Oh, and if you’re 11, you didn’t ‘grow up’ in a trailer park. You spent some of your life there, is all, and then your parents made more money or whatever. You’re still growing up, and it looks like you have quite a long way to go.

you god guy very mean in most of it, murdering babies and causing plagues

what make you hoomans thinks he wants to even save 10% of you%

Modern interpretation of Hell is far and away more than just a lake of fire, and so that is why I cited Dante.

Actually, quite a lot of people wrote about him objectively. Even then, though, that’s like saying “of all the people in the world play music, why did only Beethoven write ‘Ode to Joy’? The notes were all there, they just needed someone to organize them.” The creative spirit does not reside in everyone, and in those it does, they do not all make the same things. It makes sense that in a time when few were literate and fewer still could write allegorically that only a few of those few would write the Bible.

As for the Hell described in the Bible, it’s described as a lake of fire because there was an actual “lake of fire” in ancient Israel. People write of what they know – an ancient Israelite would no doubt use such a place as a comparison to punishment, especially when it is already commonly invoked in oral curses.

Right off the bat, you have the three Abrahamic religions – Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. All three worship the same root God, but all three have differing ideas about what He stands for. Beyond that there are the hundreds of different sects of all the religions, saying some of those things are right, but some are different.

Religions are judged by the words and actions of their followers. When nobody can make up their mind about what God is really saying and there are three holy books that contradict each other. Which group is promoting the “right” message, and who are you to say so?

A-theists- do not worship humans as gods. They recognize humans as human. My own personal view as an agnostic is that humans are not “evil” until something makes them that way (nurture, not nature), and in most cases this is reversible with the right treatment or rehabilitation (i.e., not just throwing people into prisons, but actually teaching them to be productive members of society; see Japan’s rehabilitation system). Many would agree with me, I’m sure. Humans can be incredibly evil AND incredibly good, and I think the charity performed by religious groups is a perfect example of that. It’s humans being human.

She is debating in children’s religious terms – absolute, because that’s the only capacity children can understand religion in.

I’m not using it as a slight against her; I’m saying that she’s just not at the point where she can really recognize what she’s saying and think on her own instead of parroting what she’s learned. It’s the same case as a child coming into school and saying “my daddy said the sky is blue because God painted it!” and a teacher trying to correct them… they’re not going to get very far, right?

Even if you’re a Christian like this person claims to be, you’re going to argue, because, like the caption somewhat truly says, our interpretation of what God wants us to do is getting too entangled with what the majority says is “okay”.
My new favorite quote to describe our predicament is, “In the beginning, God made man in his image, and ever since, we have been trying to return the favor”.

not even going to disclose my own age here, ;p

Well so is your god. You’re Athiest and “there is no god”? Human nature is an incredibly evil being.

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…”

Thus, the First Amendment has no bearing on what individuals, cities, states, and organizations do. The 500-and-change legislators on the Hill cannot legally make you join or leave any faith.

And if you paid attention to sites like Rapture Ready, you’d see where the real fundie quotes come from.
FSTDT members, for the most part, actually like normal Christians and people of other faiths. We even have calm, rational debates and discussions with them on the forums. We’re even friendly to them, as long as the sentiment is returned.

For the record, though, I don’t normally belittle people there. I read the quotes and post rational, researched retorts using logic and fact-checking. It’s an exercise in debate for me.

*The Flying Spaghetti Monster was created to show the flaws in teaching Creationism in science class. For what it’s worth, the people who first used it were right about that much.

*You can’t be a minority if you’re the majority.

*Most people ARE capable of telling the difference between fundie-types and normal Christians. For one thing, the non-fundies don’t constantly insult people and threaten them with eternal torture. Fundies do… often while smiling at the idea of someone else suffering forever.

You can’t preach love & peace while practicing hate & anger. It makes you a hypocrite.

Also, you never responded to my point about the validity of other religions.

And I thought heaven WAS the reward? If all Christians go to heaven no matter what, that means Hitler and everyone who has ever murdered in the name of God gets in, but Ghandi doesn’t. I’m sorry, but that’s not exactly justice.

Im not saying the Bible is necessarily correct, however, the beliefs expressed here are Biblical in origin, not just a commonly held misconception, as many aspects of Christianity are.

No legitimate scientist will tell you anything is true, only that it is probable. To hold scientific findings (and science in general) as absolute truth is a fallacy; the nature of science is that if findings turn out to be incorrect, they can be corrected (as opposed to many religions, where things are considered absolute).

Both sides require an amount of faith to believe in. The difference, though, is that where religion offers truths based without evidence aside from “what they say/wrote”, science strives to find evidence for what it claims is real, and is probable. It starts with a theory, and instead of instantly claiming it to be the answer (“God did it”), methodically tests it to see if it’s correct. The former side is, by nature, one that refuses to be contradicted because then it loses its basis, where the latter welcomes it.

As for things untestable by scientific method, well, that’s what science is striving towards: being able to explain the nature of the universe, or at least planet earth, through scientific method. It’s gradual, and it takes a long time, and scientists know that. But that is why I have faith in science. Nobody claims to have all the answers, but only that they are seeking them, and that is something I can get behind.

I am glad to hear that you question what you accept as truth (and very glad that you brought up the nature of the unperceived ), because it is open-minded people like you that aid science in finding answers and open the minds of others to what is possible, even if the end really does turn out to be “God did it”.

Aye, an unfortunate fact that many Christians are unaware of… Fire and Brimstone, Lake of Fire hell comes from two sources: a book written by a man named Dante Alighieri, and the curse “I hope you burn in hell”; this comes from an ancient Jewish curse invoking the fires of Gehenna (the Valley of Hinnom), a garbage dump in ancient Israel that was said to burn so brightly it turned the skies red at night. One of the most important aspects of death to an ancient Israelite was a proper burial. To be burned with the garbage was an unbelievable nightmare, and so its imagery was used often to scare people into good behavior.

Is the CS Lewis interpretation you speak of the one where you live in London, and everyday is rainy? And everyday, a plane leaves for heaven, but you never go…

How do you know that science is true?
Is it because that’s what your teachers have taught you?
Have you ever thought that maybe there are things that we can’t perceive? After all theoretical physics points to things that are untestable all the time.

Now if there are things that cannot be perceived how would one test them with the scientific method?

What I’m saying here is that maybe you should question what you so firmly accept as truth. I do. If I did not question my faith I would not really be a believer. I would be a mindless tool for whoever wished to guide me. Be it right wing politicians or corrupt and hateful false preachers.

You may feel that you know him personally, so in that sense I can see you being offended… but really, compare that to if I were criticizing a family member or a friend. How well do you really know Jesus? You know what you read in a book that has been translated and interpreted over thousands of years, and what men at podiums tell you. But do you know Him? Were you there when he was alive to get to know him inside and out, his flaws and his strengths?

This is in a sincere spirit, I really would like to know what your thoughts are. I would at least like to see why what I say is so offensive, so I can consider it and maybe avoid it in the future if I in turn understand it to be unreasonable.

If you want a reason for my cynicism, all you have to do is take a good, hard look at the world around you. Maybe in a few years I’ll lighten up, but as it is, I’m (mostly) happy with a life that I understand to be here and now. I do not like to play it safe, and that is what I see as the main principle of Christianity.

BTW, if anyone who has read this thread has not seen Dogma, rent it now. It’s both a hilarious send up of the church along with some extremely relevant commentary on the current state of the religion. It isn’t outright crapping on Christianity, just pointing out areas for improvement. And it’s got Jay & Silent Bob in it.

The *self-made* man is the one that succeeds. I would even say I may be more of a patriot than many, because I truly believe in the “American Dream”. The self-made man, who rises from nothing to have the life he dreamed of… without God’s help. You can’t say that it’s our fault when bad things happen but God’s when good ones do. The reason my family isn’t in bankruptcy right now is because my father is pulling 80-hour weeks at two shitty jobs. This is a guy with a degree in finance that used to be the president of two different credit unions, before greedy assholes screwed him out of the jobs. So now to keep us out of severe debt and keep me in school, he busts his ass. Is it divine providence that’s keeping me there? No, it’s my father working his damned hardest. HE may believe in God, and that belief may or may not keep him going, but that’s not God helping, that’s his belief. No, I refuse to discredit my father and disrespect him by saying that God had anything to do with this. Many families aren’t even lucky enough to be out of bankruptcy, but still, they believe that Jesus will lead them out of it to the holy land of having a house that won’t be foreclosed upon.

When I call Jesus a politician, it’s because I firmly believe that he was nothing but a master manipulator, who convinced a bunch of ancient idiots that he was magical. Was he intelligent? Yes. Was he charismatic? Sure. Was he a god? I highly doubt it. I don’t pretend to know the guy, unlike many Christians. I just call it like I see it, which is to say that I think you’ve all been duped into believing an ancient text is relevant in the modern age as anything beyond a recreational read. To say that you all think one man will lead you to happiness, when all you’re doing is filling a hole that wouldn’t be there with serious self-searching.

I’m guessing you got the reference?

@Tyler

The vikings were even pretty progressive, what with the men leading during war and women leading in peacetime.

“They didn’t need to live their lives according to outdated things.” Exactly right; they lived for the moment, whether that be huddled around a fire to survive the winter and telling wild stories, out fishing and hunting, or on the battlefield.