy directed at your manparts, The Steve?
Considering the tinfoil is to keep people from reading thoughts, I think The Steve has made it apparent where his thoughts come from
:-p
Well, we suspected but he hasn’t come right out and said it before now.
It’s all your fault Jane, flaunting that bosom around here just gets me all riled up.
I just thought it made sense to protect the most valuable part of my anatomy. It seems darn near everything kills brian cells, what’s a few more lost to the mind reading ray?
Besides, reading my thoughts might be more dangerous for them than it is me!
Yeah, who are these losers that are voting this stuff up? Tell me where they live so I may TP their houses and soap their windows.
Bologna on their cars on a hot summer day…. Ohhh yeah.
That’s my darling evil mastermind!
When she was named McCain’s running mate I thought she wan probably the only woman in politics who could set women’s rights back 50 years by achieving the second highest office in the nation. Glad I wasn’t alone.
how do you figure… because she is against “doctors” sticking a knife up a womens vigina and cutting of the arms, legs and followed by the head of a baby. Let me ask you are you still pissed that Slave owners are denied their rights to own slaves.
That is not the most common method of abortion. It is quite rare.
I’ve seen you here before, this topic has already been covered…
because the other method is so humane. Force the baby out of the vagina and let it die a cold long dark death in a soiled-laundry closet. We have become such a advanced society.
“cold long dark death in a soiled-laundry closet.”
Wow, you’re really aiming for the heartstrings with this argument aren’t you? Can’t you use something besides emotions to convince me of your argument?
He could try religion? Does that pull any more heartstrings?
Not with a semi-intelligent agnostic, it doesn’t.
Didnt work on me either.
This really happened. No heartstrings about it.
That doesn’t mean it happens every time someone gets an abortion, and that’s what it sounds like he’s implying.
No. You’re inferring. There’s a difference.
Yeah… you really kicked his foot with your balls on that one Dick.
Made me laugh so hard I choked, damnit.
…and why is that?
I’d never heard the “kicked his foot with your balls” bit before.
Fair enough. There is a distinction between implication and inferrence, of course. I’m sure you are aware of that.
I am. But it was hilarious to me
Do tell.
*deep breath*
While I don’t personally approve of abortion, I don’t think that over-the-top melodramatic exaggeration is going to help your argument here. 89% of abortions are performed during the first trimester, 61% of those during the first 9 weeks of pregnancy. Nothing’s being ripped limb from limb or left to die slowly. Only 1.1% of abortions are performed after 21 weeks (the type of graphically horrible procedures you refer to) and sadly the great majority of those are babies that would never survive in the first place. Do you think women wait until the last trimester and then just go “Gee, you know…I’d rather have a convertible!” and go through a horrendous procedure like that for the hell of it?
Sorry: forgot to cite the source for the stats, which are for US abortions in 2004. {http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html
that’s great 89% in the first tri praise the lord I thought abortion killed babies…not just cells with human DNA. Heart Starts Beating at 5 weeks by the way. Rationalizing Murder or great society.
Ever eat meat, Steve? Cows and chickens and pigs have beating hearts too. Ever swat a fly? There goes another heart.
That makes you a murderer, by your own rather inane criteria. If you’d bothered to think AT ALL about those slogans you’re chanting, you’d have realized how idiotic they are.
Cow- 60 pairs of chromosomes (not human…not murder)
Chicken-78 pairs of chromosomes (not human…not murder)
Fly (fruitfly)-8 pairs of chromsomes (not human… not murder)
I must of gone to college or somthing… guess I dont know how to think though
LOL. Can’t keep up, huh?
You might want to try that college thing – you might learn how to argue your point. Of course you’d have to face the fact that the arguments that have apparently convinced you are arguments that are completely invalid.
I’m pretty sure college students don’t get very far if they misspell everything like steve does. And that grammar must have made for some lousy grades on his essays.
I’m a college professor, and have been for 22 years.
I’ve failed quite a few people like Steve. Even were he able to write properly, you can’t pass my classes when you can’t tell a tightly circular argument from a valid one. He’d be the kind of student who gets a note at midterms gently suggesting that he drop the course while he can still get some money back.
-Giggles at Paul, then applies to his college-
Can you really get money back for dropping courses before midterms?
Thanks, Paul, that was worth a LOL.
thanks Im glad you can judge like this.
No problem.
I put a lot of time and effort into learning how to judge properly, and I’m happy to have the opportunity to use my skill for the good of the country.
Way to avoid responsibility, Paul. Force ‘em out instead of offering assistance.
I’m sure that keeps your grade averages high.
If you ever did that to anyone I knew, I’d turn your ass in.
Turn his ass in for…. failing someone who cant keep up in higher education? Or giving them the option bow out before their terrible grade ruins the grade point average, possibly costing them financial aid and what not… What a responsible adult you must be.
GPA doesn’t ruin financial aid.
Dropping below enrollment does.
An “F” is the same as a “W” as far as financial aid is concerned.
Turn him in for general douchebaggery.
Probably just fails them for not understanding how socialism is better than capitalism and Americans are all trash. Typical for modern universities these days.
Encouraging a culture of quitters, too.
Could I get tickets for when you go into a university and try to turn someone in for general douchebaggery. God I wanna see that.
Honestly, did you two even go to college? It’s not, and it shouldn’t be, high school with mommy and daddy holding your little hands. My very first class my freshman year the professor told us that freshmen didn’t get A’s in his class because they couldn’t possibly have the knowledge and life experience necessary to produce A level work. It was a class for freshmen only. Life sucks, people are unfair, and when you finally go out in the workforce chances are a good percentage of your bosses are going to be pricks.
A real college professor would never write a friendly little note asking someone to leave their class. Ever.
Major universities have ombudsmen and attornies general in upper administration for just this sort of crap.
Let’s discuss lawsuit, k-now?
Id rather talk lawsuit with someone who thinks someone telling them they need to work harder or GTFO coming back with “My lawyers say otherwise.” I come from a long line of educators, and Ive seen a lot of young, arrogant kids have their life and character value pissed away because they, their parents, and their lawyers thought they could compensate for hard work, dedication, and concentration.
High school and college are such a short period in young people’s lives where their effort in their work will reflect more on their life than any other thing they can do. They need to realize you cant go back, and you cant do it over. And once its done, you never have to do it again. And if you did it right, it wont haunt you for the rest of your life.
rather not talk*
You’re preaching to the choir, and I agree. I wish those hyper-protective entities weren’t necessary, but the fact remains. Attitudes such as this simply exacerbate the entitlement-mentality problem.
However, it’s not always that simple. Secondary education these days simply does not prepare students for the level of rigor required at university. Most students come in with the best intentions, but simply do not have the skill-set required for success.
Having said that, I’ve seen a lot of freshmen who, with a little extra assistance in time management, individual tutoring and mentoring, have gone on to successful careers in the life and health sciences.
Assistance in time management, yes, that is what they need. Thats why there’s academic counselors. Its not the professor’s job to teach these kids to be responsible, colleges have people for that.
Professors instruct FAR too many students to have a super hemophiliac bleeding heart for the 3 or 4 who could take the proper channels to better themselves.
Actually, Dick, a poor GPA can ruin financial aid if you have a private scholarship, which I had. And dropping below full time hours can hurt your aid, IF you were taking the minimum numbers of hours per semester.
Academic advisors/counselors ARE professors/instructors.
Assisting students in succeeding is part of the job.
Notes requesting they leave the class are evidence.
Nevertheless, an “F” and a “W” are equal in the eyes of the office of Financial Aid and Scholarship services.
They mean NO credit for the class.
And most universities offer precious few uncontested withdrawals — you can’t just take a “W” everytime you start to slide in a class.
Academic advisors are NOT professors. They have very specific jobs. And you know that. Or at least you should, if you’ve been to college. Just like how you should know that your GPA can hurt financial aid. Which leads me to believe something….. hmm…..
I’m both. I instruct and advise.
If you use up all your uncontested W’s, sounds like you need to spend more time on time management and self discipline than schoolwork.
Two in four years isn’t a whole hell of a lot.
Not all instructors have the leisure or the option to be an advisor to every student they teach. And I stick with my original argument, if you tried to “turn in” Paul, you’d look like an idiot.
Exactly, and college isnt High school. Step up or GTFO.
Hmm. Nesting issue.
I have 160 advisees ASSIGNED to me. And I instruct.
Spoken like a true dropout.
I may look like an idiot, but I’m fine with that.
It’s poor mentoring. Period.
Just because Im right and you were wrong doesnt mean Im a dropout. Im sorry I hurt you enough for you to resort to personal attacks and assumptions, if this is how you “mentor” then I feel sorry for your students.
Hmm. Interesting nesting.
Eric: I am aware of scholarship GPA requirements, but we were talking about financial aid and not specific scholarships, which can set their own GPA requirements.
If you lose your federal financial aid package in my state, that means you are no longer even elligible to be at the university, period. At my university, that’s a 2.0, and my students are required to maintain a 3.2 to be elligible in my program, so I’ve not ever been confronted with that situation.
Where did I attack you personally? I simply said your verbiage was reminiscent of a true dropout. And it is.
I wouldn’t feel too sorry for my mentees.
They seem content.
Internet memes are no grounds to make an educational assumption, considering even the most enlightened and intelligent residents here on these boards use them.
I made absolutely no aggressive movements towards you, yet you decided to try to make a statement about me. It makes you look silly, and it also seriously hampers everyone’s ability to take you seriously about your “mentoring” skills.
And your statement about GPA levels only reinforce my point. Paul deals with students who can get in over their heads, and he has to tell them so. The institution you work at obviously sets a standard to enroll in the program, so you will not encounter the situations he deals with on such a constant basis.
…and Paul will get called on the carpet for it eventually. Putting that sort of thing in a “note” is “evidence.”
Why would I “care” if “you” take “me” seriously.
You didn’t call me out? That’s amusing.
“What a responsible adult you must be.”
Here, your keyboard seems to be broken. I have many apostrophes, and would be glad to loan you a few, since you seem to agree that your grammar, spelling and punctuation on an internet forum is indicative of your intellectual ability.
Or are you wasting those apostrophe marks on unnecessary quotes elsewhere in your postings?
”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge. –Stephen Hawking
Well he’s been doing what he’s doing for 22 years as he stated. He’s obviously not getting called onto the carpet for being honest with his students.
Also if you’d like I can start to put my apostrophes in my sentences. I usually don’t, but tonight I’ll be generous. But just tonight, that’s all!
And I previously stated that trying to make me look stupid only shows you’re out of factual arguments so you’re left with nothing but grasping for straws.
“I want to turn someone in for not teaching the way I do”
“That’s not a smart idea, you’ll look like a fool.”
“YOU’RE DUMB”
Thanks to you… thats what our discussion turned into.
…as he stated. Because you know him personally?
Did you read his post, where he mixes pronouns while denouncing someone else for writing improperly?
You jump on his bandwagon, and expect not to be called out for using improper grammar/syntax/punctuation?
Sad, really, your gullibility, and lack of logic.
We have an excellent college-success workshop for assisting to overcome that problem. Here’s the website, and I’ll need confirmation that you’ve taken the class so you can retain ellgibility for this program.
On second thought, you failed to step up, so GTFO.
————————————————————————–
Internet. It’s serious business.
*you
Actually, Maxwell, my advisor was an associate professor. Dick’s either legit or a pretty decent bullshitter…who stole my insult, dammit!!!!
I couldn’t possibly resist, Eric.
Thank you for the handle.
FWIW, student advocacy is extremely important to me.
I didn’t say MSH was wrong, I merely said I wouldn’t stand for a unilateral dismissal of my students as inferior, particularly in such a dismissive and gauche manner, regardless of the status of the professor attempting to do so. It’s demoralizing to a student to be treated in such a manner. I say to Paul: Have the cojones to call a student into your office to have the discussion, if you deem it necessary.
And it totally pisses me off that old-school tenured profs think that sort of crap is acceptable. Students are individuals, and should be treated as such, particularly considering the exorbitant cost of post-secondary education in this economy.
For the record: I don’t BS my advisees. Most of them want to go on to professional school, so coddling them and falsely-inflating their egos is doing them a disservice.
Max, I do agree with what you’re saying in this argument. What I don’t agree with is the fact that you’re taking someone with the name Dick S.Niffer so seriously. Good to know the college that he claims to be a professor at makes a habit of hiring such mature individuals such as himself.
Instructor. Obviously you’re a General Studies major.
Oh, and I’m sure Maxwell Silverhammer is a murdering tool just as much as I’m a Dick S. Niffer.
LOLs at steve the college guy who uses the word “of” instead of “have”.
“I must OF gone to college.” Are you fu(king serious? Really?
“Way to avoid responsibility, Paul. Force ‘em out instead of offering assistance. I’m sure that keeps your grade averages high. If you ever did that to anyone I knew, I’d turn your ass in.”
To who, asshole? I offer assistance, and never even implied that I didn’t.
If you really worked at a college, you’d know that part of advising students involves helping those who are unprepared for coursework to go back and get the kind of help they need. What you’re suggesting amounts to stealing from those students. I’m not a thief – you apparently are, douchebag.
“A real college professor would never write a friendly little note asking someone to leave their class. Ever.
Major universities have ombudsmen and attornies general in upper administration for just this sort of crap.
Let’s discuss lawsuit, k-now?”
You have no clue what you’re talking about. Of course you can sue for anything, but if you try to sue a professor for sending a note suggesting that you drop a class that you’re failing, you’ll get exactly nowhere.
You just made up this obviously ridiculous nonsense because you’re angry that someone on your side of the abortion issue was so thoroughly embarrassed. If I still had any respect for the anti-abortion rights movement, you’d have taken that level of respect down a notch with your arrogant, ignorant comments here.
Paul, you’re obviously out of touch with reality.
Phew! I’m glad I went to colleges where my professors used knowledge to help students excel and build convincing arguments, rather than using it to flaunt their positions and supposed superiority.
“I say to Paul: Have the cojones to call a student into your office to have the discussion, if you deem it necessary. ”
I’m sure you noticed that “Dick Sniffer” simply invented the claim that I don’t help students. I never said anything remotely implying that I do not.
I will never be “called on the carpet” for writing the kind of note I described, because it’s perfectly legitimate to do so. He’s simply making up all of that nonsense about it being a basis for a lawsuit.
He seems to be strongly implying, on occasion, anyway, that I am not really a college professor. He’s wrong about that – I am. His comment about my having mixed pronouns refers, I assume, to the sentence in which I referred to Steve in some places and to students in my classes in general in other places. My pronoun choices were correct – he simply wasn’t following along properly in his reading. Of course he might have been referring to something else in my writing – I DO make mistakes – but I’ll bet it was that passage. If so, he’s the one who made the error.
I do discuss students’ progress with them. Now, “Dick Sniffer”, I challenge you to have the cajones to admit that you’re just making up that stuff about the kinds of notes I write being a basis for a lawsuit. I know you’re just making it up. You know you’re just making it up. All of the readers here know you’re just making it up. Be an adult, and admit it.
Agreed. Me too.
Paul typifies the “arrogant ass” tenured professor mentality.
He wont because he cant Paul. I already “called him out onto the carpet” And all he could muster was some kind of personal attack and then used the exact same meme he tried to vilify me for using. He’s lost, going in circles, and the only ones defending him are the one’s who shared his view on abortion. Its just that simple.
Uhhmmm, no.
Paul being an arrogant asshole has nothing to do with the fact I am totally pro-choice and always have been.
Yo Maxwell — Have you read all his posts? He really is acting like a pompous ass, political ideology aside. I wouldn’t want to take a class from him with his disrespectful attitude toward those less knowledgeable and thus inferior to him.
It doesn’t change the fact that they all have hearts. That was one of the points you stated.
Exactly. Thanks for clarifying.
Paul and your little buddy- you give great creadance to the old wise saying, “A fool is bound for his own destruction, and he will inevitably destroy everything in his path. Those who get in the way of the fool will get hurt.” I have given scientifict fact after fact as to what makes a human, human . you have not produced substaning evidence to prove me other wise (only pointless insult, which says you have no point). I pity your students (if in fact you are a teacher), they should ask for a refund. I wash my hands of you.
You shouldn’t wash your hands of a teacher, especially if you (evidently) never took an English class as a child. You have given evidence as to what makes a humans humans, but not in relation to a fetus, a collection of cells. Also, you say we shouldn’t kill fetuses, that (usually) cannot register or respond to pain in any way, because their hearts beat? Then, by your logic you should not eat most animals, because their hearts beat and they can actually REGISTER pain. Might wanna write that one down, dude. It’s generally a good idea not to forget the bullshit you spew, no matter how bad it tasted at the time.
I personally would like to know who in the world said that wise old saying? Never heard it, and not only that but its kinda windy for a wise saying, wise men are usually succinct and to the point… or at least clever. Everyone knows a fool is going to destroy himself and has the potential to do so to whoever around them. That wise old man who had that saying wasnt by chance… Captain Obvious was it?
I think his use of ‘hearts’ is merely stating when he feels the fetus is alive rather than just using it as an argument that ‘OMG IT HAS HARTS!’. So, basically, he is naming the fetus as human and saying it is alive when it has a heartbeat. This means it is murder, because you are killing a human. At least, I think that is his argument.
As for me, I personally don’t agree with abortion just because I can’t see how anyone can have the choice whether someone lives or not. It doesn’t even matter to me if the person is going to come out deformed or something. While sad when that happens, I view the decision to abort as playing God and I don’t think anyone should have that authority. Which is why I also don’t believe in the ‘electric chair’.
” I have given scientifict fact after fact as to what makes a human, human .”
No, you haven’t done that at all. In fact, the fact that you believe that _could_ do that demonstrates your deeply mistaken understanding of science. Science does not tell us what the correct label for a thing is. Saying that science can show that an embryo is a human being is akin to saying that science can show that the hurricane that hit New Orleans a few years ago was really named “Doris”, not “Katrina”.
You’re sitting there thinking that you’ve said something that demonstrates that you’re right, but the reality is that you’ve simply repeated your assertions over and over again without providing any support whatsoever. Your basic problem is your narrowmindedness – you’re incapable of imagining that you could be wrong, so you make a statement and then believe that making the statement is evidence that the statement is true. You share that shortcoming with most of the anti-abortion rights movement, incidentally. Most of the people in that movement are convinced that it has been demonstrated that “it’s a human being from conception”, and so manage to convince themselves that those of us who do not agree with that assertion are somehow accepting murder of human beings. Of course we are doing no such thing – we do not agree that a fertilized egg, or a stem cell, or an early-term embryo IS a human being. Since no-one has given us any good reason to equate any of those things with “human being”, we do not. Repeating the claim over and over again is not remotely the same as demonstrating that it’s true.
Let’s look again at your claim: “I have given scientifict [sic] fact after fact as to what makes a human, human”.
There it is in plain black-and-white: question-begging sits at the very heart of your argument, and you’re completely unaware of it.
As for your insinuation that I am “a fool”, I obviously am not. Nor have I caused any destruction. Your decision to resort to unwarranted personal attacks was a bad one, kid. I’m the one on the high ground here, both morally and factually, and you can’t change that by slinging mud.
Fruitfly 4 Chromosomes
If it is your goal to portray yourself as intelligent, it is advised that you fact check before posting.
Note: I am not claiming that I happened to know that off the top of my head. I looked these things up for two reasons, 1 to see if steve was right, and 2 to illustrate that it’s pretty easy to look up a few random facts online for the purpose of portraying yourself as educated.
Hermit Crab… 254 chromosomes.
OH SNAP.
So, as long as the number of chromosomes doesn’t match ours, they have no right to live? Doesn’t matter if they’re self-aware, if they can feel pain, if they form relationships… it’s just that one number that makes them have value as a living thing?
Ridiculous.
I have 160 advisees ASSIGNED to me. And I instruct.
I am a division manager! I drive a Dodge Stratus! I can do a hundred push-ups in 20 minutes!
I’m sorry, that’s all I could think off. I love that SNL skit…
Think of. Not think off. My bad…do comments nest below this post?
Nope…no they don’t…
I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.
I like turtles.
tut tut, got put all that stuff on dirt for us to use, we are special, and made in his image.
now, sarah and steve are dumb, so maaaaaaaaybe
god is dumb!
and even a little ugly on the side
But that doesn’t tell the whole story, because late-term abortions are illegal in most states. If you examined states where they’re legal, and scaled that number up to the entire US population, what would it then look like? (Keeping in mind we’d have to adjust for demographics, availability, etc. — Kansas isn’t exactly teeming with non-whites, and that makes a big difference.)
I could be going out on a limb here, but as someone who actually has a uterus, I feel comfortable assuming that most women would rather do pretty much anything besides going through with a late term abortion. I can think of few things that would be more horrible to endure. I would rather get cancer (again) than go through something like that.
Oh no, the dreaded uterus card! Dare I speak?
Your personal assumptions don’t seem to be universal. Tiller did a brisk business — he died quite a rich man, you realize. And the Illinois FOCA hearings revealed that live-birth abortions are not a rare occurrence in that state.
Go ahead and speak, but you’ll never be able to comprehend the actual choices that women make in relation to pregnancy. It’s biology.
Not that you’ve provided a cite for what represents “brisk business,” but such numbers may be disporportionate anyway, since there are few doctors in the country who perform these procedures.
Look, if you’re just going to declare whatever I say to be invalid on the basis of magical woman brain bits or whatever, tell me now and save me the effort. (Or cite an actual biologist who advances your point.)
Here’s the quickest number I could dig up: Tiller donated at least $35,450 to the re-election campaign of the current governor of Kansas.
And, as I alluded to before, groups overrepresented in abortions (poor women, particularly poor black and Hispanic women) are demographically underrepresented in the Wichita area. Cross-country travel, particularly to the middle of nowhere, is likely not an option for many women who’d otherwise have the procedure. That’s why I suspect his particular numbers underestimate rather than overestimate.
@ Dhoti – I didn’t say that men don’t have a right to speak their thoughts on abortion, I said that they could never really comprehend the choices that a pregnant woman is faced with. That said, I also don’t think that a woman who has not yet been pregnant or had an abortion can ever really know what that’s like, either. However, all women capable of bearing children could potentially find themselves in such a position, whereas a man could not.
With regard to your citation, I wasn’t particularly interested in how much money Tiller made, but rather how many procedures he performed. Also, if a woman was in a situation where she had to have a late-term abortion, I imagine she would be forced to travel, with the alternative being giving birth. I scanned a few articles about Tiller which gave examples of the predicaments which his patients found themselves, and I can only say that I’m glad that the women who had to go through something so horrible had a doctor who could provide them with medical and emotional support.
@Paul – I didn’t claim magical insight. Perhaps I should have made my point more clear. I’ll use an analogy. Several years ago I had cancer. Although prior to the experience, I could try to imagine and empathize with people who had cancer, I really didn’t know what it was like, or how I would behave should I get such a disease. In conversation, one friend mentioned to me that if he had cancer, he wouldn’t seek treatment, he’d allow himself to die because he believed it would be “his time to go.” It’s all very well for him to express his opinion, but the truth is, he doesn’t really know what he would do – and he won’t know until he’s sitting on the table and a doctor tells him he’s got a terminal disease.
@ diss – again, I didn’t say the man should not be allowed input, I said he would never understand what it’s like to make the choice, because it’s biologically impossible. And ultimately, even if he agrees with the woman to go through with an abortion, she bears the full and ultimate responsibility for the act. The right for a woman to choose comes at a very high price, which can only be paid by the woman. I think I addressed the last portion of your post above.
Sorry if I was unclear last night.
No worries; I think I read more into it than what you were actually saying. And I agree with what you said below (Saddest topic ever).
I’ve got to agree with Dhoti about the “you can’t understand what it’s like” argument. We’re all individuals, with individual reasons for holding the positions we hold. Women genuinely* disagree with each other about abortion, so whatever it is that affects a woman who is pregnant clearly does not give them some kind of magical insight into a deeper reality.
* By “genuinely” I mean “not simply because some man is telling them what to think”. We need to give women on both sides of the debate more credit than that – even the ones who we disagree with.
I’m quite sure that something about being pregnant directly affects women’s sensibilities about abortion, but that’s also true of the effects of all experiences on the beliefs and stances those experiences affect.
The question of whether someone other than the woman herself has the right to tell a woman whether to continue or abort her pregancy is an entirely different matter, and I think it’s very important to keep those two arguments separated. A woman’s right to control her body is not conditional on some special understanding that being pregnant gives her. It’s a basic right. If it required some special understanding, would we deny it to women who clearly do not have the ability to have that understanding? (e.g., those with some mental deficit?).
I missed out on a lot of this last night…I tried to post from my phone, but the darn page was too long so it failed.
Anyway, SB, you know I respect your opinion, but I have to take issue with the concept that only the enuterused have a right to opine on abortion. First of all, although clearly a woman who learns she is pregnant has a more immediate vested interest in the process over the next year than the father, should the pregnancy be successfully carried to term, you’re BOTH going to be parents for, hopefully, the rest of your lives (unless your child predeceases you). While due to the inherent risks and all I would say that the woman has the greater immediate interest and therefore perhaps the deciding vote, I think it’s inequitable to say that the man should have no input or opinion on the issue. Second, while only (about) half of us have a uterus, every single one of us started our lives in one. We’re all uterus alumni. And finally, as someone who’s given birth to four children, I can say with some certainty that until you’re pregnant and give birth, you don’t really fully “get” the concept, like many other things in life. You can learn about it, you can visualize and imagine, but you’re not really going to comprehend it until you personally experience it. On that argument, women who haven’t already borne children can’t really understand, either. Do they not get to have an opinion on abortion?
Reply above, bad nesting on my part.
Also, may I say, saddest topic ever.
To some extent that was because of unavailability elsewhere. While I have statistics on this, I have heard some anecdotal accounts of women in other states faced with perfectly horrible decisions regarding whether to have a late-term abortion or face giving birth to a child whose life would be painful, miserable, and short due to horrific birth defects, and who have to also deal with traveling to someplace like Tiller’s and then walk the gauntlet of protesters. This in order to do something that’s probably heartbreaking for the vast majority of them.
I will add that I think there should be a genuinely significant medical reason for any abortion after 12 weeks.
No doubt that’s a horrible situation — and from the other side, remember that a lot of the pro-life folks are anti-euthanasia, too — but, and I don’t mean to sound heartless, I make it a rule to ignore those kinds of boundary cases when I’m thinking about an issue.
Dhoti, I’ll be right up front and say that I don’t have statistics on the reasons for late-term abortions, but my gut feeling is that very few of them are for convenience, financial, or other spurious reasons. It’s a lot easier to depersonalize a fetus you can’t see or feel; I can’t even fathom a woman carrying a pregnancy past the halfway point, where it’s moving and kicking and obviously very much human, and deciding to terminate without a genuine, horrible, gutwrenching reason. I’d also be inclined to say that anyone who would do that without a damn good reason would be a spectacularly horrific parent. When I say “damn good reason”, for example she just learned that the baby’s lungs aren’t ever going to develop properly and it’s going to spend a few short weeks lingering painfully gasping for breath in the neonatal ICU before dying; mom just learned she has cancer and her only hope for survival is to start chemo immediately, that kind of thing.
What really bothers me, as above with Steve’s comments, is when people use the bogeyman of the late-term procedures as an argument against abortion, when to my mind, in reality, those are both the tip of the iceberg statistically and very often also the ones that are most ethically justifiable. There’s plenty of good, cogent arguments against abortion in general, but “pro-choice people just want to rip babies limb from limb” ain’t one of them. [/wall of text rant]
You said it better than I did, diss.
SB, how old ARE you? Sorry for asking, but I never knew that and… Well, that sucks. I’m sorry it happened. I always assumed you were about 25-27, and for me, that just makes my eyes go O.O if you had cancer at that age.
I’m 33. I was 24 when I got sick…(wow, can’t believe it’s been almost ten years!). I’m fine now though.
/hug
Even though you’re double my age, you’re still hotses
<— Is omnisexual. (Has sex with everything, at all times, constantly.)
Thanks doll
We’ve been over this, Tyler. None of us are having sex with you.
Always one to shoot me down, eh Eric?
Yes, I should state for the record that there will be no sex. NO SEX FOR TYLER!
Oh, there is ALWAYS sex for Tyler.
He just hasn’t found it yet.
Teenage boys are soooo predictable.
Oh, come on, that’s so unfair.
It’s not like we get more complicated as we get older!
Thank you PM.
That made me LOL ’cause it’s true.
Of course! And if I had a nickel and I scaled it up, it would actually be ONE MILLION DOLLARS!!!
YESSSSS!!! I’m a MILLIONAIRE!!!1!!!!1!
You are a seriously sick individual.
No, that actually happened, so it’s not like he made it up.
What on earth is your problem?
My problem is if you look at what Palin has done for the advancement of women rights it is far beyond any of her peers and yet abortionist knock her because she doesn’t believe in killing individuals without a voice. That is my problem.
I’ve been a vegan for quite some time, because I have a strong sense of respect, reverence and sympathy for living creatures.
Even *I* don’t see a problem with abortions. Fetuses are a collection of cells, just like everything else. They are not sentient, they are not self-aware. I can’t see how they have any ‘rights’ to live, until they’re born they’re literally a growth inside a sentient being. If that being doesn’t want to produce a sentient human from that lump of cells, it shouldn’t have to.
“Oh, but it has the potential to be a human… it’s becoming a human… it’s a human until someone intervenes!” I hear you cry. Yeah? Every ovary I have produced is a potential human. Every sperm is a potential human. What of it?
“Oh, but they are human, they’re alive…” If you really believe that, I’m not able to tell you you’re wrong. I’d be interested to know when they suddenly ‘become’ alive, in your opinion.
CELLS are living things. Plant cells, animal cells, bacteria… alive.
Give me an argument I can’t refute.
So there’s not some point in the gestational process where the idea becomes repellent to you? *is curious*
I’d say until the heartbeat, maybe the first bit of the frontal lobe that forms.. Unless that’s too soon to actually say women will know about the baby, then I don’t think that’d work, but I’d say that the heartbeat pretty much does it for me. :/
What is it about those features that endow human-ness? And why, the day, say, before one of those particular features appears (I know that’s not exactly how it works, but go with me on this) is it any different, when it would appear the next day?
That’s a valid point, Dhoti- but the problem is that I’m just stating, personally, What point I would be unable to abort at, and what would make the situation too “real” for me- It seems to me that aborting something sentient, which makes me think about the heartbeat for some reason, is worse than aborting a child (if it’s to keep the mother’s life intact, by the way- I’m not for people fully ready to have children getting abortions because they don’t feel like it, but chose to have unprotected sex anyway- or at least, 99.99% of them did.) if it’s not really formed yet, if it doesn’t know what consciousness feels like, and I don’t think we have the right to force a woman to have a child- it’s a horrid alternative, I’ll give you that, but I’m not going to interfere with a woman’s life and force her to potentially stop doing what she wants because she had a child before she was ready. But anyway, remember that I’m not, by any means, speaking of what I think should be law, because I’m not sure about that, but what choices I *think* I would make in my own, personal life. Just because for me, if the child has a mother that doesn’t want it, we’re already having population issues, and it’s too young to really have formed any consciousness, independent systems, or anything, just seems to me to be more… Humane. :/ Not trying to go in circles, Dhoti, but trying to clarify. Sorry.
But humans are born so mentally undeveloped — the child is almost certainly sentient before it has the ability to express it, but there are likely months, possibly a year or more, after birth when it’s not sentient. If that’s true (and any child psychologists, feel free to correct me), how are the two different?
Unless you mean the ability to feel pain, because that seems to come much, much earlier. (But still, you could argue pain doesn’t matter if the brain’s not sophisticated enough to register and respond to it.)
“Hm… You make good points here, Dhoti. I was researching it and for some reason thought that the actual feature that would stop me in my tracks is actually around weeks 8/9/10- The heart thing might make me pause if it wasn’t going to royally f*ck my life, but the thing that would just force me to have it is the formation of the fingers and when neurons begin to multiply rapidly- because to me, that would indicate an ability to at least, if not sentient… Experience and respond to the world around it. I dunno, but it just seems to me babies that aren’t developed enough to register pain in their brains haven’t become fully… Human yet. A huge part of living as a human is pain, and the things we live through, and if it can’t really feel that then it might just sever my connection- it seems to me that if you can’t register any pain whatsoever (emotional, physical, etc) then you might as well be a fish, because you haven’t joined the ranks of humanity yet. I dunno, I’m a bit weird, but does that make any sense Dhot?”
Is what I was trying to post. But forgot a certain asterisk.
Fair enough. I just think that, wherever in the spectrum you end up landing, it’s important to challenge your assumptions, think about *why* you believe what you believe, and see where that takes you. Especially for a smart, open-minded kid.
My recent tragedy has made me rethink my opinions on abortion. And my feelings are this. I usually consider the heartbeat to be the beginning. But I find it offensive to suggest that until the baby is born it has no right to live. At 20 weeks my daughter came out looking like a human being, only much smaller. A tiny, beautiful, perfect creature. So yeah, it’s a baby. It’s not a collection of cells or some underdeveloped creature.
On the other hand, I’m not about to tell any woman what they can or cannot do with their body. It’s a baby, but it’s intruding on someone else’s property.
So essentially, I have to side with pro-choice. But I do it begrudgingly. I hate abortion with a passion. In a perfect world there would be no need for it. I pray that people take as many precautions as possible to avoid unwanted pregnancies.
That’s all I got.
I’m fascist enough to want forced sterilizations for everyone until they pass a test to have kids. We have enough crack whores squirting out babies who end up in a broken system and neglected to the point of death to put up with it.
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*hugs for Eric* I sympathize with you, Eric. I can’t even imagine how hard that must have been. And I’ll be honest, since coming to PK and seeing the other side of things, my views on abortion have changed a bit as well. I’m still pro-life, but not as firmly as I once was. I see now that there are certain circumstances where there is just no choice, and it’s heart-wrenching when you have to do something you don’t in your heart want to do.
I feel awful for any mother who has to abort their child for their own health. Despite what some on here might think, any mother who aborts for her own well-being is NOT going to feel good about it later and should not be looked down upon. My wife feels horribly guilty about something she couldn’t have prevented and if she had tried would have killed both her and the baby. These mother deserve sympathy, not condemnation. In my heart, I’m pro-life. In my mind, I’m pro-choice.
As for the first part of your post, every time I hear about a mother or father abusing, neglecting, or killing their child it makes my blood boil. How on earth is it okay for those people to have a perfectly healthy child to destroy, but ours was taken away? (And anyone who would dare say “but you already have two” can save me some trouble and kick their own ass)
I’m rambling a bit, I know, but my basic point is abortion is a horrible thing that we can’t get rid of. I wish we could, but we can’t.
Eric, please allow me to kick their asses FOR you.
Eric, I know a few folks who work in at-risk pregnancy counseling, and that’s lines up pretty well with what they think and what they hear.
That was beautifully said. I don’t agree that the heartbeat is that important a line of demarcation, but I agree with everything else that you said here, Eric. Nicely put.
We’d do a lot better to talk about the “unwanted pregnancy problem” rather than the “abortion problem”, I think. At least I’d like to believe that everyone would agree that it’s good to avoid unwanted pregnancy.
And as to your “I’m begrudgingly pro-choice” point — I guess what worries me is that a lot of the pro-choice activists aren’t that way, even though they say they are. I got really scared when I saw Sanger and Planned Parenthood’s roots in the eugenics movement and the population bomb scare, and in the back of my mind I can’t help feeling that these groups are deliberately trying to reduce the number of brown kids out there. (Look at diss’ numbers, upthread somewhere, and have you ever seen a Planned Parenthood in a nice neighborhood?)
The Planned Parenthood closest to me is right next door to a Sylvan Learning Center, down the street from the largest shopping/restaurant center in the area. However, I do feel that’s probably an exception not the norm.
What do the surrounding area’s demographics look like? (I can think of some upscale shopping complexes that are essentially massive blocks in otherwise poor areas, and some where the neighbors put the mall to shame.)
The nicest location I can think of here is in a now-gentrifying neighborhood…that used to contain a huge and infamous housing project.
It’s not the ritziest neighborhood. I’d say solidly middle class.
I’m fascist enough to want forced sterilizations for everyone until they pass a test to have kids.
The biggest problem I see with that particular philosophy is it’s very much like when passing a “literacy test” was a requirement to vote. It seems harmless and seems to make sense but it was used as a way to silence the voices of minorities. Except now it could be used as a gradual method of ethnic cleansing. Also, making abortions illegal won’t stop women from getting them. It just means they’ll have to go for the extremely dangerous and unhealthy back alley coat hanger abortions.
The closest planned parenthood in my area is right downtown, across from banks and actually attached to a library. Homes near the building go for nearly 200K. Seems a pretty nice area if I do say so myself.
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To Eric, I’m sorry that happened to you. I think the exact same way about abortion. It’s horrible, but it’s here and real. My heart hates it, but my mind is pro-choice too.
Kurt, I never said that there were no flaws with my master plan. I’m still ironing out the kinks in my plot to take over the world. You can’t be a good evil overlord if you can’t sterilize everyone!
@ Dhoti – there are several Planned Parenthood locations near where I live, which is an area which is predominantly white and what would be called middle class.
A few other things to remember: Planned Parenthood does a lot more than abortions, and access to affordable birth control and education is harder to come by for women living in poverty, which somewhat explains locating a lot of their branches in poorer neighborhoods.
And also, workers at Planned Parenthood risk their personal safety to help members of our communities.
@SB: To be sure, that’s a rallying cry; but on the other hand, a PP worker’s odds of being assaulted are nearly identical to that of any other American. To classify it as a non-negligible “risk” is an exaggeration.
To my original point — there’s an interview with Justice Ginsburg in the latest (?) NYT Magazine. She’s asked about Roe, and this is part of her response:
“Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don’t want to have too many of. So that Roe was going to be then set up for Medicaid funding for abortion.”
She goes on to say she disagrees with her initial thought, but still — is it just me, or does this read as though she was in favor of state-sponsored eugenics?
@Dhoti: Out of context, it could either read that way or that she was apprehensive that it could occur.
Oops, I forgot to mention that I linked to the article in that post. (The relevant section is split between pages three and four.)
@Dhoti: Ah, thanks. Yes, I think you’re reading it right. And yes, it’s a little creepy.
Silly Froofrou, if you’re trying to be a good evil overlord, doesn’t that mean you’re doing it wrong. Let me know if you need any evil advisors though. Not the “You gave me bad news I kill you” type advisor though. Not much future in that line of work. I prefer to be the “Secretly scheming to take over the overlord’s…I mean scheming to NOT take over the overlord’s position” type of advisor.
This, I think, is a very key question, and one that doesn’t get asked. I think it’s quite clear that a fertilized egg is not a human being, and it’s also quite clear that a 9-month old fetus is a human being. Why is there essentially no effort made to come to a reasonable consensus on the “point in the gestational process” at which we agree to consider the fetus to have the moral standing of a human being? If there is ever to be a resolution to the abortion debate, that certainly has to be a step in the process.
My gut says that if the baby can survive outside the womb with our without assistance, then there is no reason to abort him or her. If the mother doesn’t want the baby, fine, but don’t kill him/her. I’m not knowledgeable enough to suggest that as law, though.
“Why is there essentially no effort made to come to a reasonable consensus on the “point in the gestational process” at which we agree to consider the fetus to have the moral standing of a human being?”
There isn’t? I thought that is basically what all people involved in abortion legislation concern themselves with all the time? It’s, I think, one of the most common questions that appear when I listen to any program about abortion on TV or radio, at least.
It’s just not easy to reach a consensus. Currently it seems impossible.
Well put, but I meant something a bit more subtle. I think there are strong assertions made by people about what point you have something with the moral standing of a human being, but I don’t see any real effort to come to a consensus on that question.
Of course from where I sit, it looks like the entire problem is that the anti-abortion rights people have decided to go with “from conception” (probably largely because of those imaginary “souls” they tend to believe we have), and are unwilling to budge from that position. But I do accept that there are some people taking up a position on the far end of the spectrum, holding that it’s not a human being until birth, a position I find equally ridiculous.
Various middle-ground positions have been taken, including “first heartbeat” (but why?), viability (not a bad position, but in my opinion, that’s quite probably too late), and some having to do with brain activity. Personally I think that if we had a good measure of something like self awareness, that’d be a pretty good line to draw, but that term is pretty vague, and we don’t have anything like a measure for it anyway.
I think that if we are going to resolve the abortion issue as the abortion issue (that is, rather than as an unwanted pregnancy issue), we need to acknowledge that “it’s a human being from conception” is ridiculolus, and that “it’s not a human being until birth” is as ridiculous. Then we can start talking about what it is that makes something into the kind of thing that deserves the moral standing of a human being. We’re also, by the way, going to have to accept that any decent resolution of that question will very likely put several non-human animal species on the “human being” side of the fence. I think that will be extremely difficult for people (those who believe in “souls”, for the most obvious example) to accept, but failing to do so will mean that we’ve abdicated moral responsibility.
Paul, you seem all too eager to fall back to demeaning rhetoric to describe your opponents’ position. After having seen your other comments here, frankly, I expect more from you.
Let me put forth the position another way. Supporters of the right to life generally agree that human life innately deserves protections not necessarily afforded to any other form of life. (To avoid your contempt, note that this doesn’t have to derive from any religious tradition; it’s certainly well-represented in secular humanism as well.)
No, I think the question and issue that you talk about in this post (or rather: that I read it as if you are talking about in this post) was the question I meant, too. I didn’t elaborate much on that, though.
I wonder if there is really any desire to reach a consensus. If you have a strictly moral anti-abortion stance, there is probably nothing ridiculous about “human being from conception”. (And me, I’d set the upper limit on abortions at around the 69th month.)
To me, abortions are neither good nor bad. The thing is that the alternative is terrible, and therefore abortions are needed. I doubt we can reach consensus about that, even without discussing when abortions are allowed, and until there is agreement on the basic question, exactly when the phoetus is regarded as human will not be relevant.
Every ovary I have produced is a potential human. Every sperm is a potential human.
Um, biology fail? It must make it pretty easy to refute those arguments, though.
I believe they mean egg, but we both knew that, Dhot.
I missed that, actually. What I meant was that sperm and eggs are gametes — they only carry half of their parent’s genetic information, and therefore *are not* potential humans.
No, but what they mean is that they have the potential to *become* humans, I think.
Individually, no, they absolutely don’t. Saying “the menstrual cycle kills a human every month” or “jacking off kills millions of humans every time”, which I think is where D’s logic would take her, is incorrect. I think that’s an important distinction here.
True, but with each sperm and egg and each half of those sets of DNA, there does come a potential for a human to form from them. Even if it’s nowhere near likely, they still have some kind of potential. It’s like if you have a great voice, there are people with tons of potential to be good singers, but never will because they don’t want to live that life, or don’t ever really learn how to sing correctly, etc. I think you see what I’m trying to say, right? I *think* that’s what D means by the statement.
I think I do…but here’s the thing: the egg only contains half of the woman’s genome. (Maybe more in cases of retardation, but I think that happens later.) It *never* contains her whole genome — it doesn’t happen for one egg in a thousand, or one in a million — never. And without a full genome, everything else aside, the egg can’t develop into a person. Full stop.
Um, wow. The two of you are having a better discussion of the real issues than I’ve ever seen before on the internet. I am genuinely impressed.
My two cents’ worth: Once you introduce “potential” into the definition, you’ve opened the door to quite a few things. The cells inside my cheeks have the “potential” to become human beings, through cloning. The objection that we don’t know how to clone human beings doesn’t help matters when you’re allowing “potential”: there’s clearly a potential for us to do it someday. If a “potential human being” merits the moral status of a human being, we’re going to have to chance a lot more of our behaviors than just those concerning abortion.
Good point, and I know about it containing only half of the genome, but it just seems to me like they have just as much chance of becoming a baby as the egg that will eventually become one… And if you were to claim that an aborted child had the potential to become a baby, then the woman’s eggs did, too, and nature killed them because the mother didn’t conceive, or wasn’t ready to have sex, so why should a mother who isn’t ready to give birth not be forced to have a child when she has naturally killed potential babies before, unconsciously?
Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted
God gets quite irate.
Paul makes a good point about potential, Tyler, and I think that’s where we’re missing each other. I agree with you that yes, each egg and each sperm could become a baby — but if, and *only* if, they fertilize with a sperm or an egg. That egg and that sperm have no potential in and of themselves, without the presence of the other.
(Here’s where it really ties in — post-conception, but pre-implantation, is it abortion? It’s been fertilized, so it has everything it needs, but fertilized cells often don’t implant naturally, and certainly nobody’s strung up for that.)
Think of it this way (assuming they have this down your way) — killing the Planeteers would just be killing five annoying emo kids, but you’d only be killing Captain Planet once they put their rings together.
Ivan, I was trying really hard to avoid that. Thanks.
But, Dhoti, if you kill one of the planeteers, then Captain Planet won’t ever be able to come back to life. Isn’t that essentially killing him?
And I LOVE the example, btw, especially the “emo kids” bit. Good stuff
I just want to give Dhoti & Tyler props on the probably one of the best and most civil discussions of this topic in the history of mankind. I’m actually very impressed. No sarcasm.
I’m removing the *potential* for Captain Planet to show up. (When he’s not summoned, where is he? Is he alive? Is he dead? Who knows? Ignore for a second that he pops back and forth during the cartoon — isn’t it the same question as “where were you before you were born?”)
While the net result is the same, it’s not exactly the same as blowing his stupid green head off.
Although someone probably should..
Agreed.
Eek! Civility in an internets abortion debate!? *hides and waits for universe to implode*
No kidding, I usually steer waaaaaaay clear of these discussions.
At the very least it’d get rid of that mullet.
BTW, I’m going to be happy about that analogy all day. Beautifully executed.
There is one very important thing that I must interject into this discussion based on something Dhoti said. Captain planet was blue. Thank you that is all.
But his HAIR was green. That’s what Dhoti was talking about when they said “His stupid green head”
I dunno about you, but when I see THAT guy’s head, all I can think is “GREEN F*CKING HAIR?! WTF!”
This may be one of my favorite metaphorical examples EVER, Dhoti. Permission to borrow it if I need it at some point?
You’re right, Kurt; I was remembering him wrong. I thought his skin was a sickly glowing green instead of a sickly glowing blue. I’ll stick with “stupid green head”, though, because I think it sounds better than “stupid blue-green head” and has more connotations than just plain ol’ “stupid blue head”.
Diss, you of all people doesn’t need to ask to borrow.
46 chromosomes.. only humans have 46 chromosomes….sperm has 23 egg 23(not human) you can’t have a human unless it has 46 chromosomes. what is taken out of a woman is not any lump of cells it is a unique set of DNA. DNA is what makes us who we are. “D” i don’t know who you are but the “D” today is not the “D” that was here 10 years ago, because you have encountered things that have changed you along the way. But you were no less “D” then that you are “D” today. You can look back at some stupid mistakes and say that wasnt the “D” I am today but that stupid mistake was on the path of what you are today. Much as that Ball of cells has human DNA when it is born it is the Same DNA, somethings happened along the way, certain hormones added to make facial features but It did not change the fact of the DNA being human DNA
And yet your arguments are not backed up by fact. If you wish to persuade people, at least be truthful.
The vast majority of American counties do not have any abortion clinics – ~85%, last I read. Over 80% of abortions are in the first 9 weeks, and today’s news shows that 1/3 of those are from a pill, not a medical procedure.
As for late-term abortions, google ‘heartbreaking choices’ and read some of the stories there. Then tell those families that they made the wrong choice.
” it is a unique set of DNA”
So which of a pair of identical twins do you believe to be not human? Or is neither of them human?
” you can’t have a human unless it has 46 chromosomes”
So Down’s syndrome kids are just meat, in your book?
Kid, the simple fact is that you’re in WAY over your head. You’re making all these pronouncements about what is and isn’t true, and you simply haven’t thought them through _at all_. Then you’re compounding your lazy error by making false accusations about the motives of people who know better than you about these issues and therefore don’t accept your slogans.
Your best move would be to stop talking, and start listening, in particular to those of us who don’t accept the anti-abortion rights movement’s slogans.
46 chromosomes are unique to humans…. Identical twins dont have identical chromosomes. Within a few cell cycles somatic mutation occur and while they have mostly the same Genes there are differnces.
yeap downs syndrome have 47 chromosomes with an extra on the 21st. which research is trying to find away to fix. But how many people will have an abortion if there is a chance of having a down syndrome baby. by the way down syndrome is caused by an extra copy of HUMAN genetic material.
Don’t call me a kid…son.
“Don’t call me a kid…son.”
I’ll call you whatever I choose to call you, kid, and given your behavior here, you should feel fortunate that I’ve chosen that label.
You’re still failing miserably in your attempt to defend your side of the argument. Again, your failure is clearly a result of the fact that you’re simply not smart enough to think clearly about the issue. Here’s a suggestion: Dhoti seems to be basically anti-abortion rights, and at the same time, he is clearly capable of putting together a well-reasoned argument. If you’re afraid of learning from people who disagree with you, why not look at his arguments and learn from him instead?
I think he gets hung up on that one word… you know the L one… with “earning” at the end.
Ah, but that’s not what you said, kid. You said 46 chromosomes make a human being, not 47.
That’s what I was going to say. Basically he’s saying kids/adults with Down’s Syndrome aren’t human. In my experience, having volunteered for Special Olympics, those unfortunate enough to suffer from Down’s are much better humans than most. They’re amazing people.
A human fetus has no rights until birth, it’s just “a collection of cells”, but it’s morally repugnant to you to eat chicken eggs?
“A human fetus has no rights until birth, it’s just “a collection of cells”, but it’s morally repugnant to you to eat chicken eggs?”
Yes. Would you like to know the one, very good reason why?
A chicken egg is only a collection of cells to me, just like a fetus. The difference is, a woman has the right to decide whether the collection of cells is removed from her or not.
As far as I know, no hen has ever decided it wants me to eat it’s eggs.
*shrugs*
Ok, at least you have a reason. I just wondered.
*smiles*
You may not like me, but off-topic… I like your picture. Is it a petunia?
A moonflower, and thanks! I don’t dislike you, we just disagree about abortion. Oh, and bacon.
“yet abortionist knock her because she doesn’t believe in killing individuals without a voice. ”
Bullshit. That’s obviously a lie, and you’re obviously a liar.
prove me one
A liar is a person who tells lies.
You just told a lie.
Therefore you are a liar.
That was too easy, kid.
what did I lie about
Do you honestly believe that playing dumb is going to score you points?
no show me what I lied about.
He already did. You’re just being childish.
He’s not being childish, he’s being… Senior-ish. He’s worse than a 133 year old Alzheimer’s patient.
No, moron, because she backed abstinence-only sex ed in schools. Worked great for her own spawn didn’t it. Also because she hid her own newest baby from the press until there was gossip that the baby might belong to her eldest daughter… which would have been impossible because her oh so abstinent daughter was pregnant. Because when she didn’t know an answer she relied on a wink and a giggle. Because she flirted with supporters – relying on “feminine wiles” rather than experience. She needs to go away.
F*** the abortion issue – it’s the only card some idiots know how to play, and they play it badly – like you did.
Ugh, you’re not a Trig Troofer, are you?
Why are people so stubbornly clinging to the idea that she backed “abstinence only” when she didn’t? She backed teaching abstinence along side traditional birth control like condoms. That is NOT abstinence ONLY.
Come on Steve. EVERYONE knows they cut off the heads first. *shakes head*
Hate Sara Palin.
Tolerance- It’s Everyone elses responsibility.
That “tolerance” thing bugs me. I mean, lets wave the tolerance banner around when people make fun of individuals who feel they are above scrutiny, but let it drop to the ground when things like homosexuality show up. It’s extremely hypocritical of conservatives and republicans to do that.
It’s disingenuous of you to use “tolerance” when what you mean is “compliance”.
No, “compliance” is when you roll over and let him have his way with you. “Tolerance” is when you agree to let him and his boyfriend live and work in peace.
Apparently, up until the mudslinging involved in the presidential election, Alaskans thought she was a pretty damn good governor. She had extremely high aproval ratings the entire time she had an office, be it governor or whatever else. The trials in the media and the public opinion being what they were, her numbers went down after she hit the national scene and began to be ripped limb from limb by everyone from James Carville to Obama. (I’m not putting actual journalists in that list, but the pundits count). Up until now, according to polling data, she has been pretty good at what she does, and not very many people had complaints. Certainly less than GW’s state had, certainly less than the current Congress has, and certainly less than Nancy “I’m the queen of the world!” Pelosi has.
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I realize that’s a rant, and a defense, but I’ve got my ire up today
You don’t think her being the pit bull for the GOP campaign had anything to do with it? Her coalition with Democrats in her state seemed to take a hit when she essentially called them anti-American, woudn’t you say?
She plays the victim very well, all the while saying that she is not a quitter, she’s a fighter……..but it’s all someone else’s fault.
I could say the same thing about a certain person who always throws up a hand and says “It wasn’t me, it was the other guy’s fault. Dont’ blame me for it”…..but I won’t.
Froo, I thought I told you to stop talking about me on teh interwebs, no?
Oh, please do say it!!
Please do. Doesn’t change that Palin finds new scapegoats for everything; nothing is caused by her own actions.
BTW, how much of the “millions” spent in the ethics complaints was used for the Troopergate investigation that she requested because she didn’t like the investigation that was already going on?
For the love of god stop! It’s idiots like you who keep her in the spotlight with your ridiculous ranting…
“IT’S SO UNFAIR!!! SARAH PALIN IS AN ET WHO BEAMED ME UP AND ANAL PROBED ME ON THE PLANET WASILLA!!!”
Moron.
Show us on the doll where Sarah Palin touched you.
In all fairness froo, having lived in Alaska I’d have to say Alaskans would like anything that distracts them from the fact that they are living in freaking Alaska. Of course, that’s just my opinion. I could be wrong.
I’ve never been, but I’ve heard it’s beautiful….aside from the cold and the bears and all
“The cold” simply doesn’t do justice to the sh*t that happens up there. We could have lived in Hawaii, but noooooooo, Charlie had this lifelong dream of going to Alaska.
Isn’t the suicide rate really high?
Maybe, because of the dark. I know that its high in Oregon/Washington area, because of the rain.
There’s a difference between tolerance and acceptance. You can absolutely hate someone and still tolerate them. Acceptance is the word you’re looking for.
Assuming of course endangered wolves that couldn’t hide from a helicopter don’t count as anybody.
What’s the difference between Sarah Palin’s mouth and her vagina?
only SOME of the things tht come out of her vagina are retarded.
BUH-ZING!
Later, republicanazis!
I don’t think it’s technically a zing if you have to say it yourself.
If you’re referring to her son with down syndrome, you need to stop being a RAGING asshole via internet.
And I’m not a Republican, or a Nazi, but thanks. Because I’m sure if the entire party was like you, I’d be a republican for sure.
Again… Tolerance- It everyone elses responsibility
Wow. I think if hell is real then it will be filled with assholes just like you.
You suck, dude.
C’mon, Eric. WORK for those bashes!
What? It was short, simple, and to the point.
I mean, I could call him an anal douche, but I don’t want to waste good insults.
Or waste a good douche…
Zing fail you twit.. Besides, her handicapped child is probably a hell of lot more intelligent than you.
*bitch slaps NJMCM until he cries*
Horrible people like you go to hell. Now f*ck off and die.
*revokes the f*ck off and die.*
Must remember to not lower myself to their level.
Must remember to be kind though I really want to tear that idiot’s head off.
I’ll do it for you, Captain. Trolls need to F*ck off and DIE!
NJMCM’s post serves as a reminder that there are some people in the world who genuinely deserve to be skullfu(ked by a rabid grizzly bear before being set on fire, extinguished with lemon juice, chained to a boulder and thrown into the Marianas Trench.
Points for trying to remember to be kind, it’s very difficult sometimes!
… Diss, that is the single BEST idea I’ve EVER heard in regards to punishment.
I will second that. That is an awesome punishment.
What is it with the wild Lib bent of the Lols for this site? Is this the outlet for the political rants of the site admins? What a joke.
I love comments that end in “What a joke.”
I don’t know why, it always just seems so… arrogant.
Aaaaanyway….
“Is this the outlet for the political rants of the site admins?”
Well… it is a political humor website… owned by some people… who may share an opinion on politics… so, yeah? I’m sorry, is it political discrimination or something if *their* views come across on *their* site?
I’m not saying that’s the case… just that I fail to see a problem with it if it is. Is there a signed document somewhere where the admins swear to remain impartial? Do they have to wear those judge wigs when moderating stuff? *chuckle*
The major media corporations in America are all politically biased. “Pundit Kitchen: Lol News” is what you’re choosing to get up-in-arms about?
“political humor website”? FAIL (lately, anyway)
If it’s just gonna be angry lib slams against Palin and other Republicans, it shouldn’t be Lol news, it should be Lib Lols or some such thing. Or MSNBC…HA!
It’s not about being liberal. It’s about having common sense – SARAH PALIN IS A MORON.
I’m not sure that being a moron is her core problem. The fact that she campaigned for the vice-presidency on a platform that was centered on the themes “I hate Americans, for the most part” and “I don’t want the vote from anyone who lives in a large city” says to me that she doesn’t really have the loyalty to the nation that I expect from a member of a Presidential administration.
Whaaaaa? When did SHE ever say anything about bitter people “clinging to their guns and religion”?
She never said anything like that, as far as I know. However, the fact is that the comment about bitter people clinging to their guns and to religion was an accurate comment, certainly not deserving of the scorn that the media piled onto it. If we had media that were even remotely liberal here in the U.S., the story would have been very different.
Thanks for reminding us of one of the great illustrations of the deeply conservative nature of the American media.
Ha! That is your opinion and nothing more. In my opinion it showed just how out of touch Obama is with the American people. The liberal media tried to cover it up and made very little of it, like they did with Obama’s relationships with known racists and terrorists. But, they made a huge deal about Palin and anything she may have said, completely unfair.
Um, wow. You’re really out of touch with reality there, kiddo.
Phew.
Nothing more to say? Starting with the insults already? Impressive.
What insults? He just pointed out that you’re out of touch with reality. And of course you are.
Ok, how am I out of touch with reality?
The part where reality and your fingers never meet.
I wasn’t talking to you!! lol.
the media bashed him repeatedly over that. stop living in a fantasy world. palin doesn´t get special treatment just because she is a conservative or a woman. she´s in politics. she has to deal with bashing. that´s life.
No, the MEDIA didn’t. Bloggers did.
Oh. I get it now.
Oh please do tell how “accurate” that comment is, Paul.
We in middle America sure are vitriolic gunslinging bible humpers, to a man.
‘Cuz alienating half of the voting polulace isn’t divisive at all, now is it?
Since he won the election Id say that he alienated less than half. Cause he won by a majority.
Well, winning’s winning, but 52% isn’t a mandate
Still more than half
*hugs froo*
I think we’ll all be winners if I never have to have the mental image of a redneck humping a bible ever again. /nauseated
I have to agree with you. ick.
There’s a guy who lives around the corner (Which in the country translates to about 6 miles away) from my house who I think might actually do that.
Just out of curiosity’s sake, could a presidential election be decided by one vote? Is that possible? (I’m not talking about the Kevin Costner movie that I never saw, I’m being serious here!)
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And it’s still less than GW’s second *hugs Max back*
I dont think it really can… I mean when you break it down to separate districts, maybe one vote could swing a district, which could swing a state, and swing the electoral. But, Im not an electoral college expert.
And thankfully Froo, more than half of us learned from our mistakes, and picked a winner this go ’round
Yeah, well, considering what the rest of us were stuck with, I’d say that you got the best deal
Indeed. But like I said way back, I was for McCain before the election went into Bizarro election mode. The whole thing was a little surreal.. and dude.. Im still looking for my car.
winner? We will see…. But, I have to say I’m not convinced yet.
See the part where he won the election.. and IS president is why he is the winner. You not being convinced of that fact is why we say you’re out of touch reality.
Ever see Firefly? Specifically, Mal’s line: “May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.”
I think that’s what he means here…not ZOMG Diebold conspiracies!!!!!one!
Agreed: I can see that’s what he meant, and I’m right there with him. I’m not yet convinced BO is a winning strategy.
Point being that Palin is playing to one audience, Obama another.
Obama’s just happened to be bigger.
Well then, if even a slight majority is all you need to define reality, then let’s ignore the views and needs of minorities or marginalized groups. Sounds good to me.
“Common Sense is neither common nor sensical.”
-One of my college psychology professors
Seriously, there’s nothing “common sense” about how our government is run to begin with, so saying that a particular candidate or position holder doesn’t have common sense is idiotic on its own.
For what goes as “common sense” to quite a few people, I’d say it’s a positive if a person lacks that particular flavour of it. That goes for anything, government or not.
That was a screwy sentence. I am trying to say “Yeah”.
What about the kind that says things like “If you stick your penis in a toaster, it will be burnt.”
Because I’m pretty sure I don’t have any of THAT kind.
I’d call that självbevarelsedrift. So… “The instinct to self preservation” or something like that.
Toast your dick often then?
Not telling.
PUNDITKITCHEN FAIL
This isn’t funny, first of all, and didn’t she say she was leaving because of her family? At least in part. I mean think about it. Anything she does, any time her picture shows up ANYWHERE, people say really horrible inhuman things (most of this I’m basing on what I see on Perez Hilton’s site- talking about her getting raped by moose, talking about beating her and her daughters, etc.) I’m sure her kids hear things at school, too. For whatever reason, nearly everything she does is met with malicious comments and hateful attitudes by the national press and by the everyman on the internet. Maybe she’s tired of it. Maybe her kids asked her to do it. Resigning for the sake of your family does NOT set women back fifty years. What sets women back are the neanderthals who said that she should stay at home with her babies instead of pursuing a career- she does have a husband, you know.
If that’s true, and she’s tired of it, why does she continue in the public eye? Why did she call the national media to tell us that the national media is unfair to her? If she truly resigned for her family, we will hear nothing of her and she will seek a private life.
I doubt that will happen.
Hey me…. Think about that one again. Would it be unfair to expect the national media, or people in general, to have a little class?
Class about what, in particular?
Palin claims that the national media is unfair to her, so she invites the national media to her announcement and makes a rambling, unclear pronouncement. When the national media that she invited made comments on it, she lashed out at them…….then invited the national media to the family fishing grounds to further explain.
If she truly wants to protect her family from the national media, perhaps she ought to quit calling them to visit her.
All of that is true, but it’s certainly not unfair to Palin that she has to bear those insults. Any time President Clinton’s picture shows up people say inhuman things about him. Same with Al Gore, Hillary Clinton, George W. Bush, Dick Chaney, Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry, a string of several Republican Senators and Governors, and quite a few other politicians.
It’s understandable that Palin would choose to retire from politics to avoid that treatment, but if she wants to complain that she’s being treated unfairly, she is out of line. She is being treated completely fairly. What would be unfair would be if she were somehow immune from that treatment.
“What would be unfair would be if she were somehow immune from that treatment.” – like Obama is?
Oh, no-one EVER says anything bad about Obama. Right.
There’s that “out of touch with reality” problem of yours, getting you in trouble again.
-Giggles at reality and continues riding golden dragon-
-Pulls up next to Tyler on my flying unicorn-
Wanna race?
When does anyone in the media ever say anything bad about Obama, without any kind of spin, besides right wing talk show hosts (if you could call that media)?
all the freaking time. calling him socialist even.
I thought socialism wasn’t a bad thing. Make up your mind.
Oh, all the time… calling him a “socialist”!? The government media complex adores socialism! Doh!
No no no no no. She was treated EXTREMELY unfairly. Remember that comment Letterman made about her daughter getting knocked up at that baseball game? If he had made a similar comment about Chelsea Clinton, he would have been off the air. But he can make a comment like that about Sarah Palin’s daughters, make an insincere apology, and go merrily on his way.
I know that Democrats are still bitter about the Republican treatment of the Monica Lewinsky scandal, but come ON. The sheer volume of coverage Bristol Palin’s out-of-wedlock pregnancy got was INSANE. And not just insane as in “that’s a lot of coverage,” but insane as in “HOLY CRAP PEOPLE GET A LIFE THERE ARE MORE IMPORTANT THINGS TO TALK ABOUT!”
Sarah Palin was treated VERY unfairly by both the media and by Democratic politicians. You know why? Because she’s a threat. Admit it: You’re scared of her, so you’re treating her like crap and then saying “Well, she deserved it.” Trust me, if Hillary Clinton was given half the crap Sarah Palin had tossed her way, there probably wouldn’t even BE a Republican party anymore.
But of course, Democrats get a pass because they’re Democrats.
The internet rumors and blogs were insane. But they are always out of control.
You mean four insincere apologies, and have people *trying* to throw him off the air? Yeah, okay. Completely different.
And no, I don’t really consider her a threat. No one needs to admit anything you don’t have any direct proof of. Oh, and by the way, how would Hillary/Bill DESTROY the republican party? That doesn’t even make sense. The Republican party would not end if Hillary was insulted. But of course, you get a pass from any real insults on my behalf because you’re a Twilight fan, and you can’t help yourself.
” Remember that comment Letterman made about her daughter getting knocked up at that baseball game? If he had made a similar comment about Chelsea Clinton, he would have been off the air. But he can make a comment like that about Sarah Palin’s daughters, make an insincere apology, and go merrily on his way.”
Chelsea Clinton didn’t get knocked up. Sarah Palin’s daughter did.
You omitted the obvious important fact in a vain attempt to make your argument look sound. Sorry that it didn’t work. I suggest that next time you try to defend an argument that has merit instead of this “the media are unfair to conservatives” drivel.
Not her 14 year old daughter, which was the daughter that was with her in New York and the one the joke was aimed at.
We’ve already had this discussion. Go back to the POUTING thread and rethink that statement.
She paraded her family in the media and spouted small town family values. What did she expect from the media, pundits, and comedians? It was not well thought out on her or McCain’s part and you could hear the backfire from her house.
Now she resigns because of meanies. Putin or Akmadinijhad (sp) would have eaten her alive. She was so far out of her league it was comical, and that is why everyone went nuts. It is more on her than the meanies.
She didn’t “parade” them any more than any other politician, or any more than Obama “paraded” his two daughters around. I don’t hear incest jokes being made about them…
There’s nothing funny there, so no jokes. Unwed pregnancy in a family spouting family values is hilarious. Don’t you get that?
She is a twit and a tool, or a twool as Baba Wawa would say.
You must be as well to defend such a joke of a person…thought she could be the Prez of this great country??? Haha ha ha. See what I mean?
There was nothing funny in the incest skits on SNL, either, but they were still done. Obama himself said to leave the kids and families out of it, yet Palin’s family is constantly being lampooned and dragged through the mud.
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And unwed pregnancy isn’t something to laugh at, which speaks to your level of discourse.
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Out of curiosity, where did you see me defend anyone, or otherwise do anything but point out that both sides parade the families around like show ponies when it’s convenient?
GMC will be unable to respond, as it just filed Chapter 13.
You missed my first statement. THEY are the joke, therefore they get lampooned. Geez you are dense. Her daughter and all her family’s Jerry Springer antics are funny. If Obama acted like Sanford and Son, they would get it too. Please relax your sphincter.
Level of discourse? Do you know where you are on the internet? Maybe you could ask Dick Sniffer ^.
If the incest skit on SNL was so offensive to her, why did she appear on the show a few weeks later?
And yet, despite the incest jokes on SNL, Sarah Palin thought it appropriate to appear and participate on that show. She never commented when Leno made a joke that inferred that Bristol Palin had been “knocked up” by John Edwards. She only gets her outrage on when it suits her purpose, and that’s manipulation. I think Dave Letterman should never have had to apologize for his joke. I was not aware until the Palins made such a big deal of identifying the daughter at the game that Willow accompanied them, because really who cares? I heard she was at the game with Rudy G. Period. Everyone knows the joke was about the daughter who actually got herself “knocked up” because her education regarding sex was woefully incomplete.
I think the point in the campaign vs. not in a campaign is what makes the difference in responses. At this point, she’s not running for anything, and can therefore take issue with her family being slung through the mud, since they are not being trotted out for anything. Bringing the kids into it at this point is far too late, and uncalled for. So I think she’s completely justified (as would be Obama) to be pissed that her family is still getting the shaft as far as the lampooning goes. She’s out there, she’s an adult, lampoon her. Do as Obama has asked and keep the kids (who aren’t a part of a campaign anymore) out of it.
So, it was OK with her for her kids to be the butt of incest jokes during a campaign? That doesn’t make it much better.
I never said it was ok. I said the response makes sense. During a campaign you have to go places you don’t want to go and talk to people you may not want to talk to in order to get your name out. Palin compromised a lot of her core beliefs just to run with McCain, so appearing on a show after it had run her kids through a shredder isn’t any different than Bill Clinton doing the same on late night TV. Or Al Gore. Or any other politician who is running or is in office. She may have had teh motivation to appear in order to take the heat off her kids, she may have wanted to change the direction of the slurs, we don’t know. The fact is, the situation has changed and her kids aren’t a part of the limelight anymore, and should not be dragged back into it as a source of amusement for people who should know better.
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Now the Top Ten List that Letterman had the other night of Top Ten answering machine messages on Sarah Palin’s answering machine was hilarious! It was in good taste, and had to do with HER, not her kids.
I didn’t say that you said it, I said that, according to her, it was OK for SNL to make such jokes because she was running for an office. If she was so offended by the SNL reference to incest, why did she appear on the show? You say she compromised her core beliefs, but to sacrifice her kids just for a few votes? If she truly was upset about that skit, she would have refused to appear, no matter what Hillary or anyone else did.
As for running for office, this is all one big campaign, and anyone who doesn’t recognize that isn’t really paying attention.
There is a better than good chance that she was instructed by the McCain campaign to appear, “for her own good”. There is plenty of evidence that she was held back a lot and forced to conform to ideals that weren’t necessarily close to her own, simply to be a part of the campaign. At the time, I’d say it was too late for her to drop out, and it wasn’t a matter of sacrificing her kids just to get a vote.
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Chelsea was trotted out like a show pony when it was politically feasable, and she wasn’t accused of sleeping with Bill. Ever. The same goes for Sasha and Malia. For some reason the Palin kids don’t get the same respect.
So, then what you’re saying is that she can overlook what offends her and assaults her children when she is hoping to win an office? So, her values are flexible? I always thought so.
That’s not what I said at all.
My *value* is flexible.
-Winks at nunya-
You said the response was different because she was running for office. If she’s such a big momma bear and you cannot say these things about her children, that would include under any circumstance.
I’m saying we don’t know the deeper motivations for her appearing on SNL after the skit. She may have wanted to set the record straight, confront the makers of the skit head on, or just let everyone know that she’s not scared of these people. After the campaign is over and she’s out on her own, she has more freedom to be the “momma bear” and take matters into her own hands, instead of having to defer to John McCain’s campaign people, who were constantly telling her to shut up and toe the party line when it came to being outspoken about much.
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Like I said before, Obama has made it very clear that he doesn’t think families are fair game for lampooning. Apparently that doesn’t apply when you’re Sarah Palin.
I disagree. She has a degree in journalism. She should have been able to handle anything the media threw her way. I wouldn’t expect her to be able to handle much more than that, though. Instead of handling herself like a pro, she cried victim.
She wasn’t cut out for the job and she’s not right for the office of president of the USA. For a person who pretends to be of a high moral character, the way she fed into the fears of the followers during her campaign was absolutely sickening. She’s an opportunist and a puppet of the religious right.
BTW, the joke was intended to be about A-Rod, not about Palin’s older daughter. The joke was not intended to be a slight on her. He did apologize, and Palin milked it for everything she could. Typical. Crying victim again.
Did I mention she was wrong for the office of president of the USA?
Admit it. You just wanna see BO on TV every night so you can masturbate without paying for porn.
Dillhole.
I’m going to have to disagree with you. As a student of both political science and journalism, I’ve seen an alarming trend of Palin being treated much, much worse than her fellow politicans- and it wasn’t always warranted (please be aware that I did not vote for this woman, nor did I vote for Obama). I’m unable to list all of the instances here, but this article sums things up quite nicely, from major media figures deciding even BEFORE the embarrassing interviews that Palin was unworthy of respect, to the odd obsession with her family (before they were “paraded” out on stage), and numerous other things. And this article was written by a journalist who is neither Republican nor conservative:
http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/07/08/sarah-barracuda-palin-and-the-piranhas-of-the-press/?icid=main|aim|dl1|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.politicsdaily.com%2F2009%2F07%2F08%2Fsarah-barracuda-palin-and-the-piranhas-of-the-press%2F
Immune to bad press in the national media, you mean like Obama.
Palin IS treated vastly differently in the media, and by the masses, mostly because she is a woman. Liberals harbor a gut-wrenching hatred of her, to the point of threatening to rape and murder her and her family, which they have done so in effigy countless times. Nothing she has ever said or done warrants that kind of hatred. She receives such treatment because she was a serious threat to Obama in 2008, and will be so again in 2012.
As for not calling the mainstream media with her announcement…who else is she supposed to call with that important news? Ghostbusters? She is a public figure whom the media will never leave alone anyway in or modern paparazzi society…so ya, the MSM would be the ones to call.
Bullwinkle, you bastard! What have you done now?
and her idiot worshippers continue to wet themselves at the mere mention of her shortcomings.
i agree. what a horrible representation of a woman in power. why can´t we try to elect a smart woman?
Well, the Dems tried with Hillary but ended up with Obama. Although, it could be worse. It could have been Pelosi running..
Hillary? A hahahahahaha! Take a look at her miserable failure under her husband trying to do her original attempt at national healthcare.
Wait.. Kelly asked for an intelligent woman. I may not like Hillary, but I wouldn’t call her stupid.
yeah, as big of an oddball as hillary is, she is most definitely not stupid.
I’d much rather have someone less focused on smooth and lofty rhetoric whose heart is in the right place…as opposed to the “Wizards of Smart” that fill Washington. There are a lot of intelligent politicians that shouldn’t be in office…
Unfortunately Palin is both an idiot and has her heart in the wrong place. Luckily the former cancels out the latter in terms of actually getting any of her proposals off the ground.
My gosh, who in the heck chooses these things? Not like they’re raving liberal loonies or anything, with the amount of republican bashing and hating that goes on…..
I’m just tired of it. Can we please have something FUNNY?
Ya im a pretty liberal guy and often vote democrate. I feel i have to point out this site very often bash’s the left and only pokes fun at the right on page LOL’s. i dont like it either. less bashing and more fun pokeing. if it was a light hearted thing that made fun of her and not some mean stab i would not have a problem. no one in either party walks on water, both parties have had good ideas and bad ideas, as well as good members and scum bags. less hate and more LOL please.
and i would totally nail her daughter. bend that girl in ways she was not ment to..and she would love it
lemme correct myself, they bash the right and only poke fun at the left. sorry its been a long day at work and im on some pain meds for my back. forgive my mistake in the post above with parties mixed up.
I think that’s a very astute observation, grimmie. I agree.
I don’t really have much of an opinion on the rest of the post, but I agree about the daughter.
How’s the new name suit me, Anniee?
It reminds me a little of Ivan the extremely annoying so it threw me off until I saw the avatar.
Don’t think Ivan, think EEEEEGOR the VEEEEGORous.
Why drag ME into this? I’m just MILDLY annoying, whereas Anniee takes it to a whole new level…
Jesus Christ! I literally just said that last night! Spooky, I must have picked up on someone else’s brainwaves.
You probably need some…
you don´t require any to see the obvious.
Which reminds me of a joke (apologies to all the blondes out there..)
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What do you call a blonde standing between two brunettes?
A mental block
lol! Good one. (and I’m a blonde)
Yep, the left couldn’t just let her be defeated in the election, they have had to try to destroy her, not just politically but also personally. Come on! 16 frivolous ethics complaints this year alone? The right needs to do the same thing, only we have facts instead of fiction: Barney Frank — if he had an (R) by his name, he’d have been gone after the boy prostitute in his apartment was caught using it as a brothel, Obama? Tony Rezko, Bill Ayers, etc. Chris Dodd? CountryWide and special loan considerations Nancy [I demand a 747] Pelosi, Jack Murtha: Another one who, if he had an (R) by his name would have been gone years ago.
Double standard and dangerous
you act as if palin is the first person being bashed by the media. the treatment of her is no different than that of any celebrity.
Actually, my job involves comparing various modern media sources for bias and let me tell you…there was a VAST difference between the way Palin was treated vs. Obama. Palin has been treated worse by the media that Lindsay Lohan, Britney Spears, and Paris Hilton all together.
Its not that she is the first person to be bashed by the media, its that she is the first female political figure to be freely threatened with rape and murder by the mass media, and to have jokes about the sexual activity of herself and her underage children flaunted on the MSM stage.
Hmmm. Were you not aware that the majority of the ethics complaints were brought by republican Alaskans?
This LOL contains no lol
Yup, not funny at all. It’s not even true.
Regardless of how you felt about Palin during the election, I find one thing quite interesting: If she is such an ignoramus who wouldn’t have a chance at winning an election, why are her opponents so quick to bash her? If she was just some bimbo from Alaska, why not just ignore her? Or better yet, why not encourage her to run for office to help boost their chances of winning?
Hmm?
Obviously because she was a serious threat to Obama in 2008, and will be so again in 2012. It’s not enough to make fun of her and have her lose…she must be destroyed on all levels forever. No limits.
FINISH HER!!!!!
*rips out spine and shoves it up anus*
Playing Mortal Kombat 12: Politics again, DT?
God forbid a politician decides to do the right thing and not spend tax payer money on campaigning.
Don’t make any sudden movements and keep your hands away from the mouth.
“Nineteen-year-old Levi Johnston, whose wedding to Bristol Palin was called off earlier this year, says he thinks the governor is resigning over personal finances.
Johnston says he lived with the Palin family from early December to the second week in January. He claims he heard the governor several times say how nice it would be to take advantage of the lucrative deals that were being offered, deals that included a reality show and a book.”
Why couldn’t she just say that? Would her supporters have thought less of her? Was it necessary to blame someone else for her actions?
Did Sarah Palin take away your birthday or something?
One track mind. You has it.
why yes , matter of fact she did take away my birthday. i lost my cake , ice cream, and the creepy creepy clown.
There’s a few clowns around here you could probably hire.. but I don’t think you can get away from the creepy.
Eddie, he can just hire me if he wants the creepy and the clowniness.
Ok, you be the clown, I’ll get the cake.. any idea where to start looking for the birthday at?
I dunno, I’ll just drive around in my tiny, tiny car until I see it.
And god knows I’ve got enough cream for all of us..
see if you can find one of them whatchamacallums..the mexican cardboard things filled with candy. shaped like batman. cause batman rules
Pinata? (Pin-yah-tah)
Why would you beat batman until he breaks in half, then?
why?
WHY??????
CANDY YOU FOOL CANDY CANDY CANDY CANDY BATCANDY!
guano?
Yes, disgruntled and publicly humiliated ex-boyfriends who need money from the media to bash the MSMs favorite pinata are totally reliable sources of info.
I don’t think there is anything wrong with leaving a political position in order to better support your family. She would get a lucrative deal in radio or tv, or elsewhere in the political arena.
Still doesn’t mean that a big part of the reason for this move isn’t based on her media treatment.
I now have my own personal citeria on voting. Whenever I see a picture of Palin pop up, it’s an automatic fail. Epecially after the number of these that have popped up lately..
You said palin and popped up…
I ૌ Fridays even more now!!!
Wrong unicode number. Dammit all. ❣
Good. I was racking my brain on what the hell that meant.
Click my name for a relevant article.
Great article, excerpt:
‘Contrary to most reports, her decision had been in the works for months, accelerating recently as it became clear that controversies and endless ethics investigations were threatening to overshadow her legislative agenda. “Attacks inside Alaska and largely invisible to the national media had paralyzed her administration,” someone close to the governor told me. “She was fully aware she would be branded a ‘quitter.’ She did not want to disappoint her constituents, but she was no longer able to do the job she had been elected to do. Essentially, the taxpayers were paying for Sarah to go to work every day and defend herself.”‘
Palin go home
If women were never ahead how can they be set back?
Since you idiots think men really do that great a job,then why the hell is America in an economical crisis right now?You can’t blame women for this rut we’re in.Grow up.
You need to learn to read. This LOL is saying Sarah Palin sets women’s rights back, either by representing them as idiots, or being against abortion, I don’t know since I’m not the creator.
They are not blaming women in any way/shape/form.
If your intellect is that weak, nor can you hit the space button after a sentence, then you’re quite evidently the one who needs to grow up.
I was angered and embarrassed — as a woman –by Palin’s behavior and image. Her political views are not relevant to it at all. Winking and giggling her way through a national campaign in a tight skirt is not the way to be taken seriously in any decade…
if bitter troll had sex organs, bitter troll would totally hit that