And who better
And who better to moderate the VP debate?
(Drew Carey)
Did you watch the Vice Presidential debate? Tell us what you think about it in the Comments
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I’ll paste what I said in the other thread.
As a left-leaning independent, tonights debate was underwhelming for me. I didn’t feel persuaded either way. Both of them tried to misrepresent the other candidates record knowing that most Americans wouldn’t be able to spot it. Just like the previous debate its going to be the Obama/Biden guys going WE WON!!! YAY!!! and the McCain/Palin guys doing the same. Both of them got way off-question too often for me.
I was impressed with both overall performances in the respect that Biden didn’t say anything loudmouthed or blunt to scare voters, and Palin didn’t Couric anything that I could spot. Overall though it just reinforced my belief that there isn’t a good pick this year. Neither candidate seems to really want “change” in most areas, and in the areas they do want change, they seem to agree. So do we even really have a choice?
In the end its going to be “rah rah” cheerleading, with both sides claiming victory.
I would have to say that Palin did well, despite doubling back on certain things. Such as calling withdrawal from Iraq “Waving a white flag of surrender” after stating numerous times that we’ve “Won”.
And Biden could have stepped away from “McCain is more of the same Bush Policies” Thats a moot point, and I do commend Palin for calling him out on it. BUT, he did have a point that no one will state how McCain is different.
So…. eh, I still dont know. Im just surprised nothing could be insinuated at sexist or what have you. It looked to me like a nice, clean debate; which, to be honest, I didnt expect to see.
I guess in summation, can I say its a double win? Since they both came out on top?
I think they both did well, but they both definitely fell back on the same tired stuff pretty often. Biden played the “It’s just more Bush” card too often. That’s fine if he wants to give a verbal handjob to existing supporters, but it doesn’t win the independents. Palin harped on “maverick” too much. That also doesn’t impress us independents because, in reality, the difference between a maverick and someone who isnt a maverick is whether they vote along party lines 90% of the time or 95% of the time.
Neither screwed up, but at the same time all they really did was tell their own supporters what they wanted to hear.
I didn’t see a resounding victory, but my overall impression was that Palin was more likable and regular than Biden. A lot of his answers came in “government” double-talk, and just seemed kind of rehearsed and pro-forma. As well, he ably repeated the same talking points that we’ve heard numerous times from anyone associated with the the Obama campaign. I felt that the moderator tended to cut off and move on when Biden made a clear point, not giving Palin a chance to respond. It’s not obvious, but given her known bias it was noticable. The debate wasn’t a KO for Palin, but my feeling is that she proved more than Biden did. It will be interesting to see how evenly the MSM will call out the factual inaccuracies in their statements, which Biden seemed to have a lot more of.
C
Strangely enough, multiple mainstream polls show people found Biden to be more of a politician, but also more in touch with their problems. The polls are also showing a clear victory for Biden, especially among independents.
I thought Biden came across as fearless and forthright. He didn’t waffle one bit on the gay marriage issue, and near the end he utterly destroyed the whole “maverick” image. I didn’t know a whole lot about Biden, but after last night I feel very comfortable having him on the ticket with Obama.
I find the whole “maverick” thing to be funny.
Have you noticed the dividing line between McCain’s “maverick” and Obama/Bidens “voting along party lines”? Yeah, McCain is a maverick because he votes along party lines 90% of the time instead of 95% like Obama and Biden. That’s just stupid. Though I can understand it, our political system does not allow mavericks. To stay in your position you have to make too many compromises.
I was kind of disappointed about Biden’s troop funding goof. When Palin said that Obama voted against it, Biden said McCain voted the exact same way. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt that he just got two bills mixed up or something, but McCain and Obama were on opposite sides on that bill.
Both sides brazenly misrepresented the other sides tax voting history too.
Yea, I’m hoping to never hear the word “maverick” ever again after this election. Ugh!
Only if we can give up the whole “More of the same” bit.
Both are getting quite annoying.
there were 2 bills I thought. The one McCain voted against had a timeline the one Obama voted against did not. They both wanted to fund the troops but disagreed on timeline
That was my understanding as well.
Exactly so, there were two bills, one with a time line, and one without. They each voted for one, and against the other.
Palin didn’t fail as badly as she did with Couric, but it was extremely obvious that she was directing the discussion back to the tracks she had been briefed to take. Her entire strategy was “Joe, you’re dead wrong on that, but rather than back that assertion up, let’s talk (for the seventh time) about energy.”
She got flustered a few times, but she seemed to keep it under control. There were a lot of times where I couldn’t help but laugh uproariously at her foolishness… usually this was preceded by a loud “what?!?”. I had to wince at her “shout out”, and I couldn’t believe her gall in bringing up Biden’s dead wife and sons. There are lines that ought not to be crossed.
All in all, the debate went about as I expected. As the talking heads are saying, there was no game-changer here. McCain’s still toast, click my name for the latest electoral vote estimate.
This is the impression I came away with, too. She knew the stuff in front of her cold. Unfortunately, she had not internalized any of it. I didn’t believe her. I have a lot of public speaking experience and whenever I am unsure of my point or have not taken the time to “KNOW” the material, I’ve stuck very very very close to the script, much like Palin did. She didn’t stray far from the range with her points which, incidentally, is the exact opposite definition of a maverick.
It’s sort of like a jazz musician. Someone who is competent will riff but stick real close to the root chord, not stray far from it so as not to totally screw up the session. On the other hand, someone who is an artist, a confident musician, will know where the root chord is and have the ability to fly off into the stratosphere with an improvisation and make it back to the root in time for everyone else to get back in for the chorus.
Palin was competent. Biden was confident. I think that makes all the difference.
Number of debate questions answered:
Biden: 16/18
Palin: 2/18
Energy! Energy! Energy! … ummm … energy?
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“Let’s talk without nuance” … “so we are agreed that you support civil rights for gay couples?” … “um, I agree that I don’t support gay marriage”
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I think she completely avoided answering quite a few questions.
You forgot, “I may not answer that question the way the moderater or you want” meaning, “I don’t know the answer because I didn’t memorize it and so now I’m going to talk about something I did memorize for the tenth time.” Or at least, that was my impression. She seemed at her most personable and approachable when she was talking about Alaska, however using Biden’s own son to make a political point about Iraq was reprehensible, in my opinion.
She learned from her opponents that using the opponents family for your own purposes is allowed. Though if I recall correctly you didn’t much care for the exploiting of Bristol’s unfortunate situation for political gain either, so you’re not a hypocrite unlike so many others around here.
Actually… SHE used her family for political gain thus making them fair game. She used them a point towards her credentials thus they faced scrutiny. Isn’t that fair?
Using your own family for political gain is no different than using your own college education, or your own military service, or anything else. Its an important part of a persons identity. Some seem to believe a candidate should pretend they don’t have a family, or just not mention them. I don’t think a candidate should hide important parts of their life from people.
Criticism of a candidate is obviously key to the electoral process, but at the same time using their family as a tool for personal attacks shouldn’t be part of that. There’s a very good reason the whole Bristol thing never really got any traction with the mainstream media: It isn’t, and was never relevant. Other than a few people who’ve never had a family or raised a child, people understood that teenagers do what they want to do, and sometimes screw up, regardless of parents best efforts and that it says nothing about a persons political credentials.
Both Biden and Palin have sons heading to Iraq, and I believe that is actually relevant, because it means they both have personal stakes in what happens over there, and that they really do care.
That’s basically the dividing line where mentioning a persons family is appropriate or not appropriate. Is it relevant to how they would perform in the office they are running for? I’d say having a family member in harms way is very relevant. But on the other hand a daughter who is almost 18 years old having a child does not really relate to her potential performance as Vice President.
There was the argument about abstinence-only education, and so forth, and trying to put Bristol forward as an example of why abstinence-only education doesn’t work, but no one ever really bought into that either. According to their website, high schools in Alaska offer comprehensive sex education. In addition, she isn’t 12 or 13, she’s almost 18. She knows everything there is to know, guaranteed. If not from her parents, then from friends, the TV, or the Internet. She obviously isn’t THAT sheltered since she supposedly she was going and drinking with her friends once in a while.
None of that is really relevant to a Vice Presidents ability to perform their duties. But the fact that they both have sons in Iraq is pretty relevant to how they are going to view funding and withdrawal timetables.
Well, and while I don’t agree with what some of my fellow democrats do for political gain, I will say that Biden didn’t say anthing along the lines of, “Well you have a pregnant daughter, shouldn’t you support birth control?” That would have been horrible and he would have been called on it. If she wants to use her own son to back up her point in Iraq, fine. But don’t start making a point about Iraq and then try and bring Biden’s son into it to validate it. There is a very big difference between what the candidates themselves do and what supporters of the candidates do. You can’t hold Obama and Biden responsible for the attention on Palin’s children just because some liberals are responsible, but Palin herself chose to focus on Biden’s son. I’ll stick by saying that it was reprehensible.
Yeah, she crossed the line. Joe demonstrated that he was the bigger person by not ripping into her own family situation. I gave him high marks for that.
See my post above. Their both having sons in Iraq is relevant to how they would handle funding and withdrawal timetables in Iraq, given that they have a personal stake. Whereas a girl who is almost 18 years old becoming pregnant says nothing about potential policies whatsoever. People can say what they’d like about abstinence-only education, but the fact is no President or Vice-President is going to go there. They can’t avoid the Iraq situation. We’re there, and its a major issue that needs to be addressed, but I can’t think of any President or Vice President directly involving themself in the sex education issue. It’s far too minor an issue for them to waste time on it.
It’s like criticising a candidate for their views on speed cameras, or sentencing guidelines for some particular crime. It’s an issue to be tackled on a local level and has really no relevance to the office of the President or Vice President. The issue is so unlikely to come up, that what they’d do if it did is irrelevant. They leave all that stuff for local governments and the courts.
I’m sorry, I disagree with you. Just because Joe Biden’s son is in Iraq doesn’t make him fair target in a political debate. His going to Iraq has relevance to Biden’s opinion of the war, just as Palin’s son going to Iraq has relevance to her own opinion. To try to shame your opponant for his war stance based on the fact that his son is in Iraq is inexcusable. Use your own family for your politcal talking points, don’t presume you know anything about the choices and hardships the Biden family is facing. If Biden had done the same thing to her I would have been ashamed of my party.
No need to apologize for disagreeing, Jane. Unlike most Americans I am quite welcoming of opposing viewpoints
And the issue of where to draw the line with a candidates family is something that always comes up, and there’s never an answer everyone agrees on.
In this particular situation, I think Palin probably only brought it up because she has a son in the same position, so it probably hit a nerve for her. Even if you feel it is inappropriate, it seems far more honest than having someone else do it so that you can keep your hands clean and deny all knowledge.
I know, you are quite reasonable as usual. However I’m not going to give her an out on this one. In the context she used it, which was disagreeing with Biden’s stance on the war by using his own son as an example, it was over the line. Also, just like I disagreed with accusations against Sarah Palin without proof (if you’ll recall I asked for proof on the rape kit thing when it was first mentioned her, instead of hopping on the bandwagon because I dislike her) unless you can prove that either Biden or Obama had a hand in any of the accusations against Palin or her children it is unfair of you to accuse them of it.
And just so DW cant say it….
In bed.
Anyone can say ‘in bed’.
Particularly when in bed.
I wish I was in bed.
Obama – Biden all the way!
off of a cliff !
It seemed there were times that Palin’s responses didn’t address the questions.
It would be absolutely fabulous to have Drew moderate any of theses debates.
(talk about the view from the common man, okay, not any more but he’s not forgotten his roots. I still drink a the bar he modeled the Warsaw after.)
So you’re from Cleveland then, eh? I miss that city. . .not sure why.
Whew!! She made it through ok! AOL polls show her winning by a percent.
I’ve only had a bit of time to peruse polls and it’s basically like I expected. On the more moderate sites its a 50/50 thing or heavily “no one won”, whereas on the partisan sites its more of a 75/25 split along party lines.
I’d say both debated very well, but with no real persuasiveness to independents. One thing I will give Palin credit for is she vastly exceeded the low expectations people had. No major screwups, and she surprised me a couple of times by going on the attack when I was expecting her to sort of backpedal. Though unfortunately both sides unabashedly misrepresented the voting record of the opposing side.
That’s why I don’t like Senators being up for President. You can never really tell where they stand because there are many reasons they could have voted for or against something.
Well, there are no real visionaries in the mix, that’s for sure! Your guy did this! But your guy did that! And so on… I was just so happy she didn’t flub up like in the interviews, not one “I’ll get back to ya on that!” Not sure if this helped the republicans though but it could have been far worse.
Certainly didn’t do any more damage at least. Though largely as it has been said you vote for the top of the ticket, not for the VP, so its really up to McCain to take back ground he has lost. All Palin had to do was stop from losing anymore, and I think she did that. Other than a few irrational, uneducated, or emotional voters, no one is going to vote against their own beliefs based on a VP debate. So given that neither side had any major gaffes, the status quo remains intact.
30% of VP’s become P’s either by taking over mid term (it was either 10% op 16% … I has a bad memry… have done this) or by being elected after.
McCain actuarially has a 1 in 4 chance of not finishing a 2nd term based on best case analysis of his melanoma.
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These factors combined are making me think more people need to be at least looking at the second seat.
Yeah but at the same time it’s not like you have a choice. You can’t pick a different VP, you’re just stuck with them. No one who agrees with McCain on 90% of policies is going to pick a candidate like Obama who disagrees with them 90% of the time because they have the more qualified VP.
At least not an informed voter, anyway.
ABC and CBS polls show a two to one win for Biden among independents. And ’she made it through ok?” Really? That’s what you want in a VP? But she didn’t flub it completely, she obviously studied hard and practiced for this debate. But she needed to knock it out of the park last night, not just do ‘ok.’ And she didn’t, which means McCain is still too far down in the polls, especially in key states, to make a comeback.
Well, I would have rather she did better than she did. I still don’t want Obama.
I don’t know Seth, I don’t think theres anything she could have really done. I hate to downplay the importance of the VP debate, but I don’t think it really matters much unless either side makes huge errors, which we didn’t see.
The VPs can screw things up if they do badly, but if they do well they can’t really gain any ground. All the Obama/Biden ticket has to do to get my vote is show me they have something more up their sleeve than “Well, we’re not George Bush.” They keep failing to do that. Everytime they harp on that, it sends me in the other direction a little bit.
Campaigning on “we’re not George Bush” just makes me think that they might as well be saying “hey we couldnt do any worse than the last 8 years right?”. Not reassuring at all, but I suspect many independent voters may fall for it.
Have you read Obama’s clearly spelled out plans on his website?
At least they have plans, I have yet to hear anything specific from the republicans
Jellybeans, you and I are on the same wavelength. I wrote the same thing all the way down below a few minutes ago.
I kind of agree with you on this one. I think everyone was looking forward to this debate because of Palin, especially after her Couric interview, however in the long run I don’t think the VP debate will mean much. I mean, obviously Dan Quayle is pretty much a moron and Bush I got elected. This is not to say I think Biden looked like a moron, I thought he was calm and precise and while he may not have wowed anyone, he didn’t rise to Palin’s baiting him either.
I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt. I wanted to give her a chance to prove herself.
If I heard “gosh darnit” ONE MORE TIME, I was going to slaughter something.
And that was just in the first 20 minutes.
I’m sure she’s a lovely and upstanding woman in her own right, but dear god above, I don’t want her as my vice president. (Hence why I’m voting for the other guys.)
I really tried. I couldn’t last.
Really, if we filled her full of any more helium, could we get her to pop?
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wakeuplovely
debate rambles
- She didn’t even answer the questions! I didn’t know debate questions were optional? She sounded SO rehearsed.
- The “cute” joking and shoutouts were really REALLY annoying. I switched over to Fox news and even the super conservative reporters admitted they were annoyed.
- More power to the VP? Really? Seriously?
- Thank you Joe for calling Palin on her lies about Obama raising taxes and not supporting funding for our troops.
- There is no “K” in Ahmadinejad.
- My biggest frustration is that Palin supporter will love her even more after tonight, and I want to strangle her.
WTH?
stream of consciousness posting?
More like “copypasta from my emo blog” posting.
Well, ummmmm, thanks for sharing? I guess?
I changed it after about 30-45 mins and flipped back every now and then. I got tired of the your guy sucks…well your guy blows crap. I’m officially sick of this 2 party race. Both parties rant about change. The only change I see is the person, not the politics. I’d rather see ALL candidates in a debate, not just the 2 strongest parties. You never know, you might hear something you like from another one.
No one won the presidential debate, and no one won this one. Biden didn’t foot in mouth anything, Palin didn’t blank out from what I saw of it.
The problem is that you can’t get out of a 2 party system without proportional representation.
For example, take three candidates, a right, center, and left. The center is where most voters are, so the center candidate would win – but the right and left will move their platforms towards the center and just squeeze the center out.
Once more: I like the idea of a five-party system (far left, center left, center, center right, far right) with Instant Runoff Voting. You vote for your top three candidates; if your number one guy doesn’t get enough votes, we drop him and recalculate candidate scores based on your number two. IRV could also support the option of many more parties and produce a more accurate cross-section of the voting base, while statistically creating a more centrist government (to prevent things from going too far in one direction or the other).
Instant run-off voting doesn’t need a defined number of parties. It will settle on the largest number that people can get their head around voting for.
In Australia, that number is three. Yes, we have five parties that can win at least one election somewhere in the country, but they don’t all put a candidate up in every location. In the city, the top parties (in order) are Labor, Liberal and
Greens in the country. In rural areas, the top parties are Labor, Nationals,
Liberal. The Family First party has minor support in the senate (where location of votes is hard to determine).
I agree totally herb. That system would be a lot better than what we’ve got.
Exactly. At least give the other parties to represent themselves. As of now don’t I think they need 15% of the vote to even get into a debate. Well how can they get 15% if their voices are never heard.
Agreed
Where are all my comments on this…damn. Anyway, I’m all for that.
- She didn’t even answer the questions! I didn’t know debate questions were optional? She sounded SO rehearsed.
- The “cute” joking and shoutouts were really REALLY annoying. I switched over to Fox news and even the super conservative reporters admitted they were annoyed.
- More power to the VP? Really? Seriously?
- Thank you Joe for calling Palin on her lies about Obama raising taxes and not supporting funding for our troops.
- There is no “K” in Ahmadinejad.
- My biggest frustration is that Palin supporter will love her even more after tonight, and I want to strangle her.
Some of her unprofessional moments of speaking really, really bothered me too.
I think the one that sticks out was the “Say it ain’t so, Joe.” That just seemed inane…
AKMADINEJAD!!!
AKMADINEJAD!!!
Sorry, had to get that out, K? Don’t go all apoplectic and strangle someone, K?
“There is no “K” in Ahmadinejad.”
That’s just a fail on your part. That’s actually the proper way to pronounce it if you are pronouncing it the way an Iranian would say it.
“Thank you Joe for calling Palin on her lies about Obama raising taxes and not supporting funding for our troops.”
Yet, you don’t mention where Biden did the exact same thing except about McCain wanting to deregulate healthcare (all he wants to do is make insurance purchaseable across state lines), or give tax cuts to oil companies (gee, funny how he only mentioned oil companies, McCain’s proposal was to give a tax cut to all corporations in every industry, not just Republican-friendly ones). I also liked his spin on the $5000 tax credit for health insurance. Biden told us that money was going to go ’straight into the pockets of the insurance companies.’ Where else is it supposed to go… it’s for buying insurance.
Both sides blatantly misrepresented the others record. If you choose to only see one side of it, then there’s nothing I can do to help you there. I wish there were less voters like you and your equally hatred-blinded opponents on the other side of the aisle though, our country would be a much better place.
If you click my name there is a link to a few of the other blunders each side made. Interestingly, it looks like Biden misrepresented McCain on the troop funding bill, which I did not catch. I had thought Biden was right on that one, but I guess not.
What drove me nuts (beyond the forced “Aw jeez” cutesiness) was the bit about how Sarah’s proud she’s never had to compromise. She just gets people together from both sides of the aisle and they work something out.
Oh, and the word is pronounced /NU-cle-ar/
That sounds conspicuously like a compromise…
So glad she is aware of such details.
I agree with you about the cutesiness!! She could tone that down quite a bit as far as I’m concerned and still come across as “folksy”. I don’t know why she takes it so over the top sometimes, maybe she was coached to lay it on like that. I wish she would toughen up.
She almost seemed like she was trying act like Tina Fey doing Sarah Palin, it was very weird. When she wasn’t going over the top like that I thought she actually did better than I thought, she certainly knew where her strong talking points were and stuck to them and she managed to make refusing to answer a question sound like a good thing. I felt the whole thing was a draw when I was expecting her to get creamed.
Didn’t she wink at the camera at some point? Gah.
She has a kind of winky thing she does sometimes. It’s not so much a wink in the traditional sense… who else does it… someone else does the same thing but I’m blanking on the name.
Like a something-in-her-eye kind of wink?
I’m sorry, every time I hear the phrase “something in my eye” I think of Selma Hyak in Dogma. Man, I would be a lesbian for her, I think.
I counted about 2 or 3 winks. Not sure why but those really bugged me too.
After the last 8 years, I’m not sure that nuclear will ever be pronounced correctly again, LOL.
You may very well be correct.
If you believe the Internet you’d think the pronunciation of “nuclear” is more important to voters than the economy or Iraq.
I called it… Earlier today I said that the reason the Repugs waited until this week to call out Gwen Ifill on her book is because they needed it as leverage in case Palin gaffed or to boost Palin “overcoming the biased mediator” if she did well…
Here’s an email I received from GOPSenators.com tonight:
“Watch out.
Sarah Palin is being set up.
The moderator of tonight’s debate is in the tank for Obama — this liberal PBS reporter is releasing a pro-Obama book … to debut on inauguration day.
Joe Biden is receiving debate advice from Hillary Clinton.
And, Barack Obama’s attack machine is gearing up to launch millions of dollars in new ads against Palin.”
Sorry, what exactly did you call? I’m confused. Polls show 95% of people thought Gwen was a fair moderator. I don’t see any Republican backlash. Even if what you said was true, Palin did quite well (87% are saying she did better than expectations) so there was no reason to blame it on the moderator.
But polls show, by a 2 to 1 margin, Biden winning the debate. And so the Republicans are going to spin it as moderator bias. They already have, in comments above yours.
What polls?
“Attack machine”? I’ve seen far more negative ads by McCain than by Obama…
I want an attack machine… God it would be rather lulzy to have a slander/libel/propoganda team for whenever I am mad.
“That guy cut me off. Cue the ads disparaging his maternal ancestor!!!”
DeathWyrmNexus wants safe driving conditions for ALL drivers. But Jerk Driver thinks he can just switch lanes whenever he feels like it, often without reguards to ANYONE ELSE ON THE ROAD. Is this the kind of driver we want in America? DeathWyrmNexus doesn’t think so. He’ll stand for your right to drive without fear of slamming on your breaks. That’s the kind of America he wants to live in.
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“My name is DeathWyrmNexus and I approve this post”
How’s that, can I be your Rove?
PS.
I put out this call in an old thread and nobody has yet responded…
Still waiting for a single, solitary LOL in which a Republican says something good about their own candidate. I made the original post on October 1st, 2008 at 1:39 pm… I wonder how long it’s going to take.
If you’re up for the challenge, post the link to your LOL in reply to this thread.
I admit I’m not a Republican, or even American, but I can think of one good thing to say about her.
At least she isn’t Dick Cheny or George Bush.
Why are you putting this in every thread? There are only 2 or 3 Republicans who even visit this site and comment regularly, none of which are going to bother making lols that will never make it to the front page.
A more fun challenge would be this: I’m waiting for a single, solitary LOL in which a liberal politician is portrayed in a negative light to make it to the front page. Only ones I’ve EVER seen were of Hillary Clinton or, arguably Bill Clinton. Though really the Bill ones were more pop-culture references to Family Guy or some other cartoon, rather than negative portrayals of him. And we haven’t seen a negative Hillary lol since she dropped out of the race and stopped opposing the Obamessiah.
Really you’re wasting your time. There is no incentive for a Republican or conservative to make lols here. I’ve said it a billion times before, if you can’t tolerate the fact that nearly every lol is a negative smear on a conservative politician, then you might as well go make your own site.
Obamessiah… i liek that….. still DO NOT WANT… i say we make the Governator the Presinator!!! (dont call me on all the rules, i know them…..)
Ya know, I could support Arnie for prez.
@Lolnathan:
“I’m waiting for a single, solitary LOL in which a liberal politician is portrayed in a negative light to make it to the front page.”
Well, I made the front page with an Obama LOL, finally, but the captions on it really aren’t negative at all, that’s probably why it’s there.
Sadness.
My “mean spirited” LOL’s will never make it, despite their hilarity.
Yeah you almost have to trick the voters into thinking you’re saying something nice about Obama, which kind of waters down your lol sadly.
I’m posting this because I want to make a point… The Repugnants can’t bitch and moan about how biased and slanted Pundit Kitchen is if you call them out on the fact that they never use the builder and they never make their own LOLs. Pundit Kitchen features user created content… What do they want? For the Liberals to make the LOLs for them? For PK staff to make them?
It’s like McCain saying “Life isn’t fair” in response to questions about Obama’s growing lead… Well McCain, maybe if you quit producing negative attacks on Obama and showcased your actual plans for America you’d be enjoying some better polling numbers.
Palin reminded me of Bush: Can’t pronounce ‘nuclear’ and said ‘uhm’ a lot. Either way, I’m not impressed..Which is why I’m voting for Patrick Bateman for president and Norman Bates as vice-president.
I was thinking on voting for my dog for prez and a beef taco for vp, hell it can’t get much worse.
Dude! That’s so disrespectful! A Presidential candidate should *never* eat his running mate! Bad dog!
lmao — i love you!
Wow… I really miss whose line is it anyway…
Whose line with Drew was ok, what I REALLY miss is the original whose line is it anyway with Clive Anderson.
Yes! Me too!
Lol. I could imagine the debates being a really funny game of Whose line is it anyway… But this time, THE POINTS DO MATTER!!!!
One thing I hear constantly is how Palin exceeded the low expectations people had of her. People, this is your potential VP. If you have low expectations of her and call last night’s debate a win for her based on THAT performance, there is something fundamentally wrong.
Not saying that Biden performed well at all, I expected much better and less fact-twisting from him, but really, dudes. Why should we be happy that a VP candidate exceeded LOW EXPECTATIONS? That’s not a win, that’s a definite fail (sorry). As a nation, we have low expectations of her but half of us wouldn’t mind seeing her as VP in the White House?
That being said, I really wish we had a third option.
When Obama exceeded low expectations in the debate with McCain it caused Obama to win the debate, and he is running for president!
Where did you hear there were low expectations for Obama in the debate? Who had low expectations? Obviously not his supporters, who you folks say worship him as a messiah. Not independents, who already approved of him more than McCain before the debates. You guys? He exceeded the expectations of people who demonize him and never would have voted for him anyway, is that what you’re saying?
It’s the teleprompter thing, he had gotten confused and messed up quite badly a few times when the teleprompter malfuntioned. I’m not saying expectations where as low as they were for Palin, that’s for sure.
teleprompter?
There are no teleprompters in debates…. are there?
I’m fairly sure national expectations of Obama weren’t as low as those of Palin, though. Obama is known to be a good speaker. Whether he is or isn’t is not really relevant to the expectations issue. My personal opinion on Obama’s speaking skills is that he’s ridiculously overrated, but that’s neither here nor there.
Point is: they haven’t kept Palin mostly out of the media because she’s a good speaker but makes mistakes. Honestly, the woman couldn’t or wouldn’t name a newspaper. She couldn’t name a Supreme Court case apart from Roe v. Wade. She can see Russia from her house. Those are the kind of expectations we were dealing with.
I do think the expectations we had of Obama were of another calibre. Lack of experience, empty promises of change, etc. etc. He didn’t have to prove himself to an audience all set to mock him for being essentially no more than Miss Alaska.
Might just be me being contrary, though, but I had high expectations for Obama performing in that first debate and he didn’t meet them, let alone exceed them.
If you hadn’t noticed, I’m not sure on who to vote for yet
I agree expectations weren’t as low for Obama as they were for Palin. But Palin is a good speaker, I don’t think she did her best in the recent hostile interviews which is a completely different thing. She is not very tough and doesn’t know how to defend her positions in the face of hostile attack which she probably never had to do before. It’s not that her positions are indefensible it’s just that she hasn’t had the practise. There were probably far more graceful ways of answering those interview questions than the way she did in those interveiws depending on what she wanted to say.
Oh, I agree with you. I think she’s far smarter than people give her credit for. But I’ve also seen people refer to Couric’s newspaper question as gotcha journalism (people, coin your own terms, as far as catchy new phrases go, this one IS half bad), which… No. Everybody in that position should be able to rattle off at least three newspapers/magazines that nobody is going to take umbrage over. I mean, everybody knows she’s a Republican and knows about her viewpoints. There’s no saving that with naming newspapers. Supreme Court cases, same thing.
I actually think McCain did her a giant disservice by picking her. From all accounts, she’s a very capable governor, but he’s forced her out of the safety of a familiar environment and she hasn’t been given proper time or training to deal with it.
That doesn’t take away from the fact that if Biden’s opponent had been anyone else than Palin and the debate would have gone the exact same way, it would likely have been considered a major Democrat win.
I was completely underwhelmed by both McCain and Obama in the first debate. I was not impressed by Palin or Biden either, but my pick for best debater among these four does go to Biden, especially for his relating to the middle class. I think he did well there (purely based on charisma and relating to the viewer), and especially at the end, I felt the emotion I had been missing up until then. Palin’s tone was a little off there, as if she wanted to commiserate but was afraid to go off script and be berated for it later. That’s what I got from the forced cheer, anyway.
Looking forward to the next one. I wish we also got McCain/Biden and Obama/Palin debates!
Interesting! I would love to see those debates too. I also agree 100% that she was tapped to soon. She just doesn’t appear ready and I hope it doesn’t ruin any chances she may have in the future.
WHICH is precisely WHY her selection as VP for McCain reflects so badly on his judgment. If Palin is a good candidate chosen too soon, McCain has badly overstepped himself by throwing her into the mix at this stage. I really don’t think this is the case, though. He just grabbed a likely pick and gambled. I don’t find that reassuring in the least, especially at this time in our nation’s history. We don’t need a craps player.
This was an awesome post, thank you. I also thought the emotion Biden had when talking about being a single dad and moving on and dealing with tragedy made him very honest and relatable. I’m not sure how Palin should have followed that up with her answering remarks, I think you’re right that she was probably afraid to deviate from the script and say the wrong thing, but it made her seem cold and uncaring, especially when she had just gotten done talking about her own family.
Wow, thank you! I do my best to see both sides, but the man made me tear up, damnit!
It was probably a lose-lose moment for Palin right there. She could have adjusted her tone to something a little more grave to seem less callous, but I blame that on the nerves. I don’t think she’s an actual bad person, just not quite ready for the position.
Can I still vote for Biden for president? *winks really obviously so people won’t bombard me with all the reasons why Biden sucks*
HOSTILE!?! Bwahaahahahahahaa!!!!
Let’s put her in front of Olbermann or Maher and see if your definition of hostile changes… I think you might have meant embarrassing, since most of the questions she stumbled over were questions even I could answer.
People didn’t have low expectations for Obama, so much as they thought he might get trounced by McCain because supposedly foreign policy is McCain’s “expertise.”
My favorite Palin line was regarding McCain when she said, “recognizing he is the man that we need to leave — lead in these next four years.” Nobody I’ve talked to personally caught that, but I did and think it’s a hilarious slip-up. Unfortunately, Biden didn’t leave me with any remarks that stuck.
I totally caught that.
I lol’d at that one too!
I loved the “Senators Obama and O’Biden…” boo boo that no one seems to have caught.
I wonder if the “O’Biden” was purposely slipped in or a real slip up. Funny either way.
Ooh, I missed the O’Biden remark. Darnit! I do hate missing a good laugh.
She also said McClellan when she was referring to General McKiernan. Several times.
I sadly reminded of a Mad TV skit called Lowered Expectations… Obama didn’t ascend to the sky but Palin was just expected not to wet herself. That is what I expect of my cat, not my VP.
And I am rather shocked/depressed (maybe) that Ema said Palin isn’t that tough. I thought that was the whole damn reason for picking her!? If we are going to judge our politicians by expectations we would be ashamed to give the special Olympics, then maybe we shouldn’t have them being in the election. I am tired of this Anybody can be President crap. No, you can’t. People who bust their ass and exceed expectations can be president. That isn’t a glass ceiling that is a wake up call to actually do the damn homework.
It is one of the things that pissed me off so much about college. I walked into a situation where I ended up broke and unable to get a job so I couldn’t afford to do the homework and then depression exasperated the situation. Did I deserve to graduate? No, despite circumstances outside my control, I still didn’t meet expectations, ergo wasted time and money.
If Palin can’t handle meeting HIGH expectations, she shouldn’t be there. Don’t sit there and tell me that you want an average soccer mom anywhere near the White House. That is just stupid. I want somebody who impress the hell out of me and get me out of this mess. The really and truly sickening thing is that none of the other three are really a whole lot better. Biden has proven he can’t get elected on his own. Obama is untested and thus can’t produce what he needs. McCain is well… A damn D student who got by on his background.
Give me a break and don’t give me your lowered expectation crap. Be pissed. Idiots are running. Why aren’t you pissed? And while I am trying to incite people, Congress isn’t any better. Hell, they are actually considered worse than Bush. That is like being told the crippled guy in the wheelchair can tap dance better than you.
Now I am going to stop and try to regain composure.
Your post could have been said in like 3 sentences DWN, but I agree, this whole election is about low expectations. When you have a choice of two tickets that campaign on a platform of “Well at least we’re not Bush.” Something is terribly, terribly wrong.
The bar is so low for this election it’s really pretty sad.
I wanted to vent so it was longer. I am glad we agree though. I just read all the commentary about how soft Palin was and nearly punched something.
They are giving us idiots because that what appeals to the lowest common denominator in society. They are going after the most votes! These candidates are picked very carefully to appeal to as many people as possible and that’s what you end up with. The truly strong and excellent people would never appeal to a majority, sad isn’t it?
… You’re right and I already knew you were right but seeing it again… I just want to leave work and go home. Then sit there and vent on video games and have sex til I forget what state I live in. I would need to check on my mom first since she has been ill before I tried something like that so she could watch my sons.
I might have to break out the flogger tonight and kick some ass. That will make my girl happy. Crazy damn Masochist. I am just really pissed after reading this forum today.
Honestly you need to logoff and go jerk the jerky or something dude. You’re freaking out.
Not freaking out. Just very annoyed with it all. Freaked out isn’t something you will ever see on here. Also, I am at work or I would love to take your advice.
That’s why they have private bathroom stalls
Not private enough for what level of attention I would need.
*claps* I whole-heartedly agree.
Awesome, I’m just glad I am not alone in being furious over the whole mess. Palin has been showboating as a tough girl the whole time and now we are reading how people are just glad she didn’t pee on her foot… It is very frustrating as I watch the rest of us strangle and die while we are giving “A for Effort” to our candidates. I am at the point where I want to just beat the crap out of all of them and then talk to them while they dwell over how red I just made their asses, hopefully getting the point of putting in actual effort.
McCain did something that sounded honorable until he looked like an ass and was told to leave. Now he is bragging about it. Obama can’t back anything from what I have seen. Biden needs to decide which damn party he is on and stop deriding his own group. Palin… I already stated my opinion on that…
Repub response to debate: “She didn’t totally suck! YAAAAAAAAAAAY!”
Why must you remind me…?
Damn. Never thought it would cause this much of a rant.
was leaning towards the “Whose Line” joke
Anywhooo… the morning after here in the Lou has been nothing but the local radio hosts trading “My candidate smells better than your candidate” barbs. One guy was talking about how he managed to get tickets and ended up sitting between Charlie Dooley and Kit Bond. He said it was very cold in that corner of the viewing area…
yeah, it was more fun here when we hosted the Final Four. Granted, WashU does need to get more attention on the national level (medical center and spinal cord research and all), but yesterday? Was just sad.
Just pointed out a flaw in the whole damn process, which is the candidates. No worries.
It’s a ghost town here today. All the politicos are gone.
I just couldn’t get my head around the whole “energy energy energy” thing. It was like someone pulled a string in her back.
God, I wish I could have gone, or gotten my mum tickets for her birthday.
Vote for my McCain Cake series! Yay! Cake!!
DWN, I am risking your wrath, but have you read the stuff on Obama’s site? It’s dry and vague but hardly dumb.
I used to say “But I don’t KNOW him!” also and then I went and read his plan. There are still questions, to be sure, but he isn’t a stealth candidate by any means.
Go look it up when you have the time. I think it will help.
His plan has changed so much in the last 3 years that he’s been in Congress that he probably can’t remember what he has down now (don’t ask me for a reference on that, it was all the flip-flopping during the primaries
). It irritates me that he would go around now saying that he’s been warning of the finance crisis for the last couple of years when it’s immenently provable that he hasn’t. And that McCain has. It irritates me that he says he voted against the Iraq war when he wasn’t even in Congress at the time. He really needs to go back over his own voting record before he starts making stupid claims.
Both sides are making outrageous claims that I would like both of their campaign managers to say, “Um, excuse me sir, but here is how you actually voted on things, where you changed your vote and what Mr. Opponent actually voted for as well.” It’s not exclusive to Obama.
Accountability? Girl… That’s a paddling.
I should have learned the last time. *goes back to watching the crock pot simmer for 8 hours*
Eh, wrath… Worst I can do is rant at/about you. Nothing to be concerned with. As for his site, I haven’t checked it. I have just listened to him, seeing what he says to the people. I keep waiting for him to spell it out with me looking right at him and he… doesn’t. I will check out the site later and either stay pissed or bang my head into a wall.
I pretty caught most of his talking points whether I like it or not. It is hard to say so I will just go with… I honestly don’t feel convinced yet but I will check it out.
Not to make a new fight here, but anybody else headdesking over reading how Palin is slamming Couric for the interview?
How dare you ask me questions and expect an answer! I’ll get you next time Couric!!!
In bed…
Screw it. I am too pissed to leave it at that. She was complaining that Couric didn’t let her talk about her message… I am sitting at work wanting to yell at my monitor, “We don’t need a damn campaign ad, you dingy (insert crude explicitive here). Just tell us how you plan to actually DO something.”
Didn’t let her talk about her message? That’s not what an interview is for. We know what the campaign’s platform is, we can go to the Web site. Besides, she can still get back to her with the message. Good FSM. Couric actually does her job for once and then people whine about it. It’s no win. She asks softball questions, she’s biased. She tries to get answers, she’s biased. WTH.
The other thing that got me is Palin saying that she couldn’t win in the interview. McCain was actually “joking” about life being unfair when Obama jumped in the polls with Michigan. I am just thinking… These are mavericks, toughies who can lead the country?
Life being unfair. Hmmmm, well polls are a form of majority rule, which is the foundation of democracy. Interviews are a situation based on the idea of asking questions to get answers. So when neither go your way, it isn’t fair…
Perhaps my image of what denotes a maverick is flawed but I didn’t think petulance was one of the shining qualities…
Palin is just mad because she totally failed that interview and took a nosedive because of it.
When you can’t come up with a good answer, attack the question…
Well, I am surprised to find I agree with Sarah Palin on something. Katie Couric is annoying.
*headdesk* Lol, I suppose you have me there.
John McCain: Maverick! Maverick! Maverick!
Inigo Montoya: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Inconceivable!!
*gives five internets*
Don’t worry, we’ll leave Obama behind in the polls when we reach the Cliffs of Insanity.
Welcome to the show where everything’s made up and the points don’t matter – just like foreign policy experience. If you don’t have it, you don’t need it!
Debate? Wasn’t as funny as I thought it would be. Like the rest of television.