HUMANITY FAIL
HUMANITY FAIL
(Protesters demonstrating waterboarding)
picture: dunno source, via our lolcat builder. lol caption:
For more FAIL pictures, check out FailBlog.org.
Show Only: Democrats | Republicans | Media | Military
« Previous I am the Lorax. | The bull sh*t Next »
» 128 comments
-
Recent Comments
Kumamori on GOD HATES FAGS clueless on RAINBOWS The Amazing Rando on RAINBOWS The Amazing Rando on Mr. Yang Was Just Asked suicide_blonde on Vladurday: AT THE URINAL suicide_blonde on RAINBOWS charro on Mr. Yang Was Just Asked The Amazing Rando on RAINBOWS The Amazing Rando on RAINBOWS Brak the Asgardian Z… on RAINBOWS 
Cheezburger Network Blog
FIRST
Nobody gives a s**t if you’re first…
LOL.
Fail.
I thought this was a picture of some folks protesting water boarding… ? Honest question, am I the failure with the belief that this picture doesn’t depict a failure?
Does anyone know the story on this one?
This is in front of Sproul Hall at UC Berkeley. http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2007/11/15/18461482.php
This is in front of Sproul Hall at UC Berkeley. Click my name for more info
This was a protest in front of Sproul Hall at UC Berkeley. Google “berkeley waterboarding” and you should find some info about it
The first .. to what? Make a completely useless comment with no value or worth? Grat! Maybe you should print yourself out a certificate and hang it on the wall!
Now, if anyone wants to explain to a clueless Canuck what’s going on in this pic..
This was a protest in front of Sproul Hall at UC Berkeley. Google “berkeley waterboarding” and you should find some more info.
What a bitch. Quit crying.
so holding your breath is torture?
Ahh water boarding. The simulation of drowning. No real physical effects, unless they have heart conditions. Now psychological effects…that’s a different story. That’s not torture. Now sticking razor sharp bamboo slivers under your fingernails, that’s torture.
You are actually much more likely to die from water boarding than bamboo slivers under your nails. Unless those slivers are dipped in poison. So, I’m not sure that I get your point. Both are fear and pain inducing and probably won’t kill you.
Uhm, Americans died in ‘Nam from bamboo shoots… No one has died from waterboarding.
And did the guy in orange also conduct a demonstration of what a terrorist does to deserve such treatment?
Somehow, I doubt that message was addressed…
Categorically untrue. Not the bamboo part. I didn’t say people were not killed from bamboo shoots, I said that you are more likely to die from waterboarding. So, address the argument. There have been a great number of deaths attributed to waterboarding, especially within the Algerian war. Documentation from US waterboarding is sparse, but there have been near 100 deaths of US detainees that were suspected or proven to be homicides by US soldiers, 12 of which led to punishment of the soldiers who committed the homicides and over 600 militray investigation of soldiers. As for what the “terrorist” does to deserve such treatment, often people are detained without knowing and then later found to have no connection with terrorist cells (About 40%). Ironically, those 40% probably would have given away information if they could have, whereas the people who actually have the information probably wouldn’t because, as many people have mentioned, they’ve proven that they don’t care about their own lives as much as their cause.
references please.
I thought you were against debate on humor sites. You’ve said it enough. i guess not when they debate you though.
http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/feb2008/waterboarding.html
http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2006/04/26/usint13268.htm
http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/us_law/etn/misc/factsheet.htm#_edn3
And all of these sites also cite their sources. This argument works if people don’t check sources (see you) but not if people do.
i originally tried to lighten up the thread, but to no avail.
I appreciate the references, and i read them all. i already knew about what waterboarding was, and i agree that is is torture. what i don’t agree with is human rights orgnaizations’s “every body deserves respect as a human being” tack. the grey area of if adbul is guilty by association or just guilty because he’s directly involved is something all authorities have to determine on a case by case basis. those who despise other’s rights by declaring them worthy of death are in no way worthy of respect as human beings themselves.
this issue must be taken in context. when people with no experience or knowledge of all the facts try to criticize those who do know is when situations like this arise.
a black and white view is that waterboarding and other torture methods hurt people physically and emotionally; therefor they are wrong.
the grey area view is that the people under torture have given up their rights to basic good treatment by blowing other people up because of their religion.
it’s never black and white, there is always a grey area. don’t be naive and spout other people’s views and opinions, form your own.
I did form my own opinion based on relevant facts and history. because you disagree does not mean that my moral views are blindly made. You may disagree and because this is not a scientific debate, but a moral one that is allowed. However, if your argument is that the right to good treatment is given up by blowing other people up because of religion then a) we should not detain people without proof and torture them *just in case* and b) you must acknowledge that this country has declared war and bombed countries because they are “islamo-fascists” and many of the victims are not terrorists. By that logic, you are also giving up the right to the ethical treatment of our soldiers who have done the bombings. That’s fine. That’s your moral stance. An eye for a presumption of an eye or a possible eye.
proof is relative. i think it’s better (dangerous but better) to prevent instead of cure. we invaded iraq and all that crap to prevent the possibility of attack. we arrest numerous individuals on presumption of guilt as a precaution. it is better to prevent than cure, good sir. that’s why i support what our leaders do. they have way more solid intelligence than we ever will, and that helps them to save lives. war sucks and so do all it’s byproducts. the strong; however, must make hard decisions to survive. and survive we do. we all have to live with the results of all this afterwards. but it will fade…
“Way more solid evidence than we ever will?” LOL!!! Have you been following the issues at all?
Also, by your logic, we’d better invade Iran and North Korea and Sudan and Zimbabwe, oh, and Ireland, and Venezuela, and.. and… We’ve got to prevent the possibility of attack, after all!
And “arresting numerous individuals on presumption of guilt” is what dictatorships do to silence critics. Castro, Pinochet, Stalin, etc. I always thought we were better than that.
Invading is not a hard decision. A hard decision is deciding to look at the root causes of terrorism and addressing THOSE, instead of throwing lives and money at the problem (and getting rich off the war).
What 3ntropy just said completely fits with the view we get of american debates from France. (yep frog eater speaking – by the way they’re delicious).
Sorry, back to the point : what I meant is that when it comes to debate over the actions of american leaders, you (american people I mean) always divide in2 2 groups with arguments that can globaly be summarized as : Group 1 : “Let the Gouvernment do whatever he wants, trust him completely, people there are way smarter than us and work for the good of all” and Group 2 : “The government is only interested in helping big companies make more profit and they have no moral value and must be stopped”.
What REALLY amaze me is the persistance of the first group after decades of desillusion from their administration.
You still believe that most actions taken are for the greater good ?
Incredible…. Leaders are incredibly rarely led by humanitarian or social concerns, most are greedy or egocentrist because the path to power eliminates the holyer ones… I don’t say that on the basis of what is going on in your country, or mine or in most country but it’s just a matter of looking at history and at the structure of our western societes. It’s just a fact and you have to take it into account when judging the work of our leaders.
Moreover what is typical of the first group is this kind of statement “they have way more solid intelligence than we ever will”. What exactly do you put behind this “WE”, you may say “ME” but why WE ? You are free to believe you haven’t been given enough evidence yet that the war in Iraq had no reason to occure. But don’t act like other people haven’t got the choice to say “Yes I had enough evidence”.
You said proof was relative. Proof are not relative, it is what you do and what you consider the proof to be that is relative.
Anyway. If you are not really interrested in politics and the march of the world or feel you are not familliar enough with the insights of it, just don’t talk about. And please, don’t vote.
I am not understating that your not clever enough for voting, I am saying that wisdom is knowing where you belong and what you must do. Discerning good from bad in politic doesn’t make somebody smart or a good man. Being a plumber and being good at plumbering is wisdom. Being a plumber and trying to be good at car repairing is unproductive.
Well said. I am not sure if I agree with evey point, however I did notice the two biggest talkers cared not to acknowledge. The truth hurts.
root cause = ROP
Cool outlaw ROP!
people who were killed by bamboo shoots died when they were tied down over the shoots which then grew into and then THROUGH them (under optimal conditions, some varieties of bamboo grow at a rate of an inch per day upon sprouting). not by having the slivers jammed under their nails
O_o wow, thanks for that tidbit.
Actually, some types of raw bamboo naturally contain poison, specifically a type of cyanide, in them. http://www.inbar.int/publication/txt/INBAR_Working_Paper_No39.htm
Some species of raw bamboo contain a type of cyanide.
So do apple seeds, apricot seeds, and many other seeds. All-natural non-GMO organic cyanide.
the good ‘ol days…
Causing physical pain is torture, but driving someone insane is not torture?
Creating physical scars that Hollywood surgeons can take care of for a tidy sum is torture, but creating psychological scars that cannot be healed by any medicine is not torture?
“Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil.” -Thomas Mann
Arguably, anyone willing to kill themselves to hopefully kill others is already insane… Not to say that this isn’t torture, just that it’s hard to say that it’s driving them crazy. Maybe making them more so, I guess.
I’m charro and I approve this timely message.
Well. We won’t get info out of the people trying to KILL us by sipping tea and having a chat now will we. They aren’t afraid to die.
So your new stance is that it IS torture, but it’s justified. Ok.
think of it as “helping them suffer less by providing information on who wants to kill us” helps me sleep better at night.
seriously…this is a humor site. build a bridge and get over it.
And people who don’t. Really as long as no one at the UN finds out, we’re gold
by UN, you must mean USA, because that’s all it really is. Careful, don’t tell the right hand what the left is doing…
I agree with you. Talking does not work.
If they aren’t afraid to die, then what makes you think they’re afraid of torture?
Yeah, god forbid we scare the shit out of people who are trying kill, injure, and maim innocent civilians. I mean gosh, terrorists are such swell guys I dunno why we aren’t just giving them pop tarts, hookers, and a hug. Maybe I will write my congress man and suggest it. I’m sure thats it! No one ever thought of gaining information from those crazy jihadists by just giving them snuggles and warm fuzzies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding
“Although waterboarding does not always cause lasting physical damage, it carries the risks of extreme pain, damage to the lungs, brain damage caused by oxygen deprivation, injuries (including broken bones) due to struggling against restraints, and even death.[5] The psychological effects on victims of waterboarding can last for years after the procedure.[6]”
However, as it relates to the above comment, the real point is that it can very easily get false confessions and misleading information from the detained.
ah wikipedia. the bastion of internet truth.
Good argument. Doesn’t refute in any way, but sure makes someone else look dumb. Don’t worry though Kahn, he doesn’t beleive scientific journals either or give ANY citations.
because it’s all my opinion. being on the internet validates all my opinions as fact.
LMFAO, Wynnster!!! Love it!!
Right there with ya. I say, if the person might know how to save thousands or millions of innocent people from dying or being savagely maimed, then by all means, torture them til they talk. Fu*k worrying about their rights, they don’t care about the rights of the people they are trying to kill.
NO aggressive interrogation.
“Cake or Death?”
– Eddie Izzard
So my choice is “or death”? Well, them I’ll have the chicken, please.
Ok, as long as you don’t try to invoke the Geneva conventions when we have someone tortured and don’t get upset and outraged when our soldiers are brought up on war crime charges, fine. But I think the world will disagree that we get to have it both ways. I myself would prefer to have people who torture Americans (or anyone else) to be discouraged and punished. But hey, if you want our military to be seen as war criminals, then that’s your choice.
It is not that we do not believe that torture should be used to save lives, but that this torture is possibly being used on innocent people who have nothing to do with the plots of terrorism.
If you wish your government the right to enter a home, black bag the occupants and then torture them for information…just remember you asked for it when it comes down upon your head.
Damn, what country do you live in?
See above, 40% of detainees have been later found to have no connection to terrorist cells. I’m pretty sure that they don’t treat those guys any differently. What country does he live in? Does it matter? The point is if you allow your forces to do that to people, then you have no right to call foul if that happens her or to someone serving the US, who may be seen as terrorists to others (regardless of how we see them). I would like the right to call foul.
If 40% of the detainees have no connection, that I’d say that was a complete lack of information on our part. Our foul. But doesn’t the 4th amendment protect us from just that , unreasonable search and seizure? I sure hope so, because I thnk dc has been bending some of the rules.
If our fearless leader declares you an enemy combatant (for ANY reason), then you have no 4th amendment rights. Off to Gitmo for you. Oh, yuo wanted a lawyer? Too bad. Gitmo is not US soil, so the Constitution doesn’t apply. No amendments for you! And it can all happen in secret, without anybody else knowing! Isn’t this fun? And who’s to say you don’t have some information about some child porn-loving commie nazi gay terrorists? If the folks at Gitmo think you do, it’s to the waterboard for you! It’s not torture, after all. Just harmless frat pranks!
“child porn-loving commie nazi gay terrorists”. LOL, why does that sound like something on Maury? Today of Maury, child porn-loving commie nazi gay terrorists and the men who love them…see what I did there?
i did see. i did see what you did there.
HEY EVERYONE LET’S DEBATE THE STUPIDITY OF INTERROGATING MASS MURDERING PSYCHOPATHS ON A HUMOR WEBSITE!
Who’s not debating, but raising a royal fuss with no information? I like debate better. It’s much harder than faulting people for debating, but a lot less ignorant.
Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not know the difference.
sorry, i see your point. some people…sheesh.
No, the patriot act essentially nullified the 4th and similar amendments.
Torture or not torture, what would you do if you saw a stranger doing this to a stray/unfamiliar dog? I’d stop them, probably with much predjudice. How would you feel if this was done to dogs picked up for biting/chasing people?
If you wouldn’t want somebody you don’t know to do this to an unfamiliar dog, do you really think it is OK for an unfamiliar human, regardless of that human’s lack of ability to play well with others?
A country is judged by how it treats its enemies & prisoners. The U.S. is catching enough flak for the reasons behind the invasion of Iraq (WMD’s, 9-11, etc.).
BIG difference here – generally we kill dogs running loose and biting folks. Especially if they prove to have rabies. Last time I checked, we weren’t torturing dogs to get information out of them regarding whoo sent them to bite people.
As to not doing this to an unfamiliar dog, if the human in question is a proven biter (emphasis on ‘proven’) then I could sleep having killed that person as well as I could live with having killed a dog. At least the dog was following instinct. Or poor training. The human has the ability to make a moral choice here. And if his or her morals are directly opposed to my morals and I catch him, then he’s at my mercy. And yes, it works the same way if he catches me first.
Yes, the USA is catching flak. It was a tupid invasion. If the Iraqis had really wanted us there, we would’ve been invited. I’d love to see a return to Wilson’s isolationist policies. Hell, we can’t even keep our own citizens provided for, why does the government feel it’s our role to police the rest of the world? Waterboarding terrorists isn’t going to get our citizens the help they need. And the damned Patriot Act is fascism Big Brother-ness, plain and simple.
Much pleh.
Whatever they have done, and whatever they believe, they are still human beings. When you torture people you lose your own humanity.
I completely agree with you. And that’s notwithstanding the fact that torture usually also leads to false confessions and false information…. the kind of false info Bush used to convince us to invade Iraq in the first place.
Torture doesn’t work, except to make the torturers evil. I wonder how many of them can’t sleep at night…. I’m sure many sleep better than they should.
For the record, I support our military, but not torture. Geneva convention, anyone? If we say torture is ok, then we have no right to be up in arms when out guys are getting tortured. That would make us hypocrites.
No useful information has ever come from the use of torture and furthermore that information wouldn’t be admissible in (regular US Constitution based) court. Another reason it’s done off US soil.
Josh you are a complete idiot if you think that no useful information has ever come from the use of torture. And who cares if its admissible in court, a majority of that information is used to prevent attacks on US troops and Civilians; and FYI military actions do not require a court order (thank god). Not to mention, most of the people tortured for info aren’t subject to US civil or criminal court anyway.
I think that “ever” was not the correct word. But it is overwhelmingly true that torture does not produce actionable intelligence. Under torture, you could be forced to admit that you personally gave birth to Hitler. Anything to make the torture stop. You would admit that your friend Ahmed is planning to bomb the local supermarket with a suicide attack. Only in reality, you don’t know anyone named Ahmed, you just want the torture to stop. So the authorities go out and find someone named Ahmed and lock him up. One “terrorist” off the street, wheee! And without any of those silly activist judges and courts being involved!
…Only, Ahmed is actually a farmer, a father of 6 children, who has no stake in any terrorist attack. Congratulations, you’ve just made several lifelong enemies of America.
“There are FOUR lights!”
it is well known that people under torture will say whatever they are asked to say, tru or not. then the torture continues and the truth finally comes out. everyone breaks. everyone.
How do you know what is “truth”? And not just another layer of “stop torturing me I’ll say whatever”?
What if the person you’re torturing really doesn’t know the “truth”? How do you know that their falsehoods are false?
You could torture me all day about where Osama Bin Laden is hiding, I would come up with 50 different answers, but the fact is *I don’t know* where he is, so anything I say is useless. And again, you’ve made America-haters of me and my family.
you’ll get over it.
Oooh, that’s a convincing answer. So in other words, you’re fine with me personally torturing you with a red-hot poker, while I ask you “So, who shot JFK? Huh? ANSWER ME!!!”
Then I could waterboard you to put out the heat of the red-hot poker, while asking you “What is the airspeed of an unladen swallow? NOW you Islamofascist terrorist!!!”
Don’t worry, you’ll get over it.
lol. now you’re getting it.
Or is “truth” just another way of saying “what you want to hear”? It seems that is the case with the Bush administration and the drumbeat to invade Iraq, for example.
This is for 3ntroy & markmeier: There is a wide spectrum of grey in the space between black and white. There are 3 sides to every story: yours, mine and the real thing.
exactly. context demands all sides. not supposition that is inspired by our exagerating and fantastical media.
context will even out all mistaken assumptions.
OOH! A hidden ST:TNG reference! You ROCK! That was my favorite episode.too!
aggressive interrogation works and has saved lives, i’m sure. jack bauer is an expert at it.
OHHHH… this totally makes sense now. You get all your information from 24.
and you get all yours from cnn?
And history books and reading the Geneva convention and talking to my friends who are soldiers in the US army…. But, yes, I occasionally watch television news as well.
hey, me too. except i don’t watch the news. can’t stand the ratings whoring these days.
THESE days? TV news was once about fact? Puh-LEEZ!
This comment tanks any and all arguments you present.
A scripted television show? Your credibility is gone.
lowly grunt, i introduce you to sarcasm. sarcasm, lowly grunt.
Regardless.
Really, this is the one, not all the other comments made? Sad.
OMG. I thought for a while you were a legitimate Conservative attempting to troll in the commonly Liberal comment section here, 3ntropy!
Seriously, good work, I totally believed it for a while, and that was some absolutely amazing sarcasm! Hee!
We’re supposed to be above that. The US is supposed to stand for something. Freedom, justice, free trade, pick an ideal. Torture has no place in that.
that’s why it isn’t done here!
So as long as it’s done on a US military base that we’re leasing from the Cubans, by US Soldiers (or CIA agents), then it clearly doesn’t count as done by the US.
If torture is not done on US soil (which in my opinion is debateable — what the hell is Gitmo if not a US base?) then it doesn’t count?
If it’s done by a US citizen, then it doesn’t matter where it’s done. If you take someone out of your home and shoot them, you are still a murderer. It doesn’t matter whether it happened in your house or not. By the same token, if you take someone out of the country and torture them, you’re still a torturer.
You folks are going to have a field day with this, but I will throw it out there anyway. Sic ‘em, boys!
Leviticus 24:22 – You shall have the same law for the foreigner as for one of your own country; I AM the Lord your God.
So much for good ol’ Christian America, right? What a joke.
Interesting.
Waterboarding *is* torture. Torture is inhumane; torturers are evil; but torture is okay if not done on US soil or to US citizens. If the Chief says you’re a suspected terrorist or have terrorist links, it’s okay to violate your cilil liberties. Terrorists are worse than dogs who bite. someone is peeved that a relatively civilized debate/discussion is taking place on a humor site, even though that site is dedicated to *political* humor and debates and politics go hand-in-hand.
I think that’s the last 45 or so posts in a nutshell, and yes I am mocking ymself with this post as well as the rest of you. Please note there *is* a diffrence between mocking and making fun of someone. This is not a funny topic, never was and never should be. But none of these posts are bound to change anyone’s beliefs, and the ideal of being able to hold an opinion even if contrary to others’ *and* being able to express is is one that I hold dear. I think even out founding fathers would agree on that point even if our current leader foesn’t seem to.
Are you *sure* that isn’t a fraternity initiation? I’m pretty sure they do something like that at fraternities.
Besides, Islamists do not believe in civil rights in the first place. They don’t believe in civil rights for themselves or for others. They are very clear on this matter in every country they inhabit. It makes to difference to them. Why should we be concerned with their alleged civil rights if they don’t believe in civil rights?
If this is the *worst* thing that happens to them, and nobody is maimed or killed in the process, then they are pikers compared to the Islamists themselves. We’ve seen the videos. We’ve seen the news stories. We’ve seen Saddam’s home movies. Where is the outrage against Islamist real actual torture? Why are y’all getting your panties in a twist over alleged “torture” which amounts to, at best, fraternity hazing?
You’re saying that the death of dozens if not hundreds of people is preferable to making an Islamist terrorist uncomfortable? If we don’t do *something* to defend ourselves from these monsters, they will destroy us.
You can stand on your high horse on your ivory tower, but the rest of us will have to suffer for your myopia to reality.
Oh so you can torture people as long as it’s only a little bit of torture! I get it now!! Basically you’re saying, “Well, they do it more!” That’s a pretty lame excuse.
Firstly: people have died in “frat pranks”. They are illegal on most college campuses. Just because it’s “for fun” doesn’t mean it can’t hurt someone.
Secondly: have you ever been in a near-drowning accident? It is not a “little thing” to almost drown, it’s one of the most frightening things that can happen to a person. I was eight when it happened to me, and I still have nightmares and I’m in my twenties. And no one did that to me, I just fell. Imagine how much worse it’d be if someone had done that deliberately.
It’s torture, and as I’ve said WE are supposed to be above that. Just because your enemy uses a tactic does not make it all right. How are we better than them if we use the same methods? How are we even different?
Thing is, many of these people are NOT Islamists, but people who are sold out by desperate individuals taking bribes to rat out whoever they think might hold information. Someone might not like you, need to make a quick buck from Uncle Sam, and point to you saying you’re a terrorist. TA DA now you get a bit of waterboarding, and maybe you’re so pissed you become a terrorist. Innocent people going through hell to get information which may or may not be accurate, and possibly making new enemies in the process, is awesome.
By the by, many fraternities are shut down or disciplined for hazing.
i hope everyone here knows that historically, governments and militaries have never operated under values, morals, and ethics that the common population practices.
we the people will always base decisions on emaotion and saving one or another person, while the government and military will “kill the one to save the millions.”
Or, rather, “kill the millions to save our power.”
Let me ask one question. I am former us military- out because I was injured. If your friends lives were on the line, your family. People who loved you and trusted you to watch their backs and keep them safe- what would you do to protect them? Anything and everything. ”Kill one to save millions”. What if it was just ”Kill one to save your son”. or ”Kill one to save your wife”. Yeah, torture is bad. But if it saves one innocent life, it was worth it.
I don’t know. I’ve never been in that situation, and I’m sorry if you think I’m putting you down if you’ve had to make a choice like that. I’m not.
I just think there has to be another way, one that doesn’t make us monsters. Surely there are other ways to get information? It can’t always be “torture this man or let thousands die”.
that’s what separates us from the monsters. we do it because lives are at stake, while the monsters do it for fun or to make a point. thank you for your service ice_army.
Don’t you think whoever you are calling a monster is using the same stupid rationalization? How incredibly low can you sink to think that a human being could become a suicide bomber out of “fun” or “to make a point”. All the ‘terrorists’ are just as convinced of their moral cause as you are.
Life is simple: Either human rights are absolute or they are not. If torture is legitimate to reach your goals, then flying a plane into a building to ‘free your country from infidels’ is, too. Do not get me wrong, I oppose either.
I pity you, because you are a thoroughly amoral person. Everything you say can be summarized in 7 words: If I do it, it is OK.
you’re thinking in black and white again. pity away, ipg, i’m comfortable in my beliefs and try not to judge others. you however; chose to judge me because i don’t match your naive and fantastical ideals that people are inherently good and should just hold hands with each other and sing kumbaya.
i believe in the absolute of human rights inherent, but when one rejects others’ then he or she loses their rights to be treated humanely. that’s my stance.
But when does a person lose their RESPONSIBILITY to act humanely?
Very true -
Problem is that people that are being tortured often have done nothing violating other’s rights. This is why we have a legal system to try to pin down the truth of a matter on whether someone denied someone else their rights before we deny theirs in return.
Do Away With The Legal System!!!! Make It Even Across The Board!
RAISE YOUR HANDS AND SAY AMEN!! =P
Thank you for serving our country. I do have a question for you though. If one of your friends was killed to prevent a bombing with civilian causalities, is that worth it? Those people would have the same reasoning… They could be sacrificing one stranger to save their family or community. As much as you would like to dehumanize others to justify torture, even with no proof, people around the world have similar motives. Or is “innocence” dependent on being American too, just like torture is only justified if you’re American. I hope you never have to find out if you would feel the same way if your friend was the one tortured or killed to prevent civilian casualties, then you can keep your cognitive dissonance.
Tom, my fiance was killed in iraq, trying to save some of his buddy’s from dying. He didn’t have to expose himself to fire- he was safe where he was. But instead of staying safe, he chose to help them. In doing so, he lost his life, and I lost my love- but if he hadn’t, more would have died. I love him for his sacrafice. He’s not the only one to do so. Look up the newest medal of honor winner- he was 19, and threw himself on a grenade, saving the other members of his platoon. My brother was on patrol. searching for roadside bombs- bombs that kill innocent civilian iraqis- when he ran over a bomb. He survived, another member of his team didn’t. Would I sacrafice myself to save innocent civilians? Yes. Can you honestly say you wouldn’t?
We all know IPG wouldn’t…. No survival instinct.
Thank you, Ice, for your service, and I honor your fiance’s sacrifice. You and your fiance volunteered to serve your country while we are here going to the mall and playing on the internet. Your valor and service are noteworthy and honorable. Thank you, ma’am.
“Greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.”
There are other words and examples of Jesus of Nazareth that fit this situation as well, though. When someone takes up the weapons of inhumanity, it is not only their enemies that suffer. Israel of the 1st century CE sought to defeat the Roman Empire through war and terrorism. Jesus modeled a different path, the path of self-sacrificial love. Israel rejected his path, and sought freedom through war. History records the rest.
The West will not defeat radical Islam with guns, ladies and gentlemen. It will not happen. “The tighter you squeeze your fist, Tarkin, the more star systems slip through your fingers.”
The West must turn from decadence and violence, and embrace the path of self-sacrificial love. Only this will prevent our doom.
FTW
Everybody does what they do to make a point. I don’t care if it’s making a costume for Halloween or nneutering stray animals to reduce the feral pet population or streaking naked through campus or toruting prisoners for information. Philosphers have debated the many vs the few for ages, and as long as there are more than two people alive there will never be an agreement on all fromts.
Bamboo splinters, waterboarding and fraternity hazing – all cruel, all damaging, all done in secret to make a point. I don’t like it, but I’m not the one making the decisions. Unfortunately, until we come up with something a little more foolproof than “truth serum” or “Medium” I don’t see anything that will change anytime soon. Polygraphs are pretty reliable and for the most pary pretty humane. The problem there is, while you can treat folks nicely, if they really believe in what they say, then they’ll even fool the polygraph. And it’s pretty tough to ask sigifican yes-no questions to get reliable info regarding terrorism.
I’m just glad I’m not raising children today. The grey areas seem to be getting broader and broader, and morality becomes a very sticky situation no matter who’s doing the justifications.
forget the bulls**t “24″ scenarios of Jack Bauer tuning up some zealot ’til he gives up the info. Physically coercive interrogation (torture) is generally unreliable because the person on the receiving end either knows little to nothing of value but will tell you whatever it is they *think* you want to hear in order to make the pain stop and a dedicated believer in whatever cause will generally give you what sounds like good info but will either give it too late or will have lied through his teeth to make you look the fool…and usually they’ll do it under the pretense of being cooperative
If only we could get an entire generation of young men living under oppressive religious law in select middle eastern countries to have sex on a consistent basis with their female cohorts, we could probably stop suicide bombing. Think about how sexually frustrated these poor, manipulated souls must be if one of the selling points to blowing themselves up in the name of Allah and hatred is that they will get tons of punani in heaven
dude, that’s the best point made all day. bravo.
Indeed, I must agree with this. (clap clap)
The measures required to prevent the death of innocence and the preservation of freedom is far beyond water boarding I’m afraid. It’s so funny how miserable people make a topic just by running it into the ground ‘water boarding ZOMG!!!!1!!1!’ ‘that juth tho thavage..’ ‘my goth how could people do thath to eeth other… Fuktards DEPORT!
You know, if we can come up with a “torture” tactic so humane that every college student with a performance art major can reenact it, then thats a win. For “Humanity Fail” ask McCain about his time as a guest in Vietnam.
Using internet is simple as hell. But I can tell y ou right now, it can be very hard, if you are the first time user.
So, first thing I suggest – open the Explorer, and type in the address you like.
You’ll get there really fast, it depends on your connection speed.
Good luck.
Abh charge
Boss effects pedals official website
Gift huntington shop virginia west
Protecting copyright
Copyright internet hunt by cindy ohora
Napoleon dynamite voicemails
Norman hyde
Magic mushroom pics
September 1
Recipe for feeding a crowd
Chile northern
Turkey plates
Andromeda galaxy photograph
White oak plantation louisiana
Lewisville lots sale texas
Almost saturday night lyrics
Security gates for windows
Saks inc split
Sun cove realty inc
Georgia high school varsity sports vent
After gold neil rush young
Colonial forge wrestling
Flippers gymnastics phillipsburg nj
Poor workplace communication
Code enough not world
Tubing chrome
Charity shield 2004
The goebbels experiment
Barrier great oil reef spill
Snake oil guitar strings
Budget car dealership aurora
Boiler feed water cost
Installing garbage disposal double sink
Raiden japanese mythology
Taylor rentals naples
Picture of garden snake
Melody tv hits
Aerial map townsville
Agent elapsed lotus script time
Dans gymnastics videos
Live song tamil video
False negative blood pregnancy test
The pleasant company
Mony python and the holy grail
Collar girl popping
Colour photo printers
You all look the same to me archive
Cage diving with great white sharks
Dallas direction driving palestine texas
Japanese weekend maternity dress
Brain experiment split
Landscaping plant tropical
Coal miner wages
Amc theaters at orange park jacksonville fl
Air conditioner contained self
Abc radio broadcast
Nicolas ciccone tablature
Serge lang linear algebra
Ebook format conversion
Cds dvd used
Chef wanted
Business proposal outline
Live tamil tv channels
Pure bred beagle
Gymnastics high photo school
The battle of lexington concord 1775
How to apply hair extension with glue
Emperatriz hotel madrid
Norton antivirus 2005 activation key
Turned furniture legs
Epa registered fungicides
Avic car dvd gps mp3 n2 navigation pioneer
Wrestling tournament bracket software
Holidays september
Half staff today
Something told the wild geese by rachel field
Net 20 developer
New hampshire department of correction
7105t blackberry unlock
Dr maker match phil
Pink floyd sign of life
Hydraulic tubing fittings
Standard screen resolution
Rush rare coins
Icemans jaguar theme
Members housewife1on1 com members
Combate naval de iquique
Chrome center caps
Buy ski jackets
Closed cold engine loop open sensor starting
Comedy in muslim review world
Automated controls
Dutch landscape painters
Sony laptop service manuals
Thumb
Morpheus ultra activation code
Santa fe hyundai 2004 gls
Workers compensation lawyer newark
6030 headset nokia
Descendants slave
Cannon n nick present wild
Rental house san luis obispo
Li
Sidebar_bckg
Mitchells steakhouse columbus
1996 honda accord engine
Notre dame basketball rosters
Chief current naval operations
The side effects of marijuana
Farmland leasing
Distributor frozen meat
Securities fraud definition
Dealer naples porsche
Aquaculture cliff red wi
Sean gallagher and cpuc
Caucus pride union
Print outsourcing
I hold my breath and
Index
Renoir bathers with crab
Tamil manam
Audi tail light lens
Barrel tile roof
Fever grade low surgery
Low carb oatmeal recipes
1 percent of anything drama
Napoleon dynamite kj52 download
Swimsuit for fat woman
Australia in news perth
Cgi open site variable
Menu_bckg
California chef jobs
Bloomington club indiana night
Umd capacity
Folk jamaican music
Faith free keep solo tablature
Picture
Oscar best film winners
Ftx bookstore
2002 by copyright gr nuke php
Muy grande ranch
Ruby bridges video
Ipod mini face plates
Society of humane friends
Dicls sporting goods
Medical condition chronic
Agri fab broadcast spreader
Midnight lightning video
American universities in london
Lyrics for that girl by lindsay lohan
Barry guide knowhere
Brio portal
Global car locator
Oyster cove boat sales
Galaxy angel 2 stroke crm
Outback steakhouse thousand oaks
New neil young
Filtered name something thats
Copy job operator xerox
Battery conditioner laptop
Bb4win plugin
Fairfield illinois newspaper
Mardi gras girl
Charleston district historic hotel in sc
Corporate art buyer
Parts jaguar
Iron chef result
Ball feeding pythons
Toyota lexus uk
Importance of agriculture in india
Index
Roof repair contractors
Formal gown long
Luis luna epa
Rhythmic gymnastics video
Mail settings in outlook express
Isotopes of the same element have
Louden nelson
Not another teen movie cast crew
Am i tell them who
Bottom bracket length
Faith hope charity symbol
Head_bckg
Humane society green bay wisconsin
Help lose short steps weight
Collins eyes look phil through
Circus circus casino reno
Rancho solano country club
Murray hatchery
Jeep cherokee workshop manuals
Fulbright proposal sample
Put your hands on lyrics reef
Thumb
98 activation key window
Colored bulb covers
Cheap trick and saturday night live and dvdr
Head_bckg
Barry manilow tickets in vegas
Keisha castle hughes gallery
Bad boss in louisville
Oscar wilde play
Check credit fax loan no no no payday teletrack
Quality essential oils
Big audio dynamite ii lyrics
Casa de campo resort dominican republic
Metropolitan veterinary hospital akron oh
Chronic pain pain management contract
Malcolm x biography alex haley
Emerald waters day spa
Playa del carmen quintana roo
Lots edmonton
Boot bullhide snake
Sporting goods outlet store
Lets get free lyrics
Wichita police lawsuit
Harbortown terrace perth amboy
Cheerleading forum nj
Cross dressing bridal
Yoga ebook
Splitter
Carousel farms delaware
Home hudson river
East lansing michigan public schools
Breakfast carb cereal low
Creation myth essay
Li
Cliff note pimpernel scarlet
Ca copyright inc internet myers
John hunter hospital newcastle australia
Dust storm images
Hello, I’m new here
I love this forum, it was so great!
skarkarinox from Elvas, Portugal
all torture is a fail.
You’re right, killing them immediately is much more humane.
The last guy I killed in Iraq had run away from a raid early one morning. We tried chasing him, but he had a good head start. We cornered him in a ditch, tried to coax him out with harassing fires. He did not want to surrender so I blew him up with 30mm cannon fire while he curled up like a little bitch. The other two we killed that morning were also wanted terrorists. I slept well that night knowing I had done my part.
Does this make me a monster? No, I am one of those “rough men” alluded to by that famous English pacifist- George Orwell. Soldiers are trained to kill the enemy using whatever means necessary- rocks, sticks, bombs, incendiaries, cannons, bayonet, bare-hands, etc. So you think subjecting three committed terrorists to a little psychological scarring causes us to lose our humanity? Ever watched a beheading video? Listen to the screams. Then ask yourself if we are the monsters.
I prefer to think we are the guys that make the boogey-man check under his bed before he goes to sleep.