Comments on: not now honey

By: Flying Spaghetti Monster

Flying Spaghetti Monster — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:57:04 +0000

Did someone call for me?

By: rehbeinator

rehbeinator — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:47:36 +0000

This type of argument will quickly lead to a discussion of moral relativism versus moral absolutism, which really never goes anywhere.

I’m going to say that the Jains have a very interesting code of morality, but it isn’t the correct one. Their morality isn’t as valid because it is incorrect. Yes, my worldview may be very closed-minded, but at least it’s correct.

By: Seth

Seth — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:44:36 +0000

By having doors and windows in your house, you are inviting intruders. By having material possessions, you are inviting thieves. By letting others look at you, you are inviting rape.
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Using your analogy, abortion is like, you invite someone over for a party, they bring their elderly relative on a respirator and feeding tube, and they leave them there claiming that by inviting the person, you agreed to take care of the elderly relative. So you remove the feeding tube, and the old person dies because their body isn’t capable of supporting itself and you aren’t required to be their slave.

By: rehbeinator

rehbeinator — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:41:46 +0000

I understand the argument you are making, but I disagree. A person doesn’t have to be a mother to understand that killing an embryo is wrong. That’s a pretty easy concept to grasp.

By: DeathWyrmNexus

DeathWyrmNexus — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:36:16 +0000

The whole life of the woman who is suffering. That’s my choice. I won’t sacrifice her for your ideals.

By: Seth

Seth — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:34:46 +0000

There is a religious group in India, the Jains. They believe all life is sacred. They only eat what is given to them, wear masks to prevent inhaling bugs and microbes, go naked everywhere so no plants or animals need be harmed to clothe them, and sweep the ground in front of them to prevent trampling of other life.
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How would you feel if they forced this behavior onto you? After all, their moral system is just as valid as yours. In their eyes, you are committing murder every day. Does their belief that you are a murderer make you one?

By: Redneck

Redneck — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:32:29 +0000

Nine months of a life or a whole life?

By: Seth

Seth — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:29:20 +0000

Wrong. No society in the history of humanity has ever forbidden killing completely. Society always reserves the right to kill to protect itself, whether in the form of execution or war. The question is as it always has been, does the evil of killing outweigh the good? Unwanted children make poor citizens, and are more likely to commit crimes. Notice, the crime rate started to plummet exactly eighteen years after Roe v. Wade. Forbidden abortion damages society. Whether society is justified in killing fetuses is the question, not whether fetuses are alive.
–
In war, the innocent are killed. So too with capital punishment, as justice is never perfect. Do not pretend like our society has any qualms against killing the innocent when it benefits our society. The only self-consistent position to take is to be against all killing whatsoever. That includes killing animals and plants. If you kill anything in order to survive and prosper, who are you to say that others may not?

By: DeathWyrmNexus

DeathWyrmNexus — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:28:49 +0000

Ditto

By: DeathWyrmNexus

DeathWyrmNexus — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:28:05 +0000

I have to agree with the person who was saying that Lifebearer sounds like a video game character class.

By: DeathWyrmNexus

DeathWyrmNexus — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:25:43 +0000

I have a four year old I think has enough energy to run our house and a four month old who is starting to realize his legs might just work. Crazy fetuses and their tricks.

By: DeathWyrmNexus

DeathWyrmNexus — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:22:17 +0000

Just because you want the fetus in the world doesn’t mean the woman should suffer. You are also missing the point that as a species, it is not our best interest to reproduce right now. Ever hear of overpopulation? You know, that crazy science stuff you have been ignoring…

By: rehbeinator

rehbeinator — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:21:28 +0000

Embryos are not intruders; they are invited guests. By deciding to have sex, a woman takes the risk of getting pregnant, and it is therefore her responsibility to care for the child (this responsibility is also shared by the father, but he seldom holds up his end of the deal). Using your analogy, abortion would be like inviting someone to your home and then, after they get there, changing your mind, declaring them an intruder, and killing them.

By: Liz

Liz — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:20:14 +0000

yes all 14 year old girls that are raped by their fathers probably deserved it.

By: DeathWyrmNexus

DeathWyrmNexus — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:19:17 +0000

And I feel it is wrong to punish the women for the father’s crime either. She didn’t have a choice and now you believe she should endure pregnancy for nine months while passing along the genes of the man who raped her. That is some sick thinking you have there…

By: rehbeinator

rehbeinator — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:12:33 +0000

There’s no good reason to punish the child for the father’s crime. In my opinion rapists, not their children, should get the death penalty.

By: DeathWyrmNexus

DeathWyrmNexus — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:10:23 +0000

I am DeathWyrmNexus and I approve this message.

By: Liz

Liz — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:09:56 +0000

no i find it hilarious also.

By: Redneck

Redneck — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:05:48 +0000

Should someone who murders another be killed for his or her own actions? You say no. Yet, you seem perfectly content with killing a defenseless and guiltless baby for the actions of another.

And terminally ill children have nothing to do with this conversation.

By: hamjudo

hamjudo — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:00:34 +0000

I prefer “maverick spin”.
I want to help McCain/Palin win the convicted pedophile vote, even if it means they lose the vote of every female in the country.

By: bittervoter

bittervoter — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 19:58:26 +0000

and that’s just what I get back, am taxed less to begin with.

By: bittervoter

bittervoter — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 19:57:30 +0000

I get back 502 bucks, with McCain, I’d get ziltch. I work plenty hard and need even that little bit back way more then Mr. C.E.O, whether he’s C.E.O of a huge business or a relatively small one.

By: Liz

Liz — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 19:57:06 +0000

denying rape victims the morning after pill is an obvious evil as far as I’m concerned.

By: DeathWyrmNexus

DeathWyrmNexus — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 19:55:15 +0000

I somehow doubt that will be a problem with my oldest. He flirts heavily with every girl he can see. So I would guess that would happen with my youngest since he is only four months old and I can’t get a read on what he likes yet. Guy/Guy invokes my ick reflex but I wouldn’t hold it against him. Just tell him to be careful and that I will beat him with a stick if he gives me any details. For those who might try and call me out on the opposite, if my boy tries to give me any details about his girlfriend, I will be weirded out and sic his mother on him.

By: Caed

Caed — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 19:51:49 +0000

Yes, bacteria etc are life. But there’s a difference between them and fertilized eggs- they don’t need outside support to survive, to find food, to reproduce themselves.

By: froofrou

froofrou — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 19:46:10 +0000

What happens when your boy brings home a boy

By: DeathWyrmNexus

DeathWyrmNexus — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 19:43:50 +0000

I told my girl that if we had a girl, I would have to buy a hat, shotgun, and rocking chair. I also told her to keep me from killing the boys that come over. So I am not sure how that will go.

By: froofrou

froofrou — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 19:38:11 +0000

Or whatever the number is, lol. I’m too busy getting ready for work to do the math.

By: froofrou

froofrou — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 19:37:30 +0000

*sigh* I have to worry what my husband will do when my daughter brings home a boy for the first time. It may be the first recorded 144th trimester abortion

By: DeathWyrmNexus

DeathWyrmNexus — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 19:33:53 +0000

Just all the more reason to adore you, hun. I get a little ill in these debates too because we did consider abortion for our first because of the circumstances which are messy to get into so I won’t. Now I just hurt to think of a world without his mischief. It is why I get so indignant when people try to say that abortion is easy, even to just consider. It isn’t. I do believe it is a life but I also believe in desperate measures. I am just glad I had a choice in the matter, a choice I was given by my fiancee’. That choice made all the difference and I don’t regret any of it. My oldest is beautiful just as my youngest is beautiful.

I love my boys and I am glad you love your daughter. Now I just have to worry about my woman trying to talk me into trying for a girl. T_T

But yea, I am getting sappy on a lol site and that is a sin against… something I’m sure. So I am going to be done here unless Gabe decides to stir up trouble.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 19:21:59 +0000

Sometimes I think I’m the only person who sees the irony of these “discussions.”

THE INTERWEBZ: not supporting your right to free speech as much as expected, actually.

By: froofrou

froofrou — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 19:05:02 +0000

I never said they didn’t speak out, I said they didn’t try to incite violence. Jesus taught the same thing. Speak out, but in love. The only time He got violent was when they were misusing the Temple.
This discussion is extremely hard right now because I’m looking at my beautiful daughter and can’t imagine life without her. But I also can’t imagine what would have been if I hadn’t been married and had a good job at the time I got pregnant with her. I refuse to try to dictate anyone else’s beliefs for them, as I said earlier. I can’t imagine what Herb went through, or what you went through, even for that 10 seconds. I was scared because my daughter was born at 33 weeks, but she cried immediately and was out of the NICU in 12 days. That’s beyond lucky, considering some of the other children who were in there with her. So I can’t imagine not going out of my way to save this precious life I have with me now. BUT, having said that, I can’t imagine what other people have to go through. So I WILL NOT dictate a course of action based off my beliefs. I believe it, however you are not obligated to believe the same. I will tell you if you ask, I will stir things up a little on here for the fun of it, but I won’t tell you that you are going to hell for having a different belief system than I do.

By: DeathWyrmNexus

DeathWyrmNexus — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:45:09 +0000

I have yet to see how your acquaintances invalidate a woman’s right over her own body.

By: markmier

markmier — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:37:41 +0000

I believe that “Prolife” is claiming that half of all the embryos and fetuses that have been aborted qualify as “women.” Even though many of those embryos and fetuses did not display any phenotypical sex characteristics yet.

By: Ignatz

Ignatz — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:30:27 +0000

Obviously you haven’t actually read Roe v. Wade. Here’s the simple version: abortion is sometimes medically necessary. Whether or not it is medically necessary is a decision best left to the doctor and the patient, rather than to a judge or a politician. It’s ultimately a question of personal liberty: I have the right to decide what happens to my body, even if someone else dies as a consequence of that decision. It’s the same reason we don’t have forced organ donation. If I decide that nobody else can have my blood or corneas or kidneys when I’m dead, then that’s that. People may die or live in blindness, but my decision about my body is paramount and inviolable. (Unless I’m a woman, then I don’t have the rights given to a cadaver.)

By: dankro

dankro — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:29:01 +0000

Good Izzard reference. +2 points.

By: Neal

Neal — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:18:56 +0000

Liberals must be pretty desperate!

By: Ignatz

Ignatz — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:12:17 +0000

Evidence plz. kthxbai.

By: Klishu

Klishu — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:01:41 +0000

He/She is a human life because he/she has the genetic structure of a human being.

A bacterium is not a human being because it has a (very) different genetic structure than that of a human being.

By: Klishu

Klishu — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:58:27 +0000

A Tapeworm is not a Human Being because it has a different genetic structure
than that of a Human Being (guess what… it has a genetic structure of a
tapeworm).

On the other hand, even a single-celled human zygote has the full genetic structure of a human being which makes him/her a human being with one cell.

Are you prepared to discriminate between human beings of different ages?

By: Kuromisa

Kuromisa — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:46:40 +0000

I was making a joke. My sense of humor is kind of hard to judge sometimes. But yes, the term does make me think of Final Fantasy. It was kind of an unfortunate turn of phrase.

That said, no need to get personal.

By: DeathWyrmNexus

DeathWyrmNexus — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:45:17 +0000

Those aren’t miracles. Those are every day occurences brought on by the emotion called hope. The miracle would have been the child living. That did not happen. There was no miracle. Herb has all my sympathy and thoughts as I know what it means to be a father trapped in a moment wishing for everything. My second son was born blue and not breathing. They managed to resuscitate him but for those ten seconds, I was in hell. Absolute hell. My fiancee’ was asking how he is and all I could think is that I couldn’t tell this crying woman what was going on until I knew for certain. I could only tell her it was a boy.

Then, I got my miracle. It only took ten seconds but he cried nice and loud and my hell was over. Thinking I had witnessed a stillborn for ten seconds lets me know the difference between miracle and tragedy. Herb had a tragedy, I had a minor miracle since nothing else has gone wrong.

So don’t pull the miracle crap. Herb endured a tragedy and my heart goes out to him.

By: DeathWyrmNexus

DeathWyrmNexus — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:34:43 +0000

The abortion decision is very, very cold. We considered it given the circumstances of our first boy but made the decision to keep him. Still, the thought of it makes my stomach ill all over again.

No, it is not an easy way out, let alone even easy to consider.

By: DeathWyrmNexus

DeathWyrmNexus — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:32:11 +0000

And you should really learn to read things in context. He was debating those who use religion as reasoning, therefore he brought up evidence from their own source.

Learn more before you decide to be patronizing.

By: DeathWyrmNexus

DeathWyrmNexus — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:30:46 +0000

Gandhi and MLK still spoke out against the acts instead of saying Render onto Ceasar. They still spoke out, love.

By: DeathWyrmNexus

DeathWyrmNexus — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:17:30 +0000

Morals which are completely subjective to the individual… Ergo, your morals do not equal the morals of another.

By: DeathWyrmNexus

DeathWyrmNexus — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:15:51 +0000

Actually Death Penalty is a Judge deciding if a man lives or dies and the law backing him up either way. The man murders/rapes somebody which I feel deserves death everytime, personally. However the law decides to have degrees and gray area to allow for the man to live or die based on the almost arbitrary decision of jury members and the supposed educated decision of a judge.

War is almost never the choice of the people actually fighting it. They are there to defend their country but the cause of the war might have nothing to do with their morals or beliefs.

Abortion is the choice of a mother to kill the unborn child in her womb.

All concern death. Those are the most adamant about prolife tend to bring up the sanctity of life and how it is absolute but then they support war and the death penalty.

I am an oddball in that I support a woman’s right to choose, I support war if we are actually there for a worthy cause, and I am a vindictive person who believes in the death penalty. Why? Because in all things I believe in choice. The man/woman chooses to rape/murder, the soldier choose to serve, and finally the mother chooses not to be a mother.

By: jellybeans

jellybeans — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:07:11 +0000

Nope, if you are that curious you can look it up. I am done with my bible reading days.

By: Sam

Sam — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:06:44 +0000

Completely respect your opinion on this issue but there’s something that I can’t understand about some of the pro-lifers supporting McCain-Palin. I see that argument a lot that the women just need to be more responsible (and I completely agree that it’s horrible when I see reckless females AND males behaving irresponsibly and then not owning up to the consequences, not just with this issue but in all aspects in life). But what I don’t understand about McCain-Palin is that not only are they pro-life but they (at least Palin) support abstinence only being taught in schools which honestly I don’t think works well at all. And here is where this gets personal to me, McCain has voted AGAINST requiring insurance companies to cover birth control. How is teaching abstinence only and making it harder for people to get birth control going to help people make responsible decisions so that they are never in a position to even consider abortion/adoption? Limiting access to birth control/contraceptives doesn’t just effect “teens with raging hormones” it effects responsible women like myself who are trying to prevent pregnancy until they feel they are in a financial and emotional place where they can give that child the best life they can. It effects even married couples who are already supporting their children comfortably and one more would put them under right now. I can understand why someone would be pro-life but I cannot understand how they can support someone who is trying to make it harder to PREVENT pregnancy.

By: DeathWyrmNexus

DeathWyrmNexus — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:05:33 +0000

Oooooh, good point. Makes it all tight and fun.