1929
1929 you’re doing it right
(Lehman Brothers)
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THE MARKETS WILL RALLY!!!!
Before they fall again.
Proof that the GOP wants BIG governemtn. They want it to preserve their golden parachutes. They want it to keep the general public poor whaile they reap the benefits. Anyone who votes GOP and who makes less than $100,000 a year is a moron.
This is the thing that gets me about all those people who were crowing about the Fall Of Communism; Capitalism keeps falling over and over, we just keep setting it back up again!
Suggested Reading: A Short History Of Financial Euphoria, John Kenneth Galbraith
This is the market correcting itself. The economy is cyclical. It’s unhealthy for an economy to constantly go up and up and up and up.
And I don’t know about you, but I prefer to keep what I worked for in my pocket and not give it to someone who didn’t work a lick.
What about people who are incapable of working, such as the heavily disabled? In a working communism, each gives according to their abilities.
That’s the theory, but it never works out that way in real life. In practice, each gives the bare minimum that they can get away with, because they know they’re going to get the same recompense regardless. You can’t counter this without offering incentives for those who are able; these by their nature are unavailable to the disabled, and you have then betrayed the ideology.
Oh yes. I never said communism worked, I was just responding to to Kel’s post.
The only incentives are to support your fellow man, work for the betterment of the state and receive fair and adequate compensation as a reward for your utilitarian efforts. Sounds pretty good to me.
Communisim doesn’t allow competition, and competition is the only way new things get invented to make life either easier or better. This bailout is a socialist life raft that gives people the false hope that the government will fix everything.
Except the neither communism nor socialism is meant to have a central government.
Sounds like a load of fertilizer to me. Do you really want the government regulating what comprises “fair and adequate compensation”? You can’t possibly be such a fool. Work for the betterment of the state? No thanks, I think I’ll work for my own betterment, and if the state wants my services then they can pay me what I think is fair recompense.
Really, you need to take that “little red book” nonsense elsewhere. Americans, of whatever stripe, generally want nothing to do with that tripe.
That is because most Americans, as you just proved, are so staunchly opposed to anything that has to do with a progressive approach towards social change. Why? Because the majority are comprised of selfish, asinine, gluttonous, intolerant fools such as yourself who are so firmly nestled in your soiled little hole that you cannot see that the world has left America in the dust in terms of social progress.
Spoken like an ignorant foreigner who is so sure they know all about Americans base on what they have seen on TV.
I’m looking at Lists_of_countries in Wikipedia, and seeing in most lists that the US has worst scores than most OECD countries in every list related to social progress. Including health, peace, crime, and the environment; even many lists related to economics and politics. And we couldn’t forget the encompassing “List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index”.
Because Wikipedia is such a great source
I don’t want to work for my fellow man. I want to pay MY mortgage, make sure MY children are fed and clothed and prepare for MY retirement. If my fellow man can’t do the same thing for himself and is capable of doing so, he can rot in his old age, as far as I’m concerned.
That’s so nice. We need more people like you in the world.
Yes, we do.
We have too many people like that in the world. That’s why communism fails. Yes, in a perfect world, communism is the perfect government, but the world is far from perfect. We just have to work with what we’ve got, and that’s why capitalism is the better system in practice.
Okay, but am I not entitled to my beliefs? Personally, I think I have great reason to think the way I do.
Nobody said you don’t have a right to your own beleifs. However, I also have a right to my beleif that you are a prick who doesn’t care a damned bit about his fellow man.
So what’s your point? Charity starts at home.
But it shouldn’t end there.
It does if you’re Joe Biden.
Communism fails because the majority of people are naturally competitive.
it doesn’t work out because there are many who want to work harder and earn more for their labor. under communism, that would never happen. everyone is treated the same and in doing so the incentive to achieve more is lessened since in the end, you are still the same as everyone else.
now doesn’t that sound like a distopia in the making?
“correcting itself” or “being corrected by the government at the expense of the tax-payer?” I see a slight difference…
Learn basic economics please. In order to boost the economy in a recession, the govenment lowers interest rates first and then if a further boost is needed, the government lowers taxes (which is only done second because it takes time for congress to approve of the tax cuts). This is done to increase the profitability of investment, so more money will be put into the economy by investors, which then increases consumption (because invested money is spent by the investee, which when spent goes to the average joe worker, while money being saved just sits there.) An increase in investment has a multiplying effect on the total GDP of the country with a smaller increase in investment boosting the economy many times more than what was invested.
Another short term strategy is an increase in government spending, which has the same effect as an increase in investment, because it is really just investment by the government. Don’t get this confused with higher taxes, because that would be pointless, because it would just hurt investors. The governemnt will make up the money later in an expansion period (or just go into debt, but whatever)
Keep in mind that this only works in the short term (and a recession is considered short term.)
The crap wich is going on right now isn’t about taxes and interest rates, it’s about the 700 billion dollar rescue plan, wich is indeed not the market correcting itself. It’s funny, huge losses are socialised (Wich either requires cash from the tax-payer, or a huge loan, the latter apperantly being the cause with this plan. Paying loans with loans, nais
) but huge profits go right into the pockets of the wealthiest. Why is Average Joe only getting the nasty crap on it’s back?
That is something I would like an answer for as well. I am not seeing return on my investment as a tax payer, some jackass who is taking my tax money is.
So I’m a little late in responding, but I never said that I agreed with the bail out. In fact, I outright disagree with it. I think it’s awful. That being said, the failure of these financial institutions IS the market correcting itself. AIG got into business it had no business getting into in the first place. So why are we shocked it failed?
Oh…and by the way, it was able to get into trouble because of an act that was repealed in the CLINTON administration. Chew on that.
So the government bails out some of these companies to the tune of $700 billion dollars and we get the bill for it. This is fair? The CEOs of these companies walk away with millions and will not have to pay a dime to undo the damage they’ve done. Is this okay with everyone?
I agree. No matter what, we keep paying while their pockets get fatter.
See the comment above. The failure of the institution is the market correcting itself. Not the bailout.
Today, the White House released a statement criticizing Congress’s potential plan to limit CEO compensation at the companies the federal government is bailing out, firmly standing against any “punitive measures”:
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We certainly understand and are sympathetic to the sentiment regarding the pay of CEOs and senior management of these firms, but we have to focus on the problem, and the problem is that we need these firms to participate in the program and sell us this debt. Having punitive measures would provide a disincentive for firms to participate, and that would make the program much less likely to succeed.
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CEO compensation and corporate governance in public companies are very important issues — especially when receiving taxpayer support — but we need to be focused on fixing this problem in our markets right now. We can and should return to those issues once we get this legislation passed.
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President Bush also released another statement earlier today warning Congress against inserting any “unrelated provisions” — such as help for struggling homeowners — in the $700 billion Wall Street bailout.
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FYI – The bailout is costing each and every American $2000. This is your money given to corporate America without any limits placed on CEO bonuses. Bonuses that were paid to top execs in some cases exceed the money that is needed now to bail out individual companies. I think I read that Bear Stearns paid something like 39 BILLION in bonuses and now need 29 BILLION in bailout money.
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For those of you following along at home this means they could give back the bonuses and have a 10 billion dollar overage but instead we will be handing over our taxpayer money and not even limiting these companies from handing out another 20 BILLION in bonuses if they feel like it.
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But as long as we don’t help the poor bastards losing their homes the republicans are A-OK with the plan.
Always nice to see you, love. Now I just wish you brought better news instead of making me want to bang my head on the wall.
I hate our government and this country’s large companies. I wish there were a way out. I’ve gotten to the point that I just really don’t want to be here anymore, but where would I go? Is there anything better? Or do I just shut up and bend over? I’m really, totally disgusted with this country.
Canada, Australia, New Zealand, or the UK present good English-speaking alternative residences. Anywhere else will depend on your proficiency in foreign languages.
Assuming they want to take you in.
True enough, though the asylum system in the UK is completely hosed at the moment, and any attempt to eject asylum-seekers is usually met with horror by the Labor and LibDem factions.
Assuming one has marketable skills, however, gaining a work visa shouldn’t be terribly difficult.
Now I need to sell myself to England. I suppose I need to keep my thoughts on figurehead government leaders to myself because I don’t want to go to Australia. Too many dangerous little critters wandering around.
I could go to Canada I suppose… Not in the mood to be frozen over though.
I imagine Sydney or thereabouts in Australia is fairly well civilized and free of dangerous critters, at least relatively. I wouldn’t mind seeing what was available down that way. I just have to perfect my phony Canadian accent before I dare travel abroad…
I know people in Australia, they are telling me of new little hybrids moving about. So no, couldn’t pay me enough. And I would have to wait longer for game releases. Homie don’t play that.
I lol’d at the accent comment.
The only dangerous creature that you would need to worry about in Melbourne is the Whitetail Spider, they are not uncommon in houses. We also have around the country, 8 of the 10 world’s deadliest snakes. But they are not a problem if you either stay out of parks during summer, or know reasonable first aid.
I’ve been living here all my life and I don’t personally know anyone who has been injured from a snake or spider bite.
I’m killing at least 1 of those a week. They don’t bother me much, but my wife freaks whenever she sees one. I look at it and think, hell, smaller then a black widow and just smash it. Now the one’s that really bother me are the huntsman spiders. Not necessarily dangerous, but they’re just like huge and freaky looking!
I usually do a bit of a double take when I see a huntsman, but I just ignore it after that.
Whitetails on the other hand are actually dangerous, and if I realise the spider I’m looking at is one of them, I will kill it.
Yaaaaa, still not convinced…
I’ve done that, eh. I can also pull off German if not required to speak.
Don’t bother working on your accent. Most Australians can’t tell the difference between someone from the East coast or someone from Canada.
We can usually pick out Southerners, but we wouldn’t treat them any different than someone with a Canadian accent.
I almost got in a bar fight in Brisbane because someone would not believe that I wasn’t a Canuck.
Everyone that hear’s my accent always, and I mean ALWAYS ask if I’m Canadian frist? Why? Because the Canadians spit the dummy if you ask them if they’re American.
Just be prepared to drop some serious money. Otherwise, I think I would avoid Sydney and head down towards Melbourne. It’s much more civilized.
I’ve never been there, but I’ve heard good things about Perth, on the west coast.
If frustrating government is a reason to move, they wouldn’t really want to head to any of those places. Well, Canada would sort of be okay I guess. But the other countries will nanny-state you to DEATH.
But statistically, death is likely to be slightly further away.
“FYI – The bailout is costing each and every American $2000. This is your money ”
While I agree with you in principle, this statement is a bit misleading. No one is being charged $2000, and the average person would in fact probably end up paying even more if these corrupt companies didn’t get bailed out.
Sadly, this $2000 a person is being absorbed into a debt that’ll never get paid, because no one wants higher taxes to pay some huge ethereal debt that they cannot really understand without an economics degree.
Anyway, I don’t know what the solution is here, but a socialist style bailout of companies who screwed the pooch is not the answer. It’s just a band-aid. We need long term reform on this sort of stuff.
The mantra of “public risk, private profits” is utter BS.
The weird thing of this whole thing is that Morgan Stanley is now a bank. Weird.
Weak caption.
hardest I’ve laughed in a good while
So full of WIN, I cried a little….
Panic of 1907… ur doin’ it right as well.
The reason you are not seeing a return for your taxpayer investment is that this country is well on it’s way to being a socialist country. The rich get richer and everyone else gets what is left.
Actually that sounds more like unregulated capitalism.
Unregulated capitalism invariable leads to socialism for the rich only. Money equals power. Power lets you take more money. If you have enough money to manipulate the markets, eventually you will end up with enough to manipulate the government. Then, you just vote yourself a bunch of favorable policies. Yet some idiots think the answer to this problem is less regulation, not more.
But, if we have more regulations, then those same powerful people will be the ones to implement and enforce them, and that doesn’t feel comfortable to me either. If we just had the courage to let the market works things out and the compassion to care for our neighbor instead of letting the government do it I think things would work themselves out.
I find that to be a tad naive. The people you are talking about who would be enforcing the policies would still be the ones needing to care for their fellow man. Why would less policies make them care more/less than they already do/don’t?
The time before we regulated things, we had child workers and people falling into the meat grinders with us eating them on accident. Regulation fixed that, deregulating would be a step backwards.
Companies prove they don’t give a damn if they don’t have to.
Regulation is ok to a point. Past that point you have drones.
True but without any regulations, well…
I’m agreeing with you, to a point
With all these points, you’re bound to have a prick or two.
Are you watching me shower again?
Not really talking about workplace safety regulations but this banking/home mortgage mess. Seems they were giving loans to people who couldn’t afford them for political reasons, but hey, they were making money and now homes are getting foreclosed and taxpayers are bailing out companies right and left. Yuk…
With the CEO’s taking the money and run. I shall second the Yuk…
Since when do CEOs of financial companies do things for political
reasons? Deregulation may have let them, but no one forced them to. And if something is deregulated, and then rich people do it, you can bet those rich people were the ones pushing to have it deregulated. Follow the money.
You can’t count on people to care about each other… um… ever. We teach our kids to share in kindergarten but that is the last place we mention it. Human nature makes philanthropy (leaving people hoping for the chance of being someone’s pet cause) and socialism, where it’s too easy to take advantage of the system.
But then we are at the mercy of the rich and power hungry, we are giving them our money and expecting them to do what needs to be done, and look what happens… Poor us.
So instead of trying to do something about it, we should just… Give up?
No, we shouldn’t.
That was my thinking.
So what’s wrong with people looking out for their own best interests? I think the people of this country (generally speaking) expect our government to do the right thing FOR US. They don’t. They never have, they never will. If enough people are disgusted enough to take action (whatever that might be), we might make some headway. In the interim, we get to read about how one man walks off with $39 million while the rest of us get shafted for $2k to pay for his ineptitude. People need to STOP sharing and take back what’s theirs and tell the government that we’ve had enough of their bail-outs and looking the other way while greedy CEOs get to live in luxury for the rest of their lives.
You seem to think that without government, the playing field would be MORE level and the rich would have LESS power to control us. I say, government is the only thing standing between the average working guy and corporate feudalism. Big corporations now have more power than most governments, and you want to do away with the only thing keeping them from owning you completely. Smart.
Government is just as full of crooks and the innept as any business, you have to admit. With power and money they are just as capable at messing things up, creating unecessary regulations and keeping needed regulations from passing.
Everytime you think we would be better without government, take a look at Somalia. They haven’t had a government since 91′. Yep, they are doing great…
As for the ineptitude and corruption of governments, well, we put them in there. We need to root them out.
Again, I never said we don’t need a government. We absolutely do. Just not the one we have. Or we need to make modifications to the one we have. We’re screwed though, considering we all know that even though one person is elected, another can take office. I have just lost all faith in our government and am saddened we are stuck with it, such as it is.
Apparently, you can’t read. Not ONCE did I say we need to get rid of the government. Read before you post.
I agree that it sucks. What we should demand is that the people who made the mess help clean it up with at least some of those gigantic bonuses.
To my mind, that is an aristocracy. How off am I?
By so little I want to cry…
Sarcasmometer malfunction. It seems you are describing every government that ever was? So far no one’s come up with a system that eliminates bureaucracy.
Oops, that was supposed to be a reply to ema up yonder.
Yea, I hear ya.
It sounds like one of the fundamental things that people are missing is that a lot of other countries are heavily invested in the U.S. From what I have read from most everyone here is that the bailout seems to be a bad idea. I can’t disagree with that, but what is the alternative? If you let the companies go under, you now have a domino effect that wouldn’t impact just the U.S., but every industrialized country in the world, and I honestly believe it would make 1929 look like a small blip on the radar. So at the moment, every American is going to pay roughly $2000, but if you take the long view, it’s probably better to pay a little now instead pay heavily in the future. And yes, it sucks; It sucks that the CEO’s are going to walk away with millions; It sucks that they have no concience and are happy to take their blood money. But the only bright side is, they won’t be able to keep taking that money after they exit.
I have no problem with the bail out as long as we actually do something that will help us instead of just being the Get out of Jail card for CEOs. Since we are technically now investing, we should see a return on this and have it stated that we are now major shareholders thus using this company which by all rights is ours now to help clean up our debt. You don’t acquire companies with the intent of losing money so we need to take steps to make money instead.
Man, I totally agree! Clean out the Board, install our OWN people, and give those who have been ousted squat. Just a nice cya then the boot.
In all my years, I never understood serverance packages. (sp?) If you sucked at your job, you get the boot. Happens to all us grunts in the proverbial salt mines and it is fair if a bit harsh. If you get laid off, enjoy the unemployment but get another job…
I want to see some accountability and I want to see some actual action take place instead of MOAR SPENDIN!!!
But yea, glad we agree eddie.
I am all for severances *when*they’re*earned*. “Gee, Ted, you’ve run this business into the ground. Here’s $30 million,” is the sort of bullshit that makes me want to implement mandatory floggings.
Of all the jobs I’ve worked and all the between times, I never once signed up for unemployment. I always just looked for another job. *shrug*
But the piggies on the Hill are squealing that the CEOs that ran these businesses aground ought not to suffer the slings and arrows of liability, culpability, and responsibility…
Eddie, that’s EXACTLY how I feel. Make them accountable and then oust ‘em.
In Japan, a businessman who runs his company in the ground is ashamed, asks for forgiveness and then commits Hari-Kari. We need to adopt more Japanese business ideas !
Stereotypes are bad for you.
I am not opposed to the bailout per se. I think it should be done with a lot more control and oversight than is being proposed. and I think any company getting bailed out should be capping severances.
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I want to know how much of that 700 billion dollars will go to golden parachutes.
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I hear McCain is against them but Carley Fiorina got 42 million for running HP into the crapper. He says she did a good job and was a successful business woman… ummmm, stocks lost like 50% of their value and 2,000 people were fired. But Carley is successful.
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Hey, at least McCain is supporting the American economy right? He told michigan voters that he always bought American “literally all his life”… except that honda, that prius and the lexus Cindy drives … I think the other 9 are American though right?
Who built Obama’s private jet ?
Good question, did he ever make claims that he only buys American? If not, does it matter really? Almost everybody who shops nowadays is dealing with a global economy. We are mocking the claim, not the product.
I believe it’s a Boeing 767.
I should probably stop reading this thread about bail outs, it is making me want to be violent and commit mayhem.
How about a nice kerfuffle?
What happened to Lehmen Brothers? Oh yea…other companies bought it out. That’s what would happen with AIG. Or it would be broken up into smaller parts and then bought individually. That is why it’s ridiculous for the government to be bailing them out…they’re a PRIVATE company, not a public one!
I think the problem is with the amount of debt owed. While other companies may want to buy into purchasing bits and pieces of AIG, I don’t think the sales would generate enough capital to head off a meltdown. I fully expect to see AIG parceled off, just not right away and certainly not until all debts owed have been satisfied.
I urge everyone to learn Mandarin and Arabic. Those are the languages of our soon to be overlords.
Sort of like when everyone was rushing to learn Japanese in the 80’s?
I dont get it. Can anyone explain please?
1929 is the year the Great Depression started.
Ahh, cool thanks. I knew the Great Depression started in the 1920’s but didn’t know the exact year.
My economic plan.
Legalize weed. Tax it like cigarettes. Use the taxes to pay into debt and ONLY into debt. In a few years time, no more debt and everyone will just chill the fu*k out.
Could it work? Eh I doubt it….
gotta be better than bailing out the rich guys. Hell, maybe we should make them buy it for everyone as a paayback for the bailout..